SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He hasnt wanted to change things up at all. Hes content having the wife and occasional sex at home while acting out like a child online. Before it was in person, flirting and getting his ego kibbles. I guess I should just be happy he hasnt had any in person romps in the hay in the last few years...I cant honestly say when the fourth affair took place but I do believe it was before he changed jobs so, 5 years ago?

Everything since then has been online antics. Oh and porn.

I'm not sure if your actions fit the bill or not, maybe so

Fit the bill for what exactly? Childish? Crazy? Lol pointless and futile? Probably all.

If you can keep the vomit down, like some 18-20 year old guy(s) posts too.

Might as well have as much fun as you can. Do it in bed next to him.

Can you force a flush on your face, or a little thigh rubbing under the covers? (not his thighs), or use it like the posts make you want to "get off" with him? Lots of options here.

Contain the vomit is very correct. Seems beneath me to do this.

Most nights I cant sleep and stay up on my phone. Pretty sure he thinks I'm cheating on him. Hes made comments and smart ass remarks to that effect. No, it's just that while he lays there snoring contently I'm awake with the pain he caused. Then again sometimes it's just the OCD in me coming out and I'll play solitaire over and over until I get the right score and time lol.

I meant fits the bill for changing things up. As in one or the other of you need to do something different or nothing will change. His doing that in the near future looks like a no go.

So, maybe you becoming a roommate accomplishes that, time will tell I guess. I'm guessing no sex for you beats annoying sex. He might have gotten used to it, appears you haven't. (I don't blame you)

Going roommate almost seems passive aggressive. I'm not positive, truthfully. I think most long term marriages go through that stage. That makes me question the effectiveness.

I hesitate to say go for D, but you said you were going to announce your intentions to move to roommate status. I might advise to lay out an incremental series of steps: 1)roommates, 2) separate rooms, 3) separation. You figure out the exact things and sequence and timing. I'd key the timing just to your own feelings/frustration level rather than putting artificial dates on it.

Maybe draw up w/ an attorney a separation agreement as an incremental step before an actual D, shows your level of seriousness and maybe jolts him awake.

As far as vomit worthy liking of posts and such, I suggest that for your entertainment/his annoyance.

I personally can say and do many things in jest that I would never do seriously and I make the suggestion for you to do it in that vein, not that you take up a new avocation.

Sorry you're in this place still.

It was important for me to have time away from him. He knew I was pissed off and i was keeping my distance. Of course for him this means bug me. Try to be all sweet and loving etc. Eventually snapped at him that I was angry because of what he was doing and I wanted him to leave me alone.

Didnt work. I went outside, he came outside to "do some work "...

I give him a B12 injection every week. He asked me to do it before I got to the point of wanting to hurt him. Told him I'd never intentionally hurt him, that's his thing. It does require some restraint though lol.

Is your online life a true reflection of who you really are?

From what I have seen, I think most people are pretty much what they do on social media and reflected in their general online activity.

I think it's like the question, is the cheating and lying that you hide a true reflection of who you are........pretty much, yep.

Is your profile correct? The d-day for OW2 was late 2010?

10 years later you two interact like high-school lovers in a spat…

Honestly – is the pattern of your interaction and communications the way you want it to be? Do you think copying his immature actions will make him change?

Maybe try threatening to hold your breath until he eats his greens…

This isn’t working. This is not what a marriage should be.

Have you two gone to MC with the goal of improving the marriage rather than the goal of winning the argument?

Seriously! I have heard MC’s state that this is one of the bigger problems they deal with: One or both spouses agree to MC to win an argument, rather than to learn better communications and better listening.

I think it could be a break-through moment for you when you can tell your husband that this isn’t working. That the unresolved issues as so immense and that the pattern of interaction and communications between the two of you is stuck in a rut that isn’t capable of solving the issues. That a last-ditch effort might be to seek MC where you both commit to improving and changing your interactions.

I'm just trying to get the kids ready for school....a bit crazy this morning. I'll respond more after they are gone.

But this I wanted to address:

Is your profile correct? The d-day for OW2 was late 2010?

Yes its correct. Around this time, October that I found out. And then they continued at least into the next year.

I didnt find out about ows 3 and 4 until after we had moved and he changed jobs.

MC and ice for both was done. I'll explain why that all went to shit when I come back

Ow1 I discovered an email from wh to her. Not much detail but enough to know something was going on. He brushed it off told me I was seeing nothing etc.

Between ow1 and ow2 (2 year span) he was online looking for NSA sex. I found one of his profiles and that's when I created a fake email pictures etc and set him up. Showed up at the meeting place instead of the woman he thought was coming. Dd was probably around one. I told him then I was fine with D and he could sign off his rights as a father if being a dad and husband was just to much for him. Totally gave him an out. He insisted we stay together and it would never happen again...

I hadn't found SI yet.

Things seemed ok. Then dday2 (ow2) happened. DS was only 3 months old. I insisted on MC. Wh hated mc as the counselor confirmed that affairs are wrong and wh didn't like being told that. Wh and ow2 continued affair underground through our MC and into the next year.

I believe I found out February or March 2011. Joined here May. Stopped MC as it just didnt prove helpful.

His mother and sister knew about ow2. We lived with his family and that all went to shit. Moved out and rented. Then bought this place in 2014. All the while he was still doing online stuff. Making personal ads or responding to them. I have no hard proof he ever met anyone.

After moving here he lost his job where the affairs took place. He did IC for a bit but his councilor told me that demanding transparency, wanting him to be accountable for his time, and not being over his affairs by now was unfair to him and just to much for him to cope with.

I demanded he quit seeing her and since he could sweet talk any vagina I insisted he find a male IC. He never did.

I did IC here at the house for depression. That went on for a long time but she felt that once I wasnt suicidal she wasnt needed. The infidelity stuff I juat needed to get over.

IC can really do more damage than good...

Through all of this he never quit going online, watching porn etc. He kept his phone locked for a long time until I had enough and demanded he keep it unlocked or I was done. I can look at his phone whenever I want but he deletes stuff all the time. He also found my VAR that I used.

I think it could be a break-through moment for you when you can tell your husband that this isn’t working. That the unresolved issues as so immense and that the pattern of interaction and communications between the two of you is stuck in a rut that isn’t capable of solving the issues. That a last-ditch effort might be to seek MC where you both commit to improving and changing your interactions.

I've always said our biggest problem is communication. MC now would probably help that but with covid and lack of funds it's not going to happen right away. Also while I know we need help to communicate I believe HE must start doing some work on his own whether coming here or going to IC to figure out why he needs these ego kibbles so badly and is perfectly ok to do that stuff knowing it hurts me.

He always texts me on his breaks. Just did. I told him I didnt want to butt into his time drooling over sexy chicks on facebook and that I have work to do so he didnt have to message me at all. He said liking that page was a mistake, he thought it was a jokes page. I totally called him out on that. The page is all photos of these young twins, hardly dressed....AND on top of that I pointed out that hes got more adult content pages of explicit woman than he has Godzilla AND reptile pages combined.

He said fine he would get rid of the pages.

I told him he needs to figure out what's so broken within himself that he needs to be looking at that stuff knowing it hurts me and after i have asked him to stop. That he needs to fix himself and then work on us before I get to the point of just being done with him.

Now I have never done this childish stuff before. I was just angry and wanted him to see that two can play at that game. I saw him squirm. It was amusing. I already said I that I know that doing this wouldn't make him stop. It was a brief amusement for me, that's all

Bigger, you wrote this on another thread about knowing all the details. I dont know if I'll get in trouble for referencing it but I have this problem. Theres gaps. Times I cant remember or timelines, proof I've lost or he deleted. I didnt know about ows 3 and 4 until more recently. Part of me wishes I could just see his memories to know everything so I could move forward. But your quote is right. He cheated. Doesnt matter hoe many times or with who. He cheated and that's all I need to know. I need to work on my healing even without the details. I think I have been stuck on that. So thankyou for that.

Once I decided that I could move on personally without that knowledge somehow recovery became easier.

So another boundary I set has been crossed; no deleting stuff. And he wont acknowledge anything.

So he violated yet another boundary. What consequences are there for these types of actions? Because you can talk about your boundaries all day, but if you aren't willing to back it up with actual consequence, then he really has no impetus whatsoever to respect them.

I told him he needs to figure out what's so broken within himself that he needs to be looking at that stuff knowing it hurts me and after i have asked him to stop. That he needs to fix himself and then work on us before I get to the point of just being done with him.

I agree with all of this - he DOES need to get his shit together. But sadly, we can't make them do that. So IMHO you need to decide if settling for a tit-for-tat 'roommate' marriage is what you're okay with. He likely will not change, so what you've had is more than likely what you get from here on out. Is that enough for you?

I know for me it was a deflection looking at all of his shit. Looking at why he did what he did and how he felt and what he wanted. The bigger and entirely more relevant question was why the fuck was I putting up with that kind of disrespect? Once my thinking started to shift to looking at ME, and looking at what I wanted and needed... it was scary as fuck but also helped me get some clarity. Because he was never going to be capable of being the husband I wanted/needed/deserved. For me? Maintaining the status quo just wasn't worth it. Just my 0.02.

So IMHO you need to decide if settling for a tit-for-tat 'roommate' marriage is what you're okay with. He likely will not change, so what you've had is more than likely what you get from here on out. Is that enough for you?

For me yes. As long as its solely a roommate relationship then yes I AM ok with that. Not the tit for tat part. Again it was a bit of fun for my own amusement.

I do not want anymore ILY's or affection from him.

It's not genuine. It's a show.

And I am at the "I care for him but no longer In Love with him" stage.

So if he wants to remain together in this sense and is ok with no physical contact then so am I.

I know he will still insist in sex. We are of course married but that needs to be discussed in detail. Not as lovers but as friends with benefits, with protection and screening for STDs first.

Cheating is still unacceptable and will be met with full in house separation. For that matter he can move into the trailer.

The bigger and entirely more relevant question was why the fuck was I putting up with that kind of disrespect? Once my thinking started to shift to looking at ME, and looking at what I wanted and needed... it was scary as fuck but also helped me get some clarity. Because he was never going to be capable of being the husband I wanted/needed/deserved. For me? Maintaining the status quo just wasn't worth it. Just my 0.02.

The deflecting is a good point

However I've said it and I'll say it again.

I value what I have more (time with kids and a family inherited farm) more than I miss anything in my marriage with wh.

The moment he stepped outside of our marriage he stopped being the husband I needed, wanted and deserved. Nothing now can change that.

I wanted a partner I could call friend and lover who I could grow old with with trust and love and fidelity. He is no longer THAT man.

But hes ok as a roommate and father. Hes ok as a partner in our mutual hobbies.

The constant discovery of more betrayal from who I consider my husband/lover is what's keeping me stuck in depression. No longer having any expectation of him playing that role frees me from any hurt.

Quick question:

Define cheating.

Wh messaged me at break. He is upset that I am mad about him looking at those pages and insists he isnt cheating.

He doesnt see what is wrong with him looking at other woman.

Am I wrong to be upset?

Am I wrong to not approve of him messaging old female co workers who he may have slept with?

I know looking isnt a crime but for a man who has had multiple PAs EAs and has spent more time online looking for NSA sex, how am I supposed to react???

If you have to explain to him why it's inappropriate for him to be doing this, I don't know what to tell you. This is one of those obvious things that anyone with 5 or 6 functioning brain cells should be able to figure out. So either he is actually really dumb, pretending he doesn't understand because he wants you to believe that he's dumb, treating you like his mommy not letting him have fun, or he is so devoid of empathy that he cannot actually process this.

None of that bodes well for him as a spouse. If he's to be just a roommate from here on out, do you even care if he does this dumb stuff?

I dont think hes dumb. He tried to make me think he doesnt k ow hoe to do things on his own but I know he CAN do it.

Yes he wants a mommy figure. His main AP was a mommy figure to him.

He does lack empathy. Or appears so. He is hard to read as hes very guarded about his emotions minus anger. Even that he keeps bottled up.

None of that bodes well for him as a spouse. If he's to be just a roommate from here on out, do you even care if he does this dumb stuff?

No. It wont matter. Once we get to a place of roommate only relationship I can get to a point of indifference and no longer see him as a lover or partner or husband. Husband on paper only. Shit I haven't bothered to wear my wedding ring in years. I need him on board with this though. I cannot keep having him be all nice and sweet and loving for a few months while behind my back drooling over other woman. He totally sucks me back in and that's on me.

Sure I'm not devoid of emotion. I would love to have an actual partner, lover, friend etc. but I do not. Its thr acceptance part of grieving the loss of my marriage I need to get through.

Quick question:

Define cheating.

IMHO cheating is whatever YOU say it is (within reason of course). He doesn't get to say what you are allowed to be upset about.

I need him on board with this though. I cannot keep having him be all nice and sweet and loving for a few months while behind my back drooling over other woman.

I completely understand this and commiserate. But this is kind of what I was driving at earlier. If he's gonna be 'just a roommate', then you really shouldn't be holding him to husband expectations anymore. It seems to me like you are trying to say he's just a roommate/FWB, but that he still has to act like your spouse, and that's just not something that will work for you in the long-term I don't think.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 2:59 PM, September 28th (Monday)]

It seems to me like you are trying to say he's just a roommate/FWB, but that he still has to act like your spouse, and that's just not something that will work for you in the long-term I don't think.

I cant see him as a roommate of he sees me as his wife. Does that make sense?

He still wants to hug and kiss and say I love you when I just want him to be the roommate hes good at being because he sucks at being a husband.

He can drool over all the woman he wants once he accepts that hes only my husband on paper.

If he wants the "friends with benefits" then yes I demand he keep his dick in his pants for MY health only. I can have sex without emotion. It's not as satisfying but at this point I could totally go without and not give a rats ass.

Again that part needs to be discussed. If he cant accept this new relationship than HE can file for D and find the whore of his dreams. Or just bounce from one to another.

I don't see how this works, DragnHeart. Not if you're cohabiting. You have your dream life, but can you enjoy it with this scenario? He might well decide to divorce if you take the benefits of having a wife away from him. I'm not remotely saying that he deserves those benefits, but I am going to hazard a guess that he's selfish and entitled. Likely what he always wanted was a wife at home and to have all the fun he wanted on the side. Cake-eating. If you take away the wife at home to be his mommy, he might go find that somewhere else and want a divorce. That would screw up your dream life and that threat will always be hanging over your head. Is this sustainable?

I feel for you because it's truly not fair for you to have to potentially lose the life you cherish because he can't be a damned grownup.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 3:23 PM, September 28th (Monday)]

He doesmt want to lose the time with the kids or the farm either, but I agree it's always s risk. I cannot control what he does. I only control me. I dont want to play wife or mother to him anymore.

We always did better in a roommate/cohabitation scenario than we have when we tried to be the husband and wife.

Oh and I'm not taking away the wife role to replace it with a mother role. I'm just the mother of his children who he happens to live with. He can cook and do laundry and take care of himself...

I feel for you because it's truly not fair for you to have to potentially lose the life you cherish because he can't be a damned grownup.

No it sucks but I cant change him and I refuse to play his game.

He can chose to grow up, address his issues and become the safe husband or he can continue to be the horny teenager who needs constant external validation to fill a hole that will never be filled, but he can do that without me playing wife.

Why are you even still with him? Seems like after 18k post, you already should know the answer

Why are you even still with him? Seems like after 18k post, you already should know the answer

Maybe I need to change my tag line to say the following...

I will not divorce him and lose time with my children or my dream farm.

I value my kids and my farm more than I value what I dont have with my husband.

He has taken away enough from me. Time with kids and my dream life I will not give up because of him.

This isnt hard to understand.

Am I really at 18k posts? Cool. I am pretty sure they aren't all venting about my wh. I do start up SPF down in fun and games every week...

So then all of your threads are just vents, right? Because you don't really want help solving this?