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Apparently WH had trouble staying up. She cursed his loyal parts apparently. He enjoyed her blow jobs and a couple other things. She told me that he sucked in bed. WH has told me that sex is like an activity a thing to do. IDK sounds mechanical when put that way. I think his affair was way complicated. Do I believe him? Partially. Do I think he enjoyed it more than he would like to admit? Yes. I am still trying to wrap my brain around it. It still seems surreal.

My wife said she did it only to keep the attention flowing, but when it was going down, she didn't want to anymore. She claims she told him to stop, and that she cried in the shower afterwards, but I don't know how much of that I believe. I do know that she only saw him that one time, and they quit talking altogether two days later.

I believe H when he says this for a few simple reasons.

1) he never wanted her. He was on his first night out in ages and she was texting him as usual, that's how she knew he was out. She picked him up drove him around for an hour took him to a car park and lifted her skirt - classy. He says he will never get in a car with another woman or go out without me, it was that bad an experience for him. She was mind fucking him by refusing to take him home, just driving for ages in silence. Weird woman.

2) he panicked when he realised she had gone off the wall and was acting really bizarrely. Didn't want to offend her and risk her telling me about the EA, but didn't want to do it. He told himself I wouldn't ever have to know and he would never put himself in this situation again so he did what she wanted as briefly as possible so she would feel she had won and then he planned to call it off.

3) He didn't get that far. Seconds of rubbing her then stuffed it in 3 times and stopped it. The whole thing lasted less than a minute.

4) he switched off in order to do it and had to give himself an erection.

5) she told me herself she is a lesbian and only goes through the motions to manipulate men. She was 'bored' that night apparently. This is the main reason I believe it. I met her, I know how psycho she is.

6) There was little physical contact prior to this night just retrieving his lighter from down he top and two non event kisses where she didn't even respond. HE admits his feelings were confused until the 2nd kiss and he 'woke up' and wanted no more. So I ma confident when he realised what she wanted that night he was not into it.

7) he said the next morning he would never go out without me as he had the worst night of his life. HE did not confess though.

8)Sex between us is mind blowing. She was like a blow up doll. She never even got wet so it was clear she was game playing and not into it.

9) They never touched or kissed in the car. He literally reached over to rub her then they started to have sex in a position where he didn't have to touch her he just shoved it in then 'realised' what he was doing and stopped.

10) because she was dry the whole thing was uncomfortable, even painful for H. poor baby

11) he has never been out since and they had no further physical contact after this.

Doesn't sound like a fun night worth risking your marriage for does it?

I really believe he thought he could do what she wanted to keep her quiet, let her 'win' the game cos if he could handle the guilt I would never need know. Stupidly he could not get it through to her that it was over so the muppet brought her here to meet his 'wonderful wife' wtf! I ended up calling off their affair myself and I have never seen a man so relieved.

He was fishing for attention, an ego boost and that's just what she specialises in. He soon realised that not only did she not want him but she was in control of the game and he was trapped with a psycho who would not let him go. Until she met me that is.....

He used to be very laid back about porn, nudity, masturbation, ogling women etc. Now his whole attitude has changed. He actually said to me that after being in a situation where he felt he had to go through with sex he didn't want he realised how special sex really is with the right person - me. He can't look at porn or masturbate now. I can tell it's the truth by the difference in our sex life. IT's much more intense, frequent and way more loving. HE actually speaks to me during sex now and stops at times just to feel the closeness.

That sounds like someone who has been in a bad situation and is glad to still have his wife to me!

[This message edited by olwen at 4:01 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

Yep I was told the same thing.

I was also told he would forsake all others.

This question pops up every now and then and, at least for me, all gets back to two larger questions. First, are you holding onto special memories from your affair? Second, why keep lying?

At least for me, great sex = memories. I remember girlfriends from when I was at college (a long time ago and a galaxy far far away) in vivid detail. And because I can, I infer that the sex my fww had is now a special memory tucked away that she gets to keep and makes a wedge between us.

Then the lying about drives a further wedge. As UO and others have said, sex makes you feel good or you wouldn't do it. And she willingly did it... So, I infer that her attempts to minimize it are just another lie.

Sore spot for me.

"Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and does not apply that all waywards experience this."

NotDefeatedYet, I got the EXACT same comments:

"... when it was going down, she didn't want to anymore."

"... she cried in the shower afterwards"

Then she got up in the morning and started texting him all over again....huh?

As UO and others have said, sex makes you feel good or you wouldn't do it.

Sex makes emotionally healthy people feel good. Normal people don't have sex under circumstances that would make it feel awful. But sex definitely can feel awful.

Damaged people are all twisted up about intimacy. They will have sex with strangers, with people who are using them, and with unstable people who they aren't even attracted to. They will have sex when they don't feel desire and in decidedly non-sexy situations.

Victims of child abuse or rape who haven't dealt with their past can be:

easily manipulated

confused

panicked

desperate

full of self-loathing

and out of control.

When their boundaries are violated, they don't recognize it. Messed-up AP's may feel familiar and seem normal. And under those types of circumstances it is entirely likely that the sex will not feel good.

It may feel dirty, obligatory, shameful, hurtful, demeaning, nauseating, numb, or just plain bad. Not everybody's memories of sex are passionate and positive.

None of this takes responsibility away from the WS. But it is not impossible to have awful sex and to choose awful sex.

I got the "It was bad" and "I cried in the bathtub" speech. Of course, then she had lots of long telephone conversations with him and worked to keep everything secret.

At the end of the day, liars will lie.

My WH said it "wasn't anything special, and at the most was awkward"

then again the affair went on a year and a half! Which also doesn't mean it was great, it just means the relationship went on a year and a half, possibly for many other reasons.

He could easily have been lying. At first he wouldn't even admit they HAD sex, not even when he moved in with her. (like I was supposed to believe they lived together but never did it) So, WH telling me the sex wasn't anything special could be his way of trying to minimize something anyway. Since he was upset when I found out that they were having sex afterall. (not that I doubted it.)

Then when I found proof in OW's letter to him, talking about their sex and how passionate it was, he denied it was passionate and told me he needed Viagra to do it with her, and even then it didn't work sometimes.

How great their sex was or wasn't isn't something I will ever know for sure.

But generally I think if the man is going back for more it can't be bad. If it was a complete disaster, as in WH simply could never perform with OW at all, I would think he would have ended the entire relationship period. I can't imagine a man keeping up an affair long term where he was never able to perform, if he is a man that sees sex as an important part of a relationship. (and WH does)

[This message edited by Spelljean at 11:57 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

Does anyone beside myself believe that our WS is very likely to lie to this question?

There is no way we can ever know for sure if this answer is the truth or not. No way to find out it is a lie.

If they were to say the sex was mind blowing and the best ever. We (BS) would be hurt. We would cry. Be unpleasant to be around. And possibly D them.

So there is a strong reason for our WS to lie to us. They would be punished for the truth and possibly rewarded for the lie.

Of course they're lying. Only your desire to want to believe it makes you think it's even possibly the truth.

But does it matter really? Do you want to hear that it was the best mind blowing earth shattering sex they've ever had?

I wouldn't get hung up on that question.

My WH has been sketchy on the deets due to "I-Can't-Remember-Syndrome".

My opinion is that sex with them was probably "just okay". He claims he only had sex one time with each ONS.

His EA, on the other hand...well, she had no problem telling me how miserable he was...how he complained about me...said I was lazy...he wasn't happy with my body...told her sex with me was like I was "just laying there"...

The only conclusion I can draw is that I'm the one he was having horrible sex with.

At the time, I understand that it was very good for the cheaters.

However, it wound up costing my now XWW a small fortune in the divorce. Who the hell would pay 10s of thousands per fuck? She never was a very good shopper.

Agree with Razor. She probably gave the easy, non-confrontational answer, and there's absolutely no way to confirm or refute what she said.

My lingering struggle then is questioning how often she's taken that approach. Assuming that some answers aren't truthful, but knowing that some are, where does she draw the line? I want to think of her as being honest, but everything leads back to the fact that on each question/issue, she has to decide what degree of truth is deserved or required, AND THAT SUCKS!

[This message edited by Littleleaf at 2:07 PM, September 12th (Thursday)]

fWW said the sex was no good, "both times".

Fwh has told me it wasn't great. She wasn't very giving and it made him so angry because she wanted him and that's why he was there but it did not make him happy.

Of course some of that will be minimising and rewriting history but some is probably true.

He was messed up and caught in a kind of Madonna/whore thing with me as the breast feeding mother of his children and she was all over him telling him he was all she wanted and they had a special connection

Stupid stupid stupid

Adolescent nonsense

Not like real life and real love at all

What a waste

JustDesserts, as usual, great post!

I wish my WH would just follow you around. I think he could learn so much from you.

Then again, I wish he was the person I thought he was this whole relationship :/

When I asked this question, the answer was that it wasn't anything but 'vanilla', mainly it was her sucking his cock (the ONS's aside, those were afternoons in fleabag hotels for an hour) because he didn't like to look at her...and quantified that with "you've seen what she looks like". <Yeah douchebag I've seen what she looks like in all of her nasty sticky hairy fugly 'glory', but you kept going back for more.>

This far along I can see that sex with my WH is/was 'meh'. I am/was getting tired of doing all the 'work', figuratively and literally, while he lay back for the most part. Maybe sex with the AP's wasn't very good, but sex with his wife appears to not have been special enough to put in much of an effort either. Having said all of that, perhaps the lack of great sex in his life goes back to him. He would be the common denominator here. Jayzuz

To me there is strange irony connected to this issue; did our WS's enjoy the sex. I told my WH that I will always believe that the sex was great even if he said it wasn't; it also helps that he lied his fool head off at the time.

So our WS's will go through life with this stigma even if the sex was utterly worthless. Doesn't matter; only what I believe is relevant, and I believe that their screwing around moved mountains.

So WH has to live the rest of his life with a wife who is convinced that our marriage sex is second best compared with his adventures in floozy land. May not be true; but there again, what I believe is the truth and he can't prove otherwise.

Don't eat yourself alive with thoughts of great sex between the cheaters; just assume it was and torment your errant spouse with your conviction. Let WS deal with some more guilt.