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I am always against drinking and driving. he had two beers. Then my son drove. The whole trailer thing made it all obvious. But it was the need for two beers. WE had purchased a house warming gift and cash gift for my college son. Its his first apt. ANd my H couldnt get to the store fast enough to buy beer. NObody even knew where or why he left. He bought cookies and beer???? We had just stopped at station/grocery for gas on the way. It was very impulsive. ANd single focused. It was strange. ANd he wasnt even there to see son open gifts. He so self centered. I am wondering if he has focus issues. These seem to be worse since mid-life. We have been married 29 yrs. He is so different. I analyze everything, read everything. I dont know what is stress, alcohol, EU, ADHD or OCD,. There are too many choices. ANd they look alike. Hes in his own world with his beer. Just pours it and smiles, and tastes it, its heaven. ANd so unaware of the outside world. Its happening alot. I have mentioned to him in calm normal conversation, I really believe he is a alcoholic. His face was shocked. He didnt say a word. Now, he will leave, in midsentence, when I or anyone else is talking, and go get a beer in frig. Same example. He is in his own world. DEcided to get a beer. Hes not even aware somebody is talking. Beer is on his mind. So single focused. I had to start the same conversation over 3 times. Twice he walked away cause he was making beer, once he walked away to go get another beer. I stopped talking. I wall up. I just want to let him have his own experience. I cant fight this fight ontop of EA or A. im really exhausted.

Brit..... you know this is not about you. It hurts, it feels directed toward you, but its not you. Its about escaping. He escapes thru alcohol, and when he see OW, he doesnt need alcohol, because she is also an escape. But its still escaping. He has to learn what he is escaping from. What pains him. Its not you. Its guilt, shame, self esteem. I hate we have to be kicked while we are down, and they have choices every day and choose the painful ones. ANd we have to study, learn how to cope afterward. ITs just not worth it really. It seems so childish to me now. I dont make any crazy decisions like WH do. And I can surely use an escape right about now.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 11:15 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

OK, need some centering here. DS had 19 mos of sobriety, drank, DWI (first one ever) seems to have gotten back on track, dealing with aftermath, upped his meeting attendance, etc. But, he's being an a$$hole to us. Rude, short tempered, avoiding us etc. I get that he is embarrassed, angry at himself, blah,blah,blah, but the main issue is that I'm going away next week and I was depending on him for a few things, cat and house sitting mostly. He's being so nasty, I don't know if I should just disengage totally. Any insights?

Watching your kid hurt is harder than dealing with infidelity...

Could be 'dry drunk' behavior.

Stopping drinking is not enough.

The alcoholic really has to do a lot of work on himself/herself to figure out how to deal with the world without relying on alcohol and how to become a better person.

Are you sure he's going to AA meetings? Does he have a sponsor? Has he ever gone to IC?

Have you tried going to ALANON meetings?

here is a description of a dry drunk from AA:

The term "dry drunk" therefore denotes the absences of favorable change in the attitudes and behavior of the alcoholic who is not drinking, or the reversion of these by the alcoholic who has experienced a period of successful sobriety. From these conditions, it is to be inferred that the alcoholic is experiencing discomfort in life.

The self-destructive attitudes and behavior of the dry drunk alcoholic are different in degree but not in kind. The alcoholic, when drinking, has learned to rely on a deeply inadequate, radically immature approach to solving life's problems. And this is exactly what one sees in the dry drunk.

ANALYSIS OF DRY DRUNK BEHAVIOR The alcoholic who rationalizes their own irresponsible behavior are also likely to find fault in the attitudes and behavior of others. Although not denying their own shortcomings, they attempt to escape notice by cataloging in great detail the transgressions of others.

The classic maneuver of the dry drunk is over-reaction. The alcoholic may attach a seemingly disproportionate intensity of feeling to an ordinary insignificant event or mishap.

Some alcoholics who experience the dry drunk seem to know all the answers, are seldom at a loss for words when it comes to self-diagnosis. Their knowledge is quite impressive, their apparent insight, as opposed to genuine insight, is convincing.

CORRECTIVE MEASURES: #1 Go To Meeting. Those undergoing a dry drunk lead impoverished lives. They experience severe limitations to grow,, to mature, and benefit from the possibilities that life offers. They lack the freshness and spontaneity that genuinely sober alcoholics manifest. Their life is a closed system, attitudes and behaviors are stereotyped, repetitive, and consequently predictable.

Alcoholics learn early that humility and a power greater than them- selves are the bedrock for a genuine and productive sobriety. An unusual measure of self-discipline must accompany the ego deflation process. Needed is self-discipline in honesty, patience and responsibility towards the recovery process [and acceptance of their disease]. [To improve long term goals of sobriety be aware of mental stressors, get more involved in the recovery program, get active in the 12 steps, get and use a sponsor, talk things out.] Hopefully. they will begin to appreciate the ironic folly of those alcoholics who think life has suddenly become manageable again; whose sanity is beyond question; who see no need of turning their lives over to a power greater then them- selves; who find personal inventories unnecessary since they are seldom in the wrong and are no longer subject to the embarrassing need of repairing the wrongs they have done.

When dry drunk alcoholics awaken to this irony that they, still unmanageable, still powerless, are the ones who have made this remarkable "recovery," they may feel sufficiently mortified to want to change.

Thanks. That's scary stuff. And I don't know the answers to much of it. He is going to meetings, he MUST, required by the monitoring agency he has signed up with, who also does random blood and urine tests, has a new sponsor.

I had a talk with him. My point was, we are leaving this to you, this is your problem, your recovery. We will honor your request to stay out of it. But our worry is that he might hurt himself instead of reaching out for help, as he seemed to be isolating. He was comfortably adamant that he would not hurt himself, that he recognized that things could be a lot worse. He confirmed that he was back on track. I told him I respected his privacy, was there if he needed me, and would let go and let God...

Prayers are flying from this girl.

scaredy cat-

would he consider going to IC as well as AA?

maybe if he had someone that he could talk to one on one it would help with the depressions symptoms, isolation etc.

And you would feel safer because you would know that he is talking to someone about his worries etc.

Bumping this thread for those that may not realize it is here.

It may be helpful after New Year's Day and the holidays for those dealing with this issue.

H and I took a long weekend trip. While making the drive, we discussed the boundaries I need as far as alcohol. I pointed out to him his alcohol problems, what he needed to do, what was required for me. And I indeed believe its getting worse. It was not planned, it just came out. Overflow. He not only has issues, he is uneducated and in denial about what an alcoholic can be. As long as he doesnt get shakes, he must be ok. He was angry, but held a decent conversation about it. I didnt realize how uneducated he really is about this. Denial for awhile.

I think he heard me. He is making great efforts. We actually had a great time afterward. Which is shocking. No drinking. And it was New Years Eve. His anger turned into agreement.

I realize this is not enough. I know it will relapse. I know this struggle is along road. (both my parents were Alcoholics)Our old habits of living are returning now that we are at home. His work travel will return very soon. But, he heard me. He seems to hear me these days. ANd questions himself. Thats a small step. Then he shows me articles of doom and gloom of future social security and future of US economy. Not sure if hes pointing out his stress or a reason for me to stay. He believes the world is in alot of trouble. I was happy for the small acknowledgement and great weekend.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 2:19 PM, January 6th (Monday)]

It's great that he is open to discussing these issues with you.

Talking about it and admitting that there is an alcohol problem are the first steps.

I just want to say thank you for this thread! I found out about my WH's short-term online affair almost 60 days ago. This has been an awful roller coaster ride. Thankfully the day after I caught him he turned himself into treatment and has begun recovery. I come from a family with recovering alcoholics, so I am familiar with the programs out there. I am just angry at myself that I did not utilize the tools I grew up knowing to deal with the alcoholism's affect on me and our children.

Now I am dealing with his new sobriety and his infidelity. I have been angry for so many years over his drinking and when I found out about his A all my anger compounded into rage.

I read through both threads and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for sharing. It is helping me deal with both issues and to heal.

Has anyone's spouse been successful on a moderation plan? For how long?

Thanks

silent scream-

I am ACOA ( my mother is an alcoholic) and like you say ....I should have known better.

But, also like you -I put up with a lot of very bad behavior from my FWH.

And again...like you- the LTA was the cherry on top for me.

I was done.

I kicked him out of the house after d-day and filed for divorce.

This was finally ...what helped my FWH hit bottom.

He was extremely remorseful after d-day, threw the OW under the bus and never looked back and threw himself into working very hard to save the marriage.

We were separated for 6 months but during that time he got sober, went to AA, went to IC and went to MC.

He is a changed man and in many ways our marriage has changed for the better.

It can happen.

I only wish that it had happened years ago so that I could have enjoyed being in a sober, healthy marriage.

You have that chance. You are both young with many good years ahead of you.

Take a look at some of the books that I have suggested on this thread. They have helped me understand my husband and myself and our family dynamics.

Gutfeeling- I know people that have tried moderation but IMHO it does not work.

Maybe someone else will come along and be able to give you their opinion on this.

You have that chance. You are both young with many good years ahead of you.

njgal480

Thank you for your post. It gives me hope. I am just struggling. But, I will say Alanon is really helping me right now. I am starting to think there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

*Keeping Fingers Crossed*

To gut feeling

To a certain extent all A's control their drinking to keep their BAL at a level they are comfortable with. Or they control by drinking only at certain times. But for an A true long term moderation cannot be achieved because their body processes alcohol different from a non-alcoholic. It has been documented that the founder of Moderation Management, Audrey Kishline, gave up after 6 years and joined AA after killing 2 others while driving under the influence. True moderation can only be practiced by non-alcoholics. If you read the book "Under the Influence" this will open your eyes like it did mine.

One year sober.

Sunday made it one year for me with sobriety. SI has been a big part of my program. Helping me with my thinking problem. There are some incredible people here. Thank you DS and the crew for this place. It so transcends the sum of its parts.

Congratulations Steppenwolf

Now the real work begins

Congrats Steppenwolf on one year!!

Reading this thread today has been a real eye opener - especially the entry about the "dry drunk".

I'm 9 weeks post d-day and still in limbo. My WH has been sober for nearly three years. His rock bottom was staring death in the face in the form of cirrhosis. Miraculously, he has made an almost full recovery and is now in the best shape of his life. He was in AA when there was still a chance he needed a liver transplant but as soon as he was "better" he stopped going. When he was still sick, I started to see some humility in him but now that he's cheated death, his attitude has changed to one of invincibility.

I stuck with him through all the drinking and bullshit that went along with getting sick and so the PA with his exGF was a slap in the face to end all slaps. Of course, it's all my fault. Some days it feels like he's ready to go start a shiny new life away from me so he doesn't have to deal with any of the hurt he's caused with his drinking and now with this A. I wish I had realized the benefit of AA while he was in it and encouraged him to stick with it.

Congrats Steppenwolf! I think you deserve a congrats every day you've been sober! One year is awesome!

[This message edited by silentscream13 at 3:09 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

Wow silentscream13 - our stories are eerily similar - our ages almost the same, my d-day is one day before yours, OW is also 47 year old exGF, and together and married the same amount. Small world??

KittenLittle:

Very scary how small!