SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I feel like I need to do all these things I am suggesting because nothing do far has worked. I tell her I want her to stop contact or move out but she wont. Without threats of consequences that will force to act, what can I do?

You are all right, I am in denial and I am still clinging on to the hope of some kind of way to save this. I simply cannot face the alternative.

You are right, all I can really do is move forward with the divorce and let that take its course so I can be free of this situation. That is probably what I should do but that does not feel like I am in control because it is not going to get me to the outcome that I really want. Which is snapping her the hell out of this fog she is in and forcing her to fight to save her family.

NobleCause, your post really shook me. That does sound like me, everything I have thought and experienced the past few weeks. I am trying to do what is right for the kids. They are my driving force in all this. You said "you loved them enough to put them first", that's what I feel like I am doing by fighting with everything I have got to keep our family together. I feel like I need to at least try.

Now I don't know what I will do. We have a couples counseling session tomorrow, for what that is worth. I guess I will see what comes from that.

I am just looking for that reset switch that will take me back a month when things were not great but we still had a chance. I just don't know how I can ever let go of that hope.

(((ScaredDad))) You are getting great advice from everyone here.

one thing they were talking about was how it would be easier if I was seeing someone else also, and throwing out names of women that might make sense for me.

Whaaat? They're trying to fix you up with someone! I am sorry that you're in this horrible sitch, but we've all been there in some form. It is clear from your posts that she does not want to R. She has already CHECKED OUT of the M by having an A. I know how badly you want her to 'wake-up', but filing for D may be your only hope, and even that's a vague 'maybe'.

DETACH. 180. These are for your help. If she's determined to leave and does, it will make it a bit easier on your end. (Believe me, I KNOW how agonizing the pain you are in is, and how difficult your sitch is currently, but sometimes there is really nothing you can do except save yourself.)

Peace and strength to you.

(((ScaredDad)))

I remember , when I was where you are now, thinking:

“ Who is this alien who has inhabited WH’s body? It looks like WH, but it does not act like WH. And it’s bizarre behavior was destroying our world.”

It was unreality. I couldn’t believe it was happening.

In the blink of an eye, WH had become a stranger.

I know, you want, more than anything, your old life back. But you can never get it back, and you have to grieve that loss.

(((sending you strength)))

You do have a chance of your WW coming out of the fog, and , after a lot of hard work & time, the two of you having a stronger, more intimate marriage, with better communication, hopefully both of you getting your needs met, and keeping the family together.

I will pray that this happens for you SD.

But, the only chance for that to happen is if you respond to her current behavior ( she is DEEP in the fog) by asserting clear boundaries (ex: I will not live under the same roof with you if you are still in contact with OM). You can not control her. You can only respond to her actions. Actions have consequences.

If she does not come out of the fog, then you do not want to be with her.

So, your only choice is to state your very clear boundaries.

SD--

We all feel your pain, bro. But, as it was just said, she has CHECKED OUT of the marriage. She probably checked out way before the affair, you just didn't know it. Everyone here, or close to everyone, most likely thought just what you are thinking, that she will 'snap' out of it, wake up. But as you can tell from the postings, she didn't get this way overnight, and the WS doesn't get it together overnight. Sometimes, many times, they don't get it together for the rest of their lives. Not your problem. She blew up the marriage, period. Its a lose-lose deal, and that sucks, but now you have to find some little piece that can be a win. You make those kids of yours an anchor, and start taking care of them, and you. If that means packing up her crap and taking it to one of her friends houses, so be it.

The LAST thing you want to do is see another woman; in your state (and believe me, I've been there)no emotionally healthy woman would stay with you for 15 minutes. Its your kids now bro!

And finally, would you even be friends with someone who has acted like your WS? Man I would hope not.

People keep talking about asserting clear boundaries and consequences but this is how the conversation goes:

Me: "I want you to cut off contact with him or move out of our house"

Her: "I love him, I cant stop talking to him and I am not going to leave the house"

What comes after that?

There is no way I am leaving. I cant force her to leave and I cant stop her texting and calling him.

I am asserting boundaries but with no way to make her respect them. The only consequence is to file for divorce which is what she ultimately wants anyway.

OK, your family is leaving today right?

Are you planning to tell them about what is going on?

I would if it will help you.

You told WW that you would out her if she did not stop contact. Exposure is one of your strongest tools.

I sent you a Private Message re: this.

If WW will not move out of the house, today she moves upstairs into a separate room.

From now on, you do the 180. Only discuss kids & finances.

This has been discussed previously on this thread.

Good luck SD.

To answer your question if she says no she won't stop, and she won't leave? Tell her she absolutely positively can't sleep in your marital bed another minute. Kick her out of the bedroom. If she refuses to leave, then I guess you need to sleep in the guest room, or wherever. Make it clear that you are not going to tolerate being disrespected. You had told her the consequence of not stopping was being outed. Time to follow through. For every time you waiver on your consequence she gets more firmly entrenched in the thought process that her behavior is acceptable.

No matter what happens after you lay down the demand of her stopping all contact with OM, you need to go 180, and stick to it. You need to gain some perspective, and strength. You also need to start protecting yourself and your kids. By all means document every time she leaves the home to be w/OM. Document the amount of $$ she may be spending on her A. Even in a no fault state when you have this info it helps you.

((((and strength))))

I've been following your posts with curiosity, as I feel like I am in a similar place with my WW. I am also going back and forth between a state of "I need to do something" and "I want my old wife back". One minute I feel confident and the next like a little kid who can't get out of his own way.

Yesterday, for the first time in the 3 weeks since d-day, I was able to set a firm boundary. My WW has been away in CT with her mother. She called yesterday to figure out how she was going to get home. She asked if I could drive an extra 1.5 hours to pick her up. I told her I wouldn't as I wanted to be her husband and not just her errand boy. Until (if ever) I know that she is recommitting to working on our marriage, then I won't do the extra stuff. I also told her to call her boyfriend to pick her up. Afterwards I felt like crap about it. Still do. But I am doing my best to regain some self-integrity, while still heavily in denial about things changing.

I'm not sure what to advise in your situation as I am not sure what to advise in mine. I guess, as I tried yesterday, start small. What needs of hers have you been meeting, that you just no longer will meet unless she recommits to your family?

That point folks have been making in this thread, "you can't make her do anything", is something I have been thinking about this morning. You can't forcibly kick her out (in fact be REALLY careful about any sort of physical contact out of anger. My WW has worked as a family lawyer and too many men she has dealt with have ended up arrested in these sorts of situations). Start with the small things.

Hang in there.

K

Thanks kg201, sounds like out thinking is alike.

Just got back from our couples session. Basically a disaster. I am not a fan of the MC. She has taken everything my wife has said (she never felt a connection with me, she is in love with OM, she needs this to be happy, it is not clouding her judgement, we will be happier apart etc.) and believed every word. Every time I suggested that isn't it possible that this new and exciting relationship is clouding her judgement? Nope because she says it is not and she says this is what she wants.

The last straw when came when my wife complained about me snooping on phone records to see when she is talking to him. MC says "Well, that's not acceptable". I stared at her for a god 30 seconds before saying: "I haven't heard you once say anything about how it is unacceptable for a woman to have a affair behind her husbands back". That got me the "there-there, I know it hurts" smile. Jesus.

So basically my wife knows what she wants, I cant control her and we need to work on our relationship to have the best possible separation.

And at this point maybe I am ready to go that route. Although I do firmly believe she is in a fog with this, nothing I say will change that. And nothing I do will stop her pursuing the relationship with him and the separation from me.

I don't even feel like I have anymore fight in me. I don't think I will achieve anything by exposing her, or setting boundaries or any of that stuff because it is not going to stop her from doing what she wants.

I could proceed full tilt with the divorce and getting the house sold so we cna be done but I don't want to hurt the kids with that sudden separation.

I'm not a lawyer, or in the legal field but if she's the one cheating you must have rights/options etc. As many of the other posters have said, please see a lawyer. You don't deserve this.

Do NOT go back to MC. That doesn't make D'ing easier, especially with that therapist. All it's doing is tearing you down, and making you weaker.

What will make D go smoothly is that you get what you deserve. If you want more than equal custody, then you should push for it, and document all her self serving crazy ass behaviors.

It's time for you to get strong, if not for you then for your kids. Do NOT allow her to take you to the cleaners, DO NOT allow her to keep manipulating you into being quiet, and accepting her spending her evenings with OM, and coming home where it's all sweet and cozy. NO WAY. NO MORE.

Pull on your shit kickers. GO see another D attorney. Google D attornies that specialize in Dad's rights for your area, and go.

Kick her out of your bedroom, seriously. When she leaves, go in there, and remove everything that is hers and put is in another room of the house, if she isn't leaving, then make it unpleasant for her.

When you cook for you and the kids, don't set a spot for her, you don't know if she will be there or not. Do NOT do her laundry.

Only communicate with her about the kids and money.

She wants a D, treat it like a business transaction. Keep emotions out of it as much as possible.

Be stong in front of her. Don't let her see your hurt.

You can't save a marriage when only one partner wants to. She will however be content to fencesit/cakeeat as long as you allow it. So knock the fence down, and throw out the cake.

Be there for you and be there for your kids.

Yea, I saw a lawyer. The infidelity really does not have much bearing on the divorce in my "no fault" state.

I think our next step is to start the process of separating within the home at least. Separate sleeping arrangements and we can start separating finances and talking about the terms of what things will look like when we do sell the house and move apart.

I know its going to be difficult to live in this half state where I am living with so much of what I have enjoyed of my old life but knowing that it is not what my future will be, but maybe this gradual approach will be best for the kids and that is the most important thing right now.

tushnurse, there is a part of me that wants to take that approach (to give me some control, which is what this thread was about in the first place).

But there is another part of me that knows that tat is not really going to get me anywhere. Its going to further sour the relationship with the mother of my kids and tat will not b a good environment for them to be around.

It would make me feel better in the short term but maybe I need to be working on accepting this and learning how not to let it bother me.

I guess what I am saying is that your are right, that hardline approach would make me feel better. But I would like to get to a place where it wouldn't so I don't feel the need to do that.

Why can't you change the locks and dump her shit on the curb? That's what she needs. The whole neighborhood to know you're kicking her out. You can't nice with her. Show her that you're *literally* kicking her to the curb.

You can do this. Hugs to you.

Gently, you're kind of a control freak, aren't you? I suspect you're really going to have a hard time with this because you're realizing, possibly for the first time, that you have NO control over another adult human being, that you can not control this outcome, that you're stuck on this train and you're going to have to get off it at whatever destination it takes you to. You're not in the driver's seat, and I suspect you're realizing you never were.

This is a hard shock to a lot of us, to find out that the life we thought we were living wasn't our life at all. Also, a lot of us get stuck in the bargaining phase of grief, which is where you are right now. You're still trying to find a way to make things work, still trying to find the right combination of words or actions, still trying to set up scenarios so that you can manage the outcome to be the one you desire.

It's incredibly humbling to realize that you can't do a thing to stop the train wreck. It's terrifying to realize that you and your children are ON the train which is wrecking, and you can't do a thing about it.

You have got to change your thinking, ScaredDad. You need to face your reality and start dealing with it, rather than try to make your reality something it's not. Your wife is lost to you. Accept it. You lost her long ago. You lost your marriage long ago. Your children are going to be devastated, just like mine have been, just like everyone else's kids here have been. You & yours aren't going to be able to escape from this nightmare unscathed. It's going to happen. It is already happening. The only control you have left is managing yourself and TRYING to guide you & your kids to a healthy outcome without Mommy.

You can only control yourself. That's the only control you've ever had. You cannot control your wife. You cannot even control what happens to your children. In life there is no control.

I'm sorry, man.

Hi ScaredDad,

This is all tough stuff, and an unrepentant WS is just awful because there is very little you can do while they get to bad-mouth you and eat cake.

...and talking about the terms of what things will look like when we do sell the house and move apart.

No need to talk about it, just head forward with it. It will be what it is. The alternative is you support a house and kids while WW continues to go off and meet with OM when she wants. You should figure out what it will look like for you and the kids, and plan and adapt for that. Never mind giving her advice or warning her of things to come; your advice will not be listened to, and will be taken as mean-spirited.

What did attorney say about house payments? Mine told me to stop paying the mortgage when I began D proceedings. Did attorney advise on what monies you can secure and what you must leave your WW access to?

It is time to stop being nice and polite to your WW. This does not mean you should be intentionally mean towards her, but start treating her as a stranger to help you to detach. Discuss only on childcare and critical financial issues. The 180 can really be your friend.

When you get the chance, pop in to say Hi in the Betrayed Men thread in the I Can Relate forum.

--Ats

ETA: we cross-posted Dad

...I am going to focus on creating the best possible separation we can come up with and hopefully a good future for all of us.

Focus on taking care of you and your kids.(period) There is no longer any we or us with your WW. Do not workl with your WW on the D, work with your attorney.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:55 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]

Nature_Girl, I agree and I think I am starting to accept that.

I am going to try and put aside my ego and accept that if she sees him, she sees him but I cant go control it.

Instead I am going to focus on creating the best possible separation we can come up with and hopefully a good future for all of us.

ScaredDad,

Its going to further sour the relationship with the mother of my kids and that will not be a good environment for them to be around.

Your WW is the one who has created this environment, not you. You have done nothing wrong.

You can't "nice" her back. It is impossible to "nice" back a WS who is deep in the fog. As long as you will put up with her cake eating, that's how long as she will continue doing it. How long are you willing to live like this?

For me (and our 4 kids), it went on for almost half a year. I think that's more damaging to the kids than your packing up her stuff in hefty bags & putting them on the front stoop, & changing the locks.

I didn't know about this site at that time. I wish I had been tough from the 1st moment---I was afraid of making WH angry.

Focus on taking care of you and your kids.(period) There is no longer any we or us with your WW. Do not work with your WW on the D, work with your attorney.

^^^^^^^THIS!

...and talking about the terms of what things will look like when we do sell the house and move apart.

There is really NOTHING to discuss with her anymore.

Let your attorneys discuss it.

Sacred Dad...

The only power you have is the power to choose if you want to play her games or not.

Your only positive choice is to not participate and she can't compel you to.

Serve her with divorce papers and walk away. Nothing short of that will get her attention. Trust me. If you don't there is only pain in your future and the eventual realization that we are all right.

Good luck.