SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Matching tattoos? Oh hell no!

Send him home to his mommy until he smartens up and stops acting like a teenager.

If he were my kid he’d not be welcome back / that I can tell you.

Getting matching tattoos is really a slap in the face. If you do decide to reconcile, something has to be done with those tattoos. Maybe require him to turn them into something more appropriate, like the rear ends of jackasses? Three farting butts?

It’s funny. I’ve already told him by not making a decision, that he really is already making one. He’s continuing the affair. And I know that’s true but I can’t image a life without him in it. I don’t know how to start over and be alone. We’re supposed to grow old together. I don’t know how to detach. This entire thing just repeats in my head every second of the day.

I'm so sorry that he is doing this to you, Misery.

I know exactly how you feel. Right now you're still in shock. Your world has been turned upside down and you've been betrayed by the person you expected would always provide you safety and support. It doesn't seem real.

But it is real and he's not the person you thought he was. You're trying to make sense of this new reality. I would recommend listening to the podcasts in the thread linked in my profile. Those explain how a BS responds to the trauma of betrayal and it really helped me understand my response to betrayal so many years ago.

You can be happy again without him if decide that and set your mind to it.

You're right, you were sworn to grow old together, and that's what should have happened. And your golden years should be free of questions about whether your WS really wanted to grow old with you or whether he just "settled" for you because he didn't have the balls to leave you and commit to his AP. That's what you get when you "win" that "pick me" dance - a lifetime of questions and doubts about why they "picked" you. The only thing that can answer those questions and assuage those doubts is you putting yourself first now and insist that he be the one fighting for you.

Best wishes.

I want to reconcile but my H is still talking to the AP.

Honey… Doesn’t matter how much you WANT to reconcile, if he’s still in an active affair it’s not possible unless YOU compromise what you consider reconciliation.

Try replacing infidelity with another negative behavior. Like if your husband was an alcoholic. Talking to the AP is akin to him stopping on the way both to and from the AA meetings to have a drink. Even keeping mementos or the AP number is akin to keeping a bottle of whiskey tucked away just in case he decided to drink again.
To reconcile BOTH parties need to commit to reconciliation. To commit the infidelity needs to be over. If it isn’t… well… no matter how much you WANT it can’t be done.

Now – this does not mean it isn’t possible. But basically it’s only possible in one of two ways.

There are plenty of couples that have found some way of "allowing" infidelity. It’s definitely not something I agree with or would accept for myself nor would I ever recommend it. Sometimes a spouse offers silent acceptance that the other goes to the "gym" every Thursday or has to "work" on a Friday night… The French nation didn’t bat an eyelid when one of their past presidents was given a state funeral, with his mistress and their son walking a few yards behind his wife and their kids.
Does that sound like something you could accept? If you were in agreement with your husband having his AP you two could "reconcile" and he could keep both of you.

Like I started – it’s not something I could do or would accept, but it’s your call.

Other than that… wanting to reconcile while he wants to keep contact with OW is like wanting to lose weight while wanting to eat ice-cream and candy. Doesn’t go together.

Does that mean your only option is divorce?
No. But it does mean you have to realize what you want and what you need, and then work towards those goals. At some point the inevitable conclusion might be that your goal and your husbands goal are not the same, and at that point divorce be your only course.
But that’s quite far away. The first step is to simply acknowledge that WANTING to reconcile and BEING ABLE to reconcile are two separate things, and that your husband needs to commit to R for it to even start.

This is what I would suggest:
Do some realistic research to understand the divorce process in your neck of the woods.
This is like learning CPR or putting on the safety-belt in your vehicle. It’s not because you want to or intend to use it, but more just in case. It removes the fear of the unknown, empowering you to move on.

Then I would tell your husband that it’s fine if he wants to remain in his affair, he’s free to do so. But not as your husband.
That he has a choice, he can choose you or he can choose her. YOU have made YOUR choice and that is that you don’t share husbands. If he isn’t willing to freely commit to the marriage then that’s OK – you have realized that ending this marriage is less bad than remaining in infidelity. You have realized that if this marriage ends you will eventually regain your happiness, but that as long as he expects you to share you are doomed to remain miserable.

You don’t need to file per se. Divorce is a long process and it’s both an emotional non-legal issue, as well as the legal, business aspect.
Let him know that you are moving on, with or without him. For some time he can commit to the marriage, but the further along YOU go the less inclined you will be to have him. YOU have started your journey out of infidelity.

I’m sorry he is putting you through this. He is sitting on the fence, time to 180 and push him off. R is absolutely off the table right now because you and M are not his priority, he is.

There are 2 ideas here that I think may be at least a little off.

First, I doubt that his tattoo is meant as disrespect to you. IMO, WSes are so wrapped up in themselves that they simply don't consider other people. In his mind he loved you even while 'loving' his HSX. You are simply not part of his calculus. She probably isn't a big part of his calculus, either. What counts for him are his fantasies and his hormones. She counts only as someone who fits his fantasies.

His A is totally about him, not at all about you. (You seem to realize that, but we have a lot of lurkers, and they may not understand that yet.)

*****

Second, I have a great deal of doubt about 'consequences' being significant in recovering from infidelity. As a society, we in the US are quick to impose consequences on people. We have the largest per-capita prison population in the world, yet we have a great deal of recidivism. Despite the fact that the prison population keeps growing, we still have more and more criminality as time goes on. Consequences alone do not stop the target behavior.

WRT your H, if you impose a consequence in the hope that the consequence will change his behavior, my guess is that he'll leave - the consequence will take the responsibility for choice away from him; it will allow him to blame you or the sanction for his decision.

And if he stays after you impose a sanction, what will you have? Maybe you'll have someone who woke up and realized he didn't want to lose you, but maybe you'll end up with a guy who is simply too cowardly to take a risk ... which hurts you, because R is truly a risk, and fear is an obstacle.

What you need from him is a free choice to stay with you and to do the very hard work of healing himself (which requires that he admit to himself that he failed as a human being and which requires him to change from betrayer to good partner).

R works only if the WS freely commits to becoming an authentic human being. If he does that after a sanction has been imposed, you must doubt that he made a free choice, and that is an obstacle to R, which is already risky without added obstacles.

So I don't buy the 'consequences' approach to ending infidelity. If my W was going to fail at R, I wanted to know ASAP. I submit that it's best for you to know how strong a candidate for R your H may be ASAP, too. Make it easy for him to fail. Don't scare him with a 'consequence'.

***

More important, you matter to you more than he does. You say you want R. You say you're afraid to be alone. Are those 2 ideas connected?

I'm with Tush - don't let fear foul you up. Do you really want to R? Do you really want to live the rest of your life with him. Can you live with his tattoos for the many decades that are probably left to you? Are you aware that some people get rid of tattoos by burning them away - do you see your H doing that for you?

I'm all for R when the BS really wants it (I did) and will work for it, and when the WS is a good candidate wants R and will work for it. Both conditions MUST be in place; otherwise R fails.

Be careful about what you want - you may get it.

Despite my hard words, if you're right about what you want and you get it, life is good. I wanted R, my W wanted R, we did the work, we're doing the work to make our M joyful, and we're happy about being together.

I'm definitely not saying D. I'm just saying that R is difficult, so be careful about choosing what you want. Don't avoid something just because you fear the unknown. You can thrive after being betrayed whether you D or R or wait to gather more info.

I guess I'm saying: don't make D or R your goal. The proper goal is to live a Good Life. Choose the outcome that looks like the best way to get that.

Impose the consequences you choose to impose, because you want the results, not because you think an ultimatum will manipulate your H into making the choice you want.

If you choose to D, file. If that causes your WS to change, so be it. Evaluate your results. If they change your sitch enough to change your decision, change your decision. But don't try to manipulate your WS.

OTOH, consulting with a good D lawyer to find out more about the options open to you is, IMO, a private action that is probably something that will benefit you.

JMO, of course.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:47 PM, Wednesday, May 25th]

Thank you everyone for the responses! I never expected this many. Let me say first yes I realize R is not possible without both of us being 100% invested in it. It’s simply that I have not decided on D. At least not yet. I’m waiting for an attorney to call me back so I at least understand how that all works.

Yes he absolutely is suicidal and mentally broken right now. Me & the family know we should have called 911 probably a dozen times since DDay but we also know if he doesn’t go voluntarily it will end very very badly. There’s a lot more going on than just the infidelity piece. He’s trying to get help but the healthcare system for people in crisis in the US is totally impossible to manage. His family is mostly working on that as I simply don’t have the energy for it.

As of this morning he says he’s willing to cut ties with AP but he doesn’t think it’ll make a difference. It doesn’t change his feelings towards her. Tbh I’m not sure how to process that. I guess it’s a step in the right direction. I need to do a deep dive into that and frankly he called me knowing I started work in a half hour. And the last thing either of us need is to lose our jobs ontop of everything else going on. He’s still very focused on himself atm.

He wants an answer from me on where we go next. I think he wants me to come home (though he didn’t specific ask that). If he’s truly not talking to AP anymore than I am willing to try. That was my hard line. I will not be under the same roof if he’s still talking to her. Idk maybe I’ll go back this weekend. At some point life is going to require me to go back. We can’t afford separate places and I can’t stay where I’m at forever.

Who has gone back after a short separation? I haven’t been home in 2 weeks. He’s moved into a spare bedroom for now. I don’t know what this looks like for us. It’s going to be so awkward. I know we have to basically relearn who we are as this has fundamentally changed both of us. Any suggestions on how to do this?

***
And yeah as far as the tattoo is concerned we both have many but this one absolutely has to go. Doesn’t matter if it’s a coverup or removal, but it can not stay as it is now. That’s something I’ll talk to him about later if we do move forward, cuz it’s a smaller thing in a much larger picture.

I'm so sorry you're in such a bad spot. I find it interesting that he wants and answer from you on where "we" go next. He may still be physically in your apartment. but he "went" a while ago. There would be no decision to make if not for his affair. He's thrusting the decision he already made on you so he can say you're to blame.

I understand your fear about him being suicidal and depressed, but I think a lot of cheating spouses use this escape hatch once caught. As long as you're horrible concerned about him, he keeps you in the game. In most cases these tendencies don't pop up overnight and they don't magically disappear on demand. He certainly wasn't depressed while he was driving across the country to spend time with her. If you ask me he's behaving like a teenager, who is lovesick because his puppy love interest had to go home after summer vacation. And he wants you and his parents to make him his favorite foods and tuck him in while he figures out what to do next.

Screw that. If you don't want to live under the same roof while he's still talking to her, give him two weeks to be gone and go back home yourself. That's not forcing consequences on him. It's taking your life back, just minus the person who put you in this situation. That's the only decision you should be expected to make. He was a big boy enough to lie to you and spend days with her, so he can certainly figure out what his next move is all on his lonesome.

It doesn't mean you should immediately file for divorce, it just means you are grabbing the steering wheel back. You figure out where you want to go in this relationship once you take back control.

Stop. Stop. Stop.

He’s not in control of your life — You are.

You decide if you want to go home. You decide what you are willing to do for him or the marriage.

If you are able to get control of things myself (instead of him calling the shots) you will be better off.

My H was a mess after Dday2. Not my problem. He hit himself into this mess - he had to get himself out. Without my help. He wanted to R. I did not.

We ended up R only b/c HE had to man up and fix things. I wasn’t helping Him.

I suggest if you help your H then you are dragging HIM down the R path. It’s time HE walks that path alone. If you join him, great. But if you help him pick up the pieces you will regret it. Because then you become an enabler b/c he will always know that if he cheats, you will be there and he knows what to say and do to get you to back down.

Sorry, but he doesn't get to be more of a basket case than you are right now. HE went into every bit of this with full knowledge. HE has all the puzzle pieces of who, what, when, where, and how. He is not traumatized by his chosen course of action. You, on the other hand, had all this sprung on you out of the blue. You've had a bomb go off which has blown the trajectory of your life to smithereens. You have been subjected to something which more often than not results in traumatic injury to one's mental health.

So, instead of dealing with any of that in a rational way, what you're getting is... "there better not be any consequences or I'll kill myself".
Is that really someone you want to be with? YOU have to be the adult and he gets to go have some kind of meltdown because he might have to deal with the consequences of his perfidy?? That's so childish.

Be careful not to over-promise regarding R. I think there's a strong possibility that this is going to hit you later after the shock wears off and you're going to have trouble finding any attraction for him. Sometimes, in crisis, we see traits in the WS which we hadn't realized earlier were intolerable. Once you see that side of them, you can't un-see it.

It doesn’t change his feelings towards her.

Actually this is the one true thing he has said to you. You are Focusing on NC. But NC is only one small piece of a wayward husband working to fix himself, help you heal and build a new relationship.

NONE of that can start until he actually removes her from his heart. While he is still pining away for her, he is of no use for you. Reconciliation is impossible.

NC or not, what you should be telling him is something like: "While this woman is in your heart, there cannot be a you and me. If you want back with me someday you need to work with an Infidelity specialist to remove her from your head, soul and heart. I do t need a partner who is pining away for another woman. That’s of no use for me. So do what you need to. Go be with her if that’s what you want. I am going to work on getting out from your infidelity. If I’m not your one and only I will walk that path on my own. She is the one who helped you put a dagger in the chest of the woman you vowed to love honor cherish and protect. If you can’t see that she’s a piece of shit for doing that with you, then I don’t want you in my life. I wish you well in finding what you are looking for. Truth is that it was in front of you the whole time, and now you’ve lost it.

Then stop responding to him. You go NC with him. It’s hard I know. He either figured it out on his own or he never will be who you need him to be.

I wish you good luck. You should find your own trauma specialist to work with.

These early days are so confusing and we're carried along in a current of survival instincts. I really think it's too soon for you to know if you want to reconcile or not. What's really happening is that you are not ready to change your vision of your future (and why would you be . . . you've been thrown a huge curveball) so you're instinctively clinging to the one you had planned. Intellectually you know that you can't R unless he goes NC with the AP but as someone else put it, you don't want to put yourself in a position where you're dragging him along towards R.

Can you trade living arrangements with him? He's the one who blew up the marriage, why isn't he the one to live with his parents? That will also help flip the power dynamic to one where he has to be invited back into your joint home based on his actions, or he needs to decide to make a go of it with the AP or whatever, but you will be where you belong regardless. Since he's suicidal it sounds like he shouldn't be alone anyway, and you have your own wounds to take care of at the moment . . . this is a time for his family to take care of him.

What often happens in a situation like this is that the BW is driven by a desire to get rid of the rival before making decisions about the relationship. And that makes sense . . . of course you want to be the one with the choice. But since the WH hasn't decided between the BW and the AP yet, the BW winds up putting up with disrespect and ridiculousness in the hopes that he'll finally get there. It's not really the "pick me dance" because that involves trying to nice him or beg him back. But it has a similar effect, which is to tell the WH that he is the one with all the power because the BW keeps giving him extensions on his final decision.

I would try to focus on yourself. He has a supportive family and they can worry about him right now. Proceed as though you are ending the marriage because he has not given you any solid reason to believe he's capable of R. If he does give you a reason, you can re-evaluate.

Unfortunately, this type of affair is more difficult to overcome than others because the APs have a shared history and are reliving their lost youth with one another. They're likely more compatible than the average affair couple because it wasn't just a "right place at the right time" situation but was based on deep feelings carried for a long time. Now that doesn't mean that practically it will work out (they live really far apart, right? And they're not 16 any more obviously) but if you try to squash it without letting him reach that conclusion for himself, then the "star crossed lovers" thing might persist for him. She'll be the "love of his life" and you'll be the mean lady who made him give her up. So again, focusing on yourself and knowing that you deserve to be with someone who thinks you hung the moon is your best course of action.

Hi Misery-

I know a lot of what we are saying feels very counterintuitive to saving your marriage. You may even think, "if I do what these people are suggesting, I will surely never reconcile!" But the cold hard truth is that you will absolutely not have a successful reconciliation in the current state as you described it. It may be easier to look it as though your marriage is already lost and your next moves will either increase or decrease the chances of new relationship being built with your wayward husband.

This dynamic where WH husband gets to wallow and be a victim (of his own choices) is downright fucking ridiculous. He needs to snap out of it. You know how to throw cold water on his head and bring him back to reality? Its shit getting real and starting to imagine his future without you in it. Once the reality of you not being there occurs, he will start to realize all there is to lose. Or he may be a total idiot and not, but I will tell you that standing around patiently waiting for him to get his shit together while he mourns the loss of another woman ain't it sister.

You need to put your heart on mute and focus solely on future Misery.

Me & the family know we should have called 911 probably a dozen times since DDay but we also know if he doesn’t go voluntarily it will end very very badly.

Why? all the more reason to call 911 if he is in such crisis.

You and the family need to stop letting him run the show.

Period.

He cannot cheat and lie and then play victim and demand a commitment from the betrayed spouse.

If not talking to the OW won’t change anything as to how he really feels, please stop feeling obligated to help this poor clown.

He’s broken. Well thanks to him so are you!!!!😡

I lived your exact situation. I tried to drag my H down the Reconciliation road. It was a complete waste of time. Pointless. Useless.

When I stood up for myself and told him to get out - that’s when he started to realize he was no longer calling the shots and he was not in control.

his family is more of a family than my own and they will and are supporting each of us separately and will no matter what.

You are in a very precarious situation. For whatever reason, you have either lost or cut yourself off from your own family's support, and that's a problem given that your marriage is breaking up. You can't depend on his family any more, because in the end they WILL take his side against you. Get out of his mother's house and move back to YOUR house. You have every right to live in your own home. When you divorce, the fact that you're currently living in your own home will make it more likely that the judge will award it to you. This is very important. You need to stop thinking with your heart and start thinking with your head.

Your marriage is over. Your husband doesn't want reconciliation. He's currently having an affair, it isn't over. He even tattooed a momento of her on his body (which is pathetic and juvenile, btw). He probably carried the torch for her throughout your marriage, and when she became available, jumped at the chance to be with her. Pathetic, immature, yuck.

He isn't suicidal- that's a ruse to get you sympathetic rather than angry, and to make you give him the time and space to figure out how to proceed. It's a ploy to keep you passive in this situation. There is also no such thing as a "fog". The "fog" is just a ruse for your WS to get more time to decide his next moves, and/or prepare to take advantage of you financially in the divorce.

You need to move back into your own home right now, and also consult with a lawyer right now. I'd bet money that your WS is already talking to a lawyer, and possibly also taking (or planning to take) money out of shared accounts in advance of the divorce which he knows is coming.

You said you're afraid to be alone. You're already alone. You became alone when he started cheating, and you only recently found out about it. It's a shock, yes, but it's time to start accepting this as part of your reality and then acting on it. Your husband has already emotionally divorced himself from you- you're no longer a couple in his mind. That's why he has a tattoo representing her and not you on his body.

It's a lot less painful to be alone and divorced than to be alone in a marriage in which your spouse doesn't love you or stay faithful to you, and you know it. Divorce also gives you the chance to find someone else. Even if you don't find someone else romantically, you can build a new life filled with good people and things, away from this insanity. Any of that would be an improvement over your current situation. Change is scary, but necessary, at times like this.

Do me a favor everyone. Stop assuming some things. He IS suicidal. He is in crisis. That is not up for debate. It is not a ploy. He has a history of mental illness and has attempted suicide in the past.
What could go so wrong if we call 911? He’s likely be shot by the cops due to getting violent if they try to force him. Our state doesn’t have good response to these situations. If he’s lucky enough to not be shot/arrested he will attempt suicide on watch to spite everyone. The courts will get involved. He loses all control around his recovery. He will also lose his job due to being required to stay longer than 72 hours. He will lose his health insurance and we’ll both be stuck with medical bills we can’t pay.
He is TRYING to get help. Mental Healthcare is an absolute nightmare in the US. It’s impossible to manage. He’s family is working on it. He’s working on it as much as he can.
Don’t assume you know everything. Sorry but it’s a touchy subject and I’m tired of hearing it’s not real. No one ever thinks mental health is as important as it really is.

All that said I’m working on me for now. My family is not an option for support. They’re not even in the US. I will continue to lean on his family as they are the ones there for me.

As of yesterday we are done. I found out more BS and lies about what he’s doing right now. Including sexting on our anniversary last week while the two of us were also texting trying to work through things. I’m waiting for a few lawyers to get back to me.

I’m trying to get back to the house. For many reasons it’s a lot easier for me to leave than him. We both need to continue to work as we have many bills that have to be paid. I can work from anywhere, he can not. Until we can untangle our life, I’m gonna have to at least be civil with him.

I am just devastated. How does one’s entire life get unraveled so fast! I’m still trying to process everything never mind figure out what to do next.

Big hugs Misery. I'm sorry you discovered more crap. I'm glad you have clarity on your next steps and some lawyer appointments lined up.

Do you have a friend or coworker you can lean on right now? Maybe someone who's been divorced? It's important for you to have your own cheering section right now. I'm glad your WH's family is there for you too, I'm just thinking that as time goes on you may need to look elsewhere for support.

I don't have much experience with mental illness but I did lose a family member to suicide and I know that it's no joke. I'm sure it makes it that much harder to put on your own oxygen mask. Have you tried therapy? I'm trying to imagine how we can get as many people in Misery's corner as possible.

I am just devastated. How does one’s entire life get unraveled so fast! I’m still trying to process everything never mind figure out what to do next.

It's a terrible cruelty. You deserve/d so much better. Take the time you need to cocoon and take care of yourself.

I'm very sorry you're in this sitch. The whole medical system in the US is a mess, not just mental health, though mental health is one of the worst parts.

I have no problem accepting as accurate your description of your H's mental state, but neither you nor his family can keep him alive. None of you is equipped to handle his threats, especially because they're real.

911 may fail, but it's your best bet.