SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just another voice to add:

I don't know why, but I hate the Twilight series, Hunger Games is a little better (Girl power!) and sappy romance novels disgust me. I thought Jane Eyre was too romantic.

I'm not sure why I think this as I really wanted the fairy tale marriage...

And the Little House series - what would Pa do? Remember when he had some gal hit on him, told him he had soft hands and he said it was from shoveling manure! Now that's boundaries!

Probably from my own experience and my close friends' experiences, but porn had really no role in their As. I have one college friend who had an extensive porn collection that was discovered later, but he was one sick MF and was soliciting people on CL. Pretty sure it wasn't just because of the porn, but how much of an asshole he was from day one (can you tell I never liked the bastard!). I had (HAD) two girlfriends that cheated, one was a HUGE romance novel reader, but her issues were much bigger than reading too much Nora Roberts.

My problem with porn is that it is changing the norm with what younger guys expect in women (and vice versa). Nothing really A related. I'm not talking soft or regular porn, but the shit my guy friends tell me about. Yes, "two girls and a cup" and others but that was several years ago, I'm sure there is sicker crap out there now.

I don't know, I haven't seen a porn since the 80s when a bunch of my friends found one of our father's collections and decided that viewing "debby does dallas" was an excellent idea. Most of us were virgins at that time and it certainly was an eye opener. Can't say I've ever jumped a copier repair guy, so I don't think it affected me.

And I'm sorry, I can't really compare the fantasy of being romanced with flowers and words in the same ballpark at all as the fantasy of fucking an entire cheerleader squad. Guys have the chance of brushing up on their romance skills, I can never turn into multiple cheerleaders

On the contrary, man-porn data shows a strong link to adultery.

There''s no real data for this, or real data for brain-melting or anything else like that.

Well I think we''re a sample set of 40K plus and from our data pool we can extrapolate a correlation between selfishness & adultery. Sigh. We know this is the root cause of adultery and we don''t need brain scans or academic literature to prove it.

As for porn, if you''re interested in its effects psychologically check out: http://yourbrainonporn.com

Of the many things it talks about is that visual pornography interrupts attachment. So yes, an unhealthy addiction to visual pornography can affect the attitudes of the addict and cause them to change their behaviors that are not in favor of their marriage.

As for romance lit ... it promotes attachment and warm fuzzies. So I don''t think it would interrupt an M the same way visual pornography does. But what it can do - if you subsist on it - is give the reader a very unrealistic expectation of what romance is, as in it promotes the message that romance *always* wins. The earlier posters were correct. In romance fiction, women are portrayed as strong, independent, and maybe faced with some seemingly insurmountable challenge. Men are portrayed as extremely emotional but they don''t show it, they only let down their guard, eventually, with the heroine. Infidelity is unacceptable. So too is domestic violence. Essentially, romance novels follow the exact same protagonist story arc that movies follow. So the end is obvious and predetermined, no matter what happens all is forgiven, and there are no complications other than the heroine''s or hero''s own stubbornness.

My issues with romance lit is the same as my issues with women''s magazines. They promote stereotypes and can - if you are relying on them for information or models - make one stupid. Romance lit rarely has an IT programmer as a hero, he''s always a cop or construction worker, you know "manly" jobs. And don''t get me started on Cosmo!

An occasional romance lit read to get some warm fuzzes and escape the pressures of the day? Meh, I don''t see a problem. Watching some youporn to help release some sexual tension and escape the pressures of the day? Not a problem.

But subsistence? Or using it after an A when either one were a factor? Trigger fucking city. I myself now have no tolerance for visual porn thanks to xWHs abuse of it and expectation that I would participate and be like the women in the videos. Nothing like your husband raping you to change your interest in watching visual porn. Imho.

[This message edited by cayc at 8:00 AM, November 2nd, 2013 (Saturday)]

And I'm sorry, I can't really compare the fantasy of being romanced with flowers and words in the same ballpark at all as the fantasy of fucking an entire cheerleader squad. Guys have the chance of brushing up on their romance skills, I can never turn into multiple cheerleaders

This is a good point to focus on for a sec.

Comparing romancing with flowers and dinner to being gang fucked by a bunch of robot cheerleaders is a false dichotomy and two entirely different.. genres, for lack of a better pre-coffee word.

There's an entire genre of porn dedicated to erotic/romantic sex. I think it gets very little public attention because it's not the kind of stuff angry parents discover on their teenage sons USB sticks or browsing history. It's just a couple of people lovingly having sex, nothing weird or messed up or even creepy.

Gang banging cheerbots is IMO as creepy and weird as dating a pedophile vampire or being taken on retainer by a billionaire for unimaginatively kinky sex and the entire world not calling that prostitution.

Not all stories, films, memes and so on are created equal - I can get into the horror genre and enjoy some of that stuff but WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT HUMAN CENTIPEDE WAS A GOOD IDEA!?!?

Also, t/j - Hunger Games is a sci fi post-apoc, not a romance novel. Also, it is awesome. End t/j

eta:

wrt to the yourbrainonporn site again, it's junk science and propaganda. There is nothing substantive behind it.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:29 AM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

t/j - Hunger Games is a sci fi post-apoc, not a romance novel. Also, it is awesome. End t/j

Agree!

There's an entire genre of porn dedicated to erotic/romantic sex.

But I'm betting that those that do more than casual viewing of porn are not just looking at these kinds of porn.

This thread makes me think about the phrase "Things that make you go hmm.."

I've watched porn with my STBX, many years ago. I've seen little of it but have on an occassion "enjoyed" it. The one thing that I remember so clearly about that one particular night was that I wanted to watch the porn. I was "enjoying" it. I wanted STBX to hold me and watch it with me. I wanted to watch it then head to bed to "make love". He wanted to start fooling around and I said NO. I want to watch it. The look on his face? Priceless. We watched and went to bed and made love. So, what the hell does that mean?

I've only had a handfull of vivid dreams and only ONE of a sexual nature. The main character is on tv every day. He's a big star. He's a big man. I get excited no matter what he's doing, wearing, saying. He turns me on.

In my dream we were in bed, fully clothed and kissing. He lifted his head up with a tilt and looked directly into my eyes and asked me "What about STBX?" It was a dream that woke me in the morning and I looked at STBX and said you won't believe the dream I just had!!!! It was a shock to me that I had it.

I told him the entire dream. I told quite a few people that day because it was so very vivid and I thought it was funny. Everyone knows I just love this actor. They tell me it's creepy! LOL! My son told me it's creepy, everyone else just looks at me as though I've gone completely mad because how can I love this particular man? He's not a major star because of his looks, though he's not bad, he's just an average man.

Since then I've come to realize it was my subconcious telling me that STBX was cheating on me and I hadn't acknowledged it yet on a conscious level. I came to understand this well after DD as I questioned so many things from that time.

Being on the "SI Bus" for nearly 3 years now I reached out to the Fifty Shades book to "help" me. I forced myself to read it. I stopped after the first chapter. It does not excite me beyond a voyeauristic experience. I want the romance.

Not the romance of fairy tales. The romance of my husband loving me in a warm and comforting way. It's flowers when I don't expect them. I think I miss the unexpected flowers as much as the warmth of his hugs. I want to know he loves me. I want kindness, compassion, understanding.

I found a bag of xxx rated magazines in my home in Boston recently that must have belonged to shitlicker's fiance'. (I know I haven't updated my saga recently but he was living there too.) It's sitting upstairs in the bag, waiting for me to "test the waters" to see if I can be "kind" to myself and release some tension in an innocent way. I'm saving porn...??..!! I'm waiting to give myself a tiny bit of relaxation. I'm hoping my crazy mind will allow me to relax enough to just be good to myself.

That's what porn is to me on a personal level. On a social level I'm appalled by it. On a responsible level I'm saddened by it. Why? Because they ARE real people. Because there is porn that is so obviously not a happy experience for the people "performing" nor the people "receiving". Look at the faces instead of the body and a totally different experience is going on there in those faces. It's a JOB.

I hope this makes sense? LMAO! What I "think" I'm trying to say is that like all things in this world it depends on your individuality. Your morals, your sense of integrity, your inner soul. Who are you? What makes you tick? For some it's a deal breaker. For some it's so fundamentally wrong it's a shock to the heart as well as the mind. For others it's harmless, but, let's not forget the "industry" that creates it.

wrt to the yourbrainonporn site again, it's junk science and propaganda. There is nothing substantive behind it.

As a scientist, I respectfully disagree. There's some speculative stuff sure, but there is also posts from actual studies. It's science, scraping away at the margins. I'm with Karl Popper, it's falsification (keep trying different avenues to see what you see) not Kuhn's paradigms (hang out in the accepted lane of the road).

But hey, call it "junk science" and you can dismiss anything!

I stand by the original point. Obsessive use of porn disrupts attachment to other people by the addict.

There's some speculative stuff sure, but there is also posts from actual studies. It's science, scraping away at the margins. I'm with Karl Popper, it's falsification (keep trying different avenues to see what you see) not Kuhn's paradigms (hang out in the accepted lane of the road).

But hey, call it "junk science" and you can dismiss anything!

There's a good mix of science, pseudoscience, speculation, misinterpretation of real science, restatement of speculation as if it is fact, and extreme paraphrasing. To get to the primary scientific research from that site can take you through layers of blogs, comic strips, blogs citing other blogs that cited the discussion section of a primary research article, and then sometimes real science. So yes, there is some real science in there, mixed in with the garbage and sensationalism.

"Junk science" to me is something different. That website to me is more a good example of "agenda driven" - selectively choosing real science that matches the agenda. It doesn't make the science they selectively paraphrased junk, but what material they choose to put in, the way they choose to interpret the data, and the material they choose to leave out doesn't make their message reliably accurate either.

But I'm betting that those that do more than casual viewing of porn are not just looking at these kinds of porn.

That was kind of the point.

As a scientist, I respectfully disagree. There's some speculative stuff sure, but there is also posts from actual studies. It's science, scraping away at the margins. I'm with Karl Popper, it's falsification (keep trying different avenues to see what you see) not Kuhn's paradigms (hang out in the accepted lane of the road).

But hey, call it "junk science" and you can dismiss anything!

I stand by the original point. Obsessive use of porn disrupts attachment to other people by the addict.

I'm not calling it junk science because I want to dismiss it because I'm an idiot or something. I'm assuming that's what you mean because I can't really see any other point to what you said.

Whether or not the original point was that obsessive use of porn disrupts attachment to others has nothing to do with the junk science of YBOP. They are, IMO, two separate issues. Yes, obsessive use of anything by any addict will disrupt pretty much everything. Yes, people can become addicted to watching porn. That's not an issue I disagree with.

What I disagree with and consider junk science is exactly what circe points out - the selective choice of real science to promote an agenda. I consider that junk science, because it isn't about finding truths, it's about building a case.

I consider that activity to be incredibly harmful, because I believe that addiction to these things is very real, and sending people down the wrong road only makes it worse.

Finally, I am deeply suspicious of any site that goes out of its way to call itself Secular, but invites "all opinions" and shares no links to any actual secular organizations that I can see. There are enough religious smurf fronts out there doing that kind of shit to boost their own credibility that I have a hard time trusting any "secular" group that calls itself as much and isn't a part of a secular humanist organization.

I personally think its the same. never read twilight. never read 50 shades..or anything like that.

a part of the man brain gets stimulated in porn and a part of the female brain gets stimulated in mommy porn.

I wonder what realistic, down-to earth mommy porn would sound like:

“She felt her heart beat jump when her husband took out the trash without having to remind him. In the twilight his bald-spot gave an exotic glow masking his beer gut. Finally the kids were at her parents for the night. After ten years together they were finally alone, the whole night ahead of them and both looking forwards to going to bed together. Both determined to try something new: getting eight hours of uninterrupted sleep”.

^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bigger for the win!

two girls one cup AND human centipede references.

oh i heart you guys.

I read 50 shades because I thought it would help me get a little more comfortable with the stuff the husband is into.

It didn't. The husband has viewed pron in that genre that totally creeps me out. I did 'pose' for him so he has that to look at instead of pron.

Obvisiously that didn't do me any good since he f@cked a skank.

Except for the beer gut and the bald spot, Bigger, I swear you just described my night last night.

Hmm. I indulged in "mommy porn." Who knew?

Argh, I am with SG on this. The phrase "mommy porn" is killing me. Do we belong to some inferior subset of women after giving birth, and our sexuality is now a joke? Ugh.

I wonder if any of this is any different from WS's not being able to separate fantasy with reality in their A's. My exWW said one of the reasons they did it was because it was fantasy. I said well to you it probably was and seemed romantic or something. But to him it was all about sweet talking you into bed...and it worked because you fell for it. It wasn't romantic to him whatsoever. Just a willing good looking woman to have sex with in a hotel room far from his spouse and her husband.

I believe healthy people can do the porn thing as long as they are able to separate life and on screen fantasy. If you can't then you probably need help. To me it's no different then healthy people separating on screen violence from going on a real life shooting rampage we experience on the evening news these days.

"Mommy Porn" just sounds so very condescending. I agree with SG and jana. I don't buy into what, I feel, is the media hype of "mommy porn".