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I was reading some of your responses and a cold shiver went down my spine. I could not be in such a controlling relationship. He stalked you on other boards and SI to give you false advice, to keep tabs on you and ultimately control you.

Doesn't sound like a loving trusting relationship to me.

I don't have any advice to give, I just hope you are able to look at things logically during your 30 days of NC and decide what kind of relationship you want and if this man is capable of that.

Lg,

And this is exactly the type of stuff that pulls me in. I've been doing reading on boundaries, and I see that my main boundary problem is not wanting to hurt other people by saying no. So I can see exactly how this is playing out for me right now.

You say this, and then you ask if you're doing the right thing? if your IC is correct?

I'm scared that if I say no to him, it will hurt him. And I'm scared that if I hurt him, he will leave me. I'm scared that if I say no, he won't be there in 30 days.

That's a big problem - fearing something that would be so good for you.

I guess this is a 2 X 4:

In general, you're out of your mind.

The content of his messages is almost totally irrelevant. The really relevant fact is that he broke NC.

He broke NC. He violated your boundaries. AGAIN.

The very least you need to do is tell him you're resetting the clock to 30 days from the time of your reset-the-clock message, and tell him any further contact will result in resetting the clock again.

That's all. Do not respond to his content.

Of course, you could say, 'I'm done with this relationship. Do not contact me ever again.' You could be gentle, but that would be a good sentence to send.

OTOH, you could also do the 30 days of NC in the hope that he would go away. Then it's his choice, and maybe he'd never harass you again. That seems like a coward's way out, but it may be best with this guy.

Also, his IC has known him for only a few hours. He hardly knows him at all. The trial separation is useful only in some cases, and your manipulative boyfriend (emphasis on boy) hasn't shown his true colors yet. He hasn't told his IC, if he ever will, your real reasons for going NC, and he hasn't revealed, if he ever will, his own dysfunctions. In fact, he probably ignores everything you've ever said that he can't use for his own interests.

His IC's duty is to help your Wbf get what he wants. All the IC has to go on is what your Wbf tells him, and your Wbf is in this only for himself. The content of his messages is dangerous to you. Ignore it.

You're a lawyer, for crying out loud! Represent and protect yourself the way you would a client!

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:35 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

The very least you need to do is tell him you're resetting the clock to 30 days

LG contacting him exposes her to more abuse. I don't think she needs to tell him this, just needs to do it.

He already mentioned that if she wanted to reset the clock, he understood. So.be.it.

You're a lawyer, for crying out loud! Represent and protect yourself the way you would a client!

Absolutely!!!! Applause!

Hoping you're okay, LG.

I wanted to add that I have been on his side of a brief separation with my WH.

It was hard. But a few days in, things started to click and we both started getting the help we needed, and I finally began to let go of the outcome -- which is the only way an authentic relationship can exist. Our M prior to the separation was toxic. It still needs a lot of work, and both WH and I still have independent work to do.

My point is, just as I had to respect WH's request for space, your WBF needs to honor your need for space. It is the only way to even begin to heal. And as in any aspect of human relationships, the outcome cannot be guaranteed.

You've been asked a lot of thought provoking questions on this thread. Consider them and bring them to your ic. Maybe see if you can start seeing your ic 2x a week during this crisis.

Everything will be ok in the end. If its not ok, its not the end. And you are not solely responsible for making anything ok.

I just got home from work, and read everyone's responses. I'm not in a good place tonight.

One thing I thought about today while driving was that this situation was (sort of) reversed last December. We were talking about getting engaged, and then he asked for no contact in December out of the blue. He said it was because he was depressed, and he needed to be alone to work through it. It crushed me, but I respected his wishes. I never initiated contact with him. I would respond if he messaged me, but I never initiated it. He would periodically once a week ask to see me, and I would agree. Each time I'd get my hopes up, and then he'd say that he needed more time. During those 3 months, he still had us listed as "in a relationship on facebook." There was one Thursday where he asked to see me on a Sunday, and I said yes. He said he would text me on Saturday with a time and location. I waited, and got nothing. I waited all day Sunday too, and got nothing. He completely stood me up. I didn't initiate contact after that though. I didn't delete him from facebook. I didn't lash out at him. I did nothing. He contacted me like 2 days later, and I asked him why. But I never lashed out at him. I respected his wishes for no contact, even though he was continuously playing with my emotions during those three months. I didn't know it at the time, but he was seeing the OW during those months.

The rational part of my brain thinks that me asking for no contact was reasonable. I tried for 6 months to R, and it was all lies. I gave him a strict end point of NC, and I'm not jerking him around by asking to see him and then standing him up. I told him I need a month alone, and then we would talk again.

He made it a week, and everything he did was predictable. He tried sending the emails last night of what his IC said. That didn't work, so he sent a very nice email about respecting my needs. Still no response, so he lashed out and deleted his facebook and GPS tracker. Still no response, so he sent me a text saying that he's hurting. He said in the text that he was just trying to send his girlfriend a sweet email saying that he wanted to see her, and he doesn't see how that's bad. Then he brought his facebook back, sent me an invite on the GPS app again. Nothing since then. Since I haven't responded still, I'm guessing that he's starting to reach the point where he's thinking that I don't care about him anymore. And I'm scared that when he reaches that point, he'll create a dating profile. Or go out with a girl. Or go to a strip club. Or whatever.

Here is the thing, for your wBF to really identify, own, and fix his issues, he has to do it for himself, regardless of you staying or going. He has to not want to be the guy who flirts with OW and has sex in order to feel safe or validated. The difficult internal work to own and address one’s internal issues cannot be done for someone else; it must be done because the individual has a very real desire to be a different and healthier person.

That is exactly the reason why I wanted to do a month apart. He was so focused on lying to me every day about all the things he was doing to fix us. I wanted him to stop worrying about me, and focus on himself. I wanted him to want to be a better person FOR HIMSELF. Instead of spending so much energy trying to pretend to go to counseling, why not just actually go? I thought the NC would be tough love, and force him to actually do the work instead of just lying to me about doing the work.

I was reading old emails from him, and found the old counseling emails. I feel nauseous now reading them. Here's part of one from May about his IC (who I now know didn't actually exist):

So today I went and had another counseling session after work. We talked a lot about what you and your counselor had talked about and what me and you talked about after that. I asked him if he thought I had a personality disorder. He told me that there were good things about my personality and bad things. He said it was the same way with everybody. He told me that everybody has positive strengths and then things they wish they could change about themselves.

I also found out more about the stalking charges that OW filed. He was with me the whole weekend, except for about 6 hours when he went to his dad's house. His email last night said that she showed up the night before that looking for him, and he wasn't where he said he was going to be. I guess she texted him or something, because somehow he found that out. The next day when he left my house, he texted her apologizing for lying. She told him to not contact her again. Then he said that he got a voicemail from a cop warning him to leave her alone. He left her alone until that Monday, and he texted her again apologizing. Two hours later he was arrested.

That hurts me, but is kind of what I suspected. He also admitted finally in the emails last night that he wasn't planning on confessing, but had to after he got arrested. I sort of already assumed that, but he had denied it the past 6 months. He made a big deal out of the fact that he confessed, and said he had done it because he respected me. I think the whole stalking thing really bothers me because I wonder whether he really wanted her, and I'm just second choice. Once she shut him down, did he just go back to me because I was the only thing left? It makes me feel like he didn't actually want me, didn't choose me. I was just his only option.

This is what's happening to you now. I'm so sorry. I know what it's like to be torn in two this way.

I do feel like I'm being torn in half. There's the part of me that is starting to learn about my boundary issues. I'm trying so hard to be strong and actually DO the things that I'm learning. But then there's the part of me that just wants to take away all his hurt. I want to make him feel loved. I want to be there for him. I want to support him. And when he sends me messages saying that he's broken and that he's hurting, I just want to respond so badly. I've probably typed literally 30 emails today to him, and I haven't sent any of them. I feel like my insides are being shredded.

There's also the part of me that's really doubting everything that I'm thinking right now. What if he is really trying, and I'm giving up that opportunity? What if he really has figured stuff out? What if the emails weren't manipulation last night? What if he really is remorseful? What if I'm screwing up something that could be good, if I would just put effort into it now? What if I'm giving up too soon?

However, you have to focus on your fear that he will do something "stupid". You are not in control of anyone. Having the GPS tracker was false confirmation. You have no idea what someone is doing. All someone has to do is leave their phone at home, or in the office, and go do whatever they want.

I know, and this is hard. He sent me an invite for the GPS app again, and I want so badly to accept it. But he can do whatever he wants to regardless of whether I'm monitoring his location or not. I think the scary part is that after the month of NC, he really has no incentive to tell me the truth. So if he has sex with someone during this month, how would I even know? That part really scares me.

I've been reading about boundaries, and I'm learning some good stuff. I know that I usually respond yes out of fear of losing the person. My book says that if a person only stays with you when you do exactly what they want, then it's not a healthy relationship. In a healthy relationship, the person would be able to tolerate and understand my no.

I feel miserable. I wish there was a way to just turn off all the thoughts in my head. I considered just drinking a lot tonight at home, but that usually makes me more depressed. All these thoughts are going back and forth in my head, and I'm just completely miserable. I don't even want to hang out with friends because it requires too much energy to pretend to be a normal person right now.

My counselor told me last week that I am the most stubborn person that she has ever met for not wanting to give up on a relationship. She also said that I am able to tolerate more emotional pain than anyone she's treated.

I am completely miserable.

I'm also just scared that I'm being an uncaring bitch by ignoring him like this. I keep reading his texts, and he sounds like he's in so much pain. And I just feel mean by not responding to him. I have the ability to make him feel better. I could text him, and ask him to come over. And by not doing that, I just feel mean. He's probably sitting at home thinking that I don't love him. I do love him.

I wish so badly that he had gone the month just working on himself, and then we could have done the counseling that his IC suggested at the end of that month. I would have felt like he respected my boundaries, and we could have started fresh.

I am so scared that he's going to sleep with someone this weekend. I think I need to take some sleeping pills. Every time I close my eyes, I just picture him with another girl. And I feel like I have the power to stop that from happening because I could just invite him over to my house. But I can't always be the one stopping that. He has to do it on his own. In order for me to feel safe, I have to know that he can control his own emotions.

Arg!!

You are miserable because you insist on toting this load around. LG, this is really a double edged sword. You have this as an outlet and I know you are getting excellent advise however, as long as your BF can read these posts he has the real advantage of knowing exactly what angle to use to get to you.

He hasn't figured anything out. Nothing but, lies have come out of his mouth. He has imaginary counselors and tells you exactly what he wants you to believe and, you fall for it. How long has it been since he made a post? As much as you want to believe it, he is not interested in changing himself. He wants to change who you are to fit into his world which BTW, is dysfunctional.

I'm encouraged to see you take a stand with the NC. It truly is baby steps but, you have to let go of your fear of what he might do. You can't control it and you are making yourself crazy trying.

What do you get out of this relationship?

What do you get out of this relationship?

Right now, nothing.

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.

Gently...what if you can't?

I don't know. I think NC was my last hope. Nothing else worked, and he was still lying daily. So I thought that tough love would force him to do the work that would get us back to that point.

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.

Ummm .... Remember this?

I guess the longest that he's gone with only having sex with me is May-November 2012 and April 2013 - present... So... six months. ETA: I kept reading that over and over. We've been together almost 2 years. And the longest that he's been faithful to me is 6 months. It's been another 6 months since the last time he slept with another girl, so I guess it's about time for him to do it again.

The way that I saw him is that he cannot be alone and that he is terrified of being abandoned. When he was in Argentina for a month, he slept with another girl. When he was feeling insecure in December, he slept with a second girl. When he thought he might lose me after Dday, he created a dating profile while trying to win me back.

^^^THESE are the things that he should be talking to his IC about.

Right now he's wasting money and just keeping the IC's furniture warm. He's using IC as a way to tell YOU that what you need/want is *wrong*.

He is an absolutely unsafe partner for you right now.

He's broken and he's hurting, but that is HIS issue to deal with. YOU cannot fix it for him.

I'm seeing a pattern with him. Re-read the part about the stalking charge. That chick was telling him to 'leave her alone' and he just kept on and kept on with the contact. But he has 'morphed' that and turned himself into the victim because "what the heck? I was just apologizing to her!" But the fact is that she told him to leave her the hell alone and he didn't.

Stop doubting yourself. Those emails were manipulation. Plain and simple. He hasn't figured anything out.

I'm really sorry that his *true* being has put a kink in your life-plan, but you have to let go of the outcome and attempting to recover what you *thought* that you had. Last year you were the happiest that you had ever been in your life....but you were with a ticking time bomb. You don't want to go back to that. And the fact that you are so concerned that he is going to *act out* is proof that you know that the bomb continues to tick........

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:05 PM, October 11th (Friday)]

I'm also just scared that I'm being an uncaring bitch by ignoring him like this. I keep reading his texts, and he sounds like he's in so much pain. And I just feel mean by not responding to him. I have the ability to make him feel better. I could text him, and ask him to come over. And by not doing that, I just feel mean. He's probably sitting at home thinking that I don't love him. I do love him....

Gently, LG - ^^^^^ This is not NC. You know that he is reading what you're writing. So he's not guessing anything, he knows, because you're telling him. At least be honest with yourself about what you're doing. Everyone here believes that you should go NC, but until YOU believe that you should be NC it's not going to work. And really that's ok. We all have to process and handle things in our own time, when we're ready.

But you have to be honest about what you're doing.

I have found that when I've had enough of something, no one has to say word or try to convince me of anything. You said your IC mentioned that you're stubborn, so maybe that's the case with you. When you've really had enough, he'll be able to text, email, phone, fedex, telegraph, smoke signal or whatever else, and it won't phase you because YOU will have had enough and be ready for true NC.

But you have to be honest about what you're doing.

You're right. I'm trying to enforce my boundaries, but I do know that my messages on here are being read. Which is not truly enforcing my boundaries.

I guess I see me not responding to his emails and not asking him to come over as a huge step. If this had happened last week, I would have asked him to come over tonight. In reality it's just a baby step I guess.

((LG))

Baby steps are a start right?

This time last year, it was the happiest I had ever been in my life. I want to get that back.

You can't get that back because you aren't that same person anymore. Your eyes are opened. You still are walking in denial, but you know what's going on. Your subconscious knows. You can pretend, of course. Rug sweep. Fake it. But you know the truth. There's no going back.

The whole stalking thing should bother you because he was stalking that woman. So much so that she had to call the police and ask that they call him and tell him to leave her alone. It should bother you that he IGNORED that warning from the cop..and contacted her anyway. You're an attorney. The police told this man to no longer contact this woman..and he ignored the police and did it any way.

And,basically,he is doing the same thing to you. He is stalking you. He has been for awhile now. And,like that woman, you asked for NC..and like that situation..he ignored it. The only difference here is the police didn't tell him to stay away..yet.

You say you were so happy a year ago..but he was cheating.

You don't know this man. You only know the things he has told you..and you have found out that most of those things were lies. You are in love with a man who never existed.

Stop worrying about him. He is reading your posts. He knows how upset you are. He knows how worried you are about him. You need to start worrying about YOU.

ETA: We often advice BS's to get a restraining order because the crazy AP's won't go away...what we advise is exactly what that woman did. HE was her crazy AP..think about that for a minute.

[This message edited by confused615 at 4:23 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

Read above a million times and I have my own question for you

I want you to tell us how you met/ dating, the whole story (just the beginning, tell us what your best qualities were, if you were at a hard/easy stage of life etc etc. No i'm not saying he stalked you or anything like into dating him. Take as many words as you need. Describe the most vivid details

I want you to give it a go. If you feel weird about it you can PM but it's a really really useful exercise I did out of my fave marriage book. It's about recognizing the relationship for what it is. Your own truth.

When you type it I want you to be in your full emotions.

Then I want you to re-read your story and see how it makes you feel.

I'm all for the recognising the behaviours and us shoving it down your throat, truly I feel compelled to do it. But I want you to take the time and actually start a reflection process of your relationship with him. NC is for you as well, but you're not treating it that way.

Ofcourse internet safety and all that so maybe don't actually say "we met at starbucks on this street_____ I met my friend Jo who went to uni with me which is btw _____ and we graduated____" More like "we met at a coffee shop and I was with a friend"

ETA: We often advice BS's to get a restraining order because the crazy AP's won't go away...what we advise is exactly what that woman did. HE was her crazy AP..think about that for a minute.

I have thought about that a lot. He had originally told me that she was single, and she did it out of revenge when she found out he was seeing me. Even with the new information, I think he still honestly believes that. He said that she was upset when she found out that he was lying to her about his location, and that she used her connections on the police force to punish him. He said that when he was arrested, the woman cop apologized and said she knew it wasn't real or something. And it is weird that at his trial, neither the OW or the cop that arrested him showed up. The trial was continued to give them another chance to show up, and they didn't the second time either. So the charges were dismissed.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think she was angry because he was dating me, and so she did NC. When he broke it, she was not nearly as nice as I am and called the cops. And, I think he probably wanted to continue dating both of us. I don't think he knew which one of us he preferred. He told me that he chose me, but was trying to keep her calm so that she wouldn't tell me everything.

I want you to tell us how you met/ dating, the whole story (just the beginning, tell us what your best qualities were, if you were at a hard/easy stage of life etc etc. No i'm not saying he stalked you or anything like into dating him. Take as many words as you need. Describe the most vivid details

We met on an online dating website, and traded really long emails for probably 2-3 weeks before we met in person. I probably became attached to him in his emails, because everything that he said about himself checked off all my boxes of things I was looking for. Our first date was at a Mexican restaurant, and it was fun. He hugged me when we met. He was very nervous. I was driving, and he sat far away from me with his legs turned away from me. After the date, he texted me asking for a second date. I said yes. It was Christmas time, and I went out of town for it. While at my parents' house, I got a weird email from him about all the things he thought he screwed up about the date. He was basing it off an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I thought it was weird, and stopped responding to him. He wrote another email apologizing and explaining that it was a joke. I just wrote it off as saying he wasn't very confident, and went out with him again. We went on four dates I think, and then he asked me to be exclusive. I agreed. And the first year of our relationship was nearly perfect, with hardly any arguments. I had no clue that he was cheating on me. I would occasionally joke with him about that weird email he wrote me. After getting to know him, I thought it was cute and funny.

I was at a good point of my life when I met him. I was dating a lot online, but hadn't met anyone who checked off all my boxes. I had been living in my town with my new job for about a year. I had friends in my town. I was happy and confident with myself, but was ready to settle down and start to find someone I could marry since I felt like I was getting older.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 7:13 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]