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I cannot believe that a group from her church came to try to bully you into R. That is out of line.

Did your WW "confess her sins" to this group and give them all of the details of her A before she enlisted them to pressure you? I'm guessing no.

AHguy, you would not be out of line to let your WW know very clearly that you did not appreciate her attempt to manipulate you (that is what it was) and if she wants to have any hope of R, she should not do anything like this again. She didn't put YOU first in this situation, it was a very selfish move on her part.

the "gift" from OBS may be some more evidence of the A, i.e. a video that the two WS's made together. Your WW may not even know it exists, he could have done it without her knowledge. You may want to ask her what it is before she gives it to you, as you may not actually want it. Be prepared.

Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. You seem to be doing that pretty well with WW, but you would have been completely reasonable to tell that group to take a walk and you weren't interested.

Your church is not you nor is it your marriage.

Do what YOU want and think is attainable.

This is an interesting thread. As a newcomer to the forum I am starting to see certain patterns in thinking in some of the members here.

So lets start with the fact that I have been messaged by two people here who seem to think that I am either the wife of AH (hilarious, I know) or the preacher. This because, they cannot understand that perhaps his wife might just be truly remorseful or that maybe AH could benefit from giving her a second chance. Fair enough. I myself am not a stranger to infidelity (not just my own story but around me as well) and do know that sometimes it helps to really know what it is that you want and what the truth might really be.

In any case, the good news is that there is one other who has also messaged me who does believe that maybe, just maybe, the wife of the AH deserves a second chance.

So I will ask AHGuy, I take it that you know your wife really well and maybe even know the preacher reasonably well. What say you? Do you think I am one of them? If not, you can put some of the folks minds here at rest. They seem to think my cover is "blown" and that I joined this forum to rescue your marriage! I hate that this thread is becoming about me and providing entertainment to some (I know that the COVID lockdown can be boring).

As time will tell, my spelling will probably indicate that I am from the UK for one. Also in time, you will find that I am most certainly a man complete with very slight misogynistic tendencies (which I am working on).

So let this be the end of this and lets get back to helping AHGuy if we can.

they cannot understand that perhaps his wife might just be truly remorseful

She's given no one any reason to repose any confidence at all in this statement and has done just the opposite. We are simply relying on empirical evidence, such as HER OWN WORDS.

They do not indicate remorse. They indicate all the usual patterns of a wayward spouse who regrets getting caught.

To your point, actually everyone deserves a second chance. I'm not in the "all waywards are sociopaths" camp. I believe in repentance and redemption.

However true repentance is 'metanoia" - meaning a wholesale changing or "turning" of the mind and heart, through and through. A complete transformation. Bromides about Jesus taking the wheel are not representative of deep abiding Christian discipleship or metanoia.

As far as whether you're the wife or pastor, I doubt it. I never bought into that. For one thing you write too well. His wife writes like an 8 year old.

P.S. People here have good reasons for their suspicions. It is not paranoia. The patterns of wayward spouses repeat over and over to a nauseating degree (for example, the warnings about WW's fomenting false DV charges - happens ALL THE TIME). So it's not "hilarious" - it's just real. Maybe you could get real too.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:17 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

AH, there is ONE mediator in your relationship to God. Only ONE. And you know who HE is.

Not the pastor, not the well meaning but deluded elderly folks who have NO IDEA about what is going on.

This is YOUR life, YOUR health, YOUR future, YOUR sanity.

I hope my warnings about the church community girded, armed and prepared you. I hope you read the Dalrock "So Your Christian Wife Cheated on You" posts. If not, please read them.

You're in the fight of your life, and yes there is spiritual warfare involved. These people do not speak for God. They are deluded fellow fallen beings. Do not be swayed by them.

And one more time for this group that showed up and ambushed you on your wife's behalf: They are confused and conflating forgiveness with staying in a broken marriage. They are NOT the same thing.

You can forgive and reconcile. You can forgive and divorce. The choice is yours and no one is here to try to decide that for you. But forgiveness does not equate to reconciliation. Forgiveness is for you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:15 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

I cannot believe your WW is so selfish that she thinks she can BULLY you with church people. For me, that would be the last straw. To not consider what you have asked for,time and space, and force these people on you to make you feel guilty for not considering R?????!!!! That is RICH and she just continues to show you the real her. I am so angry for you that she would think that was in any way acceptable. So so self absorbed and selfish. She still values what SHE wants over your comfort. It's unreal.

Your story about her refusing to go to Canada and starting the affair really shows who she is also. What an awful and mean thing to do when someone plans and buys a vacation for you. It sounds like her tantrum back then was premeditated so she could have her affair. Almost anyone would feel terrible for being so unappreciative about a vacation!!!! How hurtful! I think she has been showing you who she really is all along but your love allowed you to overlook some really terrible and narcissistic behavior. Now that she might actually face a consequence, she's found Jesus. Sure.

You sound like you're getting stronger and maybe it is because youve 99.999% settled on a decision. Keep moving forward and ignore her attempts. Remember that she did not consider your feelings at all for years and years so try to stop caring about hers for now -take care of YOU.

Your story about her refusing to go to Canada and starting the affair really shows who she is also. What an awful and mean thing to do when someone plans and buys a vacation for you. It sounds like her tantrum back then was premeditated so she could have her affair. Almost anyone would feel terrible for being so unappreciative about a vacation!!!! How hurtful! I think she has been showing you who she really is all along but your love allowed you to overlook some really terrible and narcissistic behavior. Now that she might actually face a consequence, she's found Jesus. Sure.

agreed and I wondered the same thing and had the same reaction, AH. Also, this is a perfect example of why you should reject the "she's 100 percent responsible for the affair, but you're 50/50 responsible for the marriage" formulation we see so often here. It's just not accurate.

If a wife is behaving in this execrable, horrid way several years in advance of having an affair, then the weight of the "bad marriage" is on her, not the loyal hardworking spouse. Get it? So she's 100 percent responsible for betraying you AND probably somewhere in the 65-80 percent range responsible for the "bad marriage" that preceded it. I think this more often the case than not.

Think about it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:22 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

I have never been able to understand how some churchgoers, well meaning as they may be, seem to think that forgiveness of adultery and divorce are somehow automatically mutually exclusive; as if one cannot occur concurrently with the other.

AH you can completely forgive your WW of her sins against you, and still divorce her. Why? Because she has shown through her actions that, at least for the foreseeable future, she is not able to exist in a monogamous relationship. She is not and probably never will be a good candidate to be yours or anyone else's wife because she has displayed a complete disrespect for marriage and fidelity to a partner.

If I find out that an employee has embezzled thousands of dollars from me, I can forgive that person while still firing them from the job. What if they reimburse me for the stolen money? Great. That is a plus, and a sign that they may be truly repentant. They may also have to serve some jail time.

Does it mean I should hire them back as my accounts manager just because they apologized and paid me back and spent some time in jail? Heck to the no. Why? Because they have proven they are not trustworthy. Simple as that.

Would you hire a "reformed" child molester to work at a daycare? No! Of course not.

Your WW has done nothing to prove she should not be divorced. She has done nothing to make you feel like you could trust her, and everything to prove to you that she is not going to stop manipulating you and pressuring you into rugsweeping what she did. Calling the church in to intervene was a shit move on her part....as underhanded as it gets.

It sounds like her tantrum back then was premeditated so she could have her affair.

This is quite likely. She was ready to go to the next level and was looking for an excuse to go forward.

So AH, she didn’t turn the EA into an PA because of what you did (they never do), she was looking for a “reason” to do so.

Had you gone with her on the original planned trip, she would have started the PA because you didn’t pick the right hotel, or you didn’t give her enough attention during the trip, or, or, or...

See how it works?

In any case, the good news is that there is one other who has also messaged me who does believe that maybe, just maybe, the wife of the AH deserves a second chance.

No WS deserves a second chance. But they can be gifted a second chance by the BS if they so choose to do so. Is she remorseful? WSs here will tell you it took them months or years to truly become the remorseful spouse they needed to be. So it is too soon to say that AH's wife to be remorseful. There are some women and men that have gone through this and are truly remorseful. AH's wife is not there yet. She is in a panic mode. She sees everything falling apart and is desperate to save it.

You should send her a text like this:

Wife, calling the pastor and a bunch of church members over to coerce and bully me into forgiving you and reconciling with you was manipulative and underhanded; and it further proves to me that you are not truly repentant or remorseful for the pain you have inflicted on me and the destruction you have inflicted on our family.

Instead of persuading me to rug-sweep your disgusting affair and to give you another chance, that stunt has produced the opposite effect.

And AH have your pastor explain this: how does he justify talking this extremely private matter to other parishioners without your express permission?

Does he not understand that this kind of serious situation calls for the utmost in discretion and privacy? He should have never gone to common church members without having your approval first. And you can be sure that whatever confession she made to the pastor and to the church-members was as skewed in her favor as she could make it. She made sure she had the upper hand in that situation, and did everything she could to knock you back on the ropes and keep you off balance. So now you have to rope-a-dope and take the blows and hope you can fight your way out of the corner.

Agree with WilliamM, nobody "deserves" a second chance. AH can decide if he wants to give that to his WW but to say she "deserves" it is a step too far. Since these are church-going people in what sounds like a Protestant denomination I am sure the vows included something along the lines of

"... forsaking all others for as long as you both shall live"

And she broke them. The ceremony didn't say that she has one do-over.

"So far your actions, most notably surprising me with the pastor and churchgoers, has been done strictly for YOUR benefit and not mine. You so desperately want YOUR pain to go away, yet you can't put MY pain (which you caused) before your own."

I would sue that pastor for breaking confidentiality. At the very least he should be reported to the conference overseeing your church.

...when i got home last night a bunch of people from our church were there to talk to me. an elderly couple and 3 other women.

I bet this was orchestrated by the WW not the pastor. I am not as offended by this as some seem. I am not moved by it either, but not offended. This move, to me, is a desperate move of her reaching out to others to help her save her marriage. It is similar to a BS reaching out to family and friends, with hopes that those people can talk to the WS for a positive result. This is the flip side of that, I think anyway.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 12:19 PM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

I guess I missed it. I thought the pastor was there. I apologize for the oversite.

Dear ((( AH )))

Please read Biggers posts to you, and others, he has been a tremendous asset to me, others and SI, his post to YOU speaks volumes in a few paragraphs. He has years of wisdom on SI, his posts softened my heart, yes at first I read his posts and thought he was a cheater apologist, but I was so angry.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/text.profile.asp?UserID8354&v1

You have done things right so far, no pick me dance, got some space to think, called her out to herself and family. What you have done shows integrity and strength. Listening to a Godly couple that went through a similar situation was gaining wisdom.

Your wife has done many things right as well. She clearly regrets and seems to be working on remorse. She seems to be willing to seek atonement. Her sister has called out her "acting like her father". She is seeking counselors from what appears to be a good source for a start. I think she needs other help beyond the church.

She has written this and she has asked for you to tell her what you need.

Things I did so far to make myself ready:

1- I ‘m giving my life back to my saver Jesus Christ.

2- I ended the affair.

3- I’m actively looking for not just a new job but a new carrier

4- I’m in counseling

5- I’m willing to give you access to my phone, computer, tablet, emails and everything you might want.

6- I’m letting know where I’m everytime I leave our house and willing to let you GPS my car if you want to. And

7- Most importantly, my to do sheet is available for you to add anything you think necessary.

I’m glad you’re opening up to me, reading your email was painful at times but at the end it’s giving me a glimpse of hope. Please know That I’m here for you should you need me, Again I know you don’t believe anything I say or write but I’m going to say it anyway, I LOVE YOU.

If any WW has the ability to be the wife and person God intended for her to be, it might be your wife. First she must stop ALL blameshifting she owns this A it never can be used in anyway to somehow "help the marriage" read Bigger again.

Please do not read this as me believing you should R, just that it is possible, albeit very hard. I do think "with God all things are possible".

No matter D or R this is much like the storm bearing down on you, some storms can be cleaned up, some you just move and start over. Many storms take years to rebuild from and pieces of the past are lost forever. Sometimes the rebuilding makes for a better future. The only thing that is sure is the storm will make things different.

I am deeply saddened that she has allowed this storm into your lives, she has taken beautiful things away, she has scattered them to the wind, she will now be the one to pick up so much and put them in a dumpster out front. So much to grieve. So much to replace, is she capable of the years of work? Can she make it better? certainly it will not be the same.

Respectfully,

Orgain2003

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 1:01 PM, August 4th, 2020 (Tuesday)]

No need to apologize at all. The pastor could be guilty. He could have helped the WW get the people there. It is just me that thinks the wife set this up.

I don’t think I will ever understand the depth of selfishness and entitlement of cheaters!!!

Your wife is so wrapped up in her self preservation that she will do anything, like try to manipulate you by the use of the church and elderly People!!! Does she have ANY shame????? Of course not!!!

Next time some one preaches forgiveness, instruct them to drop there wife off at the closest hotel. Tell them that you plan on getting into the issue of infidelity all weekend long, and that you will drive her home on Monday morning. Then, they can show you post-cheating forgiveness in action!!

Sorry, but I think you need to take the holding filing until after September off the table. get her to sign the separation agreement, then talk to your daughter telling her that you can’t take it any longer!!!!

Who the hell planted the idea in her head that ambushing you like this was a good idea?!?!?