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Bdell, stop.

That is the same rationalization and justification many of our spouses had. HOW and in what way, is this a healthy choice. Just ask yourself that.

I bet you dollars to donuts your WW will not feel the same way after you bang the young lady in question.

Just. No. It's not healthy. Focus your effort on healing actions, not destructive ones.

There is nothing wrong with ending your marriage over this. Nothing at all. It is your right. This however, will only muddy your recovery.

Couldn't agree more with what everyone else has said.

Why lower yourself? Don't become someone you are not because of what your WW did. That is really giving up.

Stay strong, stay a loyal partner.

Ok then, so if you want to screw the other lady with no strings attached, you should probably start by cutting your own strings.

She might not have strings attached, but you will be dragging your WW along like an anchor on a chain.

Bdell, I see what you're trying to do. Let me reword your paragraph just a wee bit and see what you think.

Let me explain my mindset, if I can. In the past, whenever I had the opportunity to cheat, (and there have been quite a few) I would always think it was a ridiculous idea. After all, I was married to a wonderful guy, who was totally devoted to me, right? So why would I? But since he's been working so much and doesn't ever have time for me or the kids, I have been thinking a lot about what I want from life and whether I want to expend the years of time and effort putting up with him and his constant absence, or finding someone who can appreciate me.

Good reason to cheat? Yeah I don't think so either. But it's what I did. I rationalized myself right out of the marriage.

Considering that my wife has already said that if I had sex with someone else, it wouldn't change her determination to prove her love and devotion to me.

I assure you, that is not the case. You will devastate her. There is no "getting even" with RAs. Many people may call me a hypocrite, but if QS were to confess or get caught cheating on me, after the hell we've been through, I would be done. I couldn't/wouldn't R. He knows the pain and devastation. He knows my whys and choices. For him to toss some woman thru the sheets in an attempt to "get even"? That's cold Brother. I couldn't swallow that bitter pill.

Also considering that the Lady in question, is something of a "free spirit" and wouldn't make demands on me, I'm thinking why would it be so bad? More like a practice run, than an affair.

Danger, danger Will Robinson. AP #3 was a free spirit. Just another dick looking for whatever available hole he could find. I would have been just one of many women he had. He made no demands or had no expectations. Still didn't make it right in any form or fashion for me to do what I did. I would have had to confess to a ONS on top of all the EA crap.

You want a practice run or to sew wild oats, separate and divorce.

I swear to God you will regret this Bdell. Go hang out in the wayward forum. Go read some of the profiles of the Vets. Being a cheater, whether it's a regular old A, a revenge A, a "we're taking a break" A, or whatever. It's all self-betrayal. And it blows. Bad.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 5:00 PM, January 24th (Friday)]

Bdell, don't do it. We've all thought about it in some fashion. Here's the thing - those 'mind movies' you have of your WW and AP? You'd give those to her. Those triggers? Yup, those too. She will have everything you have, and also the feeling that she can't say anything because she did it first. People that have affairs are already messed up. Do you really want to pile on by giving her this to live with on top of living with her own issues?

If you don't care if the M works out, go for it. Sure, you'll be labeled a cheater, but you'll have the 'she did it first' mantra, and most would understand that. They'd see the two of you as a messed up mess, but that's a different story.

But, if you care, if you want R, then don't do it. It will not help in any way. It won't assist in getting your marriage on track. It won't assist in getting you to where you want to be. It just won't. It will only multiply the problem.

Ask yourself this - imagine for a minute you've had sex with this OW - who, btw, sounds lovely, telling a married man she's ready to fuck if he is - imagine you've seen her naked, felt her against you, had the little giggles and all the things that lead to sex and happen after. You've done all of it. Do you feel better? Do you feel less pain because your wife cheated? Did screwing this pillar in the community make you feel whole?

Don't do it Bdell. There's nothing at the bottom of this bottle but the bottom. Don't dive in head first.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 5:36 PM, January 24th (Friday)]

Bdell

it sounds like your have already crossed boundaries with the potential OW.

Why replace integrity with shame?

It will certainly help destroy your chance of R, if that's what you want?

Your WW giving you permission shows how much her self esteem is in the shitter. IMHO, she seriously needs to work on that. By cheating on her, you will help confirm that she is not important to you.

Come read in Wayward. I assure you, the dark side has no cookies.

I'd like to think Bdell 2.0, say a year from now, will look back on Bdell of this thread and "wow...I can't believe I thought and came across like that".

You have been given exceptional advice, experience, and strength. Are your listening ears on?

Don't become a wayward. We don't want you there. More importantly, YOU don't want YOU there.

Ego kibbles are like Fruit Loops. Empty calories. Zero nutritional value.

You've told us you're good looking. You've told us a younger hottie desires you. I guess I'm wondering what are YOU telling YOU?

I for one won't lose any sleep over do you or don't you bang the girl who is willing to have sex with a married guy who is clearly angry, in crisis, hurt, sad, and scared. That won't impress me.

You doing the right thing? That will duly impress me. Dazzle the shit out of me. Because that takes guts, class, and a hell of a lot more balls than I, or any wayward husband, has.

You're better than this. And deep down you know it.

JD

Listen man, your are married, until you are not. I'm generally an 'eye-for-an-eye' kind of guy, but that's not going to be your situation, I can almost guarantee. There are a ton of issues at play here.

Let's say that you carry out the revenge affair/ONS as means of getting back at your wife and leveling the playing field. In the absolute best case scenario, you feel 100% even, and she feels like she got what she deserved, and then you move on....except then that opens up a whole new can of worms about your value system, such as: Why am I OK with using other people(OW) as weapons to hurt those who have hurt me? This is not a "she hit me first, so I hit her back"-type scenario, because in order to hit her back you have to manipulate, use, and then discard a third party....are you OK with that? Is that really the kind of person you want to be?

Also, as some others have probably pointed out (tl;dr), while she may very well be hurt by your actions, she probably won't be surprised. Only one person gets the sucker punch, you know? Every blow after that you kind of expect.

Finally, you have the moral high ground right now: do not trade even an inch of altitude for a little bit of validation and payback.

bdell,

I'm sure she is NOT a free spirit, I'm sure she would want more, she would continue to up the ante and find stuff you have in common as an excuse to text & email you to reel you in and if you reject her she will not accept it.

"free spirit" is typical OW meme. I'm sure you know this on some level. She does not really want you to use her body for pleasure nor does she see you as just a good time.

Please de-fog your affair glasses. If you want to leave your wife, file for divorce.

I agree with this poster:

Why did I not have an RA? Because I did not want to be like them. I want to be like me. I don't do that

Bdell,

I'd really have to question:

Why this woman thinks she even has the right to be discussing having sex with you - married man?

That's really a blurring of boundaries, in my opinion.

but I have been told by quite a few women that I'm good looking, and have been "hit on" numerous times over the years

In the past, whenever I had the opportunity to cheat, (and there have been quite a few)

Gently, I can't decide if you sound more like an insecure wayward or Ron Burgundy. Are you "kind of a big deal?" Maybe a topic for IC? I imagine you can think of more healthy and fulfilling ways to rebuild your confidence/self esteem other than having an affair. You're better than that; you wouldn't be here doing the work if you weren't.

Lookit, I WAS a loyal partner. I was a doting husband and lover. I have worked my ass off to provide for my family and to raise myself above poverty, terrible, terrible, poverty. I can do anything I want, be anything I want, because I have always done the right thing and worked like a dog. I don't expect applause, just to be treated honestly. So....look where my loyalty got me. Having the moral high ground is very cold comfort, right now. My wife snuck around and drank from another cup. Repeatedly. So I am bad when I want a sip? Not behind her back, not lying, not deceiving, but up front and open. I do not want to punish my wife, but I am seriously regretting all of the times I could have drank from other cups , myself.

I probably won't go through with it, but I am NOT going to spend 3, 4, or 5 years living like this. She had better get her ass in gear, it is up to her to get it done. I have done my part. I will do no more than give her the chance.

Steppenwolf, I am a self made man. I am pretty much everything I say I am. I'm not bragging, but telling the truth. If you knew my background you would agree. I haven't lost confidence, nor have I lost my self esteem. what I have lost is my belief in my wife. So, because I am a self made man, she needs to be a self made woman.

So I am bad when I want a sip?

I will say it is a bad choice. Please look over everything you just wrote. It all boils down to one word. Entitled. You feel her A entitles you to have an a A yourself. I'm sorry but describing it as a RA (i.e. revenge affair) does not make it any better. If you do not want to R or if you sincerely want to pursue other women then you should D first. I did not keep my vows because of what my xww did or didn't do. I didn't keep them because of where it got me. I kept them because that is who I am and no one else defines my integrity but me. My xww's actions especially did not define me.

I understand that you are in an incredible amount of pain. I meant no ill will.

If you think your work is done, that's your choice. Good luck.

As for the insecurity deal, I assumed (wrongly I guess) that since you twice felt the need to point out how women find you attractive and how you've had many opportunities to have affairs, you were most likely looking for some of us to acknowledge that, thus giving you a boost in the ego department. I was just giving you something to think about. Sorry if I was off the mark.

I have worked my ass off to provide for my family and to raise myself above poverty, terrible, terrible, poverty. I can do anything I want, be anything I want, because I have always done the right thing and worked like a dog.

Me too.

if you want to be exactly like your wife, go find some trash and roll in it. Nobody is stopping you.

eta:

I probably won't go through with it, but I am NOT going to spend 3, 4, or 5 years living like this. She had better get her ass in gear, it is up to her to get it done. I have done my part. I will do no more than give her the chance.

This is completely, totally and absolutely a reasonable attitude. Nobullshit.

Take control, take responsibility. Being a good man is brutal. Don't feel guilty for walking away from a bullshit situation. Better that than compromising yourself, imo.

Sorry you are in this place. It sucks.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:37 AM, January 25th (Saturday)]

No problem, Steppenwolf, I was just trying to explain that I have had my chances too, but chose not to cheat. I don't need an ego boost, I need an understanding boost. LOL

I get where bdell is coming from. I would like to know what another woman would be like to have sex with, what her body would feel like. It wouldn't be revenge or anything. Maybe just a check on whether I am in R because I am whipped. I expressed this to me WW tonight.

OK, let me put it another way. I have been visiting the Wayward forum and a constant refrain I hear is how the WS (after the affair) realizes how much he/she loves her spouse, and how important his/her marriage is to him/her. How they NOW understand what they risked and that their marriage is worth fighting for, that the grass isn't necessarily greener, etc, etc.

So my point is, if she has seen what is on the other side of the fence, realizes that she doesn't want it, and if she does the work , our marriage should be better, right? so I am saying, how is it bad for me to have the same opportunity? If we were not talking about adultery but a crap game, if she craps out, why can't I roll the dice?

I think that one of the biggest barriers to reconciliation is the unfairness of it all. I know that many will tell me life isn't fair, but for a person of my color, justice, equality and fair play are extremely important. I think that the Harley's are right about the idea of just restitution.

Thanks a LOT!! Jack. I am glad that somebody understands.

I have had sex with my wife 4 times since D day. After each time, I felt ashamed and dirty. The thought of another man being in her, and desiring her, JUST LIKE I DID, made me feel soiled. And my need for her and my need for sex makes me feel ashamed. The idea of having a night to JUST be a man with a woman, no strings, no thoughts of the affair, sounds pretty good.