SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BTA,

However he has feelings for this other woman and he doesn't know if we can resolve our issues that existed prior to the cheating.

Gently, if your WH has feelings for this other woman, he is still in the affair, or in the fog as some put it.

The issues prior to the affair, cannot be dealt with until the affair is dealt with. All those issues are a form of blame shifting and rug sweeping.

Remember, the affair is 100% his responsibility. Do not let these "previous issues" become a reason, excuse etc for his shitty behavior to have an affair. You are in the same marriage with the same previous issues, and you did not cheat.

This is seen here often, previous issues become the "reason" for the affair. That is complete bull shit.

example:

"Not getting enough attention from you, so I went out and got attention elsewhere."

Is this the way a adult in a marriage handles a problem with the marriage? How about communicating your unhappiness, discussing it, getting counselling and finally separation/divorce if it cannot be fixed?

Having an affair to fix issues in the marriage, is like putting gasoline on a fire in hopes it will go out. Crazy wayward thinking

He's still testing you. I applaud you for making a big effort even if it was not appreciated or reciprocated. You showed him how it's done. He can get with it and try to understand what's going on with himself now. Yes, he's caught in a fantasy where he idealized. Time to go cold turkey off the affair contact/ daydreaming. The foggy head wears off. If he sees himself as not having the internal strength to struggle through this do you think he will choose the easy selfish path again? He's got to look hard at himself now. Where is his gratitude? This could be a big growth for him if he would embrace it. The OW is the easy selfish path but leads to the same place he's at right now,only with her instead.

Lay down your rules and demand what's right. Life can be good and he's missing the best of it chasing this mirage. Don't tolerate any lies, gaslighting, minimizing, omissions,deleted texts and emails. It all stops today.

Change number one: honesty

Change number two: transparency

Change number three: boundaries and loyalty

Change number four: gratitude

Change number five: empathy

This is the minimum to stay and get started repairing. He's in or he's out, no waffling.

Yes User I agree with you. With all that has happened it is difficult to believe anything he says, but I do believe he is not in contact with her. He is definitely still in the fog though. It's been three weeks since DDay2 and we have come a long way, but still far to go. I am very curious as to his response when the therapist mentions the six month time frame where we are fully committed, to see if he will agree. If not, then I see problems. If you can't commit to that for six months what hope is there to commit to it forever?

Pure, I believe he did go cold turkey after the affair but the fog is still hanging around. I understand that feelings just don't disappear no matter who they are for or what type of feelings they are. But as long as he continues to idolize this "perfect woman" we aren't going to get anywhere. I plan to bring that up in our session. At least the therapist will be there to back me up. Then it's a matter of whether or not he puts any credence in what we say. We are working on the changes you listed, which is why I haven't fully committed yet. I can't unless he does those things. It is difficult enough learning to trust him again. I can't put myself in that position if he won't make 100% effort.

Thank you both for your advice. I truly appreciate everyone here who has, unfortunately, experience in this area. This is a very tough journey and of course not one I wanted to ever make (especially not twice). But it is what it is and I am trying to be strong and true to myself.

I can only give you advice based on my own experience ; mind you, I have also read so much about the topic of infidelity, that I should have a certificate on the wall.

I remember always hoping that things would change after the next counselling session, or after a weekend apart or after she had seen a psychiatrist ...

But all these moments turned into nothing, as she wasn’t into it.

You said earlier that if he would move out now , there would be no getting back together .

The advantages of him moving out however are :

You can focus on yourself and your son.

If he really wants to get you back, he has to make a Herculean effort : and , believe me, you are worth this effort.

Like you said , he is still in the fog- that will not change whilst you are together.

Of course these are only reflections of my own situation.

I understand that you want to wait for the counselling session.

And look if he goes into this session full heartedly.

I truly wish he will.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 5:47 PM, March 15th (Friday)]

Thank you AGT. I hope he does too. I think the fog is actually starting to lift but of course there is a long way to go. We have a lot of conversations - I would say daily. He has mentioned that upon reflection now, the OW does not seem as perfect as he had originally thought. Is he being honest? My gut says yes. I am not one to wear rose colored glasses in this situation. I want to see what the first session brings. I think I will have a clearer picture after that (about him and what I think of the therapist - I like her for IC but I know MC is different so we'll see).

The cynic in me has to say a lot about his statement.

It’s not about how less than perfect the OW is; it’s about him regaining your trust.

But it may have been out of context .

I think your approach is mature - give him a chance to express himself whilst a trained Counsellor is present .

If he is as mature as you are , than that is worth doing.

I’m 3 months from d day and getting divorced.

The waffling ain’t reconciliation was too much for me. They either immediately regret their behaviour and beg forgiveness or they are biding their time figuring out the angles.

We separated immediately and it gave me space to see that I was unwilling to ever have sex again with someone who would have sex with someone else while married. It’s that simple.

My kids are teens and dealing with this all very well.life is moving on. Maybe I wasn’t willing to do the work...I absilteky wasn’t going to do it all. Then what? Another betrayal?

It’s a crappy place to be.

BetterTimesAhead,

Where’s the timeline? Did you get the AP name? So you are trying R but you don’t know what you are Reconciling?. How can you gain trust again? You don’t even know all the details.

I told him to sleep in the spare room that night and he said we'll talk about it. I went to bed first and wrapped myself in the blankets like a burrito to make sure he got the hint. He didnt'. He got in bed and pulled the covers away from me

This gave me the shivers. It’s borderline abusive. A man should never force himself to bed to a woman, married or not, even if it’s only for sleeping. I may be old school but I find this totally unacceptable.

Then there’s this:

he is not sure what he wants

he claims I "drove him" to this

If he leaves, he is never coming back

He is waffling

I served him with papers he would probably just say ok and take the easy way out

I know he has feelings for the OW

Gently, why would you ever consider staying with a man that doesn’t see you as his #1 priority? Please read the quotes above, written by you.

Also, when you get advice from someone( lieshurt ) who already gave advice over 20 000 times, I would re-read it and pay attention The other posters are also spot on.

Be calm but firm. Either he’s 100% in, acquiescing to all your demands and doing the work, or he’s out.

P.s. I like your username: BetterTimesAhead

There will be better times ahead!

Smashhrt and shutterhappy are of course correct.

But you do what I did - weighing up the options and see what will work for your individual situation.

You try to safe your marriage and give him chances.

My councillor said one thing which was very useful to me:

“ you got to try until you are sure you have given everything , otherwise you will have regrets “

To me the point of no return suddenly became very clear.

When my wife blew yet another chance and gave me some waffling like “ I love you but I’m not in love with you “

I hope that you have clarity, either to continue trying or to separate.

Mental health needs clarity

Smashd, I hear what you're saying and I wonder the same thing about myself. I don't know that I can get passed that but right now it is too early for me to determine.

ATG, I think his comment about OW was more about coming out of the fog and realizing the grass isn't always greener. Has nothing to do with my trust of course. Just a little indicator of where his mindset is right now. And I think your counselor is right. We have a lot invested in us and our family and I don't want to rush to any decision. Just like I knew that DDay2 was my breaking point to do something about this, I'm sure there will come a time when I am clear on whether I want to R or D and at that time, I will have the clarity I need to be certain of my decision.

ShutterHappy, I do not know if we are trying R. Kind of in limbo at the moment - on both our parts. I'm hoping counseling will give a little more clarity. Everything you quoted was from when this initially started and things have been changing. As far as him leaving and never coming back, that would be my doing. After all this, I could just never make peace with what or who he may have been doing while apart from me. The bed thing happened on DDay2 and he was still very much in denial. Like this was just a bad fight. I don't think he really got it at that point. I'm not making excuses for him, but he is gradually seeing what he's done and the gravity of the situation. He has respected my wishes for him to stay in the other room, but expressed he thought distance was not good. I told him that's what I need at this point. If we determine we will R, then I expect 100% commitment and nothing less.

Thank you all for your continued advice and observations. I find them very helpful.

Have you purchased the book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair? If not, 2 copies, 1 for you 1 for him.

Also, look up Joseph’s Letter in the knowledge library. Give him a copy, but remove all address info from the copy when you print. This will give him an understanding of why you need to know.

I am also in the same it was only 2 time bucket (oral sex).

I don’t believe him. Too many opportunities and too many lies.

Again, I am cynical and jaded and only represent this view at the moment:

BTA shouldn't buy the book.

The husband should buy the book and study it all night and then practice what he learned.

I may be wrong of course.

But organizing the counseling and buying books sends one message :

That BTA really wants to safe the marriage and be with the WW.

That puts him in this situation of power. Whilst really he should be begging for her to keep him.

Just my 2 cents, maybe he has the empathy and reads the book.

BTA shouldn't buy the book.

The husband should buy the book and study it all night and then practice what he learned.

I agree with ATg on this.

It is not up to BTA to spoon feed her WH on what he should be doing.

Don't try and drag your BH along on your way out of infidelity. He should be right along with you on his own two feet.

He needs to make the commitment to the marriage, and that means more than just words, that means ACTIONS.

Stay detached and watch his actions, they will soon tell you where his head is at.

Thank you for the advice Hopeful30. Sorry for your situation. I see you are in R. I hope it all works out for the best for you.

ATG, my therapist advised me to buy a book (After the Affair) and I saw the book mentioned here so I bought both. I need them for me. I will tell them I have them but I will not ask him to read them. It is up to him to pick it up on his own and read it. I am hoping I get some benefit out of reading them. There will be no R until and unless he gets to that point where he is willing to fully commit. So far I am seeing progress and that is good enough right now.

totallydumb, I see your point. That is why I didn't ask him to go to MC - I just told him what my therapist said and left it up to him. I told him I was going for that appointment whether he came or not, and just told him to let me know. I believe he is sorry for what he did but I am unfortunately not certain about what he wants. I'm hoping the MC can shed some light on his actual mindset and point me in the right direction.

Hi BTA,

that makes sense.

Hopefully he shows some interest, in reading.

My wife had " Not just friends " lying on her bedside table for 3 month.

Untouched. I looked every day if a page had been turned.

Hence my reluctance.

But you should read whatever is recommended, it had helped me a lot.

How are you doing BTA?

ATG, the books haven't arrived yet but I told him I ordered them and that I think it would be good if he read them. Guess we'll see.

totallydumb, I am still on the roller coaster. Friday will be four weeks since DDay and I can't believe what my life has become. My old life seems so long ago. Yesterday was a bad day but WH stepped up and asked what I was thinking about and how he could help. He has been going to IC. We start MC tomorrow - we'll see what we both think to determine if we continue with this therapist or another but I am hoping he continues it. It is pricey though - our insurance doesn't cover it. So, still in limbo but moving along. Still not eating much or sleeping well. Hoping that changes. Thank you for all your advice and concern. Makes me feel that I am not alone.

BTA - you are not alone!

I know how hard it is - but you need to eat healthily and you need to sleep.

I’m a walking talking paradox : I’m a doctor and good at giving people advice. And I had terrible insomnia after our DDay, so certainly didn’t practice what I preach.

But - a lot comes down to the thought of internal happiness.

You need to be so happy within yourself that even your husband with his affair can’t touch your inner happiness and stability .

This will appear impossible right now- and trust me- I have stared at the ceiling at 2am, constantly revisiting the source of my pain.

Whilst my stbxw was soundly asleep of course.

You need to work in little steps to focus on your own inner strength and that also puts you , and not your husband in charge of when you can and can’t sleep.

Love yourself first !

Thanks ATG. I am trying. I always seem to have a physiological response to extreme stress. I usually do fall asleep but once I wake up - for any reason at any time - my mind starts racing and I can't fall asleep again. Eating? Not hungry and a rock in the pit of my stomach. Trying protein shakes and eating when I'm having a better day. I do manage to get to my yoga classes and walk the dog when it's warm enough. I know I have to do it for me and no matter what happens I will be fine. It's just really tough. Thanks for the advice doc.