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[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:36 PM, December 20th (Friday)]

I feel more damage was done - it was at times far more cruel than if it was spoken person to person

These things are the ones that really get to your H now. I think if you really want to help your H then this part is the part that needs to be addressed.

What kinds of conversations have you had focused on this topic. Are there ways where you feel like you can show him that you don't feel this way today ?

Words, at this point, aren't going to work.

Can you at least start a comparison list between then and now ? At least writing them down then versus now will help you organize them.

I will tell you that most H need to feel respected by their Ws in order to feel anything deeper than that. Show him you respect him (versus tell him). It will go a long way towards freeing hid emotional head space up to focus on other things.

Maise:

I told her that doing something for yourself looks different. You wouldn't be practicing honesty because it's what you're told to do, you'd be doing it because YOU value YOURSELF as an honest person. In order to get there you have to sit, process, analyze, and think about how you feel about being a liar, and then how you feel about other liars, and how lying impacts the relationships around you...see the patterns that lying creates in your own life, and in how you view yourself. Ask yourself if being dishonest is something that makes you proud of yourself? If not, why not be someone that makes YOU proud? Have standards of yourself that make you value yourself. If honesty is something that means something and makes you proud of yourself, make that commitment to yourself. Hold yourself accountable when you aren’t honest. Not for others, for what it means to YOU. For how you feel about YOU being honest vs being a liar. THEN you're practicing honesty for the right reasons...for your own value of self. Not for others to value you. Granted in turn others do tend to value your honesty too, but that's not why you do it. And then of course take this method and apply it to everything else in your person. If you find times that you sit with your own actions and feel disappointed or some type of way about how you behave, then think about it, process it again...do it for you. Think about how YOU feel about yourself, and who you want to be to yourself. This is how you build esteem, and a sense of self.

You are right, doing something for yourself does look very different, for me right now, anything 'for me' looks selfish because I am not giving back what I have taken away. I see, though where you are coming from, when you are true and authentic with yourself, it is felt and seen by others, in return as you hold yourself to those new standards, brutal honesty, and you are able to hold your head up, rebuilding your self-esteem, self-worth and value to others without looking for external validation, because 'you' know it.

I need to be able to accept who I am first, the dishonest/cheating parts of me, face them somehow, before I can begin to think of holding up my head, this is where I am stuck. Being honest now because I 'have to' is meaningless, being honest because I choose to, because it is the morally right thing to do, THAT means something to me. That means I am given back some of what I have taken away.

Maise, you were very clear and concise for someone who didn't have their coffee...as you can see, I didn't have enough...at the time of this edit, I have topped up my tanks...

Seriously, I want to thank you for the advice and the road map. You have described how I think, react and my immaturity exactly.

This is what I needed to hear to correct, among other things...

[This message edited by Need2Do at 8:35 PM, December 20th (Friday)]

Numb&Dumb:

These things are the ones that really get to your H now. I think if you really want to help your H then this part is the part that needs to be addressed.

I had projected everything I felt about & saw within myself onto him: he was abusive (I was abusive), he was cold (I was cold), he didn't love me (I hated him), he was controlling (I was controlling), you see? Then I would flip, and love him to death...I was all over the place. Did I ever really see him that way in our relationship? No, that isn't who he is, not at his core.

How do you suggest I offset these negative? I have educated myself with his 'love language' - words of affirmations, but that really feels off, not authentic to me. I do use words to describe the man I see infront of me now, is that what you mean?

What kinds of conversations have you had focused on this topic. Are there ways where you feel like you can show him that you don't feel this way today ?

Our conversations, in the beginning, were focused around the sexual aspect of the affair, what I did to initiate the encounters, how I set them up, how often, and the 'what' I did and didn't do. Some conversations were about my IC sessions that I had recorded, and about articles he found, many were about him trying to articulate and makes sense of what he was feeling.

Words, at this point, aren't going to work

.

I understand, words hold no value, its what I do.

Can you at least start a comparison list between then and now ? At least writing them down then versus now will help you organize them.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here, can you explain it a little please?

I will tell you that most H need to feel respected by their Ws in order to feel anything deeper than that. Show him you respect him (versus tell him). It will go a long way towards freeing hid emotional head space up to focus on other things

The affair destroyed what little respect he had held for me.

When we talk, it doesn't matter what the conversation is about, when he has the floor, I won't interrupt, unless I absolutely have to, I acknowledge what he says, and validate where I can. I show my respect for the pain I have put him by doing what needs to be done to be his safe partner, or so I thought.

Thank you Becca70

Mostly that if you thought of him in one way then. What do you see about him now. You can draw the comparisons between how you viewed him then versus now. Sometimes it is hard to show it without words. Consistency is your friend.

When we talk, it doesn't matter what the conversation is about, when he has the floor, I won't interrupt, unless I absolutely have to, I acknowledge what he says, and validate where I can. I show my respect for the pain I have put him by doing what needs to be done to be his safe partner, or so I thought.

This to me reads a lot closer to obsequiousness or fear than it does respect. I see a lot of fear in those words. Compliance to his wishes. In "I was bad," kind of context just serves to remind him why you are acting that way. It may be genuine contrition, but it also feel very forced to him. It makes him feel worse to see you walking around on egg shells. He gets nothing from that. Trust me. BTDT.

Respect is a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

What do you admire about him ? What does he do better than anyone else you know ? What has he accomplished that her is very proud of ?

Use his love language show him that you respect him in those ways. Everybody has something they are really good at. Use that to build him up in little ways. I know it is cliche, but feed his ego about things that you see him do really well. Don't make things up or go overboard either. Let it come naturally as you notice things. Those are the moments that will help both of you the most.

What next? Ask yourself questions about it. Are you guilty of this? Should you feel ashamed of it? What can you learn from it? How can you change what caused it so you don't repeat it again. Why did you do it? Just because you aren't proud of who you became doesn't mean you can't become better or someone to be proud of. You have to own and accept truths that were the reality at the time. Your journal. Those were your truths at the time. No matter how cruel. You have to own and accept that. Admit it to yourself and to him. Dissect how much of it was written from unhealthy expectations and perceptions. From unrealistic needs. For example, it is normal to want your spouses attention. It isn't normal to want it 100% of the time. It isn't healthy or realistic to choose cheating (a cruel and self destructive act) to feed that need. Making what might have been even a normal level, unhealthy because the way to get it was not normal and the need so great to do something that destructive.

Maise:

I can say, almost word for word what your wife has said, I react exactly the same way when my husband brings up his triggers, his hurt, or anger over my affair, and when I try to explain my 'affair' journal that he read, I regress, I go into the self pity mode, 'how I don't get it right' mode and start feeling bad because I caused this and simply abandon him again, while I am stuck in my head berating myself.

Like you, my husband says he is exhausted, angry and frustrated with my reactions and responses so far. He has distanced himself further for his own protection and to promote his own healing, because I am not creating an environment to help him heal (these are his words). I am not talking about the affair enough and I need to do this for his healing, and to earn some integrity and respect for myself.

I am not talking about the affair enough and I need to do this for his healing, and to earn some integrity and respect for myself.

Maybe you are not talking about what is wrong with you enough to him, showing your vulnerability.

Check out this article by MM. It hits the nail on the head!

Great...I married an adolescent.

I just want to say a heart felt THANK YOU, to all that have replied.