SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bob, how strong is your proof?

Pictures, texts, what?

No matter what, you have to get the affair to stop. During the affair, your wife is like another person, a person on drugs and addicted to the affair.

It is called the fog, and the only to get them out of this so-called fog is reality, hard truths coming out them from all sides. Parents possibly, the OM wife certainly.

Find a way, tell the wife.

This isn't a question of boundaries or leverage. It is a question of ethics. She deserves to know. To hide it is to be complicate.

You can message her on FB, you can find her home and waite till she comes home, you can track down her email address...

Frankly, you may learn a lot from talking to her.

The only leverage you have will come from being strong and firm and unyielding. She must come clean, go no contact and focus on helping you recover.

If she doesn't agree, let her know know that you are going to change the locks on the doors and expose the affair. You are not going to knock her out of the fog by being nice or by being a door mat. It won't work.

Shine harsh light of reality on her tawdry affair, let her and the world see it as the dirty little thing it is. By that I mean her her family know, let friends know - expose her. Done right, everyone except her immediate family will support you.

Let her know that you won't stand for this.

Let us know how it goes.

ps see a lawyer, and get some help - find a therapist whom you can talk to.

when i saw me he froze for a second, looked like he was going to try and run, but instead i just hi, and i thought he was so nervous he was going to cry...he didnt even say anything coherent, just mumbled something

This is what you described with recent encounter with the OM, correct?

This OM is scared shitless because YOU know about the A. Your WW is probably telling him "don't worry, I can handle bob."

So why is the OM scared? I'm betting that his wife either has no clue or hasn't confronted him about it yet. I'm betting the OM is scared you are going to expose this to his wife, then his boss.

You need to tell OM's wife ASAP.

This encounter was before "i knew". I had suspicions for awhile, but ignored the sign and made excuses. This was the trigger event for me to open my eyes. I was good at making excuses for my wife, but not this guy.

I am still making excuses not to contact OM wife.

Sigh. I dont even know what the steps are with confronting my wife more. Maybe its me telling her the affair needs to stop, if it hasn't. The whole no contact agreement. This is complicated with them working together.

He obviously knows he was doing something wrong. I'm sure he is worried shitless you're going to tell his wife.

In my situation, the OM's wife came to me and exposed. She gave me print out of their texts and icloud messages. I was in denial at first, but I am forever grateful she had the courage to tell me what was going on. I was being gas lighted the entire time of XW and OM fling, thinking something was wrong with me, shouldering the decline of the marriage in full. Had I known what was going on it would have been VERY clear to me what I needed to do, the first being getting pissed at the XW instead of trying to nice her.

The OM's wife may be in same situation, going nuts trying to figure out why her husband is being such a detached asshole to her. She is probably agonizing over what to do, wondering why he is being like this? Give her the truth so she can start taking control of things on her end. What she does after you tell her and show her evidence is up to her. When you do contact her, be matter of fact as if you are presenting evidence in court. Leave her your contact info and let her digest the information. Tell her she can contact you at anytime when she is ready to hear more or give you info in return.

This is complicated with them working together.

Not at all, your wife quits her job and finds a new one as soon as possible.

Otherwise it is very unfair to you for her to continue working there.

But, just because she quits her job does not mean the affair cannot or will not continue, but it will be much harder for her to find ways to lie to be with him after work and on weekends.

Her quitting her job, one of the consequences of having an affair. Too bad. She should start looking for a new job today.

My evidence is good, but if someone wanted to be in denial its possiblethey could not believe there is enough.

I still think its solid. I dont want to put the details out here though.

I occasionally waiver, but then slap myself out of denial. The evidence is unique because the most damning part is text from the OM's friend. But names are mentions and events.

OM could get different job too, haha. He actually just officially started there, was just helping her area before (which was likely how the emotional side started).

God damnit

My evidence is good, but if someone wanted to be in denial its possiblethey could not believe there is enough.

Maybe so, but it got the gears turning in my head when I was in denial. I started putting together my own time line of all the things my XW did and how she behaved and the details started fall in place and it all started to make sense.

You may never know. The OM may have done this before at his previous job and his wife found out and made him quit as a consequence. This maybe strike two, or three, or four for him.

OM in my situation had an A before in his marriage. They are now getting a contested D, BTW. He had so much shit on his plate with his D to deal with that he threw my XW under the bus.

I still think its solid. I dont want to put the details out here though.

It might help if you told us what the evidence is without names, events, etc.

That is the problem, it sounds like the evidence is not enough for your wife to be backed into the corner.

So now, why not try and get better evidence that your wife or anyone can back out of.

Is your evidence of an EA or PA type?

Like JDuff said, his wife might be wondering the exact same thing you are. His wife might have real evidence that could help you. Or his wife might think you are full of it.

That is why you have to approach her very delicately and see how it goes.

So proof....

Phone stuff. There is one text message from him that has heart symbol u. So/so proof of emotional part.

There are lots of phone calls in the 15 min range at 9 in evenings and weekend. Could be dismissed as work related....but there are 3 lengthly phone conversations while he was away on vacation for over a week.

I realize the above is so/so, but there are messages from the wife with OM's friend. This is the real proof.

In brief, one about the two sharing hotel room (ww and OM, not OM's friend)

Conversation about how great the OM is. Conversation about things sexual in nature, (going to try for round X later), and two other messages, one mention sexual act and other describing body part. While these messages are from my wife to OM's friend its clear its about OM and WW.

One other message was about how much see will miss him while he is on vacation

Solid proof? The only denial i can see is its emotional affair and they were joking around. I think its solid, but you only see what you want to see.

I'd hold your horses, as difficult as it is because right now you really don't have anything tying OM directly to your wife, only messages from her to her friend, he can easily deny it as the fantastical ramblings of a mad woman writing to her friend.

But

They are communicating somehow, that is the key. So do they regularly go for these conferences etc? Where do you think they meet? (besides at work)

If you can hire a PI to tail her and collect evidence of them meeting. You want solid proof because if you alert them they'll just take it underground.

Main communication is snap chat. I think there is an IM feature. I think it deletes automatically too like pictures.

Sneaking around after work isnt really happening any more but was. I think the main time is lunch time at work.

[This message edited by bobiv at 9:38 PM, September 27th (Saturday)]

I think that's plenty there to indicate inappropriate behavior and conversation. I would show it to OM'S wife, give her the heads up, let her start snooping on her end.

[This message edited by Jduff at 5:05 PM, September 27th (Saturday)]

Is the OMs friend a male or female.

Did your wife say she was in a motel with the OM?

If so, that is pretty damning evidence.

Is there any way you can ask this friend anything?

Do you know the motel? If so, call up as the OM and say you wonder if you can get a receipt for the time there because you lost it, or can they email you the receipt. Be very nice.

It might work.

When were they in the motel, day, night? Where should your wife have been when in the motel.

You have two options, confront your wife now with a no nonsense approach and tell her you have had enough. Tell her you know she was in a motel with OM....but DO NOT tell her how you know.

She knows she was, let her wonder how you know. DO NOT tell her how you know anything.

At this point, if she was in a motel, she can hardly deny it to you.

Unless she is a hard core liar.

Or you can gather more evidence. Others on here can tell you how to undelete pics and texts far better than I can.

The friend is male. The wife was away with her friend (different then the text exchange one...confusing enough yet). They were supposed to share a hotel room...but

The exchange was basically saying they were sharing a suite room (3 of them), the friend was staying in the living room while WW and OM would have the bedroom.

Wife told me (or led me to believe) she was staying with her friend.

This event is the only evidence of a physical affair (more texts that talk about sex) but given this seemed like a pretty hot and heavy emotional affair before hand, i dont it was one and done (this may have been the first time they took it to sex)

I might try to get more info, bit not much more i can do. I have enough for me and to catch her in a lie. I also plan to keep my source hidden.

You have way more than you need to confront your wife, in my opinion. The only reason that you would really need to gather more evidence is to (1) pin your WW in an inescapable corner, or (2) you are gathering information for a contested divorce.

You KNOW by the facts that you have that your wife has lied to you. You KNOW that her behavior is inappropriate. You KNOW that she is cheating on you emotionally, if not also physically.

This is not a court of law. You don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Hell, it is often hard enough to get information that reaches the "reasonable doubt" level. Often, it is gut instincts that are telling you that something is wrong in your marriage.

I have read through your other thread. I know that you are trying to find absolution before you take action. And while I agree that you shouldn't go off half-cocked in a confrontation, you have to accept that you are in a stalling pattern right now. You are *looking* for something that puts it all together in an explainable package....that will make all the puzzle pieces fit together. The problem with that is that infidelity is cruel and confusing. You are still wrestling with the fact that the one person that you cherished above all others has stabbed you in the back. You are lost and confused because.....that is what happens to ALL betrayed spouses upon discovery.

What you need to focus on is your self-worth. Looking from the outside, it is very easy to stand up to your WW upon confrontation. All you need to do is DEMAND that you be treated the same way that you have treated her. You DEMAND to have an open and honest relationship----something that any healthy marriage should have. You DEMAND to have commitment to the marriage, which only includes you, her, and your children....if any. Basically, you are DEMANDING things that neither of you should ever have to even mention.

But the reality is that it is often very hard to confront. You can thank that to the fact that you have not only been emotionally gutted, but your confidence and self-esteem have been reduced to nothing. And we understand that. But that doesn't make it any less necessary that you find your righteous anger, and use it properly....NOW.

Contact the other man's wife. Confront your wife. Do not accept anything less than her total acceptance of blame....even if you feel like a pompous ass. You certainly have faults of your own in the marriage...and you can look at them later...but there is ZERO EXCUSE for her doing what she has done to you, the marriage, or the other man's betrayed wife and her marriage. As long as you keep repeating these thoughts in your head, you can keep yourself on track.

And what if she is *driven* to the other man by your actions? That is nothing more than fear talking---you can ask any thousands of members here, and they will tell you how that is exactly how they felt when they just found out. I guarantee that when your own head clears, you will see how misguided this thought-process is. If she leaves you for the other man, there was NOTHING that you could have done to stop it---except to continue to live in your newly found open marriage.

It is the strength and resolve that your wife will respond to more than any other action that you take.

In a nutshell, all you have to do is stand up for what is morally right. Very easily said.....very difficult to act upon. But very true.

You can do this. It is time to take action.

Thanks. I have quasi-contronted her.

I told her i know about her and other man. she played dumb, so an.implied denial.

I need to reconfront maybe. maybe try to get more out of her or be clearer. not sure.

No idea. Sigh

The emphasis on "proof" always puzzles me. If someone wants to deny, photos of their spouses in flagrante delicto will be denied.

You don't need to build a case that will hold up in court. You DO need to confront your spouse and notify OMW that her husband is cheating with your wife. (The latter is nearly non-negotiable, IMO; I think it's morally reprehensible not to do so, unless there is a VERY compelling reason for that decision.)

You have all the evidence you need.

How to confront your wife? By DOING it, not by quasi-doing it.

"Wife, I know you're having an affair with OM. Here's what I need from you if I am to stay in this marriage. I need for you to have NO contact with him; if this requires going to HR to arrange no professional contact or switching jobs, so be it. If you do not make arrangements to end professional dealings with him by <insert date>, I will do tell HR <or insert name of individual, like a supervisor> myself on <insert date>. This is a natural consequence of being foolish enough to conduct a workplace affair. I also will require full transparency, including access to all of your electronics---now. You may not have time to erase communications. I will expect you to attend IC, and when you reach remorse and a point where you are willing to do what it takes to mend the damage done, then we will both attend MC. You are either in, or out. Until you make your decision--and I suggest you make it rapidly, because it's got an expiration date, you will sleep in the guest room."

Simple. Not easy, but simple.

Note: DO NOT notify her of your intent to tell OMW. Just do that. Perhaps right before you confront your wife, so that stories about the psycho husband can't be aligned.

The woman is having an AFFAIR. How much worse do you think it can get? Answer: not even a little. Your marriage is already over. All that remains to be seen is whether you will be able to build a new one. That is hugely contingent on HER willingness to commit to R. I am sensing you are afraid she won't commit. I understand that feeling--I have a spouse who would not (and with whom I did the same semi-confrontation dance until ...well, until I imploded). Wouldn't it be better to climb out of your head and find out if your imaginings are accurate? If she'll commit, you can move forward toward R. If not, as sad as it will be, YOU will be able to move forward constructively.

Limbo is the worst possible place to occupy.