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I think both you and ap are plan A sometimes and plan B at others. I don;t that that matters much.

I think the problem is I have made it clear that I want to be with her and so now she doesn't have to do any work to maintain that.

I think it's fine to let her know you want to be with her. The next step is to decide what you need from her for being together.

A member named Bigger says what I'm about to say better than I do, but I'l start.

You can say something like,

'I want to be with you, but only in a monogamous M.

If that sounds good to you, I need to to agree to being honest - no more lies. I need you to agree to IC with a goal of changing from betrayer to good partner. I need you to answer all my questions. I need you to take responsibility for your actions/behavior at all times. For example, you didn't make a mistake - you chose to conduct an A and to move out. You need to find a new job. You need to have no contact whatsoever with ap from now on.

If those are actions you will adopt, let's stay together. Otherwise, I'll help you pack.'

Of course, those are my main requirements, and you need to talk about your own, but feel free to use mine along with yours.

Society tells us both to get rid of cheaters and to forgive them, so you might as well choose what you want. You can hold your head high whether you D or R.

The thing is: you can D on your own, but R takes 2. IOW, you can want R, but it's not going to work unless your W does a lot of work. Right now, she's not doing it, so she's not a good candidate for R.

You need to figure out what you want from her and see if she'll deliver. If she agrees, R is possible. If she doesn't agree, R is not possible, no matter how much you want it.

If she does agree, you'll need to monitor her behavior and your responses to make sure she continues meeting your requirements - and you'll need to be willing to end R if she stops delivering.

Up to now, your requirements haven't been comprehensive enough - but I think it shows strength that you've come here because she's stopped delivering on even your simplest requirements.

She's grieving over the AP.... Did she ever grieve over you? Does she even listen to herself?

I get it in terms of her saying she is grieving for the AP and at least there is some honesty there. She is using IC as an outlet for that amongst other things.

It does seems that coming out of IC she's processing some stuff and her thinking has now shifted into thinking that the feelings she had for me before that stirred back up while with the AP that where her motivation to come back where just feelings that surfaced when she saw things in the AP that she didn't like and came back to me her safety net. Romantic heh! Despite the fact she was messaging me telling me her relationship with the AP was over for about two weeks but said she couldn't leave quite yet (keeping safety net in place).

Yet here we remain. She says she needs time to process her feelings and sort herself before she can work on the M but she does hope that we can work on it.

Quite honestly I have my days where I KNOW how shit i've been treated and it would be best that I just walked away from all of this.

OM is still a co-worker

there is still contact with the OM

this PA is on pause at best and it will restart without NC

between the WW and OM

WW must leave this job

is the OM married have a GF, this PA needs to be exposed

to them

My wife has switched jobs and no longer works with the OM.

I’ve asked her whats up and she says she thinks she is just going through the motions of missing AP

If she is she should not make you witness it. Seriously, you don’t need that “honesty”

My response to her would have been exactly what I said to my WH on dday, which was 10 years ago tomorrow.

“If you don’t like life with me then pack your shit and get the f*^k out”

He never left. He merely worked that much harder to become a better husband, father, person. None of which kept me from spending the following 3 years raging at him. Again, I always let him know that he could pack his shit.

My advice: Know that you deserve better and expect it. Do not, I repeat...do not do the pick me dance.

Eta: Wait...is she still working with this guy?!

My WH AP was a coworker. Here is what I said to him when I learned this info:

“Get another job, in another state, because I am leaving with or without you”

It took 5mo but my WH found a new job, in a new state, 1500 miles away.

Again: No pick me dancing.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 3:30 AM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

IWMWB,

I am certainly starting to feel I'm a plan B

It would appear as though she absolutely views you as nothing more than an option which might change once someone new comes along.

I don't feel right now like she is the one she has chosen and wants to be with

Listen, there are ebbs and flows with any relationship but if she is not showing you that you are her number 1 priority then you should consider asking her to leave. You are the prize that she needs to try to win back not the other way around.

Of course its only been around two months since she came back so maybe this is just a period of adjustment for her (or maybe thats my hopium)

Do you really think your WW needed a time of adjustment when she left you and moved in with her new boy toy?

I am just worried that we're going backwards rather than forwards at this point

Don't go anywhere or in any direction with her right now. Move forward on your own. If she wants to be with you she will follow and if she doesn't want to be with you then leave her behind.

She does talk about our future and she is optimistic and says she needs time but again I just feel her actions don't meet with the words

The two of you absolutely have futures. What remains to be seen is whether your WW is willing to do the work it will take to be a part of your future.

I was the ww, and I had a lot of strong feelings for the AP. I can tell you with certainty in hindsight what I missed was not him, but the feelings the affair gave me. Affairs get people high on their own brain chemicals. So, my "grieving" was really a lack of happy chemicals in my brain just like going through some sort of withdrawal.

HOWEVER, No Contact is the cure for that. I went NC with the AP, and really worked on getting my head back in my marriage. So, what I am trying to say is that her sudden burst and then subsequent detachment from you makes me think that Hellfire is correct, the affair has restarted or she has been in contact with this person. That's the thing, it's just like an alcoholic having a drink, it lights up those brain chemicals again and then your wife has started acting stupid.

I fully believe she is in contact with him, otherwise I fully believe these months later that you would be seeing a gradual improvement and not a decline.

I also agree with the other posters who said she feels like she can do this as you haven't really shown her your boundaries and a commitment to them. She thinks you will just wait while she figures this out so she doesn't have to worry about you. You need to pull the rug out from that. I know it's tempting to do the pick me dance, believe me I know. But, it's much better that you start considering yourself way more and her way less in this situation. Read about the 180.

For what it's worth, I don't really buy into the plan B, plan A, etc. I don't think it's really that well thought out. I think that she is minimizing you and dehumanizing you, but it's not because you are the worse choice in this. It's because she is in her addiction and the feelings of chaos and drama feel better to her.

She's killed my naivety and trust when it comes to infidelity so it has certainly crossed my mind that she is in contact again with the OM again. My gut feeling tells me that's the case, it feels like it was when she came back before and he was still on the scene.

That said we did go through a stage of Hysterical Bonding when she came back for about a month and I wonder if that delayed her withdrawl and her processing the feelings for the OM. In addition to the fact she ended it angrily with him.

I think what you have to remember is none of this acting out is logical.

H and I had HB also. If anything, that began to form a bond for me there. Fragile at first of course, but still moving in the right direction.

I do think that if she ended it angrily she could be under the false impression she needs closure with him, but all that does in my mind is reinforce that she is in contact with him. If she reached out to get closure all that does is suck you back in.

The commitment for NC has to be there or nothing else works.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:36 AM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

IWMWB I'm going to ask you straight, man to man. Why do you value yourself so little by allowing this woman to do this to you?

That is a very valid question and one I quite honestly struggle to answer. There are certainly days that go by now where I wonder if this is all worth the emotional roller coaster. Especially when right now it feels like I am the only one doing any way.

This is the first time my wife has come back and she has stick around for any decent length of time so perhaps part of me is hoping (and I know this could be the old hopium) that she is doing that because she can see a point where we can start true R work.

Right now I am dealing with someone that came back and we connected again during a phase of hysterical bonding but now she has become withdrawn again and isn't sure what she wants (thats what she said). I'm trying to figure out if this is some sort of withdrawal or processing of feelings for the OM she needs to resolve or it could be she is back in contact with the OM and is either waiting until I end things so she doesn't look like the bad guy OR she ends at some point and says "we" tried.

So my thinking is time will tell, how much time I let this go on for is yet to be determined and with days creeping in and there are days where I just want to be out of this situation.

...and isn't sure what she wants

No no. She knows what she wants, and it is not you. She just wants you around as her backup plan until she latches on to a man who she feels can give her more than you. So... she pussy bombs you with sex until she gets you calmed back down and stable, and then she starts her repeat behavior again. See, it will never stop: this loop of behavior of hers. She is broken, and she needs to break you in order to feel not as broken. She'll get you to a place of calm, and then she'll pull the rug out from under you again. It is her nature to do this.

You need help man. You are codependent. Please get some heavy therapy for codependency and break this cycle.

What you are saying is completely normal. I also think sometimes you just have to give yourself some time. Keep posting. None of this shit is easy.

I'm done.

She text today saying the feelings are not there and we went back and forth a bit with our different views/opinions. Wife says she "tried" and I said well if you call being completely withdrawn trying then most marriages should recover from affairs. Then the OM was brought up about how I made her block him and that he will probably not want anything to do with her now, she says she has not been in contact with him but she might contact him (more like she will).

I've had enough of this craziness. I've told her we need to sell the house and go our separate ways, enough is enough.

I'm so sorry man. Look, you gave her every chance and she threw those chances in your face. Now you need to go scorched earth on her. You need to see her as the enemy she is. Kick that pedestal out from under her and see her for the lowdown, lying cheat she is. Get some anger churned up, file for divorce and make sure you proclaim far and wide to anyone who will listen what a snake in the grass she is.

IWMWB how are you doing man?

[This message edited by Westway at 8:52 AM, November 4th (Wednesday)]