SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You've spent 6 years on this guy and only now are engaged. And you are looking at years of reconciliation before marriage?

Cut your losses. Run.

HUM1021,

Yeahhh.. I wish i could think more clearly. It is so hard to think about letting go of someone i love so much. I'm just gutted and need some time but deep down I do feel I will have a hard time getting past any of this and that i might just have to let it go. I wish it never came to this, our future just ripped away for something that meant nothing at all.

So you have personal insight into two marriages which went through infidelity. One healed and the other didn’t. You know reconciliation is possible and people can heal and move out of that awful space. But some don’t.

"I really do need to take it slow. I am starting to self-sabotage with my anger and taking it out on him and he's starting to get frustrated, rightfully so. He's still a person and I need to calm down and rage less. One day at a time, like you've said."

Ruminating over the details is normal, asking him the same questions over and over is normal too — it’s a desperate attempt to comprehend the reasons your life just exploded, to find your way through the chaos, an attempt to put the pieces together again in a way which makes sense.

And the anger and rage, especially the rage which erupts unexpected, that too is something many of us have gone through. Don’t feel ashamed or blame yourself for it. Sadly that too comes with this process. When you feel it coming on tell him it’s not a good time to talk. Resume when you’re steadier. All of this is a result of the shock and none of it is your fault.

I can only say this now but it took me a while to get to that point. My husband always complied when I told him I needed a few minutes because he … well it’s obvious why! I regret the rage because it wasn’t me and because it made me feel like I lost my dignity. What he did was making me into an awful person and I found myself resenting him for that too.

If your BF wants to get through this he needs to become familiar with what is happening with you internally. There are some good books out there written for the cheating partner which explain the stages you’re going through now, he should read them. I can’t remember the title, but my husband read one of them and it really helped him, which helped us both. I’m sure it’s on the list in The Healing Library on this site. He has zero right to be frustrated with you. You are wounded and he needs to put himself completely aside right now and take care of you.

This is the hardest time. I promise you your internal world and emotions will settle.

Elica,

He doesn't get frustrated when i ruminate or repeat questions, or if I wake him up at 5am to cry when I am having anxiety. His frustration only comes out when I say something particularly cruel. Overall i would say he is there for me when I am angry but of course draws a line if i take it too far. I am trying to be mindful because while i feel so dehumanized, there is no reason for me to lose my dignity (as you've mentioned). I do not want to be a spiteful, awful and vindictive person. I want to feel strength within myself, while feeling angry, but not stooping to a lower level than I am okay with.

He really is stepping up in more ways I could have imagined. There have been some setbacks during our conversations but I am feeling okay..? I don't know.

A couple hours ago we sat on the couch after telling his mom what he did. She was very objective with me, she didn't take sides, told me to follow my heart and dig deep within myself to make a decision I would be happy with by the end of my life. She didn't want me to go through with a relationship with this type of pain because she didn't want to see my life wasted. She remained hopeful for us but supportive of whatever decision I make and I really appreciated the love and kindness she showed.

Afterwards my fiance sat with me and he cried. He says he imagines me in a glass house, filled with fire and smoke, I'm sitting alone and crying and he's on the other side of the glass watching me but not able to help me, and he is the one who set that fire and the one hurting me. Tears streamed down his face as he's explaining what he sees every time he looks at me, saying that he hates what he did to me. It broke me further hearing this.

I am so gutted that this has been the outcome of our relationship. I see such a good person in him, a person who has hurt me more than anyone I know and it is so difficult to face. He starts therapy in 2 days and he says he is determined to face that part of himself to make sure he is dead and that it is the least he can do.

Therapy, time, patience, grace towards myself, and honesty is what will get me to a clear minded decision.

[This message edited by funnything at 9:10 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

I am also "fortunate" that this wasn't an affair where he developed any feelings, so I know she truly meant nothing to him. It lasted 2 nights and that was it, our relationship broke over 2 nights of attention that was never about me or her. It was just about him.

Funny,

I explained you before, but you are hoping to find a good side to minimize what it was done to you so that your nerve system can justify and accept the decision to not walk away immediately from your abuser.

And I understand, it’s normal, is one of many common reactions of a wounded attachment.

What you are getting here is called trickle truths.

You aren’t getting closure. You aren’t getting empathy. You aren’t getting the truth.

Not just yet.

Infidelity is selfish and completely dysfunctional, when he says there are no feelings he is managing you, not telling you the truth.

Sure there is no love in infidelity because it’s rotten to the core, there is plenty of feelings and emotions. They aren’t feelings that are worth a shit for anyone looking for a relationship, they are transactional, thrilling, exploitative, exciting, pervertedly entertaining like a child mischief.

But there is a lot. Why do you think they get so addictive that is giving cheaters withdrawal symptoms like any drug addiction?

You want to believe that he is back in incarnating the good parts of himself.

Truth is he is still embodying the worst parts of himself, and he is using his "power" over your emotions and feelings, to manage you, like any other chore.

So that you don’t bother him too much and don’t trigger his shame.

And while his good parts never truly disappeared, there is someone else at the wheel now, and he might not have the balls to ever really get rid of that persona and throw the cheater self under the bus.

Because is comfortable for the ego to exploit rather than to question deep rooted issues and resolve them. For that’s implying the death of the current ego and its dissolution, and that’s not easy to do, for it worked out good enough until now for this person.

Again, you need to put yourself first.
Read the 180 and set your boundaries.

I keep reading BackfromtheStorm's posts and wondering why so few people or therapists ever were able to give me the profound insights he has been giving you, right here. Such explanations of a sneaking mindset might have saved me years of time I wasted believing fundamental change could happen in someone who had chosen to betray my love and trust, and even the laws of the land, without even a second thought. (That's why my D-Day 2 happened on my birthday: being informed that my WH was in jail for having gone to a local motel and taken his clothes off for a prostitute hours after he'd given me a birthday card and a big present to show me his love and devotion!) I've just learned a new concept here from BftS: "victim management." Yes, it really does happen. All part of the broken self, and nobody else can love that person out of it.

Please get distance from his family dynamic and find independent support. As much as his mother gave you kind and wise words, just now I think you will want to lean in a different direction to find stability in recovering from this shock.

So sorry to hear what you’re going through. That’s really tough. I want to ask you what my therapist asked me - was your relationship actually that good or are you romanticizing it? Just something to think about. The most important thing right now is to take care of yourself - focus less on him and what he’s gonna do, and more on you and what you need to feel alright. It’s probably too soon to make a decision. You’re still in shock , and it’s hard to reconcile the idea of someone you love and trust so much being able to do things like that to you right under your nose. I honestly would do a deep dive into his phone and computer and make sure he really hasn’t given attention to anyone else over the years because the fact that you told him to come sleep with you and he didn’t is just sketchy. I also thought the thing about him hiding your ring was weird ? Idk what to make of that. Take care of yourself and feel free to keep posting here. Definitely get IC and lean on your friends or family for support .

I have a ton of thoughts and I'm not sure where to start.

BackfromtheStorm,

I really appreciate your words, as hard hitting as they are. I need to sit with them and reflect on what it means for me. I am slowly finding stability and wanting to regain my composure and strength, for myself.

I do want to ask you if you feel that someone in his position is incapable of becoming a better person and truly never being who is at the wheel today? And who was at the wheel during those 2 days? I struggle with the idea that someone can never learn or become better after doing something terrible.

I say this because while I have never cheated in a committed relationship, I have been deceitful in the past and it felt wrong and gross. I hid my actions from that person so that I would never hurt them and I never faced the consequences because I kept it to myself. From then on I have always been very aware of men i come across in my current committed relationship, i tell my partner when someone crosses a boundary, i'm vocal about being in a relationship to people i meet and don't allow myself to cross a line as it is always on my mind that I don't want to be a liar in my relationship. Anything that remotely feels shady I then go to my partner and let him know. I am not sure if this is because of what I did when I was 22 when i was seeing a different guy non-exclusively, but i was well aware of what i was doing then. It is VERY different to what my fiance did and not even remotely 1:1. But what I am trying to ask is if you believe a person can take something horrible they've done and output a genuine and positive change?

As for his trickletruthing, yeah. I mean he is quite open about everything he felt during those two days, could it have truly meant nothing? I did focus on this a lot with him and asked him to be honest with himself. I told him that maybe he is trying to tell himself it meant nothing so he doesn't feel more shame in himself, but to really sit and think if there was something there because the real answer matters most and is what moves him (and me) forward.

Leeleelu,

Our relationship was not perfect, and evidently had more cracks than I realized. But yes, it was good. It was fun, adventurous, kind, etc. It was not good in earlier years (because of me) and I think those issues have resurfaced today but the last 3 years were very good. The problem is communication. While I had check ins with him regularly to ensure the issues from earlier years weren't on his mind, he was telling me everything was good. Clearly, that is not true. I am not sure what he was telling himself in his head, if he genuinely believed that at the time of our check ins. He said every now and then he would think of things he didn't like but he'd brush them off because he would look at the bigger picture and see how things are better. It's all quite confusing and something he needs to work through in therapy because I have always been there to hear how he's feeling, the opportunities to talk were abundant. It is okay to have doubts, but it goes to show how deep this goes and how he chose to escape from his issues and his misguided way to cope. He acknowledges this as well and will be going through this with his therapist. It hurts to know how many times I have asked "how are we doing in this relationship" and any of those times he could have mentioned his insecurities around the timeline of having kids, or that he feels i can be unreliable sometimes or that previous intimacy issues still creep up in his head. I wish he had just told me as i've shown to be a better listener and communicator than i was earlier on in our relationship. And yet, this is where we've landed. He had a million healthier choices he could have made and he chose the one and only decision that destroys the very relationship he doesn't want to lose. It is so insane.

I did do a deep dive on his devices - nothing there. He didn't get a chance to hide it either, it all happened on the same day when I went through it. From what I am seeing, he has never done this before while being with me (and past relationships) and the only cheating that he's done were those 2 days. I have gone through the entire apartment and there are no other devices either.

As for hiding the ring, i think i communicated that poorly. It was on the bedside table and the day I found the texts he took the ring and put it away because he knew it would have triggered me very hard to look at it. I really appreciated this gesture. I didn't want to be the one to pick it up after the discovery and ask him to hold onto it. I have not asked for it back since and him taking it was the appropriate move.

I get the sense my input hasn't been helpful but I'll to try again. What I mean is, sure, ANYTHING is POSSIBLE. But I sense you are really wondering what is LIKELY to happen with him, if you go forward. Is that sort of the question?

If it is, I'll share the hardest-hitting comment I ever got as I was coping with my FIRST D-Day in 2002, a quarter century ago. I'd seen an IC to get emergency support and poured out my situation to this older therapist. He then met with my WH one time before I went back to him as a client because I knew I needed IC (for the betrayal trauma) and I asked him the same question you just did: my WH seems so sorry right now; can he truly change so I never have to deal with this kind of trauma, again?

Here's the reply I got; maybe you'll be surprised I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE IT applied to my WH! I never went back to that counselor, because frankly I didn't want to believe what he'd concluded. Because of that, I lost 12 more of the best years of my life, as I've already shared. Based on what HE HAD WITNESSED many times over many years, the IC told me: "The BEST predictor of future behavior is the behavior you have SEEN."

OUCH, right? Sounded right, yet why couldn't I somehow really accept that, and act accordingly? Perhaps because I had watched my parents divorce due to my father's drinking and THEN I watched my father quit decades of drinking after he hit bottom and almost died. I loved my father, was relieved he didn't die, so I was inspired to think like 'if my alcoholic father could change, then major change was possible for my WH's issues, too.' Seemed believable to me. But in reality, I was applying the potential I saw in my father's miraculous turn-around to my WH and that was my biggest mistake, as my WH has deep-seated Family of Origin issues with psychological traits that make him unable to integrate love and fidelity. Who knew that? Absolutely nobody.

The therapist who said that to me also told me that after he'd spent an hour with my WH, he hadn't seen signs my WH was ready to dig deep at all. H kept the conversation on his job, etc., and evaded going deeper into ANY personal stuff with a counselor. Even after he had just destroyed the marriage he said he wanted. HUGE red flag. Counselor tried to tell me.

But what I MOST WANTED TO HEAR was that there was still HOPE. That tricky 4 letter word. So I chose never to go back to that counselor, he made me feel sad. But we did go for a full year of Marriage Counseling with a different counselor (and I don't recommend MC for betrayal!). At the end of 48 weekly sessions, we were handed a written summary: he was told he needed intense individual therapy and I was told I could never be sure he wouldn't cheat again. He never followed up with the IC and sure enough, I gave it 12 years to "reconcile" never really addressing his deeper issues and had to survive it all, again. Just something about your story so far resonates with my initial shock and surprise, or I wouldn't be trying to share here.

You can always come back to this relationship some time in the future but please don't "rug sweep" by buying into his sorrowful claims in the immediate aftermath of what you discovered. So many, like myself, have done that. For all we know, your BF may be acting out a deeply-rooted family pattern, (another crazy theory I have lived long enough to see isn't so crazy!) and might have no conscious idea why he even DID that! And that's no foundation to build a marriage on.

So I'd advise you to give yourself space and a lot of time. Be able to stand on your own two feet. Hard as it is to face this, you will thank yourself later on, I believe.

Superesse,

Thank you. Those are wise words. I will and have to focus on myself so I can stand firmly in this world.

I appreciate your advice. I am grateful for everyone here.

I do want to ask you if you feel that someone in his position is incapable of becoming a better person and truly never being who is at the wheel today?

It is very possible, everyone can change even if change ain’t easy.

However this is the hard thing to swallow:

You cannot love him out of being a cheater.

No matter how much you love, no matter how much good you see in him, he is broken by choice and fear of facing his inner ghosts.

You can’t climb out the abyss when the person you are trying to help to rise up, is running away from themselves in the opposite direction. The depths.

Cheater behavior is very predictable and the reactions of someone deep in the fog are like a script, as many reformed waywards here can tell you.

One thing a cheater understands is consequences. Not love. Not empathy. Not connection.

Consequences.

They do what they do because they are running from something to find refugee in a fantasy. And the fantasy story paints with lies also the evil and pain they are inflicting on their closest people.

This is not stable behavior, it’s neither adult, mature or rational.

The only thing they focus is selfishness, and as long as that selfishness does find indulgence and forgiveness, it’s extremely unlikely that they feel a true drive to change.

He can change. But on,y if this force towards rebirth is coming from within himself.

To face the ghosts that terrify him since forever.
And why should he face this scary and uncharted adventure after all?

What are the stakes he is risking right now if he simply stagnates I. How he always was?

There is not consequences, he is unlikely to ever take the risk to truly face the monsters hiding behind his mask.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:09 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

Thank you BackfromtheStorm. And what to you is a consequence or consequences?

I cannot love him out of this, you’re right. It’s not about me. A person can only change because they don’t like what they see in themselves and have to willingly take steps to be different because they WANT to.

That is so very important to keep in mind. Whether I am in the picture or not, he should be taking those steps to be better because he wants to be. Not because he wants me to stay, but because he doesn’t like who he sees in the mirror.

His actions point towards that, but of course my guard is up.

[This message edited by funnything at 7:17 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

Thank you BackfromtheStorm. And what to you is a consequence or consequences?

You postponing or canceling the wedding would be a consequence. Him having to shamefully tell his mother was a consequence. I think he's seeing some of the consequences Storm is referencing. I think his main message is to not rug sweep this or be too quick or easy to forgive and forget. You're allowed to be angry and lash out a little. I'm not suggesting abusive behavior, of course, but I think a little flash of anger here and there is warranted.

I didn't catch when your wedding was originally planned for, but I think it should be postponed for at least 2 more years from now if it was planned sooner. If not canceled altogether until you feel safe enough to even consider it again.

*ETA: Does your ex friend have a significant other?

[This message edited by Pogre at 7:49 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

The main consequence is the matter of choices.

He choose infidelity.

In consequence of this discovery, what are your choices now?

This is no longer about him, it is not the concern that should trouble you, though I understand emotionally is easier said than done.

But the question that makes sense, is this:

What do you want?
Do you want to live in infidelity?

When you answer that you get clarity.
Whatever happens next, is all a consequence of putting yourself and your healing first.

You are the prize.

Pogre,

Yes, I told him that a marriage for us is off the table right now. It was planned for 2 years from now but right now there is zero timeline, there is no planning, it is not part of our future at this point in time. He also knows that I do not know if i want to stay in this relationship and that I am thinking of leaving.

I don't believe we are rug sweeping. I couldn't even if I tried, it's not in my nature to let things go too quickly if it's not appropriate to. I don't know if this is good or bad but we probably talk for 4-5+ hours every single day for the last month about everything. Just this morning we have spent the last 2-3 hours talking, discussing any question I have, asking him to reflect deeply, no question has been off the table. It is all uncomfortable and not a day has passed where we haven't sat down for an extended amount of time to make sure not to rug sweep. This obviously can't go on long-term because it's not healthy, but right now I am finding it necessary to continue having uncomfortable conversations. I have not forgiven and I am never going to forget, and he is not off the hook and never will be because it is life-long damage that he understands falls on him to provide safety again. He understands that and doesn't get defensive. He is always allowing me to have the space and time to talk, no matter how that looks like for me.

My ex friend is not in a relationship. The only men she can pour attention to are men that are hard to get. Men that have girlfriends, wives, men that are in a position of power, men that are supposed to be off limits because they're her volleyball coach, for example. She has trouble getting into a healthy relationship because she's rotten to her core.

[This message edited by funnything at 8:45 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

I don't believe we are rug sweeping. I couldn't even if I tried, it's not in my nature to let things go too quickly if it's not appropriate to. I don't know if this is good or bad but we probably talk for 4-5+ hours every single day for the last month about everything. Just this morning we have spent the last 2-3 hours talking, discussing any question I have, asking him to reflect deeply, no question has been off the table. It is all uncomfortable and not a day has passed where we haven't sat down for an extended amount of time to make sure not to rug sweep. This obviously can't go on long-term because it's not healthy, but right now I am finding it necessary to continue having uncomfortable conversations. I have not forgiven and I am never going to forget, and he is not off the hook and never will be because it is life-long damage that he understands falls on him to provide safety again. He understands that and doesn't get defensive. He is always allowing me to have the space and time to talk, no matter how that looks like for me.

I don't see anything "bad" in what you're describing at all. In fact I think you're handling this a lot better than most who show up here (like me) still shellshocked and have no idea what to do.

Just keep doing what you're doing. If there's a chance to salvage this then he'll patiently wait for your nervous system to calm down, do whatever work he needs to do on himself, and be there when you're ready. It sounds like he's appropriately handling his end pretty well so far, too. However, if you decide this was a dealbreaker, which you have every right to do, then that's on him. Not you.

I'm 17 months out from d day. We still have some multi-hour long conversations about what happened, but there's quite a bit more history and a lot more deception and treachery to my story. I just updated my profile if you're curious. D day was pretty ugly for me and I still have a lot to process, but things are going pretty well so far. Reconciliation is possible, but it definitely takes both parties giving 100% for it to work.

Pogre,

All things considered, it feels like our conversations are becoming much more productive. I do think it is because he did not deny anything from the start and he humbled himself immediately, checked his ego at the door and showed very little defensiveness from the beginning. He showed how much it broke him from the moment I found out and never tried to pretend like i was crazy or over my head. What I saw was exactly what happened and he couldn't deny or hide it, it was all in front of me. That has brought me some security, hopefully it is authentic and not a false sense of security. The thing with this type of deceit in a relationship is that we now don't know how to trust our own judgement, and that is what i am having most difficulty with. Is he telling me what i want to hear? Is he speaking from the depths of his heart and doesn't want to be this person and will make sure that person is fully healed? But from everything i have been shown from him, he is owning it as much as a person can in his position and is prepared for how brutal that can look like for as long it has to. And he has owned it from day 1 and not a single day has he wavered. That could change tomorrow, but I am taking it hour by hour at this point.

I hope to find clarity through my own therapy to make an honest, loving decision that is for me and me only. I hope he finds what he is looking for through therapy for himself as well, whether I'm in the picture or not.

I read your discovery and what followed. May I ask if there was a moment where you felt a sense of peace, like she finally was becoming the person she needed to be for you and for herself? And what stood out to you the most from her healing herself that made you feel more secure to want to stay? I am happy to hear that your marriage is in a far better place than you ever could have imagined. The type of work and dedication to commit to each other is astronomical, and one can only hope that it shows in the end that it was worthwhile. I think you are finding that in your marriage and that is a beautiful thing despite it starting out so tragically.

[This message edited by funnything at 9:14 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

You are getting such good feedback here. When you find yourself hashing over the same questions once again, like we all have done (sometimes at 3 am!) try to remember that while you are struggling and you do need some emotional support right now, he might not be the best source of that support at some point soon. Detaching a bit to allow yourself some breathing room might be a good idea. You see, so long as these marathon talk sessions go on, to him it means he is still the Star of this shitshow you guys are having! The spotlight of your attention, good or bad, has been laser-focused on him, trying to make sense of the senseless. I am afraid he might get a little too used to being the Star...to him it says he still has your total devotion. And as BftS wrote, how is that dynamic handing him any real "loss of love" consequence? It might in some respects be rewarding, or reassuring, to him! This crazy realization came to me after a long, long time going through my infidelity ordeal.

I know you want to get closure on the questions you have, but if he cannot access his own unconscious motivations or even if he can, these things take time. And there will come a point when you will need to seek your strength elsewhere.

Would either your mother or your father be a sympathetic listener about a topic like this?

Superesse,

You are very right. We have discussed him moving out for a bit to give me space. Sometimes he brings it up because he wants me to get genuine clarity and feels that I am not giving myself the best chance of understanding the situation because he is in the way. Other times I bring it up myself for those same reasons - that we are too much in each others space and its muddying my thoughts.

He can't be my source of comfort when he is the source of the pain. I might need to step away for a bit to really think with myself rather than running to him in the same apartment. This is wise advice, thank you for mentioning it.

I can't tell my parents because they're both pretty unstable emotionally. My brother watched the fallout in front of his eyes because he was right there when it all happened and witnessed their flirting too (we were all in a group together that week). It feels like a fever dream. But yeah, he's been incredibly supportive and has his phone on loud if i need to call him at any hour of the night. My 2 best friends know as well and I have one more person in my life I've shared this with who is much older than I am who has opened her door for conversation as well. I feel I have good support outside this.

[This message edited by funnything at 9:16 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

May I ask if there was a moment where you felt a sense of peace, like she finally was becoming the person she needed to be for you and for herself? And what stood out to you the most from her healing herself that made you feel more secure to want to stay?

That's a tough question. I still don't know if I have a sense of peace over it. It still hurts like hell sometimes.

We have a lot of history and a son together. He's grown and out of the house now, so having kids at home wasn't really a factor. Even at that tho, the truth is I didn't want a divorce. But I decided what I wanted less was to live in infidelity and uncertainty. I was resigned and serious about it. I considered our marriage over and started calling lawyers right in front of her. I was very calm and quiet about it, which I think had more impact than being loud or excited would have. She knew I wasn't just bluffing.

Her reaction was my first inkling that it might be salvageable. She broke down in a way I'd never seen her break down before. She was almost hysterical when she realized I was really going through with it. Given her behavior over the the previous month it kind of surprised me. I let that sit for a couple of days and when she didn't walk it back I canceled the consultations I had set up.

Then she started being proactive and I started calming down a little bit. She sent a no contact message and blocked him on everything, but they still worked at the same location. Opposite shifts, but there was still some potential contact so she volunteered to put in for a location transfer at work. She'd been at the same location for over 20 years and was quite happy there, so her doing that was a pretty big deal.

Then the dumbass got himself fired and trespassed for reasons unrelated to the affair so she was able to transfer back, which is nice because it's close to home for us.

Her actions started aligning with her words and I was getting what felt like true remorse. She didn't shy way from talking about it, stopped being defensive, and owned all of her actions and words. She pledged to do whatever it took to repair the damage she'd done, and for the last 16 months she's kept her word. She's answered the same questions 100 times and once she came completely clean her story never changed. Well, her core story never changed. I learned more details as time passed, but nothing that changed the shape of the story or the things that happened in it.

She's been completely transparent with everything. I have all of her passcodes. Just knowing I have the access and the fact that she's not guarded about it is really enough for me so I don't snoop through her stuff. Tho she volunteers her devices every once in a while as a show of good faith. She's dealt with all of my triggers and mood swings and stubbornly refuses to let it sway her from her mission. To repair what she broke. It's pretty astounding really, given how d day and that first month went. I don't think she ever expected I would leave. Finding out that I indeed would really shocked her system and woke her up. There's some truth to the saying here. Sometimes to save a marriage you have to be willing to let it go. It applied in my case.

I don't think there was ever a moment where I suddenly thought "okay, I think this might work." It was a slow accumulation of evidence from her words and actions that eventually convinced me we may have a fighting chance. Probably about 6 months or so after d day. Her turnaround was pretty fast, complete, and unusual for a wayward spouse who had gotten in as deep and went as far as she did. From what I've been reading, not many change as much and as fast as her.

We're still not all of the way out of the woods yet. I have a lot to process and still have some rough days, but the good days are really good and the bad ones are fewer and farther in between. Marriage 2.0 is superior to 1.0 by almost every metric. If we didn't have this nasty dark cloud hanging over it I'd say we have an almost ideal marriage now.

I may eventually forgive, but I know I'll never forget. We have, however, been together for a long time. Nothing like this had ever happened before. She put up with a lot from me in the past so I'm willing to offer her the gift of reconciliation. There absolutely won't be a third chance, tho. I won't got through this ever again, and she knows it. She tells me almost every day that she's grateful for the 2nd chance and that she'll spend the rest of her life demonstrating it "for as long as you'll allow me to."

It's still a work in progress, but I think we might make it yet. It's actually pretty beautiful now, but man did it get ugly at first.