SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Truth be told crickets isn't a game. It's a way of life. It allows you the ability to respect yourself and set an example for your kids that their parents aren't two idiots toying with their lives and emotions. Be the example. IF your WS ever wants to get off of his high horse and have a real marriage he will let you know in no uncertain terms. He will be a man and fight for you. He will not carrot dangle and lead you on. YOU are the mother of his children. Respect that more then his sad attempts at keeping you on a leash.

You’re right, and the more I think about it, the more it hurts to see how much he allowed himself to change given the fact that we had a bright future and two awesome kids. I am struggling, but I am trying to get on the same page as him, which is: this marriage is over and there’s no saving it. I wish he would fight, but he has said himself, there’s no fight left in him.

The list of excuses that gets trotted out after cheating is just jusitifcation and trying to put the blame on you and/or the marriage.

I agree. I have heard excuses as stupid as “I would tell you stuff and you’d say ‘I already knew that, didn’t I tell you?’ ”, “we never watched shows together anymore, by the time I came back from work you had finished or gotten ahead”...trust me, I know he is grasping at straws. The good thing is that the more I think about what he did and what’s he’s doing, the easier it is for me to see him for what he is—a man with no morals and no regard for the people who have loved and helped him the most.

[This message edited by Keepingit2gether at 3:04 PM, December 4th (Friday)]

I have heard excuses as stupid as “I would tell you stuff and you’d say ‘I already knew that, didn’t I tell you?’

He's desperately trying to make himself feel like the long suffering good guy. He's not.

He's probably suffering now though.

If you read up about limerence/affairs, you'll read where it usually lasts from ~2 months to ~3 years.

I don't know if your H was limerent, but I'd guess the OW was. Maybe it WAS just sex for your H. If so, the OW gave him hell once she moved out and he didn't.

Once limerence fades, and ends, that's it. The only thing that can replace those highs is another limerent object.

But if he was, and it faded towards her, he's grieving his lost love, especially since he has nothing to show for it. It could explain the empty look in his eyes and the aging.

He's suffering, deservedly so.

If you allow him to grieve, and experience the full effects of his breakup with you, and remain strictly NC, he may start to feel separation anxiety from you.

It's important to stay strictly NC for all this. He may, not saying he will, but he may start remembering the intimacy, the good times, the laughter he had with you.

If this is what you want, you have to let him go through this grieving for the loss of OW, for the loss of you and the loss of the family alone.

He could be white knuckling a break up with the OW, or he already ended it and is grieving for the loss of her.

Oh yes, from your description, he is suffering. Let him.

It will be a while before he gets all the toxic thoughts out of his mind and becomes a fit human being to talk to.

[This message edited by Ariopolis at 7:23 PM, December 4th (Friday)]

He's desperately trying to make himself feel like the long suffering good guy. He's not.

He's probably suffering now though.

Oh, of course! If he hadn’t been “unhappy” for so long, how could he justify his affair? 🙄 I know that’s what he’s doing, even though at the beginning I did believe a lot of it was my fault. While a lot of the things he has said are 100% true, I think his “reasons” are lame. I have also felt annoyed/hurt by things he has done and I didn’t seek out an AP.

Honestly, I hope he is suffering. I feel like only when he reaches rock bottom will he start being honest with himself—he did this because he is selfish and wanted to keep up this image of perfect husband, father, person...which is obviously far from the truth. At the end of the day if the MOW was just sex and he never planned to divorce me because he was taking it to his grave, he has a funny way of showing it and will realize (hopefully sooner rather than later) that he lost more than he was thinking he’d lose.

It will be a while before he gets all the toxic thoughts out of his mind and becomes a fit human being to talk to.

Yes, you’re right...but I bet the toxic thoughts are starting to be mixed in with thoughts of inadequacy now, at least when it comes to our children. Last night I picked up the kids from his place (as karma will have it, he still has no car after more than 6 months...guess where he says most of their adventures took place?), and he saw how they were kissing the window when they saw me...just genuine joy to see me again 💕 As I was driving away I noticed he was still standing at his (side) door...I know little things like that must be a huge blow.

The kids love him, but he went from being the person they always wanted to be around (honestly, probably the favorite because I was the disciplinarian) to second best like he did to us 🤷🏽‍♀️ My dd actually took off her socks when we got home and said, “Ahh, home, sweet home”. I was just thinking yesterday how I might’ve lost him due to the circumstances, but I know I’m gaining something better—a closer relationship with our kids; that’s something I doubt he’ll ever regain. I hope his freedom is worth it.

[This message edited by Keepingit2gether at 6:21 AM, December 5th (Saturday)]

Keeping,

I was just wondering

I wish he would fight, but he has said himself, there’s no fight left in him.

When did he ever have the fight in him? He gave up before he ever even tried. And when he says garbage like this, it gives the false impression that an effort was put in, when the truth is he gave his family NO effort since he started his affair.

When did he ever have the fight in him? He gave up before he ever even tried. And when he says garbage like this, it gives the false impression that an effort was put in, when the truth is he gave his family NO effort since he started his affair.

Do you know what hilarious? He said he had been trying since dday1, when he kept lying about it being a friendship; when we went to two MC sessions where he blamed me for everything going on and was asked by the therapist if anything happened, which he denied; when he kept talking to her and telling her my every move (everything I was finding out); when he claimed he was sleeping with her to buy time.

I guess before then it was all the times he put up with me wanting to be at home with my family or at work providing for them instead of out and about with him 🤷🏽‍♀️ Or all the times I was “mean” and he just put up with it. It really is laughable, now that I think about it.

Glad you can see him for what he is.

He’s knocked off the proverbial pedestal

My H also planned to take details of his affair to his grave. Except I called the OW and she spilled the beans.

And of course my poor H was soooo unhappy ☹️ too. He also thought an affair was the solution and answer to his unhappiness. He also blamed me for his unhappiness.

Do the cheaters really expect us as betrayed spouses to believe this crap?

Do the cheaters really expect us as betrayed spouses to believe this crap?

I’m starting to see that they tell themselves how unhappy they are, how inflexible we are, etc. for so long, that they actually believe it and it only makes sense that everyone else should believe it. Yeah, you faking being in love for three years, pretending to work over time to spend time with your lover, taking her on dates while I was out of the country with the kids, etc. is totally justified by everything you “put up with”. Please, I don’t even think his family would be on his side if they found out exactly what happened (except for a few morons—mainly his brothers, who don’t have any sense).

he blamed me for everything going on

Frank Pittman, psychiatrist and author of "Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy" wrote those who react with a sort of “what was I thinking” or guilt over the affair will often never repeat the process.

Those who find it exciting, blame their spouse for the affair or find another “reason” outside themselves for cheating are likely to repeat the affair given the same or similar circumstances.

Those who find it exciting, blame their spouse for the affair or find another “reason” outside themselves for cheating are likely to repeat the affair given the same or similar circumstances.

I agree. That’s why I believe he can’t commit to trying; it’s not what he genuinely wants right now and he said he’s afraid of hurting the kids and I again. Translation: if I fuck up again, the kids will really despise me.

they tell themselves how unhappy they are, how inflexible we are, etc. for so long,

I don't know him, but I truly believe the shame of what he's done, blowing up all your lives for nothing is hitting him.

You did say you noticed even his looks have changed for the worse.

How are things going?

I hope you hold the hard line during the holidays for him to get the full undiluted effect of his own personally chosen actions.

How are things going?

On my end, it has been an emotional rollercoaster. This weekend was pretty bad even though I had my kids. I try to put on a happy face, but I just had this horrible feeling of emptiness and doubt—wondering how he could’ve done that to the kids and I if he had always been exemplary in every other aspect. The crazy thing is that as I was going to sleep, I kind of just thought about how the universe would make sure to send him what he needs/deserves at this point and that I needed the same...and what I feel I deserve is peace.

Lo and behold, he sends me texts again asking to talk. Saying he doesn’t deserve me, that he doesn’t want the single life, he misses me, he realizes a lot of the stuff he told me wasn’t really true (for example, that I was molding him to my lifestyle because I am more of a homebody), and that it may be too late, that he has been thinking of things to do to get my trust back, etc. His birthday is coming up and I really planned to continue NC until then, but now I’m on the fence.

What are his ACTIONS? Words don't tell the story when it comes to liars and cheats. Your WH's response to getting caught after a three-year affair was DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) and then to get an apartment and move out practically overnight. He ran. And that left YOU to be the pursuer if the marriage could be salvaged. Now, he's putting out feelers because things are starting to get REAL. Are those feelers enough to get you back into "pick me" mode? Do you think he'll be willing to do the necessary repair work to remediate his broken character if you take him back too easily?

I'm not trying to discourage you from working it out, far from it. But what's he going to do about his conflict avoidant personality and his broken character? What ACTIONS will he take to prove he deserves to be with you? When you meet him, why not ASK HIM? Tell him you hear his words, but what's he planning to DO to fix this?

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 7:38 PM, December 7th (Monday)]

I'm sorry you're going through this emotional torture, which is what it is.

But if you want R it sounds like things may work out.

If you get him any gift at all, make sure it's Linda MacDonald's book, "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair."

You have to be so careful how to let him know you'd consider taking him back. He's not safe by any means.

Maybe the affair became too cumbersome and not worth the effort anymore. But he still works with the OW. That means he has to demonstrate a willingness to prove to you that he ended it to your satisfaction. He has to come up with a plan to go NC with her, not too easy if they work together.

He lied to you for so long, it's not second nature for him, it's first. It's habitual and instinctual.

You've got to take a very hard line with him. Definitely IC for him. What the H was he thinking? NC and a timeline followed up with a poly. Full transparency for all phones and social media. He does the work first, you then decide if his efforts meet your exacting standards. You are no pushover.

I hate to bring these cruel things up, but he could have looked at the financial situation and decided it was cheaper to move back, find another friend and start the entire secret life again. He may count on you being easy and accommodating. He has to do the work to woo YOU back. If he doesn't, he was never going to be a husband to you, a faithful one anyway.

I would make him aware of the possibility of you finding someone and sleeping with the new man.

He probably never imagined his good wife in another man's arms and this thought ought to make him throw up.

Depending on how young your smallest is, maybe ask him if he'd ever consider giving up his parental rights so a new man in your life might adopt. Just to get him thinking.

He's got to start seeing you as the prize. He's got to be willing to work much harder to get you back.

It does seem to me like he might be the kind to give up when the going gets too hard. ( His kvetching about too late) He needs to buck up and become a man for once in his life.

As for himself, what single woman of quality out there is going to spend her time with a guy whose resume includes screwing a coworker for three years while married?

He's damaged goods and it's to your advantage if he knows it.

I hope things work out for you, but not at the cost of him getting the itch again in two or three years.

Make him do the heavy lifting. He'll come to like your new found authority. They always admire the one who has the power and isn't afraid to use it.

And you have more power than you think.

what's he going to do about his conflict avoidant personality and his broken character? What ACTIONS will he take to prove he deserves to be with you? When you meet him, why not ASK HIM? Tell him you hear his words, but what's he planning to DO to fix this?

Honestly, I left him hanging today. As much as I would’ve loved to hear what he had to say, I don’t want him to think I’m at his beck and call. As I have mentioned before, I was the one doing all the groveling and now I expect more effort than “ok, NOW I’m ready to talk sincerely because I miss you”...like you said, I want to see actions. Besides, the son of a...still has a divorce petition out there, so what am I supposed to think? Like I told him a few weeks ago, I don’t want to feel like my husband’s lover. If he’s going to try, he’s going to do it out in the open and he’s really going to put effort forth.

He lied to you for so long, it's not second nature for him, it's first. It's habitual and instinctual.

You are 100% correct. That is why I am having such a hard time believing him now. So last week it wouldn’t work and now he wants me to give him a chance? I’m honestly wondering if he’s going to confess something else at this point 😂 I think somewhere in my numerous posts I might have made it seem like he works with his AP, but they do not. They actually met at the gym (and she admitted to approaching him 🙄. It’s ironic...this is what I was hoping for and now I’m hesitant to believe any damn thing he says anyway!