SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks Bigger. As I said, I can only achieve so much with one conversation.

Regarding your questions:

- divorce terms: I have a lawyer friend who I am going to speak to about this. Internet based research has been helpful but will solidify with a legal brain. The court interpreation of her position of not being able to work leaves things open though. If she sticks to what she said today, I'd be ok however obviously lawyers on her side can change things

- re the other guy, I'm going to check later on whether she's upheld her agreement to stop that when I go back to her on her financial questions.

- "SHE thinks she has the power to decide if the marriage is over or not" - well, she kind of does in part. We both do. Though I did say to her that whilst my preferred outcome is that we work things through, if after that she doesnt love me and want to be together than I'll accept that and we go our separate ways

I know people will say this is wrong, but she's coming across as knowing that she's done a really daft thing at the moment and embarrassed. Not necessarily the wounded party, but certainly wounded emotionally. I'm seeing progress even in a few hours with seeing a counseller tomorrow and the walk etc - helps suggest that she wants to fix things. I'm going to speak to her mum later - even though she's her mum, she's a staunch ally and will back me 100% on this

[This message edited by AB1978 at 3:16 PM, Monday, September 15th]

We both do.

That’s the truth...
I might come over sounding like some drill sergeant with some fresh recruits... I prefer to see myself like a personal trainer trying to get one more pull-up from you. At the end of the day you are in the hot-seat and have to take your decisions based on what’s best for you.

I think you are correct on your analysis on her behavior. However... In my first weeks as a cop the veteran who had me under his wings told me to notice that no matter how dumb the action the person would always justify: Everyone speeds here and I was only following the flow of traffic, she wanted it rough, he was asking for a punch, they are insured so there was no harm in stealing their TV... It was a very rare person that simply acknowledged their blame and accountability. Generally we only saw that sort of person once, while the other tended to become repeat offenders.

It’s OK to take it slower than I suggest. Just be aware of where you are, and have an expectation to be further along tomorrow.

Conselling: I asked a few times and she became increasingly open to it but still not saying yes definitively. I think she will eventually go and am trying to arrange 3 - one for me, one for her and a couples one

Hold off on marriage counseling. It’s useless until she’s verifiably ended her affair and committed to the marriage, unless it’s objective is an amicable divorce and custody sharing.

It’s of limited value until she has gotten to the bottom of why she gave herself permission to have an affair and is demonstrably remorseful. It can even be detrimental if you draw the wrong kind of counselor. All therapists should be vetted for their views on infidelity.

Hi asc1226

Thanks for the reply.

"Hold off on marriage counseling. It’s useless until she’s verifiably ended her affair and committed to the marriage, unless it’s objective is an amicable divorce and custody sharing.

It’s of limited value until she has gotten to the bottom of why she gave herself permission to have an affair and is demonstrably remorseful. It can even be detrimental if you draw the wrong kind of counselor. All therapists should be vetted for their views on infidelity."

Its 2nd order priority I agree. My aim is for her to see someone tomorrow and I've just spoken to someone I can see on Friday I think.

The odd thing about her thought process is that we've spent about £5k in the last two weeks revamping our patio garden (which she did most of the thinkng for), we've been speaking about booking a holiday for next year and even then after our conversation today, she's still shopping for a kettle. Then at the same time, she has the 'moving out' idea in her head (even before you get on to the other man). So its very confused and mixed from her. I genuinely dont think she knows why she had the affair and her admission that it could be part of a cry for help shows this.

I'm going to give her the answers to her financial questions later re. viability of moving out so that she knows its possible. That way the idea of running to the other man loses some of its appeal and she can judge the merits of what she has vs moving into a small apartment.

I would still like us to work through this, even if it takes several months to rebuild trust etc but I've moved on in the last few days to accepting that may not happen. All her family and friends would tell her she's nuts to move out so I'm hoping the counsellor will help her think more clearly.

[This message edited by AB1978 at 6:27 PM, Monday, September 15th]

I seriously warn you AGAINST placing any stones or hurdles in her path if she really wants to move out.
A key to reconciling is the acceptance that you both have options. If she decides to stay then it’s totally her decision and it’s not based on OM not being available, not being around the kids, not affording to rent or even having to forfeit the summer holiday to Spain. The ONLY reason she should have left for staying is that deep inside she wants the marriage.
You don’t want her to tell you she’s there because she had no other options. You want her to be there because she had options, but decided on her own free will to be in the marriage.

Hi Bigger

Thanks for the message.

"I seriously warn you AGAINST placing any stones or hurdles in her path if she really wants to move out."

I'm not sure where you picked that up from however my intention is to do the opposite. I'll tell her how it can be afforded so that she has the option. I think it might relieve some of the tension in her.

[This message edited by AB1978 at 6:27 PM, Monday, September 15th]

This sounds like a classic exit affair, a situation where one partner is using infidelity as a way to leave the relationship without having to face a direct confrontation. The emotional and mental betrayal you're experiencing is a sign that she's already checked out.

Whether her depression is a factor or not, you need to firmly put yourself first. Right now, you've discovered her cheating, yet you're acting like you're the one who needs to help her. This is a complete reversal of how this should work. She's the one who betrayed you; you don't deserve this kind of treatment. The only way this relationship has a chance to survive without you ending up as a resentful, empty shell is if she is the one fighting to save it. She should be on her hands and knees, begging for forgiveness and doing whatever it takes to earn back your trust.

It's time for you to face the reality of your situation. You need to start contemplating a life without her. The sooner you do, the happier you will be in the long run.

Hi DrSoolers

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

"This sounds like a classic exit affair, a situation where one partner is using infidelity as a way to leave the relationship without having to face a direct confrontation. The emotional and mental betrayal you're experiencing is a sign that she's already checked out."

You could be right but equally not. If I google symptoms of an exit affair:

Lack of remorse: The affair partner shows a complete lack of remorse or guilt about the affair, even if you discover it.

AB: There's been some, so not 'complete' lack of remorse. COuld there be more - yes. Is she feeling guilty? Yes, from what she has said about causing hurt to me

Emotional distance: There's a noticeable withdrawal of affection and emotional connection from your partner.

AB: This is definitely there but is also what she always has when depressed. I dont know how you distinguish

Withdrawal and checking out:Your partner may seem "checked out" of the marriage, no longer engaging in efforts to maintain the relationship.

AB: as above

Unwillingness to work on the relationship:They might refuse to discuss relationship issues or attend couples therapy.

AB: she's just agreed to do therapy tomorrow and has a session booked. We said that we'd do individual ones and then couples after

Being caught or even desiring to be caught:They stop hiding the affair and may even make it easier for you to discover it, often because they want the relationship to end.

AB: I dont know how you judge whether she set things up deliberately for me to see it?

Making unfair comparisons: They start comparing you unfavorably to the affair partner, either directly or indirectly.

AB: Not seen yet

Rewriting history: They might revise past relationship events to paint a picture of a perpetually unhappy marriage, justifying their actions.

AB: Not seen yet

Blaming you: They may place blame on you for the affair and the relationship's demise.

AB: Not seen yet

You may be right, but I'm not sure its easy to say so.

[This message edited by AB1978 at 6:26 PM, Monday, September 15th]

The MC at this point is not a good idea. The MC's goal is to SAVE THE RELATIONSHIP, PUT THE AFFAIR BEHIND YOU, BUILD A BRAND NEW SHINY RELATIONSHIP!

Now is the time for IC. Figure out what YOU want, what YOU need. I too think you gave her more power than she should have.

As to the spousal allowance, my answer to that would have been no. We are not wasting our money on you setting up a new house especially if I'm going to maintain this house and support our children. You will need to figure out a way to support yourself in your new house

And what kind of mom is willing to move away from her children? To me this says her priorities are herself and possibly him

Perhaps it's not an exit affair, I can only work off the limited information that's been given to me. That was merely the impression I got upon reading the thread. Irrespective I'm still not understanding your approach here and I would argue strongly that it's not the right one.

The idea of running around after her, as if you're waiting for her to "wake up," seems like a dead end. It feels like you've moved into 'fixer' mode but in doing so you'd be burying the betrayal and pretending it didn't phase you, and that's not a healthy or sustainable solution. Though many act as you do initially upon discovery.

Here's the tough truth: She should be the one taking action. Why are you booking counselling? Shouldn't she be frantically trying to do this. Shouldn't she know she's the one who messed up. She should be arranging counseling. She should be asking what she can do to make things right. You've already endured the pain of her actions; you shouldn't have to carry the burden of fixing it, too.

Many people, when faced with infidelity, have dropped their dignity and put in all the effort to salvage a relationship, only to regret it later. It's a natural reaction to want to save what you've built, but it can come at a huge cost to your self-worth.

It's time to show your strength. You need to clearly and calmly outline that what she did is unacceptable. She needs to be the one to put in the work to fix this. If she's not willing to, then you need to be prepared to walk away. It's a hard line to draw, but it’s a necessary one to protect yourself and your future. This isn't about punishment; it's about holding her accountable for her actions and demanding the respect you deserve.

However this all pans out, I really wouldn't want you looking at your actions in the face of this with disgust upon review.

I also strongly agree with WB1340. She needs a dose of reality, she needs consequences to her actions.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 5:23 PM, Monday, September 15th]

Hi WB1340

Thanks for that reply.

"I too think you gave her more power than she should have."

I can understand that view. I've moved on in the last 72 hours from the initial shock and hurt. She's still in the digestion period of being caught and trying to understand where it goes from here. I don't think she'd given any thought about where things would head if caught so is in digestion mode.

"As to the spousal allowance, my answer to that would have been no. We are not wasting our money on you setting up a new house especially if I'm going to maintain this house and support our children. You will need to figure out a way to support yourself in your new house"

Courts in the UK don't look at it that way. They will look at 16 yr marriage, mum who brought up kids and depression too severe to work. Generally, courts here give a whole life spousal allowance for something like that. I'm going to get a far better financial settlement with a negotiated position with my wife compared to a court imposed one.

"And what kind of mom is willing to move away from her children? To me this says her priorities are herself and possibly him"

She knows she can't look after them on her own. She wants the best for them and knows that I can look after them

[This message edited by AB1978 at 6:26 PM, Monday, September 15th]

Hi DrSoolers

Thanks for the follow-up.

"Why are you booking counselling? Shouldn't she be frantically trying to do this."

She's had counselling before and is very cynical about it. My intention was therefore to make it hard for her to reject it or hard for her to have a valid reason not to go. Without counselling, I dont see that we progress given she won't speak to her family about this (as they'll tell her what she doesnt want to hear) and won't speak to her relatively narrow group of friends, because they'll tell her she's being an idiot.

"It's time to show your strength. You need to clearly and calmly outline that what she did is unacceptable."

I agree and did that this morning. Would you keep raising it? It doesnt seem productive to progress things.

"you need to be prepared to walk away."

I am, though put differently, provide the option for her to walk away. I don't want to be separated from my kids.

[This message edited by AB1978 at 6:26 PM, Monday, September 15th]

You need to remove your personal name from your last message. We all try to remain anonomyous for obvious reasons.

I would still like us to work through this, even if it takes several months to rebuild trust etc but I've moved on in the last few days to accepting that may not happen.

How about if it takes years to rebuild trust, which is a more realistic timeline? The damage inflicted by infidelity is no joke. I'm 5 months out from d day, my WW is as close to a model candidate for R as I could have hoped for, and I still can't say trust has been rebuilt. I don't think the 100% blind trust I once had will ever be rebuilt. I don't know of I'll ever be able to blindly trust anyone like that ever again. As someone wiser than me once said here, "because 100% blind trust has never worked out well for anyone on this forum..."

I've moved on in the last 72 hours from the initial shock and hurt.

That's pretty amazing. I, and most others, were still reeling from the initial shock and hurt for months. 2 months out and I still couldn't believe it even happened. Hell, I'm 5 months out now, and I'm still sometimes in disbelief. The general rule of thumb for recovery from something like this is 2 to 5 years. I know for me, my whole world was shattered in an instant. Everything I thought I knew and believed was flipped on its head. Don't underestimate the impact an affair can have on you. It's good you're getting into counseling.

I'm going to echo some of the others here in that I think she should be the proactive one here, and it shouldn't be you nudging her. If she doesn't take the initiative and want to do the work on her own, then it doesn't appear she's as on board with salvaging this as you are.

[This message edited by Pogre at 6:37 PM, Monday, September 15th]

Hi Pogre

"How about if it takes years to rebuild trust, which is a more realistic timeline?"

Its difficult to say. I've never been in this position I'm afraid. I guess we all have different propensities to trust and some will be quicker and some slower. I have no idea.

"Don't underestimate the impact an affair can have on you. It's good you're getting into counseling."

Thank you. It felt right given that how easily its brought me to tears over the last 3 days. I was dreading today and the moment when I walked into the room which my wife was in and said we needed to speak. I think I have a sense of relief now that that conversation is in the past, things are out in the open and we progress. My wife's moving out thought also helps in a weird way given that it if outcomes are (i) things work out and we re-built or (ii) she moves out and I bring up the kids, then it helps settle the mind in that the outcomes are more known.

I'm going to echo some of the others here in that I think she should be the proactive one here, and it shouldn't be you nudging her.

Yep, five minutes on google would have her neck deep in recovery resources. Has she ordered any books? Joined any forums? Read any articles?

Years, not months. From what I've gathered it takes two plus years before somebody can say they trust their spouse again and that's if the WS takes all of the right steps with no regression

I can understand how she feels she could not take care of the kids on her own in a separate house so it's great that you are able to

Trust is rebuilt over time and with consistency.

If you say "I’m going to Home Depot" you don’t find out the person is on the other side of town without informing the betrayed. It’s not meant to be controlling but if the cheater really gets it, they understand that this is what is needed.

It may seem like overkill but it’s needed for however long it’s needed.

I remember once we were doing a home repair and three places did not have the material needed. My H (of his own free will) called me every time he went to a new place to try to find the material. It’s funny now - but much appreciated then.

I suggest you go through all of your messages on this forum and remove your given name, especially on pages one and two.

IMHO it’s really too early to start talking trust and recovery.
Both are non-issues if she chooses the affair over the marriage, and right now this fresh from discovery trust should be at rock bottom anyways. With time and immense work it can be rebuilt, but probably in a more reliable form than the old blind-trust.
For now IMHO your priorities should be:
Make certain the OMW got the message or at the very least that the OM knows you know. Have you asked your wife if she has told him you know? Has she told him the affair is over?
Get your wife to decide her choice: Does she want to try to reconcile, or does she want to have her options open?

I can share that it seems that most people take around 2 years to recover from major trauma. This is the general timeframe people need to recover from the loss of a partner, child, divorce... Doesn’t mean you are recovered after 2 years, but more that after that time you see a future.