SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Lies hurt,

No, this behavior has been going on for awhile in different manifestations. It's just reached a head as tensions between my wife and I have built. We are trying to take a breath and soothe the kids.

Please, everyone, understand. I am doing the best I can in an awful, confusing situation. I don't want to confuse the kids and this seems to be a hopefully workable approach.

If it crashes or just obviously isn't working then I am willing to take other more "bandage-ripping" approaches.

We are going for in-house separation for a while because the kids are breaking down.

Based on your story and posts I would suggest rethinking this. It takes a very strong resolve to live parallel lives in the same household with young children involved.

You may only see her for a few hours in the evening but are you really ready to face her with indifference?

You may only see her for a few hours in the evening but are you really ready to face her with indifference

Yes, I am. I have been faking it in so many ways for so long I am ok with it.

And hopefully it won't be for long. (We are not talking months here!)

In house separation is Hell on wheels. Did it for a year while my D went through it's iterations. Keeping a civil tounge was very difficult at various times.

Just to prepare you for one of the issues that is bound to come up, have an answer ready for them asking "why?". Not saying that in a snarky or obtuse way. What I mean is that you are going to tell them

we love each other

and they are going to witness you guys

(no fighting and definitely no more discussions about "u

s"). It's confusing enough for BS, Let alone kids.

BTDT. Just wanted you to have a heads up. Something I hadn't thought of beforehand in my D.

Strength

"Are you in IC?"

Yes, I am.

"...you re-enacted her childhood rape to fit your fantasies."

Huh? Uh, no.

"Take responsibility for your part in this clusterfuck."

As I have reported on these forums many times, I do and I have. My deep remorse has been expressed tearfully countless times to my wife together and in MC.

But I will not be punished forever for a horrible decision. I had no crystal ball nor a degree in adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse and what not to do.

I do not mean to sound flippant. I feel guilt. But never once has my wife expressed an iota of guilt to me. Never. And condemn me if you like, but I deserve this.

AD,

You both chose together to have a funky sex life. Big deal. She messed that shit up when she started lying. Ask anyone that is a part of the "swinger" community, what is rule #1? NO SECRETS.

My concern is about your kids, and I honestly think you two cohabitating, is only going to confuse and muddy the waters more.

You need to be open and honest with those kids. Stop the cycle of Crazy now.

Sit them down, and tell them, this has nothing to with them, you love them, and will always love them and will always put them first. Mom and you just can no longer be together because you are not good for each other. Let he put her spin on it however she wants. Your older child has already picked up on the mess, and craziness. He does NOT need to reassured that you two are going to be ok. He needs to be reassured (and constantly) that you both love him very much, and that life is going to change for all of you, but everything will be ok.

What the heck happened to her going to her own place. Even though you don't want to let it happen she is still manipulating the situation.

When she is out of the house you and your kids will feel an enormous sense of relief without worrying about her next crazymaking step.

((((and strength))))

Have to agree here Abbondad. In-house S will not help the kids and it will NOT help you. believe me - been there. it's awful.

I think you have to rip off the band-aid here - tell the kids what's happening and let her move out. Then focus all your love onto the kids and press ahead with the D.

This is such a hard stage, but it is necessary if you want to get to the other side, and you do.

Good luck

V

Oh and BTW, scrap the past that some want to still bring up. We all know the whole story AD and it doesn't alter one bit what is happening now. Concentrate on *now* and forget about the rest.

^^^^^Agreed.

Veritas - I gently would like to say that I believe your statements were over the top and uncalled for in this situation.

AD - Are you making plans for your kids to get some counseling during this time? I also have to chime in with a vote for your W to move out as quickly as possible. I think that it will be VERY difficult to get the house feeling like a stable, safe environment for your kids with you both in it.

Beyond that stay strong and thanks for continuing to share your story. Good luck this weekend - I assume you'll be sitting the kids down this weekend?

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 8:43 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

Children are so perceptive and they know much more than we ever think they do.

We told my son as soon as we decided to separate. My ex moved into the spare room until he found an apartment, so my DS had to be made aware of the situation.

I have an analogy from my own past experience. It is like walking past the door where your supervisor and boss are meeting. They see you and shut the door. You spend the rest of the day, or week, feeling paranoid and anxious. You don't know what they were talking about, it may have nothing to do with you, but why was the door shut. What were they talking about and what does that mean for your future? That is how your children feel when you try to keep them in the dark. They are constantly anxious and worried. They need the truth and reassurance that mom and dad will always love them and be there for them even if they no longer live together.

They need to know that this had nothing to do with them and they will always be loved and cherished. Explain how their lives may change and answer all their questions. If you don't quell their fears then the behaviors you are seeing are going to get worse.

I remember when we spoke to my son, we took him to where dad was going to be living so he could see it, and you could actually see the strain leaving his body when he realized that dad wasn’t far away and he could see him whenever he wanted.

Just keep in mind that keeping them in the dark for their own good does not work.

You have my support in this tough situation and I hope you find some peace soon.

Tush and Velv,

Again, here is what I am concerned with. My wife is literally teetering on the edge of a breakdown once she saw I am serious--that I want a divorce.

I DON'T want my children exposed to this. Even if she moves out today, she WILL implode and my kids will freak, to put it mildly.

I want to minimize damage to our kids. That is all I want.

She is convinced--maybe delusionally--that she will be better able to collect herself if we don't jump into divorce right at this minute. And thus we will be able to tell the kids more calmly and collectively, making their road less stressful.

I understand that it seems that once again she is steering the ship and/or deliberately or not deliberately manipulating me with her emotional fucked-up-ness.

I am trying to navigate my exit out of this drama and minimize the damage to our children.

Should I just take an up-or-down vote on the forum? I am utterly drained and confused. But again, I AM DIVORCING.

Ask your IC about counselors in your area for your kids.

Stay strong,go NC as much as you can, and keep detaching. The thing I found about being Co-D and doing inhouse Seperation was the more I detached the more I wanted her gone. Not saying this will happen to you but start actively building your own life again without your WW in it even while she is in the house.

She will continue to implode. You may be able to hold it together for the kids but she may not. In my situation, we were able to work out a balance to coexist in the house but we both suffer in our own ways. I stay frustrated that my life is basically on pause and count down the days until she is out and my WW literally had to watch me fade away from her as I detached. While I don't have sympathy for her I know it hurt her that she had to watch it and realize she no longer held any sway over me. She now wonders what I am doing, she tells friends she thinks I am cheating, and in general tries to project her moods and feelings onto me. Her mind is the one spinning all the time instead of mine. Her issues and they aren't my problem but I just wanted to let you know what is happening in my case. I literally assumed everything she told me had a sinister motive behind it and it helped me to detach.

Also be prepared for the RAGE and it's likely going to be you that has it. It may not happen because we all process differently but at some point after a BS comes out of their own FOG (I was in one as well) the anger phase is super charged. This especially sucks if you were the one trying to fix things while they contantly ignored or continued to crap all over you. This is pure, seething, hatred, and anger. It's usually driven by the realization that we actually "allowed" our WS to crap all over us for an extended period of time. You will be pissed at her and yourself but if you go through it, this is normal as well. Just work through it and focus on what's important. Go to the gym, go running, do whatever you have to to focus that energy in a direction that has a non negative impact on you and your famiily.

Work on that list man, your kids will love it and need the extra attention and support during all of this.

Allowing her back in may be like bringing the gasoline back into an already burning house to try to put the fire out but each of us has their own path. My guess is that now that she is back you won't be able to get her out again even if she does start messing with other man. SO run this and any other things you deem necessary by your lawyer to make sure you are protecting yourself in this process.

ETA: Take some deep breaths. You will get bombarded by people giving you advice and suggestions. As always take what applies and leave the rest. Walk the path you have to walk to get through this. After some time go back and read some of your initial posts to see how far you have actually come and I found that much of the advice that I didn't think applied at that particular time in the past may be just what I needed to hear at that moment. It also gave me some perspective on how things currently were for me. Sending you strength.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:08 AM, May 3rd (Friday)]

AD, gently back at you:

' ". . . I must correct your characterization of events that transpired what is now two years ago, which I think now qualifies officially as "the past." '

You think it is in the past, but the debris field from events that you describe have the half life of uranium and the penetration of neutron radiation.

As to core rules being broken? Perhaps there was a primary rule of protection and fidelity that was broken at your mere suggestion that your wife have sex with other men and tell you about it to spice up your, and her, sex life? Many spouses, especially women, would have to detach from their husband, and their marriage, in order to accomplish that.

I remember you posting that her sister texted that your WW can't, or shouldn't, be with you. Her sister might have been referring to, and what others have mentioned, is that your wife isn't safe with you.

This is for when you get a little further down the road but you might want to think about "nesting" as an arrangement for your kids. It is where the kids stay put and the parent rotate in and out of the house. My ex and I did this for awhile and I also know of another situation when they did this. All the kids involved has so far grown into great kids. You do have to do what's right for your kids.

Sorry so much hate is coming your way.

Hey Abbondad, when you do tell the kids and she moves out, I think you'll be really surprised how much better things will be than you can imagine. My kids both found life a million times better when all the lies had gone from the house. That was what really got to them. My son (then 14) wrote a song called 'Lies and Deceit' with his band... although yours are much younger, they are clearly stressed out. When the day comes, it won't be as bad for them as you imagine. Wishing you strength.

Update:

Wife nears nervous breakdown as I press forward toward divorce. Can't function at new job, doesn't want a divorce.

Kids are seeing this and getting nervous, wondering mommy and daddy are crying all the time.

Wife asks for separation instead of divorce. I agree as I want her out of the house so the kids won't be exposed to this.

Wife has panic attack tonight and says she must leave immediately so we can "grow" in our relationship, says I am too controlling and won't let her "grow." I retort (quietly, calmly) that perhaps the reason she senses I have been controlling is that she lied and reestablished contact with the AP and I would be more inclined to "let her grow" if she were not having an affair (physical or not at this point).

Logic fails to penetrate utter self absorption and she leaves in tears as six year old begs her not to go and nine year old slams out of the house.

Calls in tears and says she wants her family and "can't do this to the children" (meaning separate).

No allusion to the obvious: if,she wants her family back and wants to "heal" then no other man may be in her life. Will this tiny little detail occur to her?

I think not.

Husband pissed and quite bored with the drama.

Oh, and our dachshund bit the one remaining kid in the neighborhood she had not bitten. Mom comes over and says her husband will shoot her if this happens again.

Good times...

She is utterly and completely toxic to you AD. I know you think you are protecting your kids if you let her stay... But I swear, that level of crazy is not good for them. In fact, I'd even say its worse for them to be living with the emotionally unstable people you and your WW have become.

I hope, for real, that you can find the strength to leave her once and for all. Toxic, AD... Toxic.

Logic fails to penetrate utter self absorption and she leaves in tears as six year old begs her not to go and nine year old slams out of the house.

This pisses me off to no end.

No wonder your kids are nervous, having to see such drama at their age. Honestly, you and the wifey need to get your shit together and please stop exposing the children to such antics. They need to be in IC asap, and if your wife is going to continue to act like a melodramatic queen then I am not sure in house separation is your best option.

She is a walking, talking, toxic mess. You are struggling with co-dependency issues. She needs to be outta there, asap.

doesn't want a divorce

Actions, not words.

Kids are seeing this and getting nervous, wondering mommy and daddy are crying all the time.

Not good on so many levels. You need to be their rock and with her there, it's not going to happen.

Wife asks for separation instead of divorce.

Time to find a way to re assert dominance in your relationship.

Wife has panic attack tonight and says she must leave immediately so we can "grow" in our relationship, says I am too controlling and won't let her "grow."

You've BTDT. She's panicking and needs the OM fix.

I retort (quietly, calmly) that perhaps the reason she senses I have been controlling is that she lied and reestablished contact with the AP and I would be more inclined to "let her grow" if she were not having an affair (physical or not at this point).

Good, but you're merely stating the obvious to someone who refuses to see. Next time try, "I'm sorry you feel that way", don't give her the satisfaction of a real response.

utter self absorption and she leaves

Absolutely. These are the same kids she made the promise to? Did she even try to alleviate their fears?

Calls in tears and says she wants her family and "can't do this to the children" (meaning separate).

After a quick call to the OM who realizes it's not NSA sex tonight and turns her down.(Or won't answer at this point)

No allusion to the obvious: if,she wants her family back and wants to "heal" then no other man may be in her life. Will this tiny little detail occur to her?

I think not.

Not while she still thinks/believes/hopes that she can intimidate you.

Husband pissed and quite bored with the drama.

Good, remove the drama.

Strength brother. It's a heck of a ride. I am going to argue semantics here. She's not imploding and doing damage only to herself, she's exploding and doing as much collateral damage as possible.

You have the choice of when it ends.

She is utterly and completely toxic to you AD. I know you think you are protecting your kids if you let her stay... But I swear, that level of crazy is not good for them. In fact, I'd even say its worse for them to be living with the emotionally unstable people you and your WW have become.

and

This pisses me off to no end.

No wonder your kids are nervous, having to see such drama at their age. Honestly, you and the wifey need to get your shit together and please stop exposing the children to such antics. They need to be in IC asap, and if your wife is going to continue to act like a melodramatic queen then I am not sure in house separation is your best option.

She is a walking, talking, toxic mess. You are struggling with co-dependency issues. She needs to be outta there, asap

x1000!

Enough is enough. Protect your children from this drama. Wanting to present a united front after your children have already witnessed this behavior will only cause your children more confusion and an inability to trust their instincts.

Don't protect your wife and her role in your household. Protect your children. If that means your wife falling apart and leaving, then she probably would have done it anyway. You are prolonging the agony of the situation. Your children can only begin to heal when they understand the ground they are standing on. It's not fair but their strength and cues will only come from you. That means you must stop taking your cues from her.

Abbondad, my ex husband was told on a Thursday that our marriage was over and he needed to move out when he could find a place. I was okay wiht himi sleeping in the spare room and taking a little time to get himself together. He had no employment, so I knew it might be a few weeks. Friday he was all nice, washed the dishes, took the garbage out, chenged his son's nappy. Saturday he got a bit bored of being "good" and started the emotional blackmail. Sunday he was weeping, Monday he was flailing in the kitchen, threatening to kill himself. In front of the kids.

I took him to the hospital and left him when he was admitted into a psych ward. When I went back to take him some personal things, I walked in on him as he was laughing and making friends with the nice nurse.

Against all the pressure from him, from my friends, from the hospital staff, I refused to take him back. Refused. Having an adult manipulating me like that, being "on the edge" around the kids.

I am sorry, but this issue of her being "okay" is her manipulating this situation by way of her mental health is just that - a manipulation. Oh, I know I dont know her. But I have read enough to see that she has you in knots.

Believe me, if you show her the door quick smart she will rant and rave and have a "breakdown" and the kids will be traumatised. And then when she is living away from you not having any attention paid to her, she will make a miraculous recovery.

You are a very dear, kind man, but I think at the moment htis quality is being used against you.

Please believe me, I say this as someone who was the poster child for co-dependency, and who grew up watching my father abuse my mother for forty years in exactly the same way. I put up with the "please dont leave me when I need you the most, please dont leave me or I will lose everything include my mental health, and how can you do this to meeee and to uuuuuus" for years. And believed it. I look back and see that I even sought out the compay of other women who propped up weak and cowardly men who all stayed home or changed jobs or checked out of responsibilities and consequences due to their own fear of a nervous breakdown.

i have had my own issues with depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts. I am currently on medication myself. But as a depression and anxiety sufferer, I would NEVER put my children through this. Ever. If there was a HINT that my kids could see or where aware that my behaviour, my marriage breakdown, or the emotional safety of them was in any way at risk, him or I would have been out the door. Which is what happened.

We are six years out now, and the ex is still a douche, but we parent well together. The kids saw and heard some things I wish they hadnt - and trust me, believe me - they wait quietly outside doors - they know something is going on, even by the atmosphere. But we all worked through it, two steps forward and one step back.

I realise this comes in the form of the 2 x 4, but it is done kindly and with real concern and experience.