SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry, just don't like snarky comments, especially if coming from someone who I consider to be a leader but Odonna does have a great point though.

It is imperative that your WW gives back. Doesn't have to be here on SI. She can go back to teaching Spin classes. And maybe pick up other classes as well. She could probably do 16 classes weekly if she opens up her options; classes using weights, stretch, body work aqua, yoga, step, Zumba, kick boxing, boot camp...the list goes on.

Can your WW quit her regular job and focus on her passion and make money doing it? And work on your marriage with you? Are you open to giving up some of your hobbies to spend more time with your wife?

You talked about how your WW loved Spin classes and how she had a following and how much she loved it. I don't understand why she stopped being an instructor.

I loved it but it made my WH jealous and insecure...attracted lots of attention. I've been faithful to my WH for 32 years since I met him October 10, 1997. I hope the math is correct. Lol

Everywhere I went, I started something new in the fitness field and at one point, it exploded into lots of people coming to my classes. The most I had at one time was 130 students.

I am older and wiser now. I hate to admit that I have lots of experience in dysfunction and unfaithful behaviors and with infidelity. Who wants to admit to that? But it's the truth. It's what I experienced. But it doesn't define who I am. I am grate and grateful dispite my life experiences. I am an awesome person and so are you, BR. And so is your wife.

LemonCurd

I met with the examiner and my questions were direct and rather simple. We did define SEX as recommended here, including all the basics.

Examiner was professional not intimidating, law enforcement background.

There were no grey areas that needed a lot of explaining. No maybes.

And as a side note, the examiner was a SHE , not a HE. I wanted it that way when given the choice.

These details are not as important as GETTING IT DONE. i agree with those posting another thread here. polygraphs are NOT perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than spending years taking your guts out and if you play the odds of a WS beating a poly versus continuing to lie and gaslight, its a no brainer.

Her parents were relieved, and as I said I made it clear to them that this stays with them or our relationship will be forever tarnished. After the initial questioning, they both have been very good about not trying to interfere. My MIL has beaten her daughter up pretty good from what I heard on the VAR.

NUMB

What is she doing to learn to value her own self validation versus those external to her

Thats a good question. The process has just started.

ODONNA

I didn't find anything snarky in your post. My wife actually does give to others. I mentioned a few times she volunteers to sit with dying people and comfort them at a hospice most Sunday nights. She also spend some time one Saturday a month at a no kill animal shelter helping to find homes for abandoned dogs.

HURT MY HEART

She loved teaching spinning but cannot do it with her job because her day depends on appointments and she does not punch a clock and get home at regular times so she can't commit to teaching a class at a certain time in the evening. She has been going as a participant since she stopped running by herself when she can.

Quitting her job, which is pretty well paying with great benefits, is not going to happen to teach spinning right now.

I have one girl who graduated last May in MBA school right now, and two more than want some career in medicine or pharmacy, and another one who wants an MBA. My oldest refused to let us pay for her graduate school and took a loan. And the other right now are paid for by their athletic scholarships, but that will end when they graduate.

And of course I have four weddings probably in my future.

Your idea is great, but probably not workable right now.

There is no rest for the weary. i travel next week and she spends a night out o town again the week after that. She has again told me that if the no travel territory opens up she will apply for it even though it would mean getting to know new customers all over again.

We are going to spend the rest of this week trying to not be fixated on this for a few days and this week end have set aside some time to try to plan some TOGETHER stuff to do that has been lacking.

BR, just so that you yourself are clear on this; I posted with complete sincerity in thanking you and in noticing how much you wanted to avoid continuing debate on your interpretation of events and decisions going forward. If you saw any snark in that then I apologize for not being clear. I did not and will not offer opinions or advice on those issues any longer in light of your request, but I hope my recommendation on a different issue (how WW can find validation in her life now) was not amiss.

Get some sleep. Every morning, look up at the sky, even in bad weather, and ground yourself in the glory of this Universe and the privilege of having another day in it.

I just noticed we cross-posted... all good!

One week since poly . We are trying to establish some normalcy . She has surprised me a couple of times coming up with activities we can do again together and she initiated a discussion of “ boundaries “‘and expectations .

Since our work schedules don’t exactly match we had pretty

much sort of disconnected on the partner stuff other than sex .

Starting out by making effort to eat dinner together every night which had not been happening when she was running out after work to train

I told her common sense should enable her to keep the same boundaries she had before forgetting them. I cannot exist trying to micromanage her every move or interaction . That is no way to live

Told her I don’t need 20 texts and selfies a day proving where she is every hour. But I do want to know if she’s having to go to lunch with men involved . And NO Way alone

I have not told her it might not be the last poly . And no way am I telling her about SI

BeyondRage,

I don’t really post in JFO much so I hope it’s okay to chime in at this late stage. I don’t have much to add as it seems you pretty much have a strong handle on your situation and a path to move forward. Funny thing to say about being thrust into a shitstorm that someone else threw you into, right? But there it is. The choice is to either get blown away or navigate through it from a position of strength and personal fortitude.

You seem like a straight up guy. I’m sorry your WW did this to you. I’m sure you’ve seen by now that there are no heroines or heroes in this mess. Just flawed and broken human beings who make crappy decisions that have severe consequences and tremendous impacts on so many people and aspects of their lives. I don’t care how quickly your WW gets it or is remorseful and whatever else she does. Understand that she will do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, act selfishly, be in self-preservation mode, not empathize, be withdrawn, trigger you, withhold information and so on. Not because she’s evil incarnate (although what she did was evil), but because she’s a human being and humans beings do human things. Something tells me you’ll know the difference between the two as you move forward wherever that takes you. But hopefully, she’ll do the right things too. Heal, grow, be there for you, work on herself, minimize triggers, be proactive, make significant personal changes, empathize, sympathize, learn, become authentic, be completely honest and transparent, etc. And maybe she’ll do these things more often and consistently and it’ll dwarf the times when she acts human. And then you’ll have information to assess and reassess as you move forward to determine where you stand and what you want in life and in your marriage.

Be good and kind to yourself. Take care of your needs. You’re early days still and this will take a long time to heal from. I’m 4 years out and still have a ways to go. But I’m light years ahead of where I was at your stage.

I hope this didn’t come across as preachy or sanctimonious. Just some rambling thoughts from someone who’s been through it like everyone else here. Wishing you best of luck and sending strength.

A week already, this year is flying by.

Sounds like she is putting in good effort, hope you (echoing walloped) take care of yourselves. Seems like a good update and I hope she absorbs what you told her BR

Well, as some have suggested, the first trigger moment has come. Nothing she actually did but she presented me with a work communication indicating in a few weeks she will have to attend a two night away work conference with the attendees indicated. And guess who will be there?? Yup, our little "hotwife" ex girlfriend.

Remember, the girlfriend does not work for the company but work for a large consulting firm under contract. There is absolutely nothing she can do you avoid this but it still pisses me off.

My wife has written an e mail that she showed me but has not sent yet reminding this woman that there is going to be nothing discussed other than business if they interact.

So the question is.

(1) do i let her send the e mail or just tell her what I expect? or ask her how she is going to interact if they find themselves in same proximity. No way I can monitor this.

(2) do i put the VAR in the car and tell her just to call her, hoping she will do it from car.

(3) do i tell her to call her from home with me there.

(4) do I just wait and watch

I am NOT having her quit her job over this as this is something that might happen twice a year.

Until this the week was pretty good. She has been very attentive and has reached out a number of times asking if i want to talk. She has started cooking dinner again and we have had some very nice evenings.

I have contacted a few therapists, but still not sure I want to travel that route.

Posted by BeyondRage:

So the question is.

(1) do i let her send the e mail or just tell her what I expect? or ask her how she is going to interact if they find themselves in same proximity. No way I can monitor this.

(2) do i put the VAR in the car and tell her just to call her, hoping she will do it from car.

(3) do i tell her to call her from home with me there.

(4) do I just wait and watch

I would put the VAR back in the car.

I would not have her send the email to her 'hotwife friend'.

The reason not to is if she is inclined to, she can just say to hotwife when she sees her: "I just had to write that because I got busted by BeyondRage, and it makes him feel better" and then she can just talk hotwife about whatever she wants or do whatever the fuck she wants.

A phone call is just a phone call. Calling you doesn't really ensure anything either.

***

I am not advising you against reconciliation, but this is the problem with reconciling with cheaters/liars.

At some point you have to just trust them, and the thing they have proven beyond a shadow of doubt, is that they cannot be trusted, and they don't give a shit about how their cheating is hurting you as long as you don't know about it.

And for pretty much all of us on the betrayed side, this creates an awful type of stress.

Since you have (I think) chosen the path of attempted reconciliation, I think what you have to do is give her rope, keep spying on her (which is tiring and stressful), and see what she does.

Even if your wife is going to cheat again, I don't think she will cheat this time.

But maybe a PI would help you find out if this is really going to weigh on your mind

Good luck.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:43 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]

First of all, BeyondRAge, you are really just out of the starting blocks. I was barely functioning at this time after DDay. You're doing very, very well. There will be more, many more, triggers.

Right now I don't think I'd do anything to drastic. The VAR back in the car would be a good idea.

The girlfriend was on the attendee list. Your WW told you right away. As suggested above, I wouldn't have your WW send any e-mail to the girlfriend. There's no need to have them open up any conversations. Possibly ask your WW to avoid any contact if possible but limit it if not. Your WW knows there could/will be another poly in her future.

If they are going to get together they're going to get together. Is this the girlfriend that is in an open relationship but told your WW that she is getting in over her head and she should be talking to you?

My WW talked to me every night when she travelled as I did with her when I travelled. My thing was that when I was behind my closed and locked hotel room and safe from the world I let her know. Her thing was to talk to me then phone her AP on the hotel system for him to come to her room after our ILYs. She didn't go to his room because I might call her room number and she didn't use her cell phone to call him so there would be no record. If they want to get together they will.

Like faithfulman I don't think she'll do anything this time. Nonetheless, it's going to be a tough couple of days for you. Her actions over her words. Watch and observe. Trust your gut.

Concur with steadychevy ^^^^

Are you tech savvy and is your wife tech savvy?

Do you have "find my friends" for the iPhone or any other kind of GPS tracking enabled on your wife's phone?

Of course, don't tell her about it.

Knowing her location is a great way to have some kind of idea of what she is doing and if she is lying about things.

Faithfulman

I have that on her phone but that doesn’t matter . I know exactly where she will be , I know the itinerary , when it starts and when it ends

I really do not think she will cheat even if she wanted to at

a work function . And if I was not pretty convinced that she does not want to cheat i would be on an entirely different path

Steady

I might do the VAR but I knew at some point they would be at same place. It will happen again at some point.. I’m going to let this simmer for a few days

BR I would not bother with the VAR you have already heard your wife (not) discussing this stuff and I would also not bother with the email.She passed the poly you know she has been completely honest with you so far so no need to treat her with suspicion.

She hasnt communicated with or exchanged information about the two dickheads with hotwife over the phone or email, the curveball here is alchohol at this conference and hotwife probably banging some poor victim in attendance or even worse gossiping.

Tell wife if she feels she needs to send the email then she is doing something wrong because hotwife should have got the message that their friendship is overand it is isnt it?

Simply request of her not to socialize with the hotwife even within a larger group outside of or inside workhours at this gathering, tell her bluntly she is NOT to discuss any of this situation with hotwife even if hotwife tries to apologize. There is nothing left to be said.

No sitting with hotwife for food, no sitting at the same table or joining in with whatever group will form at the conference if hotwife is part of said group. She can make her excuses and occupy herself elsewhere .... if hotwife tries to engage she can tell hotwife to her face she is not interested in anything she has to say, flick her hair and turn her back.

Explain this to your wife, hotwife is an enemy of your marriage and is to be treated as such NO EXCEPTIONS. Like you said you knew they would meet up eventually but this is not the situation you envisaged, have to say this is a crappy situation so soon after.

You have plenty of time to cobble together some boundaries and it is likely this woman will mention the conference to your wife before they attend. Make it clear to your wife when that happens you want to hear about it and that should be that.

This is the first real test of your wife, personally I think she will be a scared mouse at this conference and lock herself in her room to avoid this woman at all costs.

You already told her more polys could be coming and no your wife isnt going to cheat there obviously.

sorry BR what a head f^^^

Can you take time off of work and go with her?

I am not saying to keep an eye on her, but to perhaps have a conversation with said friend.

Maybe ask to talk to the friend without your wife around.

She might give you some piece of mind or let you in on an angle you didn't know.

You can't live in fear of this woman forever. Remember this woman wanted your wife to talk to you before continuing. She might be someone who was on your side.

Just be careful, she might recommend just sleeping with her to even things out. People who see sex as a transaction, tend to have little value in fidelity.

Going with your WW this early on might put you at ease. What else are you going to spend your PTO on? A trip/vacation. So you suffer now to feel better later. Just saying you might want to just go. Maybe make this an impromptu vacation.

As you have already realized,

1. Your WW was going to have to meet this woman in her work circles sooner or later.

2. Total avoidance in this setting is also probably not realistic, but how your wife handles it, and/or negates and conducts herself through this is an issue.

3. It was not so much the person that is the issue, it was the lifestyle she lived. The old quote 'birds of a feather,flock together'. Hopefully she now realizes this.

4. Lastly, as you have shown, you don't want to be her jailer, although some monitoring after the event may be necessary for your peace of mind. The var would be ideal.

I don't know what you'd get with the VAR, BeyondRage. Probably nothing. But your WW may feel free to talk while in a vehicle to someone like the girlfriend. Like I said, there will probably be nothing. However, you do have a VAR and the peace of mind might make it worthwhile to put it into the vehicle again.

Like I said above, you're barely out of the starting blocks. There has hardly been enough time for your WW to have earned trust back. Far too soon. It takes a long time for trust to return. Yes, she passed the polygraph on the questions asked. Important questions to you.

I expect your WW probably feels she will never commit adultery again and mean it. I hope she never does especially if you're able to R as you hope to. Too many times the WS does everything right for a little while but starts slipping because it gets too hard or the heat is off or some other reason. Only time and observation will indicate if it's permanent and the trust is earned (maybe never to the level it was before). That is why this

She passed the poly you know she has been completely honest with you so far so no need to treat her with suspicion.

is bad advice. It's far too soon. You need to stay vigilant. You need to have suspicions. Your WW needs to understand that this can go on for quite some time. She needs to earn the trust.

I truly hope your WW measures for you up if R is your intent. It may be that you find you can't continue even if she does. It is your decision about what is best for you. I hope you are on a faster track than many of us to find that out. You seem to be.

I think you're a guy with common sense and can see the benefits of having a VAR in place at least for some time, maybe at least couple of months longer and when she might think you have your guard down, you don't have much to lose anyway, if she finds the VAR, oh well, it's a consequence of her betrayal (same with the poly), she was betraying you for months, so if she's smart and finds it, and is truly remorseful, she would tell you so and that she understands and doesn't blame you for it. Having her friend in the car (or anybody else)who knew what was going on could be both revealing and reassuring, so why not have the VAR in place to verify it ?. Being the M police is no fun and not sustainable in the long run, but I highly recommend it, this soon after D day, just in case.

Her girlfriend is her mentor. She taught her how to cheat and what to do if she was caught.

Your wife has done everything in days that take months, years or even a lifetime to do.

The problem is you do not know if it is real or just the checklist she was told to do.

The girlfriend will expect an email.

This is why most say the job must go because it is x central to the affair. It will prevent true healing and reconciliation.

You need to stay vigilant

100% agree steady as I said elsewhere the antennae will be and should be up for some time, BR will be hypersensitive to possible trust breaches for ages , but a concensus was sort of reached that the VAR had run its course.

I am in noway suggesting BR blindly trusts his wife but I see no reason for BR to move backwards either since some normalcy is returning, it is not what he wants.

Wife came to BR and gave him the itinerary and list of attendees, wife also wrote up the email and let BR give it the once over, since he wanted her to keep on working what more could she do?

Best to give her some rope and she can either hang herself or she can be true to her word. Open and transparent and following the agreed boundaries ... she has done this so far and more. I think this conference will pass without major incident, possibly a brief conversation with hotwife if she pushes which I believe BR will be informed about immediately.

BR is unconcerned she will cheat at this place and is unconcerned she is going to get hammered or reach out to the running group. Wife seems to want to communicate to her ex-friend some very stiff boundaries, BRs choice ultimately and I am sure they will discuss this whole sitch repeatedly over the coming month.

I still cannot see anything in this recent development that equates to a reason to up surveillance or diminishes the recently restored portion of trust ???? What more can his wife do she has done everything asked and more as confirmed by months of VAR and a thorough poly by an excellent woman interviewer?

Just my opinion. BR is fine and normal to be agitated by this, I am sure wife is upset too ... just a bump in a long road to time will tellsville