SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MJ: As to showing her your naked pain and anger without filter:

If you ultimately choose to D, then showing this to her will not hurt you in any way because she will be out of your life.

If you ultimately decided to try R, you will have already started down the path of transparency and brutal honesty that underpins a successful R.

By the way, I'd strongly suggest that you read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair." The book is directed to waywards, but there is a lot of good information for betrayeds in there.

As to the "it was just sex" thing, it never ceases to amaze me how profoundly many women fail to understand that this is possibly the single most hurtful thing a WW could say to her BH about her A. There is a giant gulf of understanding between women and men on this issue. To a man's ears, "it was just sex" translates as, "He was such a sexual God that I was willing to risk our marriage and your physical health, I was willing to lie to you and cheat, just to feel his cock inside me, even though he didn't give me anything else but his delicious cock. I have so much more desire for him than I ever did for you."

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:43 AM, July 18th (Wednesday)]

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this SI SI-friend.

I personally (for one) never got over the betrayals.

Some of us - despite wanting to - never do.

And this might be for a number of reasons.

I took SI advice early on, and tried to talk to my WH.

I feel that i made myself very vulnerable, describing my distress, pain incomprehension, anger, sadness, madness.

I was willing to at least try to R, despite over 30 years of lying and cheating.

It was a non-starter for me.

My WH scorned my vulnerability and pain (get a grip)

Didn't want to hear about MY hurt. (said I was being a mean bitch - to him for expressing my pain)

Refused counselling. (Not talking about our business to any nosy parker strangers)

LOVED the 180 - and 180'd me right back.

I Refused any sexual contact with him - like you, not some sort of punishment. But because I am repulsed by him.

Revolted at what he's done and what he is.

You walk your own path,

But if you would like to reconcile, there just isn't a magic recipe I'm afraid.

You'll get lots of advice, but you have to walk in your own shoes through this shit.

I highly recommend that you seek an individual Counsellor (IC) that you can talk things through with.

Sending you strength and empathy,

MOB

Mj

everything you are going through happened to all of us. Anytime a spouse cheats, we all think it was because they were better. The truth is they were not. You could have been a porn star with the biggest one ever, and it would not of mattered or changed anything. She still would have cheated. The reason being is that it has nothing to do with you , it has to do with her. My wife said some pretty crappy things to me about him so much so that anytime I referred to him I called him her porn star boyfriend. She hated that. The truth is whether he is bigger or better had no play in her cheating. My wife cheated on me with a former drugged out loser who lived in a crappy rental with his mother and didn't even have a credit card to take her to a motel. He also was not a looker because when I showed his picture to one of her friends, she gagged and said she would never do him no matter how drunk she was.

Sop you have to remember it's all about the wayward wanting to feel wanted and ego bits. They exchanged anything to keep it coming. So no matter what you did or who you are, it has nothing to do with her decisions.

Also, try and not to feel inadequate because that too is not so. Remember no matter who you are or what you are, there is always going to be someone who is better. I remember those old westerns where there was always someone called the fastest gun in the west and no matter what, there always turned out to be someone faster. That's just how the world is. There will always be someone who is younger or better, that's not something to be ashamed of. My wife's so called boyfriend was 14 years younger than me. There was no way I, in my 50's was going to be able to compete with a much younger guy sexually in his 30's. That's just the simple truth and that's what I told her. I said go and be with him if he was so great. She didn't want to go so what does that tell you.

Stay if you want because it is all up to you. Sometimes it could be a deal breaker. that's up to you to decide. Just don't feel bad because again, it has nothing to do with you. Good luck.

Dude, why are you comparing yourself with someone who has such low self esteem they have sex with a married woman?

He has nothing on you. He’s an asshole and a dishonourable prick. Walk around with your head held high.

MJ

Reading your posts makes it even clearer to me that this isn’t about the sex.

I think there are two major issues you need to deal with:

Your trauma from infidelity.

Communications in the marriage.

Infidelity is possibly the biggest trauma you will encounter in life. Ignoring the trauma or trying to self-heal the trauma is not likely to work.

I am – in the strongest words possible – going to encourage YOU to get professional help. You can do this in several stages/phases:

These two you can do NOW:

Start by ensuring you are eating. Preferably eating healthy, but make sure you are consuming calories, so your body can function normally.

Exercise. Hit the gym, take walks, start jogging. Just make sure you get some physical activity, even if it’s only a 15-minute walk down the street.

Contact your doctor and ask about some mild sleeping-aids or anxiety help. Most of us are reluctant to do this, being afraid of addiction and/or dependency. But if you decide ahead of time to get the mildest ones you can and have a predetermined period (60-90 days) in mind then this can work like a crutch while you seek other more permanent treatment.

Find a good IC. Shop around. Find one that is good in marital trauma and infidelity. Possibly your IC can eventually become your MC. But start with YOU. Chances are the affair makes you depressed. You definitely show signs of PTSD. You feel imprisoned, trapped… Get some help because a good, trained professional can help you in a very short time to get out of infidelity.

I am about as confident and self-assured as they come. I walked in on my then-fiancé having sex with another man some 30 years ago. This was before the internet and online forums and SI and all that stuff but basically, I did the near-perfect 180 and detachment. I left that relationship and about 2 years later met my present wife. I was certain I had left this all behind. About 15 years into my present marriage we ran into some rough spots and frankly they were mainly my fault. I had the sense to seek IC and was quickly diagnosed with rampant PTSD. The PTSD was partially linked to experiences I had as a cop but MAINLY due to the infidelity. Once diagnosed it only took a few sessions learning coping-mechanisms to deal with it.

What I’m trying to get across is that you can leave this marriage but if you don’t do something about YOUR trauma you will simply bring it along into any future relationship you try to establish.

I see some positives in your WW actions but also a lot of negatives. Once again, I think that might boil down to communications. If she’s not seeking IC, then I don’t think her ability to become a good spouse will improve.

Comments like it only being about the sex minimize the trauma, and if she minimizes or if YOU allow her to get away with minimization then IMHO there isn’t much chance of a good marriage.

Keep in mind that you have access to a resource like this one, but she probably is doing this all on her own.

I’m going to make this suggestion regarding your marriage:

This is based on what you share that the active affair seems to be over.

Tell your wife how damaging the infidelity really is. Make it clear that it’s traumatized you and that you are far from recovering from her actions. Make it clear that divorce is still a possible outcome but that now you would want to feel assured that you had done what YOU can do to work on the marriage. Then offer a 60 to 90 day period where you both focus on IC and simply try to coexist. Basically, this period is used for both of you to get to a better place where you two as individuals are better suited to work together on the infidelity and it’s wrecking effects on your marriage.

You don’t like her last IC? Well… Start with YOU finding your own IC. Ask him/her if it’s a good idea that the same IC handle both of you and eventually becomes MC. If not then again – start by finding your IC and ask that one to recommend someone for your wife.

If you do this then also agree to spend an hour every Saturday simply evaluating if you are making progress and setting some scale on if you are closer to wanting to reconcile or divorce. No matter what that answer is then stick to the originally negotiated/offered 60-90 day period.

I am also going to encourage you to at least google divorce in your state and evaluate in an honest way it might impact you. Better still see an attorney. This isn’t done because you plan to divorce, but rather to have a better understanding of your options.

MJ,

*Every* emotion, fear, thought and reaction you have and are experiencing are righteous and valid. You retreat to a place of safety by staying out late and returning to your den. You protect yourself because the presence and sight of your wife disgusts you. She will come to you for sex and about once a week you'll go with her to the bedroom.

You are going to have to do something different to get a different result. And I'm not talking about divorce or reconciliation with your wife. I'm talking about you recovering from the trauma. We want you to recover no matter what you decide to do about your marriage. Any steps you take on a path to recovery can help you decide on your future. That might be divorce. It might mean reconciliation with your wife. The most important thing about taking steps toward your recovery would be a change in the current status quo.

At best (and I expect it is minimally best), your current place and means of safety keeps you from further harm. However, that discounts the long term negative effects of that strategy: it isn't a path of healing and recovery.

I urged you before to seek help from a trauma/infidelity informed IC. Your DIY method of not coming home until late and then retreating to the den yields minimal results: you avoid being triggered by your wife whose presence and sight disgusts you. I don't see where that is a viable strategy for you to recover.

I agree with other posters that you can try using her as a sex object. When she comes to you in the den, take her right then and there. Be watchful that this course of action doesn't become a substitute for acting out repressed feeling of anger/rage, because then it will lead to abusive mistreatment. So that's one DIY method you can try to get you out of the current status quo.

The exact opposite of that approach would be to take small baby steps of physical touching and physical intimacy that are not sexual. This presumes your level of disgust would still allow you to accept her touching you.

Keep posting. You're searching for answers. That means you are accepting of help and that you do want the current status quo to change.

Hey MJ. Just a note to let you know that your feelings and behavior are normal given what you're going through. Don't think that what you're doing is wrong. You're defending yourself from further pain and you're dealing with feelings toward your betrayer. There's nothing unusual in how you're dealing with this. It's not unusual for a BS to have intermittent emotional difficulties for a year or two. You're normal.

Over time, you may want to change your daily routine up a bit. Take up a hobby; start golfing with friends; start a new project; do something that's different and requires involvement and time. Changing up your routine will help to temporarily take your mind off of your situation. Meeting new people or doing something that you enjoyed years ago are all good things. Take a trip alone or with a friend or family member to the beach or forest, or somewhere that interests you. These things will help you to clear your mind and think more circumspectly.

And always keep in mind that this situation is temporary. It's painful but temporary. Take care of yourself.

20 + year’s later I still deal with it

WH gets NO blow jobs courtesy of this. It used to be something I enjoyed doing, but his desire to have gutter slime suck him off, while we were married, turned that right off.

I am sorry you’re in the same boat

Honestly she won't know anything if you don't tell her. She did something that she new was wrong and lied about it. What makes you think she is intuitive enough to figure it out on her own ? She is broken enough to cheat on you she certainly isn't going to be able to emphasize until she hears it from you.

Her IC gave her terrible advice. It is up to you what you do or do not know.

Have you asked her for a written timeline ? One with sexual details and one without.

Has she been tested for STDs? Has she offered to take a polygraph test after the written timeline ?

Are you in IC ? probably a good idea to talk to someone IRL as this crap eats at you like nothing else can.

All these insecurities you have that you have never voiced to your wife is 100% not helping you. If you don't tell her how you feel then she will never know what you are feeling. If she never knows what you are feeling then she will never know what she can do to try and help you. If she doesn't know how to try and help you then you will be stuck where you are forever. If you are stuck then things will never get any better. If things never get better then you might as well divorce and go your separate ways. Hiding in the den doesn't help solving your mental problems. You are 50 and you are hiding from your wife and her infidelity like a teenager. It is time to be the man you want to be and sit her down and tell her all your concerns and insecurities. Then you find a way through this labyrinth, that infidelity has created, with or without her. Decide who has the most to lose at the end. You or her. I was career military and learned very early that indecision will only get you killed. In your case it won't be a bullet it will be the mental anguish, depression, and harboring of the hurt you won't let out. I do wish you well.

My wife fucked him about every two weeks for about a year. I doubt I will ever get over it. I still don't understand how or why she did it. She was an awesome wife. She told me she was always happy with our marriage.

She did it because she is selfish. And lust. She worked with him, he flirted with her, gave her lots of extra attention above and beyond what you were able to give her, and so to keep that adoration coming she paid for the ego kibbles with sex. That's it. Selfishness mixed with lust.

She told me she did it because it was thrilling and exciting. She said it was just sexual. Neither of these two statements helped. They made it worse.

Well at least she is being honest. I guess you have to give her that. Take the selfishness and lust I mentioned earlier, mix naughtiness and danger in with it and that is a heady, addictive brew.

Has anyone who was sexually destroyed by a year long affair ever recovered enough to have a happy marriage ?

I survived and my WW and I are still together. It's a day by day thing, but in our case she has worked her ass off to earn me back and become a safe partner again. I would say we are 50% back kind of where we were before her affair. I imagine it will take another couple years.

I don't get what you mean by "happy". Happiness is a transient emotion, not a state of being. Marriage is hard ass work, commitment and endurance. Once in a while you and your spouse get to enjoy short vacations in the happiness oasis, but soon its back out to trudging the desert. Stop looking for constant bliss. It doesn't exist.

I can only tell you that the only thing that got me over the sexual hump was to just treat my WW like a sex partner...not my wife. It sounds mean, but one day I just got drunk and mad and didn't give a shit anymore whether or not she was enjoying the sex, and I still don't care. I take charge, dominate her and use her for my pleasure. Her sexual satisfaction means absolutely nothing to me now.

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 2:57 PM, July 18th (Wednesday)]

Clarity comes with time. You will reflect back and see things you never thought about before.

Upfront a lot think the world will end. It doesn't.

You just can't live without the wayward. Yep you sure can.

What we had was amazing!!! You may have thought this on your end but it's probably a projection of your feelings not hers or she wouldn't have stepped out of the marriage would she?

From your posts you are shocked/confused. Who wouldn't be?

After your emotions die down a bit you will come to a realization on what you want. Make no mistake infidelity will be a gift that keeps on giving. Whether you can live with it or not depends on you. You are smarter than a lot not jumping into R or MC at this time. There is nothing written that you have to do anything at this time. Everyone is on your schedule and no one else's.

Your wife served you a shit sandwich. Whether you eat it or not is totally up to you.

It might be a good idea to take a vacation away by yourself. Visit family, friends, etc. Time and distance may get you more clarity quicker.

[This message edited by Marz at 9:31 PM, July 20th (Friday)]

why are you still with her ?

What do you see in her that has value and what do you see that can get this in the past.

IMO, you can't get this in the past.

So what if you were to cut your losses. Where would that put you ?

I agree with Marz. Take a vacation, plot a strategy for yourself

Speaking as BS ‘older but not a lot wiser’, - since OP questions his sexual ‘prowess’, desirability, etc., perhaps a few extremely positive sexual encounters (therapy, if you like) would help him regain confidence.

Hiring an escort (where it’s legal) can give a no-strings boost.

Depends on the person whether they would be able to have a couple dates with an escort and not let guilt ruin any help it did.

Ok so sex is more than just pumping away. I think the main problem you are having is with intimacy. Some people need intimacy in order to feel comfortable to perform sexually. I think you should concentrate in regaining intimacy and trust. Mutual massages, cuddles, etc. Don’t worry about your boner so much just try and enjoy the closeness.

MJ,

I am sorry you are having physical side effects from your wife's infidelity. You are not alone regarding sexual issues after being betrayed by your spouse. It is quite common. Based upon your description the sexual problems are caused by emotional injury and more specifically anxiety.

Anxiety is a primary cause of many sexual issues.

Anxiety is simply a fear in your mind based on a story you make up. The more anxious you are the worse the fear can become. And that fear hijacks your sexuality. Having the other man present is a manifestation of this.

The anxiety cycle of sexual dysfunction goes something like this:

“I am afraid because my wife prefers the other man sexually. His penis was inside her..... I lost an erection,” which then causes erectile dysfunction which then makes it difficult to get an erection, and then creates anxiety about the next time. Now add sexual shame, humiliation of being betrayed, feelings of inadequacy and you get worthlessness.

Anxiety spirals are not failures. They are momentary emotional states that are expressed through your sexual performance.

Instead of letting your anxiety control your sexual performance, anxiety is likely a sign that you have been triggered by something that has thrown you– temporarily – back into the crisis mode similar to when discovery occurred. In your case it is visualization and speculation about their sexual acts.

Communication has suffered from your wife's affair. Both the sexual issues and communication issues are signs that it is time to talk with your partner about your feelings. Let her know you are temporarily feeling unsettled, but that these feelings will pass, and you may need reassurance from her to help you get back on track so that you can work on your erotic recovery together.

You likely will need professional help. Healing on your own is difficult. You will heal. You will not be back here forever. Remember, the phases of recovery are temporary as you journey through infidelity. Sometimes we do get stuck; but you can get unstuck. We can and will get through this. Will we be changed .... yes. For the better....many times. Will we have scars....you bet.

MJ, I bet if you were to D and have a new GF, you wouldn’t have this problem right? You W”W” is causing this, it’s her fault, there’s nothing wrong with you. She broke it, she’ll have to fix it.

I’m not sure you are still reafing this thread, but this goes for other readers as well:

A fathful loving husband will always be a better lover than a OM. A husband will know his wife, what she likes and doesn’t like, “what’s in the mood for” and will treat her with RESPECT.

An OM will treat a W”W” has an object, a prostitute. If she likes that better, she can go to the AM website and get a hundred guys “who is better at sex” a day.

If you D, you’ll be in demand and you’ll have no problems in the bedroom. However no sane man would touch your W”W” with a ten foot pole, except for no strings attach sex.

How are you doing? Many have suggested that you share your feelings about the damage your WW has done (and I agree).

For me, I'm not a great talker when I'm emotional.

It's impossible for me to share verbally when I'm experiencing a strong emotional trauma. And trying to talk while shaking with emotion makes me feel weak. I'm also from the generation where men aren't supposed to cry or show weakness.

My solution (which worked well for me) was to write my feelings down on paper every day. Everything the good bad and ugly. You can edit it and craft each word before giving it to the WW. Plus writing it out helped me process the mixed emotions.

Finally, since people only remember 20% of what you say to them. Insist she re read your emotional journey every day.