SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My scorn for the other woman has nothing to do with her knowingly having an affair with my husband whom she KNEW was married. That is his cross to bear - HE made a commitment to me NOT her. She could've been anybody. My scorn for the other woman comes from what she has done in the last 11 months since I found out. She has REPEATEDLY made contact with me in some form be it email, FB, Pinterest, calling my work, calling my home - acting as if SHE were the injured party! I hate her!

HELLO?! Your husband was looking to have an affair, or else he wouldn't have been in one!

Is no one else sick of the scorn,that the OW gets, while the WH get's the "gift of reconciliation".

and

"Oh she was 20yrs younger, thinner, better vocabulary, and he succumbed... after all

I did gain a pound after seven children and didn't meet his every sensual desire

and he was alone, drinking, with the "wrong" friends...

I can FORGIVE WH... (After I put him through hell for several yrs, as "proof that he does, in fact, love ONLY me). But the OW was just a HO. No redemption for that Bitch. You lured my poor defenseless husband to cheat on me! Why that's emotional rape! She should rot in prison!

Again. WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER

OK, maybe you are not angry, you just have a lousy attitude towards any BS who isn't reacting to the A exactly like you are.

I wonder if the OP wasn't your niece if you might be able to bring yourself to hate her, and get some relief. But hating your niece would probably mess up some otherwise nice family dynamics, right?

People on SI are all at different stages. Hating OW is a stage in some people's healing process.

Many BSes feel very insecure right after DDay, looking for reasons to blame themselves for the A. Transferring the blame to their WS and the OP is healthy, because that is exactly where the blame lies.

You have been told by many BSes who have responded to your thread that they lay the blame squarely on their WSes shoulders, not all on the OP.

Many OPs act like crazy people before and after the A. In my case, the OP was a serial cheater, looking for her next target. Yes, she was 15 years younger but NOT SMARTER, and although she is pretty, I am also pretty and in great shape for my OLD age!

My H was not a serial cheater. OW hit on M men who under normal conditions were devoted to their wives and children. She used the same tactic: damsel in distress.

Yes, my H chose to listen to her sob story, and when she complimented him for being so nice, something clicked inside his head, and he jumped off the side of the cliff with her!

My H has learned his lesson: no matter how badly you feel about yourself, don't look to OP for affirmation, look inside yourself and talk with your W!

edited b/c I hit submit before I was finished with the post.

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 5:53 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

When I first asked the question, Safeguard, I said you seemed upset. Didn't say angry.

As HBH? has pointed out you have made some angry statements. When the post is written in that way, yeah, it does come off as angry and bitter. imo

questions the Status Quo, does not make them an angry and accusatory.

I have a problem with what you perceive as the Status Quo here at SI.

"The other women made him do it", mentality seems rampant

This is what I have a problem with other than the way you delivered and defended your opinion. This isn't the rampant mentality here. Yes, some BS's may feel that way, it isn't rampant, though. If it was, we wouldn't have a Reconciliation forum we would have a Rugsweeping forum.

eta: Your post on the thread in JFO (which seems to have triggered you to start a thread in General) seemed angry, unkind, less than compassionate, not empathetic at all. Sheesh! If this isn't you angry, I would hate to see what you are like when you are.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 6:59 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

T/j LostAngry ~ I will concede the first point as you did put the word "appear" in the sentence.

The stats say somewhere between 30-60% of marriages will survive infidelity. All that means is they do not divorce. It does not mean there is true reconciliation. It means "not divorced".

Exactly. Do you have some super special insight and knowledge unbeknownst to anyone else into these 30%-60% marriages that have survived to know that the WS's haven't done the work needed?

Does Karma care who we judge and why, or simply that we judge while we look away from our sins? Are my sins "more" acceptable because they are not the atrocity of infidelity?

We are an infidelity site, not a sinning site. We are addressing the infidelity issues. There is nothing wrong with making judgments. Most everyone makes judgments everyday. That is how we decide what we do. And, yeah, as I said in your other thread I believe the AP mindfucked you. end t/j

Well said, Sister. I agree. And add, that had I not transferred some of that hatred and anger to her, I would not have been able to R with fwh. (Although, she was a predator and stalker of his for 24 years, we just didn't know it.) I still feel that way, but it does not give him a free pass by any means.

It's a process. It was mine, it may be another's, and it may not be someone else's.

We all do what we do to Survive Infidelity. A pretty shitty life lesson, but we do what we can to get through it. And every person deserves support and patience while here, no matter what others think or feel. Even when we are swinging a 2x4.

((Safeguard)), we all wish you as good an outcome as is possible in your unique situation, and you can count on all of us to help you through the difficult days, weeks and years.

[This message edited by fourever at 6:26 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

Safeguard phrased the topic in a way to throw the gauntlet down hard. Probably not the best choice if you want discussion and not heated debate.

It was in your face. But I do think that the underlying point is one that is valid to discuss.

HELLO?! Your husband was looking to have an affair, or else he wouldn't have been in one!

Is no one else sick of the scorn, that the OW gets, while the WH get's the "gift of reconciliation".

Not politically correct but this statement doesn't bother me because bottom line, its true- at least in my experience.

If you have been here long enough and never gotten a little annoyed by a poster quoting from the WS handbook or doing the doormat dance and acting like it is the first time anyone has ever heard those arguments... you are a better member than I am.

That is Why the staff gives us reminders when we need them. You can get a little jaded with some of the re-occurring thread cycles that focus on sometimes implausible, yet not 100%impossible circumstances.

An example- There are times when a newbie takes comfort in the fact that their wayward may have had sex but didn't climax. Is this really happening as much as it is clocked on the board? Probably not. I am sure that is has happened but, IMO, not in the numbers I have read here.

And when reading the umpteenth thread on it, my empathy meter, may be stuck on the jaded end. I try never to post when I am in that mode.

Because most people come here when they are in real pain and need us. I remember what that is like. I wonder how I made the old guard scratch their heads when I arrived. If I could receive that kind of wisdom and support, I can certainly try to give some of it back.

[This message edited by redrock at 7:02 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

We are an infidelity site, not a sinning site. We are addressing the infidelity issues. There is nothing wrong with making judgments. Most everyone makes judgments everyday

I think that is just what Safeguard is doing.

mindisgone that was in response to LostAngry, not Safeguard.

Yes I know Sister.

I was thinking as I read this whole thread, in my 50+ yrs on the planet, I have known a lot of cheaters, male and female.

Truth, some of the women were initiating but most of the men were the aggressors . 80-20 i'd say. IMHO.

Oh, okay, I understand what you mean, now, mindisgone.

some of the women were initiating but most of the men were the aggressors. 80-20 i'd say. IMHO.

But, now, I am going to have to disagree with you on this. I know it is your opinion, but I feel that the aggressors of affairs is an equal opportunity "sin", and feel it is probably more 50/50. imo

At the end of the day, the MOW was not the problem. My WS was the problem.

*BUT* having said that, I can still say I don't like MOW, I don't have one iota of sympathy for MOW, and I do hold her responsible for her end of the affair taking place.

MOW had a history of swinging, partner swapping, and having an open marriage. While amoungst other like minded people, these would nor should be an issue...the fact that she kept WS in the dark about it, portrayed herself as a vulnerable, honest, dedicated, emotionally abused spouse...and was the one to start the inappropriate relationship by giving out her cell phone number for "after hours business needs: (she was the account sales contact for WS's place of work at her business) and starting inappropriate texts with WS. She had a history of doing this with others, even though WS had no idea.

That, in my mind, makes her a predator. And even though at the end of the day, WS was the one to break our vows; I still think she has a HUGE part in helping him get into the fog by conditioning him and grooming him. I really do.

Maybe in the beginning days of the affair the bs blames the ap. Its a shock to the bs's system to know their spouse fucked them with the ultimate betrayal. Its easier to blame the ap. Maybe its survival mode. I know for about a yr I mostly blamed ap...and people here kept setting me straight.

Unless the ap truly did not know the ws was married (some ws are better liars than others), both are to be held responsible tho from different angles.

My ws is responsible because for the last 4 of 6 yrs idiot lied and manipulated out of every oraface.

Ap is responsible because she knew from day 1 he was married. I spoke to her last February and she sees nothing wrong in what she was doing. No shame.

I have and still refer to both wh and ap as sluts/ho's.

I am not in R (im in a sick self imposed limbo), but imo R is a long and bumpy road. Ws has to face what he/she has done. Ws also has to deal with the tornado of feelings from the bs. Thats not letting the ws off scott free.

What im about to say is not meant in anger. Im just being direct.

If you wish to absolve the ow or not hold her accountable, that is your preference. That is to be respected, tho some may not understand. Just please do not force your opinions on those of us who think differently. Repsect our opinion because we have validity in our belief.

@rerdrock,

Yes. I will cop to being "annoyed". I think that's fair to say. I did pose the question in a sarcastic tone, I suppose.

But I was puzzled... That more people weren't saying,

"Hey OW wasn't alone, in that parking lot, behaving like a sleaze bag."

Comment after comment...

constantly about the AP being *desperate* enough, to settle for crumbs from a married man. IMO AP wasn't settling for crumbs.

AP was getting the same thing the WS was getting. Exactly what they wanted. People do what they want. And yes,

People change, but not that much.

Not saying there aren't some AP's that are settling in the hope of more, but sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

I don't mean to t/j but I am interested in if anyone is of the belief that if a Wayward is groomed, and preyed upon.... Does that does mitigate that wayward's level of responsibility as opposed to a wayward that just straight up chooses to cheat?

I have always believed that indifference is the goal towards the OW. Is that compatible with continued hatred/anger? I am not saying its not, just wondering how it is managed? Do you compartmentalize or just accept those feelings and keep on truckin?

I know some people have already answered this. But I thought I would throw it out there.

Oh and red, also when you said,

Not politically correct but this statement doesn't bother me because bottom line, its true- at least in my experience.

That's exactly the way I roll. If there's truth in what I read it doesn't bother me, how it was expressed. (But firmly stated misconceptions bug me. )

red we cross posted. t/j away, I am interested too, in the answer to your questions...

I like what one poster said about the OW being just "Incidental"...

I do think grooming takes place. Predatory people are out there, and are very, very destructive & dangerous to others. and I do think the predator get's the lions share of the blame. (in those cases).

[This message edited by Safeguard at 7:53 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

I had a sincere concern for your wellbeing, Safeguard. However, with your continued dismissive attitude and

firmly stated misconceptions

I will now bow out with a quote:

WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER

Safeguard- We cross posted.

AP was getting the same thing the WS was getting. Exactly what they wanted. People do what they want. And yes,

People change, but not that much.

I think it is more complex than just a 'want'. But both parties made that final choice to cheat.

Someone made a point about from the BS standpoint the OW/OM is stuck in that snapshot of them as the party to the infidelity. You don't see them have remorse, make changes and strive to be a better person. I think that is interesting in how the anger is maintained.

That point of view in very interesting and I am not sure I have ever considered that idea.

I do believe in change. I don't think I could R if I didn't. It isn't easy and it takes time. It isn't a choice. It is a process and a long one.

Open yourself up to the idea that change is possible. Significant, life altering change can happen. I have seen it here and in my own marriage. But it doesn't happen in 6 months and it doesn't happen without falling down a whole hell of a lot.

People do what they want. And yes,

People change, but not that much.

And what exactly do you mean by that? I'm trying to be objective, but given your attitude through this whole thread and how you've managed to make other feels dismissed, I'm sincerely curious about your above statement.

Exactly. Do you have some super special insight and knowledge unbeknownst to anyone else into these 30%-60% marriages that have survived to know that the WS's haven't done the work needed?

It is mostly common sense. Am I to believe all couples who choose to stay together are doing so because it is made up of a remorseful, heavy lifting WS? I also have the posts of BS here, in blogs, and other infidelity forums that outright state they have not and will not divorce even though they have not R'd. They stay for a myriad reasons, but they fully state they are not and probably will not R. They simply choose to "not divorce".

We are an infidelity site, not a sinning site. We are addressing the infidelity issues. There is nothing wrong with making judgments. Most everyone makes judgments everyday. That is how we decide what we do. And, yeah, as I said in your other thread I believe the AP mindfucked you. end t/j

I suppose it depends on the judgment. Safeguard made a judgment and it appears her judgment was seen as "wrong" by many.

I don't mean to t/j but I am interested in if anyone is of the belief that if a Wayward is groomed, and preyed upon.... Does that does mitigate that wayward's level of responsibility as opposed to a wayward that just straight up chooses to cheat?

Your question pinpoints what bothers me most about the "AP was predatory" thought or statement. It brought me to the realization that when I have read that here and other places, I think "What does it matter?" It should not negate or lessen the responsibility, blame and CHOICE of the WS, remorseful or otherwise. Channing Tatum could have preyed on me every day while I was married and it would not have lessened my ability to tell him "No thank you" even though my husband was borderline emotionally abusive.

I don't feel bad for WS or AP that are "preyed upon" nor do I think they are less than 100% responsible for choosing to mess around. An affair cannot be forced, or it changes from affair to rape.