SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bigger - As always, thanks so much for your posts. Always designed to keep me on the right track.

I don‘t think infidelity entitles us to revenge.

...only to divorce her so that she has consequences for the affair.

I agree. It's not about revenge. I do have a lot of anger and because she inflicted the pain it's directed at her (and at POS). In my head I think "where's the justice?" It's not productive, but at times my head goes to dark palces and that's when these thoughts percolate.

If you decide to reconcile then I don’t see how that can be done if you feel entitled to wave the infidelity card at your convenience. The goal of R is to create a healthy relationship with open communications and transparency that diminishes the likelihood of a repeat infidelity.

I agree in principle. I don't think it should be "Hey, I thought you were going to pick up milk on the way home?" "F-U! You had an affair!"

I do think that the infidelity can and should be brought up for productive purposes, and I consider expressing feelings of pain, anger, depression, etc., and working through them, and ascribing the trigger for them (the affair), appropriate.

Reconciliation where your wife takes a secondary place in the relationship… Sort of always walks three steps behind you…

I agree. Why would I want to stay married to someone who only resembles my wife?

As to the rest of your post - excellent advice. Thank you.

Not bad at all W.

Feel the pain. Use the pain.

For the positive.

You are getting there.

Hobbes - You have a PM with my draft results. Didn't want to bother anyone else with that.

Hang in there, she is doing all the right things. It took my FWH 3 years to do all the right things.

I am finally starting to be able to see my H in the entire 27 year relationship not just the A time and see that he is worth the risk of trying again. The progress has been very slow but steady moving forward. You also found SI right away and that is a huge difference on how R can go. Hugs to you and your family.

I hate that song now, too. Didn't use to.

Walloped, this part of the roller coaster is particularly frightening. You'll find triggers lurking just about everywhere. You're still new to all of this, and triggers are likely very barbed and hurtful.

Over time, you'll deal with them better. I keep telling myself that triggers only have the power I give to them.

For us, a song trigger is "So Happy Together" by The Turtles. Y'see, in the texts I found, the two lovebirds were texting those lyrics back & forth to each other. Now, that song is on TV ads and the radio..there's no getting away from it. But I've worked hard to not give it power.

We had a nice weekend visiting my son at the shore. Triggers there? Sure! Sailboats freakin everywhere. OM took fWW out on his (mildewy) sailboat for their various rendezvous (spelling?-plural?)

Deep breath! (<---message to self).

Walloped, EMDR therapy really helped me a lot with the triggers.

It gets better. And yeah, that song sucks ass.

I've always hated that song as well.

When I read your description of what happened, I got tears in my eyes. I totally agree with your brother. She had a gut reaction to stop your pain. That's a good thing.

Not making a judgment that it should point you in any direction. Just that it seems like remorse.

Gosh Walloped, why did they have to do what they did?!?!!? Fuck!

Put me down for another "hate that song" vote. Just a couple days ago it came on the radio while I was driving. I was kinda singing along with it, cuz, you know, it's one of those songs you sing along with. Then, like you, I started thinking about the lyrics. Turned off the damn radio.

In my head I think "where's the justice?"

Unfortunately, "there ain't no justice."

he told me something I hadn’t thought of. He said this was a positive.

He's right.

All in all, not too bad.

I'm glad your BBQ went mostly OK. And no, not too bad. What Canoe and the others are saying is all true. There will be things out of the blue that just set you off. In the beginning there will be more of them and it will be pretty intense. With time, and working through them, they will be fewer, and less intense. That's you healing. It sounds like your family is really supporting the both of you, and that's great. You both need that kind of support system.

I‘ll tell you another positive:

Not a single person at that BBQ over the age of 20 came there because of the burgers or franks.

It’s all love and support and their openness shows it’s for both of you.

You have a great support network.

Use it but don’t overuse it.

I have been following in the background since about a week ago. I would like to note a couple of things, a couple of which have already been mentioned.

It does not matter whether you choose to R or D, you will have triggers. One path may prolong the process, but they will be there. You are handling them well, despite how you may feel in the moment. As HM said, embrace the pain. Or as we used to say in the military, embrace the suck. The sooner you do that, the sooner your healing truly begins.

Your brother is right. In the moment, when people were scrambling to turn the music down, or standing there staring while looking uncomfortable, your wife's snap reaction was to help you. This is one (of many I might add) strong indicators from your wife that make her worthy of reconciliation.

That said, only you can reach that decision. But when you do reach it, do so with both feet, knowing that you are in for a world of hurt, but also knowing that the reward is worth the risk. You must also reach that decision knowing that you will be leading a reconciliation. Your wife may be required to carry you from time to time (especially in triggers), but you ultimately must be the strong one; the one to set trajectory; to set requirements; to carry her through the darkness into the light.

A wise poster, from another message board similar to this one, once told me this in response to the "just divorce them" crowd:

"'The burden is on the wayward spouse' is the mantra? Eh, no. If they were too weak to not cheat, how in the **** can the lead a betrayed spouse back to health? How can the broken help fix the betrayed spouse? It does not work that way. Instead, the betrayed spouses are being coached to stay in the victim chair."

Walloped, you are demonstrating the strength and humility to properly carry reconciliation. You are spotting the victim chair (even though you are not calling it that) and standing up from it before it becomes too comfortable.

From my vantage point, your wife is demonstrating remorse and honesty; more than nearly any of the hundreds of threads I have read and participated in on other boards.

If reconciliation is going to happen, it will be by your leadership and strength.

I will humbly step to the background again and watch your situation with interest.

Good luck, brother.

If reconciliation is going to happen, it will be by your leadership and strength.

Probably very true.

Your leadership will come in the form of letting her know exactly what your needs are.

Your strength (if, and when you give her the gift of reconciliation) will awe her. And it should.

I think you may be a distance from deciding anything at this point....that's also probably good.

I totally agree. ^^^^^^

Patience Walloped.

I completely agree with all your posts.

And I want to want to reconcile (no - that wasn't a typo). And I'm most of the way to really wanting it. I obviously need to know where she's at and that she's safe for me to want to reconcile with. Baby steps.

Here's the scary part. I recognize that the heavy lifting will need to be on me, which in many ways sucks, and I honestly don't know if I am strong enough for it. If I choose to reconcile, I would want to do it in the way Bigger referenced before, and not lashing out, causing pain, etc. But I can almost guarantee that it'll happen anyway. I just can't see it not. And it's terrifying.

Regarding my family, they've been amazing. They've all told me they hate what she did (except for my BIL - we haven't discussed it. I think he's more uncomfortable than I am), but they don't hate her. I'm proud to be part of ths family.

Gosh Walloped, why did they have to do what they did?!?!!?

Valentine - I really wish I knew. And it drives me crazy. sigh

Gosh Walloped, why did they have to do what they did?!?!!?

Because they're broken, and keep insisting that they aren't.

Fuck!

Not before STD testing, thanks.

Hi Walopped!

Glad you survived the BBQ. Those damn triggers come out of nowhere - if you're a "glass half full" kind of guy you can be thankful you weren't in a public place when it happened.

I recognize that the heavy lifting will need to be on me

Ummmmm.....no? Heavy lifting maybe because you are bigger than her, so for you to carry yourself, it's heavy lifting. She has to be responsible for her own part in R and walk beside you, if not a step or two in front clearing out the shit she has thrown down.

It is not your job to carry or assist her through this process. If you're going to do it, your job is to take care of you and not impede the process so that her efforts improve the relationship as well.

Hello Walloped!

I see the BBQ had a moment, so it went down almost without a hitch! OK is better than horrible or excruciating!

Yes your family is awesome, and the quick recover of the BBQ is a testimonial to that. Glad it turned out well in the end! All's well that ends well!

About the song, I know ever one has given their vote, I choose to be Switzerland - neutral. When you listen at first it seems like its about committing adultery, but if you read the lyrics in full or listen carefully to the end, the woman who took out the add that he goes to meet, turns out to be his wife! I am not saying I like the song or the idea behind it, but its really about how both parties thought they wanted something else and in the process found each other! Just saying, maybe too much of me being devils advocate! I will shut that bit off now!

I think Nekorb is right on the heavy lifting, although that does not mean you won't have your own fair share to do, but both have to be committed to working through if R is the option...and I see you want to want it (and didn't read that as a typo) Its not easy being you or a BS! At least though you have a real shot at R, based on what I have read.

Your post reminded me of when I was in MC with my first H before we separated. I still remember some of the basic principles he espoused (Adlerian school of thought)

He said:

1. Each party must give 100 percent, not 50 or 75 or anything less than the full 100 and it must be reciprocal; and

2. You can't prove love, its a leap of faith and trust.

Well the T is what has been wounded, and shit it takes a long time to heal from a breach of T. My quandary is whether I will be able to T anyone the way I T'd him, ever again! Your quandary is whether you will ever be able to fully T your W again! I hope I can and I hope you can too!

All is know at this moment in time, is that I can T myself to take care of myself and my kids!

So now you have experienced a trigger, and while you might not have been your cool composed level headed self, its totally understandable! Dude, don't be so hard on yourself! Now I guess you just need to learn your coping mechanism to reduce triggers, first their duration and then their frequency. Mrs. Walloped did demonstrate good judgement IMHO when she observed how the song was making you feel, she asked it be turned off!

(((Walloped)))) Music is a horrible trigger, at least it is for me! In the last 3-4 weeks it seems almost every song on the particular radio station I listen to while driving is somehow related to a breakup and either one lover's lament of what they lost or how they messed up and want them back! The trigger happens when its a song we both shared and liked over the years. Sometimes just turn it off! That's all you can do! I believe you will recognize the triggers when they happen and will use the tools you develop with your IC to cope throught them and hopefully reduce them.

So much good has been achieved by you! Now that labour day is over and kids are back to school there is some semblance of routine that is coming into play ...Keep up the good work, you are doing so much better, and believe it or not, all the good advice is really helping me too, so Thanks, to all the good folks out there in SI, your support is most appreciated.

I wish you All the best ((Walloped))

WTTS

And I want to want to reconcile

I get what you're saying.

And I'm most of the way to really wanting it.

When you make that decision you'll need to be 100% in, as will she. It wont work if one party is only partly committed. I'm not saying that you should trust her implicitly like you probably did before the A. It's going to take time to rebuild a level of trust.

I recognize that the heavy lifting will need to be on me

I guess it depends on what you mean by "heavy lifting." In my opinion, the hard work is going to be on her. To prove that she's safe, gotten to the bottom of her "reason why" and fixed it so that she's not vulnerable to being a repeat offender, and deserves some level of trust from you eventually. Each of your IC's will probably have something to say about when the two of you are ready to start MC and "working on the marriage."

and not lashing out, causing pain, etc. But I can almost guarantee that it'll happen anyway.

And it will happen. You can put money on that. And she's going to have to suck it up, realizing where it's coming from and that it doesn't mean that you hate her.

Walloped, why is it that you have to do the heavy lifting ???

Not being critical but just trying to understand... I would think that she needs to do it....

Your BIL is in a tough situation. Not sure if he's trying to avoid pissing off the SIL or if he just doesn't want to get involved. Next time, ask him directly his thoughts.. put him on the spot see what he says JMO

And I want to want to reconcile (no - that wasn't a typo). And I'm most of the way to really wanting it.

If I choose to reconcile, I would want to do it in the way Bigger referenced before, and not lashing out, causing pain, etc.

I understand your temptation to R. You have a great family and your wife is showing glimpses of the woman you married. However I would require some accommodation to reach the point of never bringing up the affair as Bigger suggests.

The only way I could do that is to divorce her and continue to live with her. Before you dismiss this out of hand let me explain. She wasn’t a great wife but she could be a great girlfriend.

It would be like someone with a top secret security clearance demonstrating that they can’t be trusted with top secret information. Downgrade their clearance to confidential.

What would drive me crazy would be looking at my wife years later and realizing that she’s in the same place and doing what she would be doing if she had never cheated.

Yes she said she was sorry, cried and was taken to the woodshed emotionally but that’s over. She had her fun vacation and will have those memories forever.

People today have a family and raise kids without ever being married. There is no stigma. Why does a woman that betrayed you have to be your wife? What’s wrong with her becoming your best friend over time and raising your family together?

If I was divorced there would be less reason to remind my ex-wife that she cheated. I could look at her having a good time at a family function and not resent her. It would be much easier to refrain from “lashing out, causing pain, etc.”

[This message edited by Graywolf at 10:41 PM, September 8th (Tuesday)]

I guess I need to explain what I meant by "heavy lifting." Of course she must do all the things a WW needs to do to show she's working toward becoming safe and trustworthy and a fWW. And that's on her. But I need to get to the right place emotionally where I can accept, one day forgive, deal, not lash out, wallow in self pity, throw out the "you had an affair" card at every turn, keep the anger in check, allow her to be a wife and not a sniveling lapdog. When some parts of me wants to do all of those things. That's heavy lifting. She has to deal with shame and guilt and knowing she caused me tremendous pain and betrayed the person she professes to love. I need to live with the fact that she did this to me, to our kids, and yet still rely on her to help me heal.

I call that heavy lifting.

Wantthistostop - I inow the guy ends up with his wife in the song, but that's just a "happy" accident. She was bored, and instead of talking to her husband, put an ad in the paper to have an affair. Yesterday's version of Ashley Madison or Craigslist. So did he. More normal reaction would have been a "what the fuck are you doing here?" conversation followed by a separation. Truth is, the two of them deserve each other. Yes, and it's all for nothing becUse they had what they really wanted all along. They were just too stupid to see it. Sigh. Sorry.

Not before STD testing, thanks.

setecastronomy - I was drinking when I read that and almost coated my monitor with diet peach snapple!

Graywolf -

However I would require some accommodation to reach the point of never bringing up the affair as Bigger suggests

.

I don't think Bigger was suggesting never to bring it up. Not to speak for him, but I took his meaning as to not bash her over the head with it as a weapon whenever I feel like it. If she burnt the toast, I don't get to say, "and you had an affair too!" And if I forgot to throw out the garbage, she should be able to tell me that I forgot without me answering back with a "oh yeah? Well, you had an affair, so FU." However, bringing up the affair for productive purposes such as helping healing, setting appropriate boundaries, avoiding triggers, etc., seems what we should do.

What would drive me crazy would be looking at my wife years later and realizing that she’s in the same place and doing what she would be doing if she had never cheated.

If we reconciled, I hope to God that won't happen, because if it did, it would mean reconciliation failed. I would hope she is a very different person years from now, one who could never betray me again, and is living her life very differently to show it.

She had her fun vacation and will have those memories forever.

From what I've read from many fWW's, this is very far from reality. They do not have happy memories. Quite the opposite. Their memories haunt them and disgust them. They are constant reminders of the pain they inflicted and the harm they caused. If my wife views those memories as fun or something to think of fondly, then our reconciliation will have failed.

Why does a woman that betrayed you have to be your wife? What’s wrong with her becoming your best friend over time and raising your family together?

Nothing. And if it works for some, great. I guess it comes down to what I want out of reconciliation should I choose it. I want a wife. My wife. Hopefully a better wife. But a wife nonetheless. If I can't have her be my wife out of convenience or cause it'll be challenging, then I have t reconciled with her. At least not in my mind.