SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, as I sit here after learning that another person I know did this to someone they cared about, and review my own story, all I can come up with is that all of us, for whatever reason we give it, did this for our gain. Our motives while varried and endless, were for selfish reasons. We forgot that love is giving. We gave ourselves permission because we needed this or that. Isn't that the pure basis of this.

Look at Barbra Walters, she says it was exciting and intense, well of course it was, it was what you wanted it to be.

As I sit here with the realization that humanity is screwed up because of all of this and because of the statistics that state over 50% of men and 45% of women will be involved in an EA/PA before the age of 40, I realize that we have become a world of me and I rather than a world of we and us.

Our focus is on the here and now, not on what our actions will produce tomorrow, next week, or years down the road.

We are selfish, and sinful! It all comes down to that!

Sorry for the rant, just needed to vent a bit.

BS here, hope you don't mind.

This thread has been so enlightening.

I wonder, is it possible to be a person of high self esteem and still need constant attention and validation from others?

The reason I ask is that my WH is someone who is always fishing for compliments, about everything he does and everything about him, but yet is always talking about how great he is. Does that make sense?

For example, he will stand in front of a mirror and talk about how fantastic he looks.

He is constantly talking about how much smarter he is than anyone he works with.

He spends and inordinate amount of time primping, and pumping up, and loves to wear tight fitting shirts, etc.

He's only gotten worse since he's gotten older. He colors his hair and his eyebrows, buys expensive face creams and is talking about getting collagen injections.

He's always been the star of his family, the center of attention.

The only self esteem problem I've ever thought he had was that he was too full of himself.

Now I wonder, could it possibly be low self esteem and he's just over compensating?

Do any of you other WS's who feel they have low self esteem constantly talk yourselves up? Would you admit it if you did? LOL!

I wonder, is it possible to be a person of high self esteem and still need constant attention and validation from others?

A person can have high confidence and low self-esteem.

My H is great at his job. If we were to D today and someone asked me about his competence for any job I would tell him that he is the person for all positions. He comes across very confident and sure of himself. He has low self-esteem.

Sicofitall-

He probably does have low self esteem and that is his way of compensating for that.

I want a boob job so bad, at times, I feel without one, I am inadiquet (sp). I also like to always look as good as I can and look hot. Why? 1st I want my husband to be proud of the woman he has. 2nd, I need to do that because on the inside, I feel so ugly that I can compensate on the outside. If I look good externally, then nobody will see the bad inside and if I look good, it makes me feel like I have more confidence.

I would suspect that the high self exteem does not exist. May seem like it, but he is compensating for something.

Yes, I too suffered from low self-esteem my whole life. Verbal abuse from daddy sure didn't help any. But what caused it mostly was the fact that I was overweight even in elementary school. I was teased all the time even through middle school. I trimmed up some in high school, but by attending a small private school everyone still remembered the "old me" and it was tough to find boys who would pay attention to me other than just being friends.

In college, I got LOTS MORE attention and honestly I didn't know how to handle it. Got asked out on lots of dates by stangers, but never went on any of them. Then I met my husband. I fell in love with him so completely and he loved me for who I was. We were/are perfect for one another.

After we dated for several years, I put the weight back on, but he still loved me. He loved me even though I was possessive and controling. I was terrified he would leave me for a skinnier more attractive woman.

We got married, and all was wonderful. I lost and gained weight a couple of times, but around our 9th year of marriage, I lost if for good. I looked great (look even better now), and I craved the attention from other men. I needed that validation. I guess I felt like some others that when my husband complimented me he did it out a sense of obligation not because he truly meant it. Now I see how stupid and riduclous I was being. He ALWAYS thought I was beautiful and sexy even when I never did.

And now look at what I have done. Destroyed the one person in the world who loved me more than any other and only wanted to make me happy. It's almost too much for me to bear sometime. I still can't believe I did this, but I do see what led up to it. I just simply ignored the signs and made terrible choices. No excuses ever...just sorrow, shame and pain.

Thank you for this thread. I hate it that we are all in such agony over this, but it helps to know that others share it with us. We can now only grow from our suffering and the suffering we have caused others. We can't grow unless we learn.

Why did I do it?........

Well because I allowed myself to become a stupid, self - obsessed, selfish prick is why. I put what I believed where my needs ahead of my wifes heart, my childrens future and sought out the attention I wanted from someone other than my wife. In the end to me its that simple. I have spent the better part of the last 14 months going over my life and all the paths that led me here. They all hold a place in the journey to being an ass but we live in a world and a time where we all know of the available outlets and services to help us deal with issues....... I certainly have been aware of them anyways, but rather than have some personal responsibility and seek out the answers in a constructive and healthy way I let myself fall from grace and honour into a mire of destructive behaviour. And I am four times the idiot because I should have seen where I was going. I have been an addict, a cheater and an ass before. But rather than acknowledge that I was letting myself follow old paths I just jumped on the bus and road them.

In summary I did it cause I chose to not pay attention to the blindingly glaring reality that was right in front of me. I did that. Not my parents, not my family, not the people that have abused me, not anyone but ME

He probably does have low self esteem and that is his way of compensating for that.

I want a boob job so bad, at times, I feel without one, I am inadiquet (sp). I also like to always look as good as I can and look hot. Why? 1st I want my husband to be proud of the woman he has. 2nd, I need to do that because on the inside, I feel so ugly that I can compensate on the outside. If I look good externally, then nobody will see the bad inside and if I look good, it makes me feel like I have more confidence.

I would suspect that the high self exteem does not exist. May seem like it, but he is compensating for something.

Thanks SRVF.

I never even considered this until I read this thread.

It does make sense. Even though he is very confident of his abilities and proud of his looks, he does tell me what a rotten human being he is (it's been hard to argue about that lately) and he has become very depressed about having missed out on so much of our sons lives, now that they are grown. It's almost like he's jealous of my relationship with them for some reason.

I'm constantly reassuring him that he was a great father and that his sons love him, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

I guess that's all part of this mid-life crisis, but it could also be a deep down self esteem problem.

The funny thing is we are always talking about self esteem in regards to me, which I know is a problem of mine. Maybe it's about time we talked about his self esteem.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread. I feel like I've really learned something from this.

[This message edited by Sicofitall at 1:13 PM, May 5th (Monday)]

FallenSaynte- Put a female spin on these words, and you have spoken for me, too.

Well because I allowed myself to become a stupid, self - obsessed, selfish prick is why. I put what I believed where my needs ahead of my wifes heart, my childrens future and sought out the attention I wanted from someone other than my wife.

I'm having a hard time with this soul-searching, finding the cracks in myself journey. I want to analyze it, I want to find my weakness. But honestly, even though I can find causal factors buried in my past, you are totally right-- it was my stupid, selfish, egotistical decision to have the A, to reveal a side of myself to another man that should have remained sacred to my wonderful, wonderful husband...to direspect my vows, my commitment, and my husband...to put my kids' futures in jeopardy. That was my stupid dumbass fault.

Thanks for the 2x4.

Well yeah, I can go back in my past and find tons of things. Hell I could probably write a book, could probably use zillions of hours of therapy etc. My dad cheated on my mom, there was abuse, a history of mental illness in my family, there is this that and the other thing. And while all that needs to be addressed and looked at at the end of the day it was ME that did this to us. Everyone here knew that what they were doing was wrong in one way or another. I have my doubts that when asked what we were doing any of us came out and said "Well I just got back from fucking so and so" or "I just sent so and so the nastiest text ever. Wanna read?" or whatever. Cause no matter how much fog or anything we still knew it was wrong. And thats what we all have to face and deal with. That we did something that somewhere within us we knew was not right and that we made the decision to go ahead and do it.

Why the attention of the OP is more "validating"

a post by DL in the general forum

It's helped me greatly.

I've been thinking along the lines of the other thread - about self acceptance. Infidelity really does revolve around an inability to achieve self acceptance IMO. This is what lies behind the need for external validation - it is even what is behind the inability to accept the validation of one's spouse. It's the key.

When we lack the ability to accept ourselves (our whole selves, flaws and all) - it's because we hide from our flaws. We try to deny them, overcompensate for them, ignore them, and run from them. In a real relationship, one that lasts years - we share living space with someone day in and day out - our own imperfections come out. If we haven't accepted the fact that we aren't perfect, if we strive for perfection (continually failing - because no one is perfect), when we refuse to accept our imperfections, it is very hard to believe that the person who sees us in the morning at our worst, morning breath and all - really loves us for who we are. If we can't love ourselves for who we really are, we will never really be able to believe anyone else will either.

The reasons affairs become addictive, the reasons the "validation" of the OP feels real - is not only because the relationship is new, it's not only because they don't smell our "morning breath" or see us at our worst - it's also because the very moment we are aware of the nature of the affair (the horribly monstrously selfish action of cheating) we also receive "acceptance" for doing this terrible thing - from the person doing the terrible thing with us.

Not only did the WS not believe in the acceptance of other loved ones in their life BEFORE they cheated - they also are about to commit an action so heinous that they virtually guarantee to destroy the acceptance of the loved ones in their life for doing so - but the OP in front of them accepts them anyway. They have a "secret bond" that only exposure can break - because they are co-conspirators in self destruction.

It's all about the ability to like one's "mental self image". Until an affair is exposed, the WS's "mental self image" as a result of the affair is an "falsely self enhanced" image. They like the way they "look" to themselves by having an affair. But on DDay, when the horror becomes known to others - the "mental self image" of having an affair becomes horrific. In an attempt to "minimize the horror" of the self image a WS has on DDay - the OP is thrown under the bus. Whatever false acceptance they found in an affair is exposed for what it really was - desperation for a better "self image".

The lying after DDay is a desperate attempt to avoid facing the horror of what really happened reflected in the BS's eyes. It's a futile attempt to "preserve" some semblance of an "image" the WS can live with.

When a WS can't enforce NC because they're afraid of "hurting the OP's feelings" - what they are really afraid of is seeing disapproval of the OP - a "nonapproving self image" reflected back at them.

It's all about the WS's attempts to achieve some kind of acceptable mental self image in all the wrong places. Instead of looking within, and being able to accept their own imperfect selves - they disown their imperfections and go about trying to find acceptance outside of themselves (which is impossible without self acceptance).

Embrace yourself along with your flaws. It is impossible to change ourselves for the better without first accepting who we really are - flaws and all. One can't change what one refuses to face.

In order to believe in the validation our spouses offer - we have to believe we are worthy of it. That's impossible for a WS when they know the horror of what they are hiding. There is nothing wrong with the "praise" the BS is offering, the "praise" of the OP isn't better - the difference lies in the horrific knowledge the WS has of their own actions.

I appreciate so much everyone's contributions to this thread. It does seem that we need to open a chapter of Attention Addicts Anonymous. hehe

I have been spending the last couple of months focusing on my Relapse Recovery Plan and getting into the habit of putting my family first. It is sad to think that NOT being selfish is a habit you would actually have to overcome, but in my case, it is. I spent so much time treating myself, and doing what I wanted to do, and telling myself I deserved it, I put very little energy into my family and home. And now that I am, I have to admit, it feels wonderful! But it is still a stuggle.

Please continue to post, Everyone! Let's not let this thread die!

With much gratitude,

ScarletA

[This message edited by ScarletA at 1:23 PM, May 20th (Tuesday)]

I guess I would fall into the low self-esteem category. The high and validation and ego-stroking I got from the OM was amazing..ours was mostly an EA. At one point, as we began to email, text and call one another more and more, he texted me and asked, "Are we cheating?" That question should have horrified me!!! But it did not. Yes, it felt as if we were in on a big secret together, and it felt wonderful..at the time. Now I see it for what it was. Horrific. Another question he asked at one point was, "How can we do this if we are the people we say (or think) we are?" Another question that should have shaken me. But somehow we managed to get past those questions and continue on. I agree with the "DL" post. ..."They have a "secret bond" that only exposure can break - because they are co-conspirators in self destruction."....

I was a co-conspirator in self-destruction.

bump

Just wanted to thank ScarletA for starting this thread! It is an eye-opener for me and has helped me look more closely at my issues of low self-esteem and external validation...still working on these in IC.

bump

Very interesting...bump.

my apologies. post removed.

[This message edited by itspjw at 11:19 AM, December 16th (Tuesday)]

It is sad to think that NOT being selfish is a habit you would actually have to overcome, but in my case, it is. I spent so much time treating myself, and doing what I wanted to do, and telling myself I deserved it, I put very little energy into my family and home. And now that I am, I have to admit, it feels wonderful! But it is still a stuggle.

Good for you, ScarletA, and thanks so much for your honesty !

[This message edited by lemony.2008 at 6:18 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

I have just read this post, not having seen it before as it is a bit of an oldie...but someone bumped it so I got to read it.

I wanted to quote someones two posts in this thread and although it looks like he hasn't been around for a long while..I just wanted to say well done for standing up and saying what you did and making no excuse about why you did it other than you were selfish and thought just of yourself.

I am not posting this to say that people don't have reasons for the way they deal with things, I just read his posts and although he admits to having had problems in the past,they weren't to be used as an excuse for why he did what he did. It struck a chord when I read it and I wanted to commend the bloke for posting it and making no excuses for why he did it other than it was what HEwanted to do. No other reason other than pure selfishness.

FallenSaynte

6:50 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008

Why did I do it?........

Well because I allowed myself to become a stupid, self - obsessed, selfish prick is why. I put what I believed where my needs ahead of my wifes heart, my childrens future and sought out the attention I wanted from someone other than my wife. In the end to me its that simple. I have spent the better part of the last 14 months going over my life and all the paths that led me here. They all hold a place in the journey to being an ass but we live in a world and a time where we all know of the available outlets and services to help us deal with issues....... I certainly have been aware of them anyways, but rather than have some personal responsibility and seek out the answers in a constructive and healthy way I let myself fall from grace and honour into a mire of destructive behaviour. And I am four times the idiot because I should have seen where I was going. I have been an addict, a cheater and an ass before. But rather than acknowledge that I was letting myself follow old paths I just jumped on the bus and road them.

In summary I did it cause I chose to not pay attention to the blindingly glaring reality that was right in front of me. I did that. Not my parents, not my family, not the people that have abused me, not anyone but ME

10:46 PM, May 5th (Monday), 2008

Well yeah, I can go back in my past and find tons of things. Hell I could probably write a book, could probably use zillions of hours of therapy etc. My dad cheated on my mom, there was abuse, a history of mental illness in my family, there is this that and the other thing. And while all that needs to be addressed and looked at at the end of the day it was ME that did this to us. Everyone here knew that what they were doing was wrong in one way or another. I have my doubts that when asked what we were doing any of us came out and said "Well I just got back from fucking so and so" or "I just sent so and so the nastiest text ever. Wanna read?" or whatever. Cause no matter how much fog or anything we still knew it was wrong. And thats what we all have to face and deal with. That we did something that somewhere within us we knew was not right and that we made the decision to go ahead and do it.

[This message edited by timewilltellUK at 6:41 AM, March 1st (Sunday)]

wow scarletA. I am a WH and you summed it up so perfectly! Thanks for putting it out there.