SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You've been getting great advice and seem to be doing surprisingly well.

Keep vigilant, expect her to take the A underground. My WW got a secret email account while sending the NC letter.

Also, document everything. Like all those times she abandons your children to see OM, everything you do to take care of them etc. If you get into a custody fight, it might come in handy.

Wishing you strength brother.

You have the right path of how to handle this laid out in front of you. Keep on it. It can be hard when she is promising things like its over and she is going to try.

Please go see the attorney today no matter what she says. Get the info you need to understand how this can play out and how you get the upper hand. You really are in a position of power right now of you can function at a level where you disconnect a bit.

Plan on taking control at MC and simply state what you need from her to be willing to R and make this work. If the counselor is worth a damn they will stop her from stomping her feet and pouting. She is delusional right now, so expect her to think any requests you make are unreasonable.

I do have a friend that used Cordell ad Cordell but only after he D'd his wife and got screwed majorly in the D. She was a cheater and they had 3 kids and were in significant debt and she chose to work part time. He ended up having CS and Custody terms rewritten with C&C. He has primary custody, the marital home, and no alimony because she has the ability to support herself, just chooses not to. She on the other hand lives in mom and dads basement and the kids dread going to her place. So it can work and work well.

Stay strong stay detached and brother bet your paycheck on her continuing this thing. She Is DEEP in the fog. Stop at radio shack today when your done with the L and get a VAR( voice activated recorder) get a GPS unit hide them in and on her car. That way when she does go to see him or talks with him you will know an you can confidently tell her you've had enough.

((((and strength)))

I just read your post and I'm really sorry that you are going through all of this. My heart breaks every time I hear another story of betrayal. I would read the info about the 180 - it seems to work really well for people who's WS is not remorseful. I have 3 young kids (9,6,&2) and I think the 2 year old has actually been the most perceptive. I know where I live, there is a law about the family home and abandoning it. My brother almost lost his house because of it because he moved out temporarily while his cheating wife stayed. Anyway - I would skip the marriage counseling for now - probably not worth the money, but if you have a good counselor, they may work with her. ALWAYS do what's best for the kids, but remember, that isn't always staying together. Good luck - but you can take control of this situation - be strong!

Not a great day so far.

I saw evidence of text messages with OM last night. Asked my wife about it this morning and she said she never promised to stop talking to him, just stop seeing him. So she claims she will stop seeing him for sex but will continue the long phone calls and texting. I told her I was hoping for NC because we cannot work on our issues with a third party in the marriage. She claims it is impossible to give him up completely so that is that.

I guess at least I should not have to suffer through the nights of her leaving to be with him and coming home late so I guess I can hold on to that.

Saw the lawyer this morning. I am in a no fault state so the fact she has had an affiar really has no bearing on our separation (my recordings are not exactly kosher either so they wouldn't be useful as proof anyway). I earn more so I stand to and will lose more than her when we divorce. The best I can hope for with custody would be a 50/50 split. Basically, from a legal stand point, I have no leverage.

My best bet at this point is pretty much to go along with what she wants, continue to co-habit and hope we can come up with an amicable way to split.

I feel like life would be so much easier if I felt like she does and did not care about our marriage anymore. If I had no feelings about it, it would not bother me that she is seeing him and we could just go about this in a reasonable, unfeeling way. She keeps saying that when I get to the point that she has reached then this will be easier and maybe she is right.

When I heard their conversation from a few nights ago, one thing they were talking about was how it would be easier if I was seeing someone else also, and throwing out names of women that might make sense for me. The truth is there is a part of me that would welcome that. My logical thinking knows it would be a terrible idea but there is a part of me that is just desperate for some kind of, any kind of, connection with someone. Just some kind of hope that I can make that connection again. Our marriage hasn't had that in so long but I always thought we could get it back. Now I know that it wont be with her and I just cant see right now how I will ever find that again.

I live in a no fault state as well. So, the WS has no accountability.

Take care of yourself. I filed for divorce in January. I left the house - the title was in his name only and now live in the house where we are jointly on title.

One of the things that I had to look at, was what was I teaching my son about relationships and love. We are their first teachers. Your kids know that there is something going on. By staying in the house with WS and accepting the situation, that she is free to come and go as she pleases, maintain contact with the OM, what are your kids learning?? I am not saying this to make you feel guilty, I know that I had enough guilt to go around when I first found out about the affair - none of it was deserved by the way.

As a parent, we only want to do what is best for our children. Sometimes that means making those really tough decisions. Separation and divorce do hit the bank account. I do not have the standard of living I had before. But, there is a roof over my head, food in the fridge and my self-respect is intact. I am living in integrity now. No more lies.....

((hugs)))

Scareddad - I am so sorry you are having to deal with all of this. It is so hard especially early when you are still in shock of it all happening.

You are getting some great advise but I wanted to offer you a different perspective to think about. When I read your posts I feel like your WW is putting you in a position that you are compromising and negotiating. This is unfair and my suggestion is you don't play her game. You (and her) have made it a condition that she doesn't see him anymore but she interpretes the rules that she still gets to communicate with him. I think you should think about making it very black and white with her and her choice is either she goes full NC with him or you let her do whatever she wants. Right now she is staying at home trying to look like a good mother. She also gets to carry on a perfect little fantasy relationship with her OM where there are no fights or real life issues. Heck they are even talking about setting you up with someone - why? so that it doesn't make her look as bad as she really is if you are doing it too.

My suggestion - tell her either she puts full effort in it or let her do what she wants. No compromise. If she wants to go out every night with her OM, let her, let her show how she plans to put him first over her kids. Then document it. Treat her like a co-habitating roommate if that is how she is going to act. This is not going to be easy but I encourage you to not compromise and settle for whatever seconds she tries to give you.

^^^^^^^this^^^^^^

Plus this.

Don't you DARE lay down and be a welcome mat for your cheating spouse. Your kids are learning from what they see and is THIS what you want your kids to grow up and be like?

Dad.....so you are going to lose money in the Divorce. IT'S. ONLY. MONEY.

What's more important is how those kids are going to grow up. Start documenting all her actions regarding the OP. This will show a dis-regard for the best interest of the kids and will help you in custody.

Dad....it's time you wipe "welcome" off your forehead and put your "Man Bitch boots" on. Get angry. Do it for your kids.

k9

When I heard their conversation from a few nights ago, one thing they were talking about was how it would be easier if I was seeing someone else also, and throwing out names of women that might make sense for me. The truth is there is a part of me that would welcome that. My logical thinking knows it would be a terrible idea but there is a part of me that is just desperate for some kind of, any kind of, connection with someone. Just some kind of hope that I can make that connection again. Our marriage hasn't had that in so long but I always thought we could get it back. Now I know that it wont be with her and I just cant see right now how I will ever find that again.

Trust me, mutual respect and good sex with kind women DOES EXIST!! However, it's damn sure you will not find it with some chick who will settle for a foursome of dysfunction.

People are not interchangeable; the good ones -- like you -- deserve to be cherished.

Get yourself healed in IC, and when the time is right the world will open up for you again.

A male member of SI had a similar sentiment recently. Stronger08 wrote: "The road to self contentment is best traveled alone. Once you get to your happy place others will be there to greet you. Don't allow anyone, no matter how good their intentions hold you back."

Start documenting all her actions regarding the OP. This will show a dis-regard for the best interest of the kids and will help you in custody.

Don't get your hopes up on this. If your state laws (no-fault) are like mine, her behavior won't make much difference in custody. The exception would be if the OM is engaging in criminal activity, or has a criminal past, & that she is putting the kids at risk by exposing them to him/his environment.

In my state they always try to get the parents to agree on 50/50. This may be where you start but not necessarily stay. If she is too busy with here fantasy life, and canceling and not being a reliable mom you can change that agreement at a later date. I have 2 friends that did this. One a man the othe a woman.

The courts frown on poor parenting.

"I saw evidence of text messages with OM last night. Asked my wife about it this morning and she said she never promised to stop talking to him, just stop seeing him. So she claims she will stop seeing him for sex but will continue the long phone calls and texting. I told her I was hoping for NC because we cannot work on our issues with a third party in the marriage. She claims it is impossible to give him up completely so that is that."

This is not acceptable. I could not live under the same roof if WS was still doing that ( which is why I made him leave when that was going on.)

Many marriages go thru times of great distance, & are able to recover & heal & form a very close connection again. No matter what happens, you are going to be OK, ScaredDad.

But DO NOT allow her to disrespect you this way right now.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 7:57 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

I don't know how to force her to do anything though. I can't legally make her leave or stop doing this. Morally she is off the planet so that isn't an option.

She doesn't want me anymore, she wants him. I have nothing to threaten her with.

The only thing I can do is find a way not to care but I don't know how to do that.

ScaredDad,

I wish I could come up with a solution for you----maybe somebody else here can think of something.

In our case, WH had a relative living around the corner, so he moved in there ( we could not have afforded, financially, to keep 2 households running at that time either.)

I allowed him free access to the children, he even ate meals with us, until it really became apparent that he would not stop contact with OW.

About 3 wks after Dday, he changed the password to our phone acct so that I could no longer see all the calls/texts between them ( & don't forget that they work together too.)

At that point,I realized that I had to stop being so nice. I started parking my car at the bottom of the driveway so that he had to park on the street, & told him that he no longer had free/open access to the kids, that he had to call & make an appt to see them, & that I did not want him in the house,so that if he wanted to see them, he had to take them out.

ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

So, the next day, he gave me the new password. I then saw that there were, no kidding, about 30 texts & calls per day between them.

That's when I went to the lawyer. Our state has the same laws as yours----his A would not have helped me at all (with custody, etc.) had we divorced.

ScaredDad, you guys may not have been close for awhile

( so understandable in this day & age when there are so many pressures on families, & when both mom & dad are working, & money is tight.)

But, YOU ARE THE FATHER OF HER CHILDREN. YOU HAVE BEEN A GOOD PROVIDER . YOU ARE A PERSON WITH INTEGRITY.

You at least deserve to be treated with respect.

Is there no-one who she can go live with while she is pursuing this fantasy/delusion.

(It is a delusion you know. WH told me, in the middle of his A, that I was always angry at him about the laundry, while OW thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread----that's because there was no laundry , no bills with her. It wasn't real life. Same is true in your case.)

Your WW wants out of the family---then get her out. That is the only way you will shock her out of the fog. Allowing her to continue cake eating like this is only prolonging the agony for you & the kids.

Once she is out of the fog, you may have a chance again.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 8:50 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

How do I snap her out of this? This isn't her. I want to believe she is still in there but I don't know.

After talking to the lawyer I know that my future is that I get to see my kids 50% of the time. 7 days out of 14 I am going to wake up without them in the house. That kills me. She is facing the same thing. I know she does not want that so why wont she just give us a chance to work something out.

Everyone in her life (except him) is telling her this is crazy and wrong and a huge mistake.

This is insane. I want to walk away and find a way to be happy. I want to stay and fight for the best future for my kids. I want this all to be over and have my old life back. None of this makes sense.

A gentle 2x4 -- you told her that if she did not give up the OM you would expose her. Are you going to follow through? If you don't, she will believe, rightly, that she can do whatever she likes.

Big hugs to you. I'm so sorry you have to be here.

i feel you brother

How do I snap her out of this?

I don't think you can. You can only change you. But you can act based on events.

You may may have seen reference to 180 here. That may help you move on.

You've said NC and that unless there is NC, the A is advertised. She hasn't, so it's time to let people know the situation and for your WW to be faced with some of the consequences of her choices.

If she's not living elsewhere in the house, it's time to make that move. And so on.

Be well.

Scared Dad,

I'd highly suggest:

YOU STOP talking to and confiding in your WW's mother.

Hire an attorney and protect yourself and your children legally, financially, and CUSTODY-WISE>

DO whatever you can to assure: YOUR children are kept away from OM....based on your posts You can probably secure "Supervised Visitations" is your WW involves your children with OM at this point.

You cannot TRUST your WW: Let a great attorney start working for you, and PROTECTING YOU!

How do I snap her out of this?

I've read here on SI where presenting the WS with actual D papers to sign snapped them out of it within a day or so. They realize you aren't going to play house anymore, you want a real M with them or none at all.

You cannot control her. You can only control yourself. What are you willing to put up with? Are you willing to be humiliated, disrespected and treated like a eunic/housekeeper/nanny for over a decade, until your children are old enough to be on their own?

Like others said, do you want your children to grow up in a home where mom had been cheating on dad during the entire M, and dad chose to stay?

I'm not picking on you, I just want to help you get outside of your loving feelings for who she used to be, and concentrate on who she is now.

This is the hardest part to accept. Understanding that you Have NO control over her decisions, you cannot not snap her out of it.

What you can do, is make life really uncomfortable for her because of her choices. You can also protect your kids and your heart.

Right now the 180 is just for you. It is to help you find yourself, and gain your center, again. It's to protect you from her hurting you further. You need to make her life miserable for her making the choices she is making. If she is still in your marital bedroom, tell her she is no longer welcome there until she ends all contact and her relationship with OM. Then move her belongings to another room, the basement, whereever, but out of your room. You get to keep the room, she is the one who made the bad choices. Next you do not do ANYTHING for her. No cooking, no laundry, none of your $$. Take half of all your funds that you share, and open your own account, and have your checks deposited there. If he's so flipping wonderful let him fund the A. Only talk to her about kids and finances. Make sure she has been given a schedule of times that she is totally responsible for the kids. YOU deserve some me time, and time to take care of you.

I know this seems counterintuitive, that you will chase her away, or send her to his waiting arms....However take a step back and really look at this, right now she is in his arms, figuratively, and I am willing to bet literally as well. Meaning she is already gone.

It's time for you to get good and angry, and use that to help yourself, put on your shit kickers, and take control. Do NOT allow yourself to be disrespected in the manner that she is right now. No marriage has room for an AP. Demand the respect you deserve. DO NOT be a doormat for one more day.

For many of us who have successfully R'd it was when we did this that finally changed the dynamic of things, ans ultimately saved the M.

((((and strength)))