SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Glad to hear you had a great holiday IW.

Thanks for your replies Masks & w2b.

Well OW contacted WS a few days ago asking why he has now changed his mind about wanting a relationship with OC. She found out because his mum contacted her to find out what sort of contact would be available to him.

She was not very nice in her txts to him. I was there when he received the first text and helped him reply a little bit to her questions. It only lasted a couple of texts where he told her that he wants to be apart of OC life and be the best dad he can be. She didn't end up replying after he the second time he sent a text saying pretty much the same thing as before.

However I on the otherhand am not coping very well with it all. WS and OW never had an official relationship. Before I was dating him WS seen her a couple of times for you know what. He insists that she was only ever someone you'd go to for sex. And I do believe him as much as I can. Because he was trying to set his best mate up with her for the same thing. So I can't see that there would be any feelings from him to her if he was trying to do that.

I did express my concerns with him though about her having feelings for him and that it makes me uncomfortable. He constantly reassures me that he has no feelings for her nor has he ever had feelings for her. But I just see that if she does have feelings she may try to manipulate and I dont think I can handle that sort of rubbish iykwim.

So anyway things were going great between us up until those txts were received and it kinda makes me feel like I'm a little bit back at Dday :(.

I went to WS for some support. Told him how I was feeling, he reassured with I dont need to worry. He's never going to cheat again and never going to do anything with her. He cuddled me but during that cuddle I didn't feel any conviction in his cuddle. It was more of a I will cuddle you because I thats what I am suppose to do, not a I will cuddle you because I want you to feel secure. And I ended up just feeling alone "again".

His mum was being a great support too but then she sent me a message saying. "You know there is a saying, "Make peace with the past, so it doesn't spoil the future". And I dont know if its my mental state at the moment but that really offended me too so now I really can't be bothered even talking to her. Its like she's happy as long as her son doesn't have to feel hurt. Where as I need him to feel the hurt. I need him to feel my hurt, not his own hurt.

I just don't know how I am going to handle having the OW in our life. I don't know what she is going to be like. This is so much harder then dealing with just a case of infidelity. Life is sooo cruel sometimes :(

Totally understand MsSassy. As if infidelity isn't bad enough, the OC ensures that OW will be in your life, at least peripherally, pretty much forever. It's a cruel, horrible situation. I think the only thing that makes it bearable for me is that OW is several thousand miles away in another state. XH is undecided about what, if any, role he wants in OC's life, but right now it's looking like none, out side of CS.

Nobody wins, especially the OC who didn't ask for two selfish, irresponsible people to bring them into the world. Does the OW/OC live nearby?

I understand the dissatisfied feeling about the cuddle, but maybe WH was just feeling shell shocked by the texts and the reality of the situation. I know whenever XH gets new paperwork, or when he comes face to face with his actions, he gets really balled up and standoffish. It's guilt and shame. And it's almost like holding you makes him feel worse. That's just been my experience.

I know it's rough. There are some days I think this has to be a dealbreaker because it's just too much for one person to take.

(((MsSassy)))

I am sitting here with the DNA results and the baby is his. I feel like my whole world has just come crashing down. I know I said that I was going into this thinking it was his, but I still had a small chance of hope.

I am so angry and I want to lash out at the whore to ask her WHY THE FUCK DID SHE EVER THINK SHE COULD HAVE THIS CHILD WHEN SHE KNEW HE WAS MARRIED. I think I know answer, cause she wanted to be moved out of her mothers house and thought my husband would support her and they would be one happy family when she knew he was still married and has a child. What did she think I was going to be 2nd and my son too. But I would so love to hear from her. She has avoided me from day one, but I will have my moment in time with her.

She knows nothing about my husband, NOTHING. Who just sat here now doing all the fucking bills now managing our money between the house and his apartment since we are separate. FUCKING ME, that is who. And does she know that my husband has not written a check or paid the bills since we have been together for 13 years. And when we first met he was soooo in debt I had to help him get back on track and now he has an excellent credit score cause of me. He has always worked, but just sucked at paying bills. I have worked my ass off my whole life, and became a SAHM the last 4 years - WHY - because it was our decision for me to stay home and care for our son while he worked. And little does the bitch know, he is still paying all my bills and texts me when he is making a purchase and to ask if this is a good price for something. The sorry pathetic ass is probably still thinking "well now he has an apartment, I still have a chance" And all I can say to that is if that would happen, I would have the last laugh - she can move into a small apartment with all hard wood floors, no closet space and you know what I will even give my WS the 2 dogs just for shits and giggles. They are puggles and very needy. Oh wouldn't that home life be fun, LOL. And the apartment is 10 minutes away from me imagine me seeing her at the local Shoprite. Let's see how great the sex would be then.

I don't know about you, but I would think that before "whoops" I get pregnant and I was "on the pill" (she said her docter said that pregnancy happens a lot to woman on the pill - where did she get her pills from the fucking candy store and who the hell is this doctor and the bitch is 32) I would want to find out more about this man. She only saw him for what he portrayed himself to her as. This was all just an ego boost for him, when his wife was at home taking care of everything. Was the FUCK that good that you put all birth control measures in her hands and believed her. Your affair started on a lie - why would she not lie to you. Yes, I am angry at him too, but feel more hurt and betrayed by him and more of an anger towards her. I am so sick and disgusted right now. We are separated and at times I think if he is willing to do the work, not just the I love you's, and I am soooo sorry BS, but the real work, then maybe I would give him another try. But other times, I think why does he deserve another try. He is a child in a 35 year olds body still. Funny but when we first met, he was 22 I was 26 - one thing that I really loved about him was that he always made me laugh. Well I am not laughing now.

Thanks for letting me vent. Better that I get it out all here and not send her anything at this time for I do not want to lash out and regret my words later.

[This message edited by livelaughlove at 8:28 AM, August 31st (Friday)]

LLL I am so sorry. I remember how it was when our paternity test came back. I was so heartbroken. Please take care of you.

You have to do what is right for you. Don't let yourself feel pressured to do anything. Give yourself time.

My H and I do have a great R and are coping well about OC. I still have sadness. I have doubts about having another COM, about our finances,and sometimes mourning how our lives used to be, how "normal" things were. It is hard to trust, hard to get past the A, OC, and aftermath. You have to be a united front. Things are hard, but not impossible. This is a great forum with great supportive people.

(((LLL)))

Vent away as much as you like. I certainly can see myself saying those words of yours when WS's paternity test comes back. He does the test on Wed and then its approx 10 days to receive result. Just thinking about it now it really weighing down on me.

Altered - its good to hear that you guys are a really working through this. A positive story gives me hope.

Webmistress - the OW lives approx 1 1/2 hours away. So a little distance, not really enough though :(

Lots of love to you both xx

[This message edited by MsSassy909 at 4:10 AM, September 1st (Saturday)]

Hey Everybody! I hope you are all having a great weekend! (I get a three day weekend thanks to labor day... whats not to be happy about! lol)

(((LLL))) I am soo sorry you are going through those emotions all over again. I know exactly how that feels... we all do (unfortunately). I too "prepared" myself for the baby to be his, but held on to the possibility that she could not be his and I was completely distraught when she really was... and then went back to square one all over again when we met/saw the baby for the first time.

But it does get better, it does get easier. I'm not going to say that it will be all sunshine and lollipops, but it will definitely get better with time. Of course as it gets better there will still be plenty of emotions to contend with. We had my little bonus baby (my term of endearment for my SO's little girl) here with us for two weeks, and I definitely had my moments. See my SO joined the military and was gone for Basic Training for 6 months. While he was gone I had my bonus baby here with me 4 times, 2-3 weeks each time. It was just me and her! and it was GREAT! I didn't have any of those moments of sadness that I usually had when she was here with us before my SO left. I was happy! But this last visitation was the first time we had gotten her since he got back home... and I thought it would be just like it was when it was just me and her. But seeing him and her interact got to me. I can say not as much as it did before he left, but I definitely had my moments.

I am like altered in that my SO and I are doing great! We have experienced so much growth! So anyway, I just wanted to say it does get better... your relationship with your WS and (if you are open to it) your relationship with the OC too!

Now the OW... That is a totally different story. We had a good working relationship while my SO was gone, but it didn't take her long to show her true colors. Not to say it is true of all OWs, but the one in my life can not be trusted... she is very dishonest and manipulative. So I've learned my lesson.

Anyway, hope you all are doing well. Take care!

[This message edited by Masks at 5:38 PM, September 1st (Saturday)]

(((LLL))) So very sorry. Yes, vent away. We understand.

His mum was being a great support too but then she sent me a message saying. "You know there is a saying, "Make peace with the past, so it doesn't spoil the future". And I dont know if its my mental state at the moment but that really offended me too so now I really can't be bothered even talking to her. Its like she's happy as long as her son doesn't have to feel hurt. Where as I need him to feel the hurt. I need him to feel my hurt, not his own hurt.

I actually don't talk to my mother-in-law because of this as well. She wanted me to choose to either stay and get over it or leave and let it be. As long as her little boy didn't feel any pain. She wanted me to rug sweep, like every other time he cheated. While we have made significant progress, and while we are doing great in R...I won't lie it is RELIEVING when he feels pain (like when the OW contacts him about $). I NEED to know he hurts because I was hurt so bad. And I don't want his mommy trying to minimize the hurt!

I remind myself that frankly once the OC turns 18 and the financial obligation is over, the cOW has ZERO reason to contact us ever again. The OC can contact without her involvement, and we can legally see him with ZERO input from the OW. So I see an end for the OW. It's probably the only "comfort" I can get in this entire situation. That one day we can totally tell her to kick rocks and NEVER contact us ever again! I look forward to that day...

Hi ladies. So I was wondering how many WH have or don't have contact with OC? I just recently found out about OC and A 8 weeks ago. My WH has said he doesn't really plan on having OC be a part of our lives. As he doesn't really see her as his child. It was not wanted (condom broke- confirmed by OW) and he didn't like that she made a decision that would affect the rest of his life and an innocent child- without his consent. I am not sure how I feel about it. I mean. Ya it is MUCH easier not having OC in our live (they live 6 hrs away), but at times I feel bad for the baby. Although, I guess her SLUT mother is the one that should feel bad- it was her choice to screw a MM and then hope he would leave his family and start one with her.

Which she had the nerve to actually say to him!

So how do you ladies feel about that having contact or not? Is one way easier than the other? And I ofter wonder too, will she grow up and want to know why he didn't want to be a part of her life. Oh- why couldn't they just keep 'it' to themselves and we wouldn't be in this mess.

TTF3 - Sorry to hear this is happening to you too (((Hugs)))

Honestly having no contact would be easier on us the BS as we would avoid the constant reminder of the betrayal. But in my opinion it wouldn't be easier on the child in the long run. They didn't choose this and neither did we.

Initially when my WS told me my instant reaction was "You are going to have a relationship with this child". He grew up with his father walking out on him. At first he said he wanted nothing to do with her etc. I told him that that would make me respect him so much less. I know he has wanted kids and yes this child isn't with me :(. But I wouldn't feel right if I stepped in and denied him the relationship.

I know its going to hurt, its going to hurt like hell. Already does, but I do imagine it will get easier with time. I hope so anyway.

If he chooses not to be a part of her life it is inevitable that she is going to want to know why he didn't :(

For me, no contact with OC fills me with guilt. I feel very bad for a child who will have that anger to deal with, and rage at XH for creating this situation. I extra want to scream abuse at OW for being such a whore, and bringing a child into this world under such circumstances. Every time I think about it, I'm filled with disgust.

Right now, I think no contact is best. I've told XH that I will support him if he wants to be part of OC's life. But the truth is, he has so much to work through, and we still have so much to work through, no contact is really for the best right now. And of course, there's the issue of OW being a part of the package, which is totally out of the question.

My fwh has 100% NC with the OC. He has zero interest in any type of relationship at the moment, especially as long as the cOW is involved. Perhaps later on when the OC is more independent is what he told me. The cOW has lied on us (she claimed we were threatening her...kinda hard when we are 100% NC!), therefore we do not feel it is safe for our family to pursue any C. We have already spent $10,000 + on lawyers, and again this is with us NC! She has already made it clear she doesn't want my fwh to have C as long as i'm in the picture. She hates the fact that we are a family.

There are many reasons why NC is what works for us--most importantly the safety of our family because the cOW was out for blood. She said she was going to make my fwh's life a living hell, which in turn makes our lives a living hell. And for awhile there, she was, until my fwh took her to court for harassment.

I lived with guilt and grief for a long time. Cried myself to sleep. Felt awful and horrible for the OC. I too felt less respect for my fwh because of his choice to NC. My IC had to put it in perspective for me; see it as a sacrifice that has been made for our family to heal, to avoid the drama and potential legal ramifications, and to avoid the cOW's jealousy, rage, and BPD. Either way, the OC gets short changed because even with C, it's limited. And we are dealing with parental alienation too, so it would be confusing and probably even hostile on their end. This situation sucks...in the end someone gets short changed and too many people get hurt.

I have to remind myself that while the OC is innocent, so are my children. And me. And my children need my protection. While I know I would care about and for the OC (again, I told my fwh I would accept the OC if C was his wish), the cOW has zero regard for my children. She has already proven this. She has tried to take money away from them (by asking the courts to disregard them from my husband's income), she wanted my fwh to leave our family for her, she had zero regard while she was willingly engaging in unprotected sex and not giving a damn about his family. (and please don't think in this rant and rave that I have absolved my fwh of responsibility--he has paid the ultimate price and knows he is at major fault in this mess). This cOW has already taken enough; my husband has already caused us enough pain, heartache, and money thru his selfish actions. They come first. It may sound harsh, but it is the reality of the situation. So I no longer feel guilty.

The OC is not my responsibility. He is not my child, I legally have no say in anything (which we were reminded of with the whole insurance debacle). The only obligation I have is to my family. This is on my fwh's conscience now, not mine. I have had to do this in order to save my sanity, because I let it eat me alive. I lost too much sleep, lost too much of myself, and took time away from my own family dwelling on this. I had to put my foot down and stop my madness.

This is my situation. It is what it is, I have had to cope how I can, and I have had to make and agree with some tough decisions. I don't expect anyone to follow my path, and I know some agree and some don't. I share it so others can (hopefully) not feel the guilt and realize that every situation is unique. That sometimes NC is what is best. C, NC...all are hard, all are difficult, we all have our reasons for it. We have to do what is right for our individual families and situations.

Either path you and your family take...make sure you communicate about it, be supportive, and be upfront.

As far as answers for later, we have kept a journal to explain to our COM and the OC the who, what, when, where, how, and why of the decisions that were made. Kept all the court documents, the accusations by the cOW, etc. Whether it works or not, we won't know until later. But I told my fwh he needs to be honest yet sensitive to an OC who is probably going to be hurt, angry, and confused. We try to focus on the here and now, and will deal with the fallout of this as it comes. Because of the parental alienation the cOW has already done, and the fact she takes ZERO responsibility for her actions, we don't expect any contact from the OC anytime soon. We will tell our COM when they are much older.

(((to everyone))) No one will judge you here for C or NC.

IW - that sort of things is what really worries me with OW. I don't know if she decided to keep the baby as a way to get WS to have a relationship with her. And when he told her intially (when she told him she was pregnant) that he wanted nothing to do with her or the baby she realised that this wasn't going to happen.

And you're right. The OW in these situations are selfish. I would never pressure someone into aborting a baby. But she has also chosen to bring a baby into the world and that child will eventually realise the situation. She is setting that child up for alot of pain. This woman also has two other children too two different fathers who are also absent from the kids lives.

These OW didn't get what they wanted. They tried to manipulate the men to give them what they want and it hasn't worked. So now I think alot of them will still try to manipulate out of spite.

They really are very sad people.

Wow, thanks ladies. I still can't believe this is my life and there is an OW let alone an OC! But this is the reality.

I told my WH that I would support whatever decision he makes, but that if/when he intends on seeing OC, I will be there each and EVERY time. He agreed 100%. For now, he seems content with working on fixing us and out situation. And maybe down the road he will have contact with OC. He said, she won't know the difference anyway- which is true. I just feel bad for the little girl that wonders why he didn't want to be her dad, but yet has 3 other kids (one only 2.5 months older- and once on the way) that he did want to be a father too. And he is a great dad too. My boys love him so much. But you are right IW, either way, OC is going to be shortchanged. They live 6 hrs away. So he would only be able to see her here and there as it is. And currently he has no legal rights over OC, so its not like she could come to us for the weekend.

I feel OW is definitely volatile. She has said on numerous occasions that one day she will let OC know the type of person WH is and she will never want a relationship with him. And OW has told me several times, that he can just keep sending checks, cause that's all she wants from him. SHe doesn't want or need anything else. She is constantly threatening lawyers about every little demand, if WH doesn't jump on it asap. And has told him repeatedly that she wants him (and me) to hurt like she does. So for now, it may be better this way.

I wouldn't push abortion on anyone either, but I don't understand why anyone would choose this for their child. Although she clearly thought this would make him leave me (and his family) since he wasn't going to do it any other way. Thanks for letting me work this out with you. This OC this is a doosy!

I thought contact with OC would be easier than it is. For me, it has proven almost impossible. As OW was 29 years younger than WH she was same age as our children. THey struggle terribly with this. They want nothing to do with OC. OC is not more important than they are. So, if WH wants a relationship with OC it may mean losing his children from our marriage. OW didn't care at all about them during A. She told H to leave me over and over again. H believes 100% she got pregnant on purpose. OW lives several states away so visiting means WH going and staying there. To me, this always feels like he is cheating again on me and our family. Court was a disaster. Judge kept telling the two of them they need to coparent, to talk often, told H to visit all the time. Judge told cOW to send him pictures, videos and updates at least weekly. THen judge said, "who know as time goes on the two of you may get along better and then who knows what can happen with the two of you." All I am saying is this is a complicated situation and there are no solutions that work for everyone. My question, is why is contact with OC worth perhaps destroying our marriage, our family and our children? When I saw her at court it was so hard. She actually looked at me and smiled.

Rayofhope - until it actually happens to her she will never understand what it is like to be in your shoes. :( Thats just the way they seem to be :(

To today was DNA testing day. I spent last night with my gf in another town (WS was on night shift) and we went to a Michael Jackson tribute concert. It was great to get out, but didn't distract me from my feelings.

I returned home this morning and WS wasn't very receptive. Obviously he was hurting over today being testing day. But he still failed to realise that this is very diffcult for me to and failed to provide any sort of comfort for me.

I think I have finally realised that when times get tough, he isn't going to be there. He is going to be more consummed in his own pain to even step out and be there for me :(

Its very sad and heartbreaking. But I now realise that this journey is up to me and I can't rely on him to help.

Whether we pull through, I really don't know and right now, I really don't care. I'm just going to put me first and work on me. I'm not going to care about his pain. If he can't be there for me, why would/should I even care to be there for his.

It's not easy. The right way is never easy is it :(

What a life to experience :(

I feel OW is definitely volatile. She has said on numerous occasions that one day she will let OC know the type of person WH is and she will never want a relationship with him. And OW has told me several times, that he can just keep sending checks, cause that's all she wants from him. SHe doesn't want or need anything else. She is constantly threatening lawyers about every little demand, if WH doesn't jump on it asap. And has told him repeatedly that she wants him (and me) to hurt like she does. So for now, it may be better this way.

^^^I think people don't realize this. While it's hard talk, it's the bitter truth. The cOW in our sitch said she would make his life a living hell, which of course makes mine a living hell too. She has gone after his money, my money, anyone's money. She's mad that the OC is "just a check". Um, that's pretty much what she wanted and pretty much what she knew was going to happen. Is it sad? Yes. It's incredibly sad because yes, the OC is going to grow up and wonder why our COM got so much and him so little. I work--I make as much $ as my fwh does so our income/resources are higher vs. the cOW who only lives off of the CS and who hasn't worked in almost 5 years. The OC only lives an hour away, actually less than 15 min from my fwh's job. He knows he will never ever meet the cOW somewhere with the OC without me or someone appointed from the court present because she has already lied that my fwh and I have threatened and been hostile to her and the OC (all while being NC...go figure). She's the type to lie to make us more miserable so not giving her the chance or the pleasure. She already has done this! We wouldn't put it past her to call the law. She can't be trusted, even in a public place (she told my fwh he was only allowed to visit the OC in her home...alone...yea freaking right!).

The cOW in our sitch too has also started parental alienation, telling the OC when he was an INFANT at the courthouse that his daddy is a deadbeat, she's going to teach him to be a man and keep it in his pants, blah blah who knows what else she is saying blah. My fwh will continue to pay the court mandated amount until the OC is 18 (our state is 21 but only under special circumstances, and while it's not stated if it's a child out of wedlock it almost always ends at 18).

Sassy, my fwh was also no help/no comfort around the dna testing time and results. He tried, but I actually didn't want his comfort--I actually wanted to kill him so any closeness made me cringe. Afterwards he said it was hard because he felt like there was no sorry enough in the world to fix it, make me feel better, make it go away. I did tell him later that I did need the reassurance and support as much as he did. I couldn't give it to him because of my rage. MC helped with that, made us realize that no matter what we are in this together--even if I left this still affects my life emotionally, financially. I did find that time to find myself and him finding himself did help in us finding each other.

I too had to be told and then later realize that the OC was no more special than my COM. He shares just as much DNA as my COM. While his situation sucks thanks to 2 selfish people, I have to look out for my COM. We know that C with the OC would be a nightmare, partially because of the financial piece of going back to court (the cOW gets cheap to free representation because she's "poor", we have to pay full price was was quoted $7500 for a custody hearing), mostly because of the worry of her flying off the handle. We had to ask the tough question--is it worth putting our family through more hell now, or do we wait for the OC to be older, with less involvement from her? So much time and energy has been spent on this, and took so much away from our family. We live in a state where it's extremely pro-mother. She has already said she will never relinquish anything less than full custody without a fight. The OC is very young, and doesn't understand what's going on now. It took us to leave on a long vacation to realize that we need to spend more time, energy, and money on our own family, try to heal, try to move on. It does hurt me to say that because in my heart I feel bad for the OC (and I know my fwh does too), but there is really nothing much we can do without putting our family more in harm's way because the cOW is really unstable. The best we can do is document, journal, and hope the OC has a decent life and that the cOW is making sure he is getting what he needs with the CS.

I share this so no one feels guilty, ever about their decisions and choices. You really have to do what's best for your family. This IS a sucky, horrible, situation for the BS, the COM, and the OC. There is no winner.

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 5:08 PM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

I think I have finally realised that when times get tough, he isn't going to be there. He is going to be more consummed in his own pain to even step out and be there for me :(

Mssassy - my husband is the same way, where I feel he is so self consumed with his pain that mine does not matter. When the test results came back, he did not even ask me how I was doing, all he said was that now he has to figure out how to coparent. And how bad of a father is he since he has not seen this OC yet. REALLY - feeling bad, the damn child will not even know he exists. Is he that stupid, but I feel it is all about him and how he feels. He needs to give a fuck more about his son, that was planned and wanted. But I guess again cause I am not flipping out/crying to him that he thinks we are ok and since he is still paying all the bills that we are just fucking fine. I wish the OC was hours away but unfortunately he is only about 30 to 45 minutes away.

He even made a comment how upset he was cause his sister won't talk to him and now she has a nephew (SIL and I are really good friends, I am very close to his family and they are just devastated where his mother wants to cut off his you know what). That blew me away - Really - he just expects us all to welcome his mistake with open arms. Trust me, if we R then of course I will be open to this OC and so will his mom and sisters no matter what happens between him and I, but DNA just came out. I had to and have told him does he think before he speaks and does he hear the self centered stupid shit that comes out of his mouth. After he says it and I say what the fuck - he then takes a step back and uses the "I am just so confused and with all this hurt I have caused...." Poor fucking him, should have thought about that before he continued to sleep with this whore, who wanted to get rid of me and his son. Would help if he asked me how I was doing and not just act like all is ok. It is not ok and I know too that I realize that maybe he will never be able to be the man that I need him to be.

In a way I am glad we are separated, cause even though we both say we want our marriage - I am not seeing too much yet from him. Bits and pieces here and there but that is it. So I would rather take this time to see if there is a future cause this door can not be a revolving one any longer. And our son, the child that was planned and wanted is my main concern. Even though he gets upset at times that his dad is not here, it will be easier in long run this way if I find that we can not R.

First affair everything was rugswept - sorry buddy, but not this time. He sucks at communicating and either he is going to learn how to be open with me, or there will be no future for us.

We have our first MC session Monday. Cause I will not sit back to wait for him - I need answers and will use this time to see if there will be a future for us. And this will be my decision, not his. He made the decision to have this affair - he says he still wants to be married to me, well that decision is now mine.

I am so thankful for this forum and especially for all of you who know exactly what this feels like. Sucks we need to be here, but this is now our lives. And like IW said, "made us realize that no matter what we are in this together--even if I left this still affects my life emotionally, financially." So whether we stay together or D - this OC still has a tremendous effect on us.

[This message edited by livelaughlove at 2:06 PM, September 6th (Thursday)]

Ugh, evidently today was "bring your exhusband of 15 years' illegitimate OC to church day", because I happened to look at FWH's XW's Facebook, and XW took OC (4) to her church with my stepDs (all adults, we are in NC with them due to their own bullshit involving OW, which breaks my heart even more than the A).

I know I shouldn't look, and it has been weeks and weeks since I have, but omg XW, just get over it already!! (If you read in my profile, the person most excited about my FWS's A was his XW, who hated me for turning her boyfriend in for sex abuse against mu stepDs). XW is more obsessed with OC and the affair than anyone else involved, she NEVER got over it. It's the one thing she clings to, and likes to rub my face in. It is sickening.

OW likes to dress poor OC like a mini stripper/wannabe beauty pageant contestant, so OC was dressed in zebra print, for church. OW has her in 100% zebra or leopard print, or 100% pink camouflage. Paired with the fact that OC has the worst "stripper name" I've ever heard in real life ("Word meaning fate" + "Blue gemstone"), just not a classy mix for the poor girl.

God help these kids, cursed with slutty OW as mothers.

Luckily for us, OW found someone else (a 19 yr old engaged to his pregnant high school sweetheart) to get pregnant by and marry. She mostly leaves us alone, now it is just XW dragging it out. Dday was over 5 years ago. We have been in R for just over 5 years.

I hope all your OW's find someone else to focus their attentions on, and leave your families alone.

[This message edited by Want2help at 10:26 AM, September 10th (Monday)]

I always like to repost the OC handbook for our new members and reminders for those that need them. If there is something that you think needs to be added, that has worked for you, please feel free to share.

Thanks to Scooter 3377!

Below are some helpful starters for "newbies":

OC HANDBOOK (courtesy Me&My3)

1. Dna results must be established and your H should hire an atty immediately if he hasn't already done so. DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.

2. If you have children of your own with your h take steps to protect them and yourself by filing for a pseudo legal separation; because in the case of child support, he who files first gets the most (in most states). It doesn't matter one bit which child came first only who files for support first. So if she files first she gets an amount based on his entire income and if you then get separated/divorced your child support would be based on a percentage of his income less what he's already paying her. Makes sense to protect yourself by filing for a separation that way if you and your husband divorce you will benefit more and if you stay together it will keep more money in your household. Even if you're financially self-sufficient you should still consider setting up a child support order because in these uncertain times you never know what tomorrow will bring i.e. corporate downsizing, etc. It never hurts to have that order in place even if you don't need it now. Also consider having alimony set up in the separation papers as it can also reduce the ow's child support order.

3. Visitation with possible oc or sending money to the ow for the oc is a no-no until dna has been established and the courts are involved. Everything should be done legally as it's the only way to protect you and your family. Trust me on this one. There are couples out there who have been dealing with an oc for several years. Visitation, money, etc. only to discover that the child is NOT his. They are embroiled in a huge legal battle because the wayward husband "assumed" parental responsibility of the child.

4. Depending on which state you live in your h could be responsible for back child support, internment (costs of labor and delivery), the costs of the dna test if it's positive, current medical coverage and also a portion of child care costs. Any money that passes hands before a court order is made or before an attorney draws up a legal document signed by both parties may be considered a gift and may not be deducted from the back support amount owed. Some states base child support payments on both the husband and the wives income (another good reason to file for a legal separation). In other words the 'household income' is what they use to determine those payments not just the husbands income.

5. Any decisions to have contact with the oc if it is indeed your H's should be made by both of you. He should not be imposing his wants upon you if you want no contact. ANY decisions made regarding the possible oc should be made jointly. Your H should not be having any contact with ow unless you are both completely involved. That means no phone calls, no text messages, no emails, no meetings, nothing and NO SECRETS! PERIOD! But if you're smart--DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.

6. Work on your marriage first and foremost before you even consider having contact. A weakened marriage will only be further weakened if you throw the tension of an oc into the mix. Get into marriage counseling and IC if possible. You can look around this board and see how difficult reconciliation is without an oc so take things slowly and think through them very carefully.

7. Contact with oc is a very personal choice. Many women are able to make the decision to go down that road while others are not. There is a lot of drama that goes along with contact, it's not an easy path to choose. Also consider that visitation can be started at any time down the road. If say in two years you are then open to the idea of contact the child won't have suffered if your husband wasn't involved for the first couple years. It won't even know the difference. ADDED: If you do decide to go for joint legal custody, do it in the beginning, it is harder and more expensive to get later on.

8. Remember that if the oc is indeed your husband's child the ow will no longer hold all the cards. If the two of you want contact she can't prevent it. She can't prevent you from being involved, etc. She can't call all the shots, only the courts can. Once she decides to attach paternity to your husband she is forfeiting a portion of her parental rights.

9. Make sure that you dot your i's and cross your t's in the form of legal documents. If you're adamant about no contact, have it in the papers. If you want to prevent her from making contact with your children or extended family put it in the paperwork. If your H is responsible for a portion of child care costs require ow to only use a licensed child care provider which will prevent her from having her momma watch and claim she's charging $250.00 a week when she's really charging nothing at all.

10. Protect your financial assets such as homes, etc. If you don't have a will get one now. If anything were to happen to your ws the ow would be able to fight you for a portion of everything if indeed the oc is his. Many people create a will that specifically excludes the oc or they leave the oc some small stipend such as a dollar so that the old "he forgot to include me" argument can't be used. If you intend to have a relationship with the oc should dna confirm that it's your H's then this is all a moot point.

11. If you and your spouse do decide to have contact document everything. Keep a notebook and list everything possible in it from the time the oc is picked up/ dropped off to whether or not they were dirty when you got them from the ow. This information has come in very handy for others in the same situation that ended up having to fight for custody, etc and it's one more way to protect yourself.

ADDED:

12. Consider removing your spouse from your joint bank accounts, stocks, bonds and removing them as a beneficiary of your life insurance policies, as OW/OC could try to attach an interest in any holding that has your spouse SS # on it.

ADDED:

13. If you are NC with OC but may consider a relationship later down the road or want to be prepared for when the OC gets older and may want to meet your family, some members have put together letters, cards, pictures for OC and held them until an appropiate time. Especially in situations where the OW has made it very difficult to have C.

FAQs wrt OW/OC:

Q: What if there is an OC? Submitted by PHOEBE

A: This complicates so many things in a marriage I cannot answer it all but will hit on the highlights. There are many questions that need to be answered when it comes to dealing with an other child. First you must find out if the child is the H with a DNA test? Seek out a family attorney to consult with. This is a must because a family must know their rights. Too many get empty threats from the OP involved and they do not know any better so tend to believe many things untrue. Try to protect yourself and your children of the marriage legally.

Does the married couple want contact or no contact? NC or C are not easy, keep in mind wait to make an informed decision. I want to make it clear it is usually easier to heal a marriage without contact with the OP/OC initially. Contact can always be established later on after the marriage is repaired or far along as it can be in the healing process to consider contact with the OC.

It is a personal decision to include OC in your household or not. Neither choice is good or bad. Consider that it may be great to have the OC involved in 2 separate families that are amicable or it may be detrimental to the OC to have to deal with 2 hostile environments. Many times the OC was not planned and the adults involved cannot get along, take a step back and think long and hard about the child's best interest.

The OC is no more important than the COM or the BS. You do not have to change your lives around to accept anyone. I know you may want to fix everything for your Spouse but you must let him take responsibility for his own actions. DS this is some of what I have to say about this if someone has already answered it you can add it. This is a complicated situation with too many variables

Q: How do I deal with continued contact with OW because of OC? Submitted by Bee-Trayed

A: The decision on how to handle an OW/OC situation is a deeply personal one. Some BS find that they have it in their hearts to make the OC a part of their lives; others do not. There is no right or wrong answer to this situation. However, when it is the WS's choice to have contact with the OC then certain "battle" lines must be drawn with the OW, to facilitate the re-establishment of trust in the marriage.

This is best accomplished by establishing a clear understanding between the BS and WS of what will and will not be acceptable or allowable boundaries. Here are some hypothetical:

NC whatsoever with OW/OC

Contact with OC possible but with BS present

Neutral zone for visitation; no visits at OW's home, etc.

Legally drawn up contract stating acceptable parameters for OW to contact WS.

These are just a few sample suggestions. Remember, once there is an OC involved, and paternity has been established, BOTH parents have rights. Make them work for you. It is unbalancing and counter-productive to find yourself on the defensive with the OW.

Establish, with the assistance of your spouse, what your "comfort zone" and rights are with the OW, then send a clear and UNIFIED message to the OW of what you will and will not tolerate. This helps the BS to re-establish some control over a situation that is tragic for all concerned, but in which they, along with the OC, are also a victim.

Q: What do we tell our kids about OC? Submitted by Bee-Trayed

A: Many BSs express concern over telling their children about the existence of the OW/OC. Fear of emotional trauma to the COM, damage to the parental relationship between the WS and COM, or other negative consequences relating to the A abound. How, or if, a BS decides to divulge this information is also highly individual and neither right nor wrong. Family dynamics, the ages of the COM, and other factors unique to the BS's family environment influence the decision.

Relying on one's instinct is probably a good place to start. If there is any uncertainty as to the affect disclosure may cause, then it is probably better to wait until a more opportune time arises. Children are resilient, but that does not mean they should be unnecessarily wounded or burdened with this knowledge.

Examining one's motives for exposing the OW/OC's existence may be one aspect to consider. Preparing them for a possibly unpleasant encounter with OW/OC at a future date might be another. Knowledge is power, but not if it creates a destabilizing environment for the COM. Consider all options and then take your time making the decision. Choosing the right time or place, and striving to neutralize the emotionally charged nature of the subject, can make the difference between a "successful" disclosure and a devastating one.

Hope this helps.

Thank you