SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Heayheart,

She blames some of the drinking on our relationship, and that she wasn't that happy. I get it, but alcoholism runs in her family. Her mother left her father for another man while drinking. I decided I had to make 1 last stand, tell her how I feel. I adore and lover her with all my soul, my feelings haven't changed. I explained that it's not fair that she spills her fears, releases her demons to a group of people at AA and not with me.

Blaming is what alcoholics do, but it is not your fault that she drinks. As far as her relationship with someone in AA, I don't think that is supposed to be happening. Isn't that what they call 13th-stepping it? You have a right to boundaries with regards to other men. I think that what she shares at her meetings stays at the meetings. The other members most likely will call her on her shit. You don't need to.

I hope you are getting counseling for yourself, and that you are checking out Al-Anon too! It has been a huge help to me, and continues to be.

Heayheart

You should update us. Sounds like she is trying, You might see how her actions, and not her words, lead you. Give it some more time if you feel it is worth it. It might be.

Posted this in another thread, but it applies here so:

My wife is an alcoholic. She had a 6 year affair, that I found out about in August of 2012. She has been drinking for a decade.

I could not figure out why, she made me feel like it was MY Fault and the responsibility was on me to WIN HER BACK. Didnt seam right.

Then I found out a month ago....she has been having an affair for last two years. In fact, she never skipped a beat. Just changed guys.

She has serious childhood abandonment issues, and needs constant validation from men.

I had to work with her bf, to get her into detox, as he had, and still has, all the influence on her. As I sit and type these words, I cannot help but feel like people are reading them and are thinking that Im completely blind. No, co-dependent maybe, but not stupid. I didn't leave after the 6 year, as her Dad was dying of Cancer. Didn't feel right to do that...I had hoped time would allow things to heal. Then, after this latest discovery, I found out how heartless and selfish she really is. She is in a 30 day detox....I do not have unrealistic expectations, that she will emerge saying "OH my God...what have I been doing??" and beg me to give it an other chance (And this time she MEANS IT!! hahah)

Just wonder...if your cheating spouse was a drunk while they were cheating...and then they get sober....then what?

Reading some of your posts, has really helped me.

Im pretty determined to move on, unless she says something that really convinces me I shouldn't.

Even then, I would be suspect it is nothing more than a pacification exercise.

So...thats how I see it. Thoughts?

Update.

We have had 4 MC sessions so far and seeing progress. I think WW is starting to open up in the sessions, she has been brutally honest throughout the entire process. A few weeks ago she asked for a separation to work things out for herself, that attitude has changed to now feeling closer to me. I am going to IC myself, working on my feelings and releasing control of things overall. I believe that my actions, and my inability to describe how I was feeling shut her out. I will not except responsibility for her putting the bottle to her mouth, or the affair. I will however take responsibility for my own actions, and how her years of drinking has pushed me into a protective emotional space.

There has been a lot of damage, she is 90 days sober! Thats great, but its early. She admits to thinking about the other guy sometimes, but those thoughts are less frequent now. She loves the AA meeting that he attends, and after I explained my feelings about her seeing him (anxiety, fear, helplessness) she has

arranged her meetings to avoid him. Separating the sober wife from the active drinking wife is hard to do. I love her soul, her ability to shine, not the drunk she became. I am optimistic, and cautious at the same time. I forgive the affair, I don't forget it or ever use it as ammo in a heated discussion. But I think about it! The IC is helping me, its changing my perspective on life and what I want out of it. Im going to choose to be happy, and start down the road to doing that. I have invited her to join me, thats all I can really do. The rest is not in my hands.

Me 44

Her 39

5 month EA, DD 5/3/2014

2 Wonderful Kids

Thanks to all on this forum that have shared their stories and explained some of the terms: ie; "functional alcoholic" etc. I've been married for almost 15 years together for close to 18. I just filed for divorce after dealing with a PA 6 years ago and now an EA (I think), she does live in a different state two time zones away so maybe it's an EA. My STBXH was a great guy when we met, yes we both liked to have beers when we worked in the yard and so on but somewhere at some point the drinking in his case started to get serious. He no longer drinks beer he drinks a 5th of whiskery a night. I know that his PA started after a happy hour with his work people and then also was carried on around bars and alcohol themed parties. In the first few years after his PA we did OK but his drinking got more serious. There were drunken tirades and he has gotten meaner with his insults and arguing when he hits a certain point in his boozing. I would just leave the room and then the next morning he would remember nothing of his asinine comments. In the past couple of years he has gotten really bad, several alcohol related incidents that has caused his job to be affected. I started spending more and more time at our cabin to get away from him and even his phone calls have gotten increasingly nasty. I was at our main house several months ago and after I left the room after he picked a fight, I heard him talking to a woman on the phone. His newest "fling" is it more than an EA? I don't know but I do know that when I caught him on the phone with her at our cabin I threw him out and saw an attorney. I filed for divorce Thursday and other than a great sadness for what once was, I know I am doing the right thing for me! Since I know how drunk he is when he's slobbering on the phone to his new "phone a friend" I can only assume that she's either desperate or she is also drunk when he calls.

I am lucky because I have a place that I can stay and get away from him but I still feel sometimes like the good person I knew is in there. I know it's not my problem now and eventually I will get over the sadness that I feel in knowing what a lost soul he is. I have told him he will be dead in five years and still he drinks a fifth a night. I have talked to his family about his issues and the first thing the tell me is that I drink too. Yes I do, but to point out the difference between a social drink and drinking to blackouts every day is beyond them. Tragically even though I've tried to tell them how bad he is? He will stop over there and drink with his dad all afternoon and then drive home from there. Just so very sad to me.

I'm sorry to ramble and I really don't expect anyone to read all of this, I know it's just more of the same that others have posted. I have read most of the posts here and I really appreciate all who have shared their stories, it really has helped allot. Thanks to all.

He's been sober for 75 days, but claims all his infidelities were because of his alcoholism. Is this true? Because I don't buy it one bit.

Eh, my opinion is that blaming it all on alcohol is an excuse. Sure, it can push the process along faster but it's still an excuse. I've known alcoholics who've never cheated. I wish I had better advice :-(

From one of the first posts on this thread:

in the mind of an alcoholic they haven't done anything wrong. It is always rationalized so that they don't own the problem.

And, yes, it can even be the alcohol that's the problem. It can be anything other than him/her SELF.

My former GF was a miserable sot when she was 24. It didn't matter what the problem was, it was due to someone, or something, else.

She stopped drinking about 6 years ago, but even now, at the age of 67, she STILL blames others and circumstances for things which are CLEARLY her own doing.

Even now, when I have not lived with her since 30 years ago, she still is in "TT" mode. Except, that her "trickle" even runs uphill.... there are greater embellishments to the excuses....

When I saw her couple years ago, I recalled an incident in which a married man she had an affair with showed up at her house at 2:00 AM for booty call while I was there. 1971.

OMG.... she spun this yarn about how he was only a friend she worked with, and how she had arranged with him to stop by in an attempt to make me jealous and cause me to "have a reaction"....

Of course, she had totally forgotten that I had an extreme reaction, I went home and didn't come back...but that was no surprise, the history of most things which happened between us had been rewritten....

What I learned from this GF I had when I was 19 was the prime reason I did not seek to reconcile with fWW (married when I was 31). I had learned from 12 years of observation of GF that people who don't "own" their problems never change.

[This message edited by tfkeel at 8:47 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

Just stopping in to offer a little hope. Sunday I celebrated 11 years without a drink, drugs or sex outside of my relationship. With vigilant effort change is possible.

Just stopping in to offer a little hope. Sunday I celebrated 11 years without a drink, drugs or sex outside of my relationship. With vigilant effort change is possible.

This is an amazing accomplishment. I applaud your DAILY vigilant efforts!! You're strong.

I posted in the JFO forum (http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=537875), but this thread has really helped me gain some perspective on my troubles. My WxGF has a problem with alcohol. The night of her ONS with OM she was black out drunk. She told me two weeks later and was very remorseful (seemingly). We broke up but still have feelings for one another. She is now on the other side of the country, although I will be nearby in the coming months.

Due to a previous relationship with an alcohol abuser, I thought WxGF's drinking wasn't so bad and that blacking out or getting too drunk every couple weekends wasn't so bad. She is not a daily drinker and only drinks to excess in "party" settings where she drinks more than she intends and can't control her drinking.

Since we both decided we needed space to heal and grow we have not been in contact for a month. I miss her so much and still love her, but I know reconciliation is a pipe dream. I don't want to be a crutch for her, but I want to be supportive if she tries to address her problems. How do I do that? Do I just cut her out of my life? I've started reading Codependent No More and I know I have codependent tendencies. How do I support someone I love without sliding back into codependency?

[This message edited by Racer13 at 10:07 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

At the risk of sounding like an ad, my advice is to look into Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. I wish I could explain their concept of "detaching with love" because it's a very useful tool. They're the best place IMHO to help explain alcoholism/addiction, codependency, etc. If you're unsure about face to face meetings, there is a lot of info online. I know of an online nar-anon group and I'm pretty sure there are some for Al-anon as well. I urge you to try a meeting or two. There are LOTS of people out there dealing with this stuff with a loved one. It's not for everyone, I know, but it's worth checking out.

My story: WH and I met 11 years ago in a bar on a blind date. We both drank and enjoyed it. We got married, despite that my dumb ass found out about an EA. Almost one year into the marriage, further EA with the same skank. I chose to forgive him that time, too. He seemed to turn things around each time, doing all the right things to show he was remorseful. I forgave that one too. Fast forward 11 years, we are married with a 7yr old son. I had quit drinking except on occasion because I had matured and knew my son needed at least one stable person. WH, however, kept drinking and it kept getting worse. I have allergies and not much of a sense of smell, so I didn't realize how bad it was getting. He would get really drunk a couple of times a week, and drank beer almost every night. I just didn't realize how much. I notice he's texting a lot, but I think it has to do with some of the international work he does. I know something is wrong, because we barely communicate. I had given up trying to get him to talk to me. He would rather spend time with his buddy around the corner. I have felt completely alone for 2 years, at least. Then, 5 days before Christmas I notice him putting his phone face down right after picking it up because he doesn't want me to see it. I gather my thoughts before marching out there and snatching his phone away from him. I see that he has texted this...girl...she's the daughter of his buddy. She's 28, 16 years my junior. She has always had a reputation, sending out vajajay pics at 15, sleeping with multiple guys and being preggo at 17. There are 300+ texts between them. He manhandles the phone away from me before I can see more than just a few of them. I completely compartmentalize (co-dependence anyone?)because I love Christmas and don't want to ruin it for my boy. I think, this might be the last one where he believes in Santa! I continue to compartmentalize because I just can't deal with it much. It's now April. I have asked him a couple of times to see the phone and messages. Each time he says no. I'm sleeping in the guest room and basically going through the motions. Finally, he concedes to show them to me. They are disgusting. Mostly him slobbering all over her with all of the things I have been aching to hear from him. She's an amazing stay at home mom, while I am just a lump. Never mind that his home is spotless, he has gourmet meals prepared for him nearly nightly, and he doesn't have to do anything but take the trash out.

Granted, this girl lives far away, but the fact that he made such a fool of himself is sickening. She gave him just enough bait to keep him coming back for more. She did send him one picture of herself wearing only a shirt. They both concealed it from her Dad, his buddy, who is a really nice guy.

We start MC with the therapist of his choice. He agrees to NC and any other demand that I have, including access to his phone, etc. He says and does all of the right things. There are a few red flags, but they are also things that can be legitimately explained away. i.e. he has to close his home office door frequently because of the type of work he does.

Fast forward another 3 months and I am visiting my parents 2.5 hrs away. I can't explain why I have this bad feeling. I drive home to surprise him and...nothing is wrong. He's on the couch alone, not drinking, not doing anything. I still have that gut feeling, though. The next morning I try to access our cell phone records online and am having trouble getting access. He says "I'm sorry you feel like you have to check up on me." Such sincerity, such remorse. I say "just let me see your phone." There is nothing in the text records, nothing in the email. Then I check his web history and holy shit! A secret email, CL posts for when he has been out of town, or me. Hundreds of messages and fantasy emails. He has NOT been in NC with her. Not only that, but he has been in contact on a regular basis with a couple of other girls as well. I am sickened and disgusted. We have literally wasted hundreds of dollars in therapy for fake R. I tell him I'm done, he can do what he wants. As soon as I am professionally licensed in this state, my son and I will be moving out. I tell him that he needs to go to an AA meeting, right after he goes and fucks himself. (On good days, I still smile that I said that) For the first time, I think he sees that I utterly mean what I say. He goes to an AA meeting that night and for 3 of the next 4 nights. He comes home with the blue book. He reads. He cries and says he's sorry for days afterwards. I have seen him cry exactly twice throughout our entire relationship. I tell him I'm sorry too. Sorry that I didn't leave his stupid ass the first time it happened. Sorry that I ever gave him another chance. Sorry that my son has to be hurt by living in a broken home because of my stupidity. Sorry that he has had the opportunity to make me miserable for 10 years. He says he can't believe I didn't kick him out that first night. He thanks me for letting him stay. Granted, I'm still sleeping in the guest room, but until I can get a job and work, I have NOTHING. No gas, food, or housing $.

Today, he is on day 25 of sobriety. I am going to Al-Anon to figure out wtf is wrong with me for staying that first time, or the 2nd. I know why after that(son), but one person can only take so much abuse. That's exactly what it is, abuse. The emotional abandonment, the making me look like the bad guy because I won't let our son go with him when he is drinking, badmouthing me to his misogynistic buddy. How many more shovels of shit is he going to try to force me to swallow? He swears he has changed, but he hasn't been to a meeting in 2 weeks. He cut ties with his drinking buddy. He leaves his phone and emails available to me. He is present for our son, and for me, and trust me, I have not made this easy on him. I tell exactly what I think, when I think it. It ain't pretty. He just takes it and hugs me. He says he beats himself up daily, but I never hear about that. I told him I want to hear how beats himself up, that way it saves me the trouble. I know, that's unhealthy, but I am so pissed off! Underneath that, I am hurt beyond belief. He made fun of me with that little skank. He talked about my paranoia. He says now that he thinks it all had to do with his drinking. He blamed me for everything so that he was justified. He says he told them whatever they wanted to hear just to try and get some. He says he has never physically been with anyone else except for kissing and a hand job with one girl. Yeah, right, because your track record makes you totally believable.

So my questions are: Is he just rug sweeping? Is there ever a glimmer of hope that someone can actually change? Is he just appeasing me so I won't kick him out? Do I cut my losses and try to have a happy life and set an example of a healthy person for my son, away from his dad? Or do I rip my son's world apart? I feel like, as with voting, choice A is shitty, and choice B is shittier. I know, no major decisions for 6-12 months. I just don't know if I can wait that long. I feel one way one day, another way the next, and still another the following day. I'm so sick of this emotional roller coaster!

Anyone?

Hugs, Lally!!!!

I feel like, as with voting, choice A is shitty, and choice B is shittier. I know, no major decisions for 6-12 months.

You are absolutely right about choice A and choice B. Both are shitty. That's the thing about being in an addicted family. It sucks. Leaving has bad parts; so does staying. Acceptance of that is a good start. Actually, it's a great start!!

Yes, yes, yes to Al-Anon. I know they say to give it six meetings to see if it works for you. For me, I was told by my IC that she thought I needed 90 meetings in 90 days (like the addicts). She was right - I did. I recommend trying several different Al-Anon meetings to see which works best for you. I still go to Al-Anon meetings now, even though I'm divorced and don't see my addict, because it helps me to live a better life. I now know how to deal with chaos and with my feelings.

I see a red flag or two in your post with the other women and craigslist ad's. My X wasn't just addicted to alcohol.

One of the shittiest parts about your choices is that your child is affected either way. Seeing the current living situation isn't very healthy, but divorcing means shared custody and you may worry when he's with your husband. It's hard to navigate.

Lastly, the waiting to make a decision six months to a year doesn't apply if there's abuse, so watch out for that, too. I was shocked at the peace once my X was out of the house. It's hard to recognize how bad things are when you are in the middle of them.

Again, hugs, {{{{ Lally }}}}

Thank you, Compartmented. I have been going to Al-Anon for a few weeks now. I'm going to a meeting tonight, in fact. I thought the first 3 steps were easy peasy, I but the more I'm reading, the more I realize that I'm not even solid on step 1. I keep trying to control what he is doing, how far along he is. It's none of my business, really. I just get so upset some days and the last two have not been good. I have denied my feelings for SO long! I am not doing it anymore. He is trying, really trying, but this is also the person who called and left me messages about how he couldn't wait to see me and he missed me not 20 minutes after posting an ad on CL. That is sick and disgusting! WHat kind of monster does that? I have suspected an additional addiction, but I don't know enough about alcoholism, much less sex/porn addiction. He suspects as much too, according to the browser history. Ugh!

Tomorrow my husband goes to court for his second DUI. He was doing well with the sobriety until his dad died. In November I wrote him an intervention letter (because talking to him in near impossible) telling him I love him, but he needs to stop drinking. He had a royal fit! Denied that he was drinking again. Denied, denied, denied! I must be insane or on drugs if I think he is drinking.

Anyway, he gets a second DUI and is angry at the world. I told him to stay with his mother. I don't want to see him until he is sober. So he is staying at his mother's house and angry that I kicked him out, but his lawyer said it is the best thing for him because he is now living in the county that he got busted in. Now he was eligible for a sobriety program that would avoid jail time. Tomorrow we find out if he will be allowed into the program or not.

If he doesn't he may be facing between 5 days to 5 years in jail (because it was two DUIs in less than 7 years he is classified as a habitual offender). If he does get into the program and avoids jail he is basically on county arrest. He is not to leave the county without permission and he is not allowed to sleep overnight in any home but the address he is claiming...which is his mothers. Me and the kids don't live in that county. So he can't come home. This is a two year program.

I don't know what to feel about this. I want him sober, but a two year forced separation is fairly long. The kids go to a charter school near his mother's house, so we could see him daily. The program has strict rules such as random home checks, daily alcohol/drug testing, counseling, AA and other restrictions.

I feel so disconnected from everything right now. It is weird. I think I finally realized I can't help him and this is up to him to fix his life.

Has anybody (or their spouse) gone through a Sobriety Court program? Did it work?

[This message edited by DMS88 at 3:15 PM, August 12th (Tuesday)]

I thought the first 3 steps were easy peasy, I but the more I'm reading, the more I realize that I'm not even solid on step 1.

I cycled through steps one through three many times a day for a long while! You really have to alter so much about how you think about things, that just understanding the concept isn't really enough. It's really great when you recognize the times to apply things in your life, that you've spent months learning. Try to take deep breaths and stay in the moment. That "One Day at a Time" slogan was for me, many times, one breath at a time.

I want him sober, but a two year forced separation is fairly long. The kids go to a charter school near his mother's house, so we could see him daily. The program has strict rules such as random home checks, daily alcohol/drug testing, counseling, AA and other restrictions.

DMS, these seem like really strong consequences for his actions. Consequences are about the only thing that can make him want to change.

That is a long separation. Take care of YOU and the children in the mean time. There are Alateen meetings for teenagers. You don't have to make up your mind about anything before you are ready.

Thank you, Compartmented. Your replies have been really helpful. I too wish this board was more active. We are in the process of doing something about that, right? I certainly have enough struggles to share. Maybe someone can learn something, even if it's what NOT to do! lol

I feel much better today, not like I'm spinning at the end of the tether like I was the past few days. I have been reading Co-Dependence No More and listening to some recovery podcasts. I went to a new Al-Anon group last night. They talked about boundaries, which is no coincidence, since I was pondering boundaries yesterday. I have realized that not only do I have a poor concept of boundaries, but I have an all or nothing approach to them. I don't know how to enforce boundaries. Not in a way that controls others, but what to do for myself when those boundaries are crossed. For example, I cut my mom out of my life a few years ago because she couldn't respect my boundaries. She is always making excuses for men's behavior."He's hurt because of _____." (my A-hole brother and her alcoholic bf are the prime candidates. My dad, her ex, was always the bad guy despite the fact that he DID NOT drink. He saw the effects it had on his severely alcoholic dad). Gee, ya think some of my enabling and co-dependence is learned? It sickens me to think I'm just like my mom.

My goal now, is 1. to learn how to set boundaries and enforce them for my own health and well being. 2. learn how to articulate them in ways that are clear and understood without being harsh and offensive, because really, who listens when they are being spoken to offensively? Wish me luck! Maybe I will report back with my progress.

Thanks Compartmented for your comments. I am doing things one day at a time. I am taking care of the kids. I pretty much always was their primary caretaker. He was always disconnected from the family so I don't know if this separation will affect the kids. When he was in rehab it took three days before one of the children noticed he was gone.

He went to court today with the plea deal: he would plead guilt in exchange for Sobriety Court. The judge said he would need a few days to review his records. He goes back on Friday to find out if he is going to be accepted and if he does he goes back a week later for sentencing. This drags out so long.