SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Collaborative Divorce, between two mature, unselfish adults can be a great thing and I've known people who've successfully done this. None of them were cheaters though.

Collaborative Divorce to a WS typically means that you do everything they want, give them everything they want and basically kiss their ass throughout the whole process. Right now, I believe that's exactly what you will do. Let's not forget the cheaters who claimed they were working collaboratively, but were secretly plotting with their attorney and did a surprise attack on their bs.

You have an attorney so listen to them and be prepared for the worst.

My wife wants/wanted a mediated divorce if we do it, but I insisted on collaborative.

Amazingly she conceded.

I do not trust my wife, and mediated demands way too much trust (as well as legal knowledge from the parties). The mediator advocates for neither. I want the protection, advocacy and advice of an attorney through the process.

So I feel comfortable with collaborative, and again, if it falls apart then we will just litigate. I hope we can avoid that at all cost.

1) Set the terms of your collaborative divorce now and just don't file the petition or agreement with the state. even if she can fight it later, it would be good to have it, just for reference and to prove that she at one time did agree (no he said, she said.)

2) Decide that you are going to be a man who demands to be treated right...not for you..but because your kids need to know that some people are secure and strong and won't take abuse. they need to know that you won't take abuse, because they want to know that you can and will be there to protect them from it too. don't let them think they need to protect you!

show your kids what a man looks really looks like and what he will sacrifice to protect them...even if it's from their own mother.

3) I'd bet dollars to donuts that even though you will miss her terribly and be tempted a lot, your first feelings will be of relief. most of us codependents will feel it right away. the absence of that sucking funnel of negative, needy energy will make you feel noticeably lighter.

suddenly the house will belong to the energy of you and your kids. when you are home you will be comforted that you don't have to see or talk to your trigger. you won't dread coming home. you won't have to wonder if the words you hear are lies. you won't have to worry about or try to comfort someone whose pain is totally self-inflicted, selfish and absolutely disrespectful to the pain she's caused you and your family. you won't have to wonder if she just snuck off to contact OM.

you won't have to clean up her messes or listen to her excuses or to her pine for her OM. you will enjoy your kids more. you will have time FOR YOU. you will breathe more easily.

the rollercoaster will still be there, and you will have doubts for sure...but hold on to the glimpses of relief and peace. they are what is real. chaos is only a mask, made from your sham of a marriage, covering all the wonderful peace and love abbondad was meant to share with this world.

happy endings?

i found myself hanging over a cliff, terrified of letting go...deciding which torment was worse, staying married or D? it was like the psychological equivalent of someone deciding to jump from a tall building to escape a fire. which way did i want to go, how would i decide to perish...and was there any chance could i survive either of them?

turns out, when i closed my eyes and let go, the ground was right there. i guess the branch i was hanging from stretched and drooped over that cliff until, without realizing it, i was just a few feet from a decent landing. if that branch was detachment or just drooping from the weight of our dysfunction i don't know, but it wasn't anything like the fall into the abyss i was anticipating.

i'm 3.5 years past DDay, and my life is freakin' magically delicious. my daughter is a happier kid than she could have ever been with both us. i know i made the right choice because my anger still pops out now and then if he pushes me regarding DD. i know i made the right choice because even though he is improved, his baseline of selfishness, incompetence and oblivion would have made me crazier and crazier. i can see now many of the dynamics that, though not directly related to the A, were unhealthy.

i was freaking out about whether i could handle our house, the kid, the dog, the cats, the laundry, the loneliness, starting over, the lack of trust in everyone...basically my whole life. i'd always considered him to be helpful, even though so many messes were his projects unfinished. my BFF told me that knowing me and knowing him, i'd be fine...because she could see if i couldn't, just how exhausting and impossible life was because of his chaos.

she was right. taking care of just me, my kid, my pets and my life was SO much easier and more peaceful. it was hard...but it was definitely better. the more distance i got, the less head space i gave him.

i made a new life for DD and i. i started chasing my real dreams. before XH i'd had a rich life alone, moving on my own to new cities, seizing opportunities, loving my solitude and my social life. now, post M, A and childbearing, i'd found courage and strength i had no idea was there.

a few months after my D was final, i wasn't dating and closed my heart to it altogether. i was focused on me, working with a mentor, starting a business in addition to my fulltime job. i started writing and reading again. then sooner than i even wanted, i accidentally got close to someone who had also been a BS. i'd known him as acquaintance for several years but had little interaction. we'd never exchanged so much as an email or more than a hallway joke with others at work. when we started joking about never dating seriously again, we got some chemistry going. still, neither one of us wanted anything but fun. i never wanted to even try to trust another guy, especially with DD around. when the time came for me to try a little, i was wary, but it all just flowed so naturally.

we were married in december.

i don't recommend that time table for people. it's not a solution nor should it be a focus. it's almost always a mistake. i don't even pretend that i'm any different than other people who do it as a mistake. i'm just going with what is beautiful for my daughter and i. i decided i felt strong enough to choose the risk.

i still have sorrow, but i wouldn't go back to that life for a million bucks.

you'll be ok. you'll be better than you think.

(((abbondad)))

[This message edited by stretch13 at 11:10 AM, May 1st (Wednesday)]

From my understanding of collaborative divorce, there is one HUGE pitfall. If the *collaboration* breaks down, you basically have to start all over.....with a NEW lawyer.

The regular, mediated D process will only be as adversarial as the two of you make it. Sultan is a humongous pain in my ass, but we were able to sit down with a mediator and hammer out the custody agreement.

The only way that a judge will decide ANYTHING for you is if the two of you can't come to an agreement on your own.

We have just started the financial mediation process and Sultan is not so *agreeable* on this front.....so THAT is most likely to have to go in front of a judge--if he ever turns over all of his financial info, that is...

If you file, that doesn't stop you from doing a collaborative divorce. You have to file during a collaborative divorce anyway. If you file pro se, you're not retaining an attorney. I don't see the problem with filing now. You can drop it and refile later. You can use the existing filing as a basis for the collaborative divorce. You can even get remarried later if you want. You're exposing yourself to a LOT of risk because you don't want to upset her.

EDIT: Accidentally a word.

[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 12:07 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]

lieshurt brings a pretty potent argument to the game. I'm specifically referring to the texts between WW and her sister. Believe me, she's planning something.

On a positive note though, the longer she is out of the marital home and you are actively working on detaching, the better for you. If that begins to become an issue, remember the promise she made your son. IDK how she was able to tell him of the separation and retain any semblance of humanity in your eyes. Granted, you are only her H, but he is her flesh and blood.

Also, from the legal side the longer she is gone, the better chance you will have to get primary custody. After all, if she had any concerns with you as a parent, she would never leave. Another argument for not allowing her back. However, until D is filed she can waltz back in at any time. As part of the filing, include the text about her needing to leave so she can grow, she needs to stay out.

I was severely codependent in my first M. Getting a D was the BEST thing that I had ever done. Unfortunately, I didn't resolve those issues and continued to make bad choices in my selection of SO's. My choices led me into 2 more LTR's that both involved infidelity on their part. Hopefully, my second marriage is salvageable. SI hasn't led me wrong yet.

Guess what I'm saying is work on fixing you. If R is in the cards, it's on her. S or D won't matter, she'll take those steps.

Proceed at your own pace brother. We'll be here for you!

Strength

Still reading....

BTW, do you know why I have so much time to devote to this site? Because I am not working; I took the semester off. I am using most of my accrued sick leave that was supposed to be for my (our) retirement to deal with the emotional toll this has taken on me.

Something that I have really been thinking about. Not the money per se, but the fact itself.

What I wanted to say in this post: among the (hundred or so by now?) posts by all of you, the ones that have really set up shop in my brain is this: I am afraid of being alone and abandoned.

Your consistent, insistent response?

I am already alone. I already have been abandoned. I already feel this and have for so long. How much worse could it be without her? At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.

I am already alone. I already have been abandoned. I already feel this and have for so long. How much worse could it be without her? At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.

This. Please, please turn this around. How much better could it be without her and the deliberate cruelty? Life without the daily uncertainty? Watching your kids go through this deliberate shitstorm?

Again, it ends when you say it does. No sooner, no later.

Strength

At least I will have a future without this terrible uncertainty.

^^ This. THIS!

Occasionally, I still have dreams in which I am married to WXW, or at least still involved with her - dealing with her. They're awful dreams. And then I get to wake up and realize that no, all that uncertainty, all that horrible, sickening doubt and fear are all gone. Forever.

For me, it was more than a fair trade for all the bullshit associated with the D itself.

Also, as someone who went through a mediated D, I strongly echo gonnabe's comments (she's pretty smart). We had a good mediator that got us through a few rough patches, and if both parties can make it work, its far, far better. WXW and I both retained our own attorneys to review the draft mediated decree and make comments, but we called the shots.

If it doesn't work, you're out the cost of a mediator, but you probably walk away with a draft decree that is 90% complete (which isn't to say that new attorneys won't insist you start from square one with them, but that's your decison).

You have talked about separation followed by the possibility of reconciliation after your wife has spent a period of time alone, [read-had some exciting affairs].

If she can talk about what type of divorce you both should be adopting, then isn't she already emotionally gone? Planning a future without you and negotiating what to do about the kids.

Whats the point of this separation with no filing? Are you hoping that after your wife has become bored with other affairs, she may come back to you and the marriage?

I think you either file or decide to work on the marriage now before the opportunity is lost. If your wife lacks shame and remorse and you don't think she will work to rebuild your relationship then mercifully end it before things get worse. Choose what path to take and stay out of limbo land.

Don't prevaricate; start the long journey to a better life now and don't look back at the fire consuming your marriage. You are throwing buckets of water on the flames and WW stands idly by, doing nothing.

Hey there...

I don't post that much but your story struck a chord.

There's no doubt my divorce took an emotional tool. My ex moved out a year ago this month...our divorce was final last July. We did a collaborative divorce and were able to get everything straightened out in 4 weeks. From the day he moved out to the day our divorce was final took all of 7 1/2 weeks. Then again, we didn't have kids and I gave him custody of our beloved dog (I ended up adopting another dog a week after the divorce was final...she's the best pup on the planet!)and most of the furniture was mine anyway so all and all it was prety easy from a pragmatic point of view.

From an emotional one, it was heart-wrenching, nerve-wracking and just a horrible experience. I don't want to make it out to be any better because it's not. But I know you have the internal strength to get through it and I applaud the two of you for trying to do it collaboratively as that's a super quick way to get through what can take forever.

I'm the one that cheated and I'm the one that regret it to this day. I made my bed, I lie in it every day and I miss him more than words can express. He didn't want counseling, he didn't want to be in the same room with me. As soon as he found out, we were over and there was no looking back. I moved into the basement and he moved out a month later. I spent the last year in intense therapy and pretty much living like a hermit to figure out why I destroyed the best thing that ever happened to me. It sucked...there were times I wanted to punch my therapist in the face. There were times I wanted to punch myself in the face but looking back a year later I have so much clarity and understanding about me, my relationships and just the human condition in general. No doubt about it, I had a pretty fucked up life but I've finally put some old demons to rest and found out what it means to truly love someone unconditionally...and on the flip side what it means to BE loved the same way.

Abandondad...I know our stories are different but I SO feel how you feel right now. Even though we're not together, we still talk, we still have feelings for each other but there's also a wound that hasn't healed and it's a wound I created. It's something I have to live with for the rest of my life. But I keep moving on, keep living my life to its fullest extent because you know what? Life is short, life is so very precious and time is by far our most precious commodity. The time we spend thinking about stuff like this versus the time we spend doing things much more worthwhile makes use of the short time we have to do the things we want to do.

You two might end up back together. Hell, my ex and I are divorced but thinking about getting back together and doing the work as a couple to get over my infidelity and tackle the issues in our marriage. There's a chance...and I don't want to let go of that. But we went through the whole process of splitting up and we are no longer a "we"...but the connection is still there and we still talk to each other because we both know each other better than anyone else on Earth. So don't look at divorce as the end all be all...it's not as finite as you think. It's like the old philosophical question of pre-determination vs. free will. I believe there's a little bit of both...but never say never.

((HUGS))

Hello my friends,

I just called my wife and asked three questions:

1) are you still in contact with him?

Yes.

2) do you plan on seeing him while we are separated?

I would consider not seeing him

3) are you in love with him?

Silence, followed by some blather about having certain needs met, not like love she has for me.. I tuned her out.

I apologized for flip flopping on my agreeing to another separation and sent her the names of two collaborative attorneys whom my attorney has worked with successfully before.

Please send me strength to carry through with this.

Strength

Mojo

Prayers

ETA "I tuned her out." Excellent response.

[This message edited by 5454real at 1:45 PM, May 1st (Wednesday)]

No contact mean no new hurts.

Contact her again and she will hurt you again. You are not a punching bag so stop being one.

mathematically speaking the odds are in your favor that you would find another to love you

Keep moving forward and control what you can control which is your actions. You will be fine.

I would consider not seeing him

That means I will see him but you won't find out

are you in love with him?

Silence, followed by some blather about having certain needs met

Thats a hurtful and tactless statement that she loves you spiritually, whatever that means, but needs the OM for sexual satisfaction.

Consider the following. File for divorce and tell your WW that unless she develops some intense remorse pretty soon, the marriage is finished. Right now she believes she can have her cake and eat it; she knows you will take her back because you need her so much and have a terrible fear of abandonment. If you can get her to realize that this is not true and you WILL file and terminate the marriage if you separate, then maybe you can jolt her back into reality. The core of your problem is your wife thinking you will not leave her, or divorce, because you are weak and needy. You have reinforced this attitude by refusing to file.

However, its hard to envisage a successful reconciliation with a woman who needs other men to satisfy certain needs and has the nerve to tell you.

(((((Abbondad))))) Sending you all kinds of strength. This part sucks out loud, but you WILL get through it. And when you're on the other side of it? The sun shines far brighter than you can imagine.

Just spoke to the wife on her way home. She is surprisingly calm for her and just had questions about how to tell the kids, when, the process of collaborative divorce... No crazy behavior. (Yet I hope.).

Asked if I was sure. I said I am. Asked if I will change my mind. I assured her I won't.

Help me allay my fears. If your situation mirrors mine in any way--specifically, if you loved your spouse (or thought you loved her/him) but just knew it wasn't going to work, yet feared intensely divorcing--what was your "happy ending?"

How/When did you realize that your fears were ultimately unjustified once you took the plunge?

I thought I loved my ex. I was pretty sure my world would fall apart without him. I remember many threads telling me to just leave. That he wasn't changing. He wasn't going to. So, I tried harder...unfortunately, I couldn't try hard enough to make him happy. Because I was never the problem.

I stayed far too long, and my kids saw far too much. I finally kicked him out, and felt relieved. I was home alone, with a 2 yr old and 4 yr old, in the beginning of winter, with no heat, no income, and no idea of what I was going to do, but, I was finally feeling ok. After a couple years of feeling horrible with the man I "couldn't live without", I felt pretty good without him.

That isn't to say I always felt great, or that I didn't ever wonder if I made the right choice. There were nights I cried myself to sleep. But, there were plenty of those when he was telling me he loved me too. And, at least now, I could get my feet under me, maybe there wasn't much there to stand on, but, I could see that and knew how to fix it. There was no longer someone standing there, spinning me in circles then pulling the rug out from under me.

I didn't know my fears were unjustified until I finally decided I didn't care anymore. Until I decided to take a leap of faith on myself rather than another failed leap of faith for him.

My happy ending includes two children who seem happy and well adjusted. My own college graduation next weekend. The ability to relax. A peaceful home. The confidence to know, that I was able to fix my life, just not him. Eventually, it did include a new husband.

But, it also included having to see my ex husband almost every other weekend. And, see, that is never was me. He claimed the affairs were my fault, the abuse was my fault, the kids crying and hiding while he screamed at me was my fault. So, getting rid of me should have made his life perfect, right? Except, it didn't. When he was with me, he had a 3 bedroom house on a couple acres, a couple cars, a decent job, a loving wife and two little boys who adored him.

Now? (and since we split) he has had a dozen jobs and girlfriends, never had another house, at best, he had one bedroom apartments by railroad tracks. Crappy jobs. I couldn't see HE was the problem, until HE was the only one left to blame. Now, I can't for the life of me remember what I loved about him in the first place.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how calm your life feels when she is out of your house, how relieved you feel when you accept that you don't have to worry about who she is with anymore. It could happen immediately, but, it probably won't. But, it will happen.

Wishing you strength and speedy peace with this.

And this means absolutely nothing now (and may even seem insensitive and tactless from where you are right now), but you aren't being abandoned. You're being FREED. Freed to live your life and to be loved how you deserved to be loved, by someone BETTER than her.

Stay strong. It gets better.