SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just my 2 cents. Feb and Mrs. Feb should be each others #1 priority, always.

I would venture to say if any of our WS's put any of us BS's as their #1 priority we wouldn't be here.

And, I will admit my FWH wasn't my #1 priority, my children were, and that is wrong. I used to believe that children should be #1 in a family, but I learned the hard way that is not what should be the priority in the marriage.

He found someone who he thought made him her #1 priority. She

dropped everything to go hook up with him at a hotel or a park with a 10 minute notice.

I am not saying his A was my fault, because obviously I wasn't his #1 priority. If we had both put each other as our #1 priority we wouldn't be here.

Hmmmm..where to start?

She has reluctantly agreed to the passwords and transparency. She has said things like "I will never do that again." "I hurt you and our family. Others are suffering. I destroyed myself." She didn't ride again yesterday (that's 6 days). She wants counselling now. She is asking if we can spend time together as a couple. She wants to "re-connect" with me, etc.

She still doesn't want me to go on the 4 day trip (although it is still not a definite that I can go...red tape regarding #s, may not be decided until early next week), but realizes that she has to. She asked me again to stay home from work (I didn't). She suggested a family trip this weekend to an indoor waterpark (her mole removal is today, so I'm guessing I was wrong about the tummy tuck, ooops, can't imagine she'd want to be around me in a bikini for two days if she was lying). I said no to that because of the cost. I pointed out our pattern of her not listening whenever I brought up finances, and me rarely saying no, when she wanted to go somewhere or buy something. (not that we were big spenders, except at the bike shop, or frequent travellers - mostly camping and the odd weekend getaway)

I think we may be on the verge of moving into R, but I am still cautious.

Defending my lifestyle (cycling and racing)

Feb,

Maybe way to early but I think the competitive cycling days are over…

I’ve mentioned this before but I sense that you two have the same interest/hobby but chose to follow it in separate groups. So basically the day-to-day stuff is divided between you two, but the “me-time”, socializing and so on is with separate groups. I THINK (no stats or proof here…) that men handle solitude and alone time better. That’s why we go for fishing, hunting and stuff that requires quiet and solitude. For women the social factor is more important. Like I say – my theory and no stats or research…

bigger,

I would still like to race, but not as often, and certainly not soon. You are right about the "alone time". I was way more okay with it. Years ago, I used to ride with our local club at 9am until I realized that the delayed start, slow rollout, and bakery stop meant that I would get home after being gone for 5+ hours, having ridden only 100km. That was, to me, an unfair imposition on my family. Eventually, I started leaving before sunrise, and I'd be done 120 or more and be home by 10:00 a.m. I have continued to try to fit in my training with the family barely noticing, whether it was extended commutes, trainer time, or early morning starts. If I get motivated, I will still probably do the same, even if I should be claiming some ME time.

We SHOULD get babysitters and ride together. We used to do that a lot more than we have recently. I remember saying once, in the middle of a fast group MTB ride of a favourite 60km route, that my W had three paces - fun, race, and babysitter pace - with the last one being the fastest, as she couldn't wait to get home - obviously things have changed!

Another red flag of their putting their biking over everyone else and which Mr. Feb already noticed himself is when they left for 10 days on a bike trip, missed his mother's (or MIL, I can't remember) B-day, leaving her as a babysitter, and considered it a B-day gift. Mr. Feb, I was so glad when you wrote that you realized it wasn't such a great gift...it was a selfish justification on your part.

Mr. Feb, your whole family might end up better in the end if the two of you quit putting yourselves and your hobbies before others.

That was a joke not a justification (and believe me, I can now recognize a justification when I see it), and my mom didn't mind, she loves her grandkids. In fact, we held a huge party for her before we left (at my S's place), and I acted as official photographer, making a hardcover book memento for her. That was our first and only vacation without kids in 10 years, not a pattern.

As I said, I woke up at 4:30 in the morning to avoid putting my "hobby" before my family. Our kids have enjoyed going to the bike races, and I think its important that they see us as having our own interests too.

I wanted to add one more thing...our kids love their bikes too...our soon to be 10 year old did a 100km road ride last summer (completely his idea), and our 7 year old is having his birthday party tomorrow at an indoor bike park. They have both raced as well, often at the kids events that accompany ours, but also at kid-only events. We have a tandem designed for kids as young as 5 to be on the back too. It's a shared family activity as well as our hobby.

Just my 2 cents. Feb and Mrs. Feb should be each others #1 priority, always.

We forgot that. I would put my kids first and not get a babysitter to ride with her, thinking it was wrong. But then I remember that they almost always LOVE having a babysitter the rare times we get one, so why would I do that? More couple time if we try to R.

Reluctantly huh?

Did she give it to you right then and there? Or is she going to get around to it?

If there was a delay -- it was so she could delete the evidence.

If there is nothing to hide? Then no reason to be reluctant.

Taking her word for it that she'd never do this again would be a BAD idea.

Keylogger. VAR.

It seems she wants YOU to book the IC MC. If she is so desperate for the help, as she says, why can't she pick up the phone?!

I still think she is playing you. Sorry. There is more to discover.

She has reluctantly agreed to the passwords and transparency.

Key word here: reluctant. Not good enough.

She has said things like "I will never do that again."

Translation: can we just rugsweep this? Since I will 'never' do that again, everything's ok, right?

She needs to figure out WHY she did it in the first place. This is a long and ugly road.

And btw, she ALREADY promised to put you before others - remember those wedding vows? Not good enough.

"I hurt you and our family. Others are suffering.

Translation: I hope this looks like 'taking responsibility'. Not good enough.

I destroyed myself."

boo fucking hoo. SHE should be the LAST person she is concerned about now. Where's the 'oh my god I'm so sorry for what I have done to YOU (Feb), to our family, I want to do whatever it takes to fix that - IF you will give me the chance to do that.

Yeah, not good enough.

She didn't ride again yesterday (that's 6 days). She wants counselling now.

So you're supposed to think that's punishment enough? She's probably ashamed to go riding. And probably depressed too. Counseling is a good idea, but it won't be helpful if it's just a ploy to get you off her case and get things back to 'normal'.

She is asking if we can spend time together as a couple. She wants to "re-connect" with me, etc.

I would be VERY cautious about attempting to 'reconnect' with a spouse who is still foggy and shows NO REMORSE. Her feeling sorry for herself that her world is crumbling around her is NOT REMORSE. Her being RELUCTANT to provide transparency does NOT look like remorse to me.

I do not want to say that there is no hope. Or even that there is little hope. Just that *she's not there yet*. This is NOT what remorse looks like, and I'm so sorry but to me it looks like a prelude to get you into a rugsweeping frame of mind.

Please please please do not fall for it. If she wants to divorce you because you won't 'reconnect' with her RIGHT NOW, then your M wasn't going to last anyway.

Please don't fall into the trap of reading too much hope into every MICRO-step your WW might be taking. I made the mistake of doing that, and I am really stuck right now.

You are strong. You are doing very well. Keep up YOUR requirements for R, and do NOT scrimp on the requirement for TRUE REMORSE - everything else will flow from that.

((((Feb))))

I think you are right in sharing your hobby with your children and family. My kids come to my races all the time and I believe it's exceptionally important, especially in this day and age of obesity and sedentary lifestyles.

That being said. She's talking the talk, right now. It sounds really good, doesn't it? My WH, in the days after DD1 talked a really good talk. Handed over his iPhone, opened up his facebook. Passed it allllll over. Unfortunately he had deleted everything before he handed it over.

Point being...she's depressed. She's going to seek out something to make her feel better. That's what that type of person does. An easy band aid is OM (1, 2, 3....). I couldn't agree more with Squiffle on Keylogger, VAR, and switching cell plans. DO IT.

As far as biking...together...apart....reconnecting...It is my opinion that you shouldn't even be thinking there yet. A professional MC should probably help you with those boundaries and tasks. You'll get 700 opinions on this board, and none of us have ever met ya.

Are you seeing TRUE remorse?

Are you seeing TRUE remorse?

Not to the extent that I would have wanted or expected.

Feb,

I almost think the TRUE remorse may come with time. Like, they have to defog, get over their loss, see what they've done, feel it, then process it.

Some of them are slower than others.

She's still early in the game.

That's why I'd really watch her before you two spend a weekend at a B and B....

Please consider the sad truth that many WS never experience true remorse at all. Many SIers are here because of a previous rug sweep. If it doesn't hurt your WW to hurt you? If she lacks empathy and stays me-centric and selfish? You're looking at more DDays.

That is why we are encouraging you so hard to draw your boundaries and see shat she does of her own initiative. Don't fill in blanks.

As much as M police sucks? If you want R? You need to do this now. I hope you can take her at her word and there is nothing to find. But sadly, I doubt it.

It would hurt me terribly that she only wants to connect since the OMs threw her under the bus. Where was that offer after your DDay?

Also -- what's the secret 5k for? Has she confessed to that? Does she know you know???

[This message edited by squiffle at 9:26 AM, April 7th (Thursday)]

Feb, from what I'm reading it feels like your WW is moving in the direction of R.

In the early days after dday, the individual initial decisions of the WS and BS to remain together doesn't have to have anything to do with love.

For instance, dday was a deal breaker for me so my initial reason to give R a chance was for the sake of my children and NOT because I wanted to be with him. My WH's response was that he'd take anything he could get and work from there.

A WS's initial decision to stay might be fear of breaking up the family. It might be fear of what people would think of them, fear of the unknown, guilt...

It doesn't matter what her reasons for wanting to fix the M are at this point, all that matters is that she's found an anchor and right now any anchor will do.

But, and this probably goes with out saying, even though the anchor doesn't matter at this point, being anchored within firm boundaries does matter.

When you two start to R you have to prioritize time this way:

1) Feb and Mrs. Feb.

2) FAMILY

3) .

4) .

5) ME

I agree with Bigger that when you start to R, Feb&mrsFeb are at the very top of the list. The marriage should always come first because if it doesn't then there is no marriage. I don't quite agree that "me" comes last though.

Even though I agree that the spouses are together in the number one spot when they begin to R and from that point on, there's a long road to travel between dday and R.

The road you must travel is very narrow and can only be travelled in a single file line.That means there's no room for Feb&MrsFeb to sit next to each other when they travel it.

The road between dday and R is the road of personal recovery. Your only focus is fixing yourself. Her only focus is fixing herself. You can do this because you both bought yourself some time with your anchors.

Personal recovery comes before reconciliation. It has to because R'ing a healthy M requires two healthy people. Your WW can't work on R no matter what she says. The best she's able to do at this point is rugsweep. This goes the same for the BS.

JMHO, of course.

Feb.....

I was in your shoes in Late Nov.....

Pack a bag....walk up to her....and say this.

"I am (edit)ing DONE....there issomeone out there that will love me unconditionally...and I will not waste my life being second place to anyone"

It is scary....because I did not want to leave....but it worked....the thought of life without me or me with another woman snapped her ass out of it....it was ugly when that happened....she fell apart totally

I know this has been posted before, and you have probably read a thousand times on here....BOTH of you go get tested for STD'S.

It is a horrible experience for anyone. It should be a huge wake up embarrassing moment for her. Also make sure you get to see the actual copy of her test's. For your own safety. And when she tells you they used a condom, tell her it doesn't freaking matter. Std's can still be passed with the use of a condom.

I would give her a deadline (like yesterday) for the phone call to the IC, and the doctor. She needs to start showing some initiative. If she doesn't do it by say end of day, take Running In Place's advice.

Feb,

I definitely have to agree with DeadMumWalking, squiffle, and INeedMoreCoffee--

She may very well be defogging, but she is absolutely trying to minimize.

The reluctancy is HUGE. Because that is what remorse is about. You and she both know that there is a lot of inappropriate info in her e-mails and texts. While these would be disgusting and embarrassing to a remorseful spouse, they wouldn't hesitate to give this information over...because they want to try and restore trust in a marriage that they have destroyed.

You HAVE to police the marriage at this point. It is in our BS handbook(yes, we have one too ). It is simply negligent of us not to do so--if we are still trying to save our marriage. She hasn't used good judgement for some time now, so common sense would say that she still isn't using the best rationale while she is defogging.

Is it emotionally draining? Damn straight. But how many times have we not been vigilant during this time only to be bit in the ass again?

Feb,

You don‘t have to justify your lifestyle to us.

What I posted was more in line with something to get you thinking.

Be clear on one thing: If you cycled for 25 hours out of a 24 hour day then that would never justify her affair. If she cycled 25/24 that would never justify an affair. The cycling did not create the affair.

We can argue for hours on the priorities and the importance of ME, US and FAMILY time. Is US family also? Is ME me alone? Is FAMILY also US? We can go on all day on that. To date I haven’t read anything from you that make me think “stupid”. OK – maybe “slow” but definitely not “stupid” . I think you are perfectly capable of keeping a healthy balance from now on.

But I still think you needed a wake-up call. Sometimes we are too close to the trees to notice the forest.

Feb – Great she accepts accountability. However have you given her your list of conditions?

Bike time?: I'm impressed. I've been wanting to do something like that for myself for years (used to love backpacking) and can't seem to find the time. I both admire and envy you for being able to make that time for yourself.

Time together?: My wife and I set aside a "date night" every week. We make it happen no matter what - for the health of our marriage. Even if it is just a walk around the neighborhood. Perhaps this is a good first step for you two - rather than a "weekend away." Make it a priority.

R or not R?: I think perhaps some people here are being a bit hard on your W right now. Yes, she shows signs of still being selfish, but it sounds like she's trying at least. She's not going to change overnight. There's nothing wrong with pointing out when she says something self centered - that's how she will become aware of it. Would I be wary, yes. However, I would provide positive reinforcement and firm, but kind reminders.

She hasn't had the benefit of all the examples and advice you've gotten here. She may truly want to move in the right direction but does not know how yet. IC will certainly help.

That was our first and only vacation without kids in 10 years, not a pattern.

My misunderstanding. I don't remember you saying before that it was the only time you went on a long trip in 10 years. I read about all the other trips, plus the trip to France (when you left your children with your relative as a "gift"), and it sounded like the both of you are regularly leaving for long trips, whether alone or together.

As I said, I woke up at 4:30 in the morning to avoid putting my "hobby" before my family.

If this is how you have always kept up your hobby after your children were born, then biking hasn't taken over. I got the impression reading your posts that you used to spend as much time away from the family riding your bike as your wife does now, but later on you changed. Hopefully Mrs. Feb will learn from this, follow your lead, and pursue her own hobby in a more balanced way.

Just my 2 cents. Feb and Mrs. Feb should be each others #1 priority, always.

Mr Feb: We forgot that. I would put my kids first and not get a babysitter to ride with her, thinking it was wrong.

You said previously that you took care of the children while WW poured herself into biking. It is not wrong for you to put your children first, when the other spouse is neglecting them. Had you both gone riding as much as Mrs. Feb was riding, a stranger would have been spending more time with your children than you were.

Someone needs to spend time with them. Going on a ride here and there with your W while leaving the children with a babysitter is not bad...but to do it on a regular basis, so you both can train would be going overboard, unless you both do it together at 4:30 a.m. I doubt Mrs. Feb will ever be in that state of mind....

But then I remember that they almost always LOVE having a babysitter the rare times we get one, so why would I do that? More couple time if we try to R.

They loved having a babysitter because it was rare. They won't think it is so exciting if it happens all the time.

You don't need to give up any more of your "ME" time...you gave it up already. Maybe you could start getting your "ME" time again at 4:30 a.m. until Mrs. Feb decides to join you, or you both agree on something which doesn't take away from family time.

Your family needs to slow down. Take time for your M and your children, and do not pick up any more activities for yourselves or the children. Reduce activities as a whole and don't be tempted to pick them up again, or replace them with new ones. Be selective about what your family does, and guard everyone's time. So many families don't guard their time, or guard their children's time. They teach their children to be busyholics and don't allow them down time to let the creative juices flow.

You're a decent man, Mr. Feb. You've been doing a great job, and have a thinking mind and generous heart. You'll get through this a better, more balanced man. I hope Mrs. Feb can get her act together, and take that journey with you.

Another little t/j...

I am a grandmother and getting 10 days with my grandkids would be a GREAT gift.....

Just sayin'.....

Checking in on you Mr. Feb. It seems you are doing great.

I hope Mrs. Feb. continues to come around. It sounds like she is taking some positive baby steps...maybe not as quickly as you (and we SI'ers!:) would like...but baby steps in a positive direction all the same.

Hugs and Hugs

Feb are you back from your business trip? Let us know how your doing....