SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree!!!!

FEAR...I firmly believe fear of the unknown holds marriages together that truly die the second one cheated.

Its never a mistake to cheat, the mistake that people make is thinking they can handle the emotional fallout.

I loved my exWW, and continued to for many years after the D. However, after I processed all the things that was said and done there was simply no way back. No way to unknow what was known, unhear what was heard, unfeel what was felt.

Two years after the D, we reconnected, as friends. Really enjoyed her company and without expectations we fell into a FWB thing. I soon understood that she wanted "US" again. I couldn't, so I walked away and never looked back.

Ten years, a new wife and kids and still I think back with pain at what happened. How one could stay with someone that pissed all over what was so special. Its beyond my ability.

. A BS is damaged goods, in the trust department. We will never trust anyone fully again. At least with our remorseful WS, we know what we've got. I know how pathetic

I agree we know what we have with the WS remorseful or not. Someone who will take what is most cherished and sought after : A loving, dedicatee spouse, children, financial security and gamble with it. When they chose to have an A because that what they did. They made a conscious decision to say " im ok if I lose all of this for a ONS, a fling or a LTA for the sake of my own selfish needs. Its the " why ask when the answer will be no syndrome when I can always beg for forgiveness later."

They risk giving their spouse an STD and having long lasting damaging effects of their children.

That's what I currently have and all BS have on DD.

Forgive me if my first instinct is to not R and find someone who will honour there VOWS and love there spouse and children unconditionally.

I realise I my have a lot of healing to do whether I R or D. I feel I will heal faster and more completely without the cause of my pain looking in the face everyday.

Reconciling with my cheating wife was the worst mistake of my life. I hate myself for making such a weak-willed decision due to the pain, shame, shock and confusion I was suffering from. I should have stayed no-contact with her for at least 3 months before making a decision. You have a chance to do what's best for YOU so take as much time as you need before you act. Finally, I warn you that you will never forget that she has had sex with another man and the images of that will haunt you for the rest of your life. It never goes away. I urge you to consider this fact when you make your final decision.

:(

I have also seen people try for that without having the single most critical piece - a truly remorseful, committed, and driven WS. Without that? It will never work.

Here it is in a nutshell, the thing us BS's need and cannot do anything about. This is strictly out of our hands,

Hard to admit when you want your BS to stand up and BE THAT courageous person, so hurtful when they can't.

Here it is in a nutshell, the thing us BS's need and cannot do anything about.

I'll disagree here just a little bit, and mostly on semantics. My undergrad degree was in linguistics, though, so arguing semantics was a daily part of that

What I as a BS need is to regain control of my life and to move forward towards a future of my choosing. That's all I need, and from the moment I realized that a lot of the dis-empowering effects of my wife's affair went away.

Now what my marriage needs to survive is a "remorseful, committed, and driven" wife. But, while I very much want my marriage, I don't need it. Almost 6 months out and I still can't decide if that's a depressing realization or an uplifting one.

neverwill, If you open your own thread, you'll get good responses, I bet, but since this is in this thread...

I do believe she would do whatever I ask of her but I do not want to give her direction. Is this wrong? From what I have read if she was truly remorseful she would be seeking advice on how to fix the M and herself not the other way around. Am I wrong?

She can't read your mind. If she asks you what you want/need, she's asking the very best person to give advice to her in this specific situation. Only you know what you want & need.

We can talk about some things that work for many of us, but we're each individuals, and we each have specific wants & needs.

Statistics - The only numbers I believe are from Shirley Glass:

80% of couples in her samples who wanted to R succeeded in R'ing.

My guess is that the 20% who failed just didn't do the necessary work, and my guess is that her sample broke down into 80% R'ed, 19% D'ed because the WS wasn't remorseful, and 1% D'ed because the BS realized the A was really a deal breaker.

neverwill (& PRNDL, too, I think), It's important that you realize you're not at your best. Keep reading. Keep letting your feelings and thoughts flow, although that's awful to experience, and post when you want support, info, advice, or just to vent. Watch what your W does. Look into your gut. Don't jump to a premature decision. Have faith that you'll know what you want and what's possible soon enough.

Statistics - The only numbers I believe are from Shirley Glass:

80% of couples in her samples who wanted to R succeeded in R'ing.

I am sure her stats are valid from her work, but she qualifies it. She is not talking about 80% of all relationships dealing with infidelity. She is talking about the relationships where BOTH partners want the relationship and are willing to put in the work.

She does not address how many relationships overall reconcile (I do not know if she includes *not divorcing* in those stats). It gives false hope to those that do not have a remorseful WS and are trying to R alone. As with anybody trying to sell a book or their services, they put their best numbers forward knowing most people will not ask the important questions to understand what the stats really represent.

So many factors...it depends. I always thought no cheating, ever, or I will leave. Well had my xBF only did it once, and was remorseful, then I'd say more hope. But with multiple PAs, rugsweeping, and denial, honey it's all over.

I didn't post this but I think it was by SISTERMILKSHAKE. It made me think about what she said and I really liked her comment.

I will not give up our family, my spouse of almost 35 years and my love for 38 years, because of a lapse of judgment and bad choices on his part in a very small part of our lives when I look at the Big Picture. He is human, as am I. Yes, some choices are worse than others, but I will not stand in judgment of my FWH. His infidelity will not break me.

OW will not defeat me, I will win, FWH and I will win, our family will win!

I think we take back a cheater because we love them. I think I for one over think things, I see my husbands remorse and tears and all of the nice things that he did prior to his ONS and Im going to listen to this ladys words as I believe this! I want to be happy and only I can make that happen. So Im going to try. Thank you sistermilkshake you made me think today!

this "anyone's" last dealing with a WS (not counting my own H), was quite pleasant, and not one single twinge or cross thought was given.

Not sure what this mean's exactly. If it was someone else viewing you, you don't know what the thoughts were in their head (nor do I, admittedly) If it was you, meeting a wayward, how much, how far, how deeply do you trust him/her? More than most people? More than a valued coworker? Friend?

It is part of him/her, or you, if that's who you're referring to. What you do with that, how you deal and recover are up to you, but simply throwing away your past actions and saying they don't define you anymore doesn't mean the world around you embraces and trusts you fully.

Burned once, shame on you, burned twice, shame on me. I know plenty of people who are polite to an extreme to horrible people, when they walk away, they do their best not to be around them anymore, and they do their best not to give too much information or trust to them. Don't confuse polite with how the rest of the world views a cheater. Is it good you don't let that define you? YES!!! Is it good that you've forgiven yourself or him/her? YES!!! Is it putting your head in the sand that everyone just doesn't think about it anymore and passes zero judgement on you because of the weakness you exhibited? Uh, yes. Those that know remember. They forgive and soften in time, but they remember.

You are what you do. You can judge a person by their actions.

This thread is both depressing and yet uplifting. Many different experiences....

I dint know whether to classifly two affairs as 4 months of hell or an intended event to hurt me. Hard to forgive how he saw what it did to me and chose to do it again. Once a cheater, always? Not sure. Fool me twice shame on me? I guess....

I'm coming late to this thread, but anyway...

I agree with those saying there is no one size fits all scenario. It would be so much easier if there was, because then you'd know exactly what to do. But there isn't.

In my personal experience, as well as lots of reading here, I think there are two different kinds of WS: The ones that as Unagie said, aren't cheaters, but are instead someone who cheated. And then there are those like my XWH, where the phrase "Once a cheater, always a cheater" is completely true. He was unfaithful in every relationship he's ever had, and probably (hopefully?) his relationship with OW will eventually meet the same end. So I think its important to try to figure out which type of WS you have. Is she essentially a good person, and this whole mess just sort of happened, or was she a deceitful, selfish person all along, and its just now come to light?

I also think there are two different kinds of BS: those that can truly get past an A, and those that can't. Nothing bad or wrong about either type, but its essential to do a lot of soul searching and figure out which kind of BS you are. It doesn't matter how remorseful your WS might be, if you are someone for whom the A is deal-breaker, then that's it, and that's okay. Its your option to end it and you shouldn't feel bad about it, IMO.

Last, I think there is a vast difference in betrayals. A drunken ONS is different from a LTA that lasted years. An account on Ashley Madison is different than your WS having an EA with your best friend behind your back. Not saying any of these are "worse" than others, but they are very different. A truly remorseful WS and strong BS might be able to get past a LTA. For others, a ONS might be too much to overcome.

So many factors. So much pain all the way around. From your posts, it sounds to me like your WW is not all that remorseful, and that you might not be able to get past it even if she was. My XWH had zero remorse, but even if he had, I would not have been able to R. Not after a LTA with a woman I knew. But that's just my situation.

((PRNDL))

Sending hugs and strength.

She would not discuss her dalliances (she had a ONS with another guy) as "cheating". She viewed them as a great experience that taught her valuable lessons. And I just came home, swallowed hard and hoped that time would heal the wound. What a fool I was.

He isn't a fool for taking her back.

The circumstances under which he chose to do so are the problem. Ignoring the reality doesn't make it go away.

I have to say I take exception with "judge the actions, not the person." My husband's actions for the 35+ years I knew him before he became a cheater were exactly what I would want from a partner. I came to the realization that he has learned how to act and how to behave, but that is not who he is inside. Inside he is a cheater.

We all have different stories. I chose not to take back the cheater but keep the legal partnership for my benefit. Ending a marriage is a very big decision. There are many factors and they don't all fit one size.

Do what is best for you. You can always change your mind if you go into your decision with your eyes open. (I would advise you keep your finances separate for now.)

MY DD was exactly one month from today so my understanding of these words may be incorrect. please correct me if im wrong.

Transparity = full disclosure,codes to all accounts for me to check at my leisure, answer any and all questions when I ask no matter how uncomfortable it makes WS.

Serial Cheater = a person who has had multiple afairs.

Now my WW had an affair over 18 months, it only stopped because I caught her. now it may have been one person but for a year and half cheating on my everyday. That maybe one A but that is cheating on my everyday. That 540 days of cheating.

These were my WW actions, which would still be going on if I had not caught her in the A. How long does a person have to act a certain way before you can judge them as so?

For me the nail in the coffin is how she chose to spend countless hours with this man daily and neglected our children. Then treated me like shit,gave me the guilt trip. I felt like a i was a single dad and worked full time. I cooked dinner,clean the house and did activities and homework with the kids. Bathed them and put them to bed. Some how I still was not doing enough. I felt like a failure of a husband. All of this

SO she could be up all night with OM and sleep until noon.

MY ww needed to get away so desperately needed time to herself. I took a weeks vacation stayed hiome with my boys for her to spend our family's money which I worked my ass off for. A weeks getaway at a hotel dinners at steak house. She used all of our money to pay for OM.

Sisoon, She can't read your mind. If she asks you what you want/need, she's asking the very best person to give advice to her in this specific situation. Only you know what you want & needs

,

My WW has not ask me what I/we need to do so save our marriage and I will not hold her hand through the process.She needs to show me she wants to work on our marriage or at the very least acknowledge she needs IC to figured out why she had an affair. Doctors/therapist can throw numbers out there about R couples and D couples all day long. Show me the case study and the participants and what criteria the followed. Any mathematician can skew the numbers in there favour.

My WW put her selfish needs first and put my health on the line with possible contracting an STD.

MY children will now be emotionally scared.

I obviously am not perfect and our marriage needed help prior to the A but that's when MC was needed not after you went off and decided to self medicate and neglect thoughs closest to you.

The people who I have spoken to that have successfully R. Are constatnyl checking up on the WS and having their WS check in with them, until trust returns if it ever does. I will choose not to live a life that way.I have two children already I need a partner not another child.

[This message edited by neverwillhapn2me at 1:29 PM, January 18th (Saturday)]

neverwill,

No one here will fault a BS for refusing to accept an A, and no one will fault a BS for choosing D. IMO, one kiss could constitute a deal breaker. You don't have to justify your choice.

It's just that if R is possible or desirable for you, it's best to be clear about your requirements with your W and not hope she will read your mind. JMO.

Kierst, I agree absolutely that we have to be very clear on what any reported statistics mean. Alas, I haven't seen any trustworthy numbers on infidelity in general. Glass's are from the surveys she conducted herself and from her clinical experience - much better sources than the web, where most stats are found on sites that want to sell something.

Glass's are from the surveys she conducted herself and from her clinical experience - much better sources than the web, where most stats are found on sites that want to sell something.

Yes, but she also qualifies her numbers and if people do not read carefully they do not understand the meaning of the numbers. Also, she wrote a book to sell, so she was indeed in it to sell something also.