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Why is she going to a cooking class? Does she want to cook? Or is this just because she has nothing better to do?

Even when the cheater is doing everything possible, one of the most difficult thing I remember is that she slept very well. I know I am not alone in that especially right after d-day, it's very difficult to sleep. And so many cheaters I've read about here sleep peaceful like a baby. That goes along with just the regular day-to-day stuff. They go to their classes, their little hobbies, and life goes on apparently normal for them. Meanwhile the betrayed can't eat, can't sleep, it's always on the mind.

What bothers me about your post now is that you pay four jobs and your wife has a lot of leisure, but not for the family. You are paying for her to have fun. Nothing wrong with having interests outside of you and your son, but not cool that she lets you have four jobs and pushing you on five and have no time. Then criticize you about it.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the hysterical bonding, it's about the only good thing at this point - it's only no good if it influences you to rugsweep the whole thing and not do the things that need to be done, on her side and yours, to fix this thing.

When I was younger, they used to say, she needs an attitude adjustment.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 9:06 AM, October 29th (Saturday)]

I'd file a complaint against the friend who called the cops. Just to give a little payback.

Don't be in denial of who your wife really is. Eyes wide open.

You have been viewing her as who you thought she was not who she is.

Psychopath comes to mind.

Hello guys. Lots to report. Starting with nekonamida. Yes, she is a professional victim. I am much bigger than her and can be gruff. She is tiny and looks very fragile. She looks innocent. She looks sympathetic. You see her and immediately want to protect her. I have seen this over and over again when people meet her. She plays that to the hilt and the role of the victim is extremely powerful in eliciting sympathy from others and guilt from mer. She is a master at this. I think this is how she has gotten away with so much shit in her life and our marriage.

She also has a big mouth. She tells everyone everything about our lives. I am a very private person. This is the most I have ever revealed about my life in this forum. I have asked her to keep our private lives private and if we need to work stuff out we should talk about it. Instead, she blabs to her you go girls whenever we have an argument, no doubt painting me as an asshole. Their view of me is no doubt extremely distorted. And believe me these ladies have serious issues of their own. I have seen the words “emotional abuse” in her texts.

I think you are really right about this gade. Every minor or major fight or argument we have she goes screaming to her friends and family telling them how horrible I am. They have been conditioned to hate me. I am not saying I am perfect, but I am certainly not the monster that they seem to view me as.

I am going to ask to get a copy of the police report. That should be very interesting.

The whole “emotional abuse” and “isolate from friends” is bullshit. I think she is using this language to justify what she has done. She needs to be able to live with herself and her actions. She needs to look like the victim to her friends and herself.. There was never any emotional abuse (or any for that matter) or isolation. Just the normal ups and downs of a marriage needing help. Wk I think you are absolutely right. She has never said to anyone that she treated me horribly. She tells everyone that I am such a meanie that she was forced into the arms of another man. I think she believes this in her heart.

I told her yesterday that I need her to start looking for a job asap. She has done nothing on this front. That she needed to be open and transparent (which I think she has tried to be). That she needs to reevaluate whether her friendships are helpful or harmful to our marriage (she is very resistant to this).

Instead she went to a fucking cooking class. And told me how yummy the food was. She is a terrible cook and didn’t do it to try and help that aspect of our marriage. She just wanted to hang out with her girlfriend and be out of the house. She came back in a great mood. Everything was just fine.

She did one thing. She kept off her phone for most of the evening and actually tried to have a conversation with me rather than sit and text by the fire. You guys are so right. Actions not words. I have seen few actions so far. And I am losing my patience with that.

notanotherchange: she referred to him by name in her text. I just didn't want to put that fucking assholes name in here.

shiloe and ivehadit: my gut is starting to believe what you are suggesting. My heart is not there yet.

redbaron: You’re note really resonated with me. I think we have a similar belief system. I would have done ANYTHING for my wife. I had crazy thoughts that I would give her a kidney if she ever needed one, or if she got sick, I would do everything in my power to help her and take care of her. I was in this for the long haul.

But you're very right. Something is different now. That special bond that you refer to that I thought we had is broken. I don’t know if it can ever be fixed. You are so right when you say that bond has nothing to do with legality, social, or religious obligations. It is ineffable. And when its lost it is probably lost forever. I don’t know. I don’t want to believe that. I want to believe that it can be repaired. Thanks for the book suggestion and other advice.

Thanks shiloe. You are very correct and your points are much appreciated. I tried to be understanding of a woman being with a young child so much. So I gave her plenty of slack but to be fair resented her for being so lazy. I marveled at how other women with more children or children and careers were able to manage their lives so well.

As for cooking. Don’t get me started. She is a terrible fucking cook. I can not tell you how many awful meals I have choked down with a smile on my face. When I tried to give her constructive criticism she would pout and complain that “she can’t do anything right in my eyes”. So I would apologize back off and choke down more horrible food. This lack of backbone is my own fault. And I am embarrassed to even write this. But it is the truth.

Thanks realitybites. The VAR is starting to sound more like something I might do. I can’t believe my life has come to this.

I don’t sleep well. I take a sleep aid. And wake up at 3 am every night. I can’t get back to sleep till 7 am and then the alarm goes off. I am tired and moody.

I went to see my IC today. It was such a tremendous relief to speak to another human being about this. Maybe he was being nice, or because he is supposed to be my advocate, but he helped me feel like I was not crazy to have a lot of thoughts that I do about this whole situation. He reminded me who I am. I have a tendency to let others (my wife, the you go girls, gossips) tell me who I am - a piece of shit. But when you lay things out objectively, it is clear that there is no truth to that.

After the therapy session I met my wife and son to do some trick or treating. I could not even look at her. It felt like we were already divorced and were getting together to do a function with our child to make him happy. This is something that I absolutely dread. Shared custody. My poor boy bouncing from house to house. Parent to parent. Step parent to step parent. Oh for fucks sake I can’t imagine anything worse. I can’t believe people do this all the time. That this is normal for families and children. I NEVER imagined this as a possibility for my life or my boy. But it is.

I need to start making real connections with people pronto.

Do both parties function is a dark fog or does that affect the BS more?

I don't like the word fog because it seems so mysterious and mystical. It's about misperceptions of reality. There is an objective reality. If you are invested in an issue, very rarely will you or the other party completely see the objective reality, but will see it skewed one way or another. Some betrayed spouses put it all on them.

You can't do much about her fog, her misperception. You could explain it to her, but she won't agree.

It looks you were in a fog, misperceiving reality, for a long time before she even cheated. This is true of her, too, and all of us probably to some degree, but it's easier for me to see this in you, and it would be easier for you to see it in me if I told my story. We are too close to our own stuff, we can't see the forest from the trees. When you are aware of that, you can do better, step back, and try to get closer to the objective reality.

You are so much more invested to this marriage right now, and in the past year or so at least, that I wonder if you were aware of this, or if you were too busy running from job to job to job to job, running on the treadmill, just trying to deal with each little emergency of hers, she needs you to buy this or that for you or your son, she needs you to take her here or there, you need, you need, you need to do this and that and the other thing - it's all on you, everyone's happiness in this home somehow is all based on whether you do this or that. And every time you push back, you are mean, you are emotionally abusive. Do you know how many times I've seen this dynamic in my life? I could never keep track.

Some men like to want to do everything for their family. That is you. And that is all fine and well, but only if she appreciates you. She doesn't now. What I don't know, and what I think you should think about, is when that happened. Was it always like that? Did it start in your early dates? Did it happen after engagement? After marriage? After kids? When did you become the mean emotionally abusive husband? And how did that happen? Was there an incident that you did? After you think about it and work it out a little, I think you should ask her about that, too.

I also have to question her family, in particular, but her friends, as well. I don't think people are so ignorant that they can't see the reality of your and her actions in that marriage. I must believe that she has shunned anyone who disagrees with her. I have seen that more times than I can count, too, and not just about infidelity.

I think you saw her selfishness, you knew she would push and push and push for more and more and more from you, but you somehow never thought that her selfishness would ever extend to betraying you or cheating on you.

The affair did not happen in a vacuum.

Old habits die hard. She had an affair largely allowed because of the good life you've given her, all the free time she has during school hours, 8:30 to 2:30 every day, while you are busy working and her resenting you for not being there for her. So in the aftermath of the affair, what does she do, and you do? She goes to a cooking class, which you paid for, while you watched your son or otherwise took care of the home.

She is telling her friends and family one thing, and you another, about how she feels about you. She is with you, so actions speak a lot louder than words to me, but unfortunately your wife has surrounded herself people who believe the words and ignores the action. But I would be curious, if you could be open and calm with her, to ask her what you have done to be so emotionally abusive to her, and why she hasn't divorced from such a bad husband, and is not planning to divorce? I also would like to know when you became the bad guy?

Wk - you are probably right about the fog. I am living in an aura of unreality. Or maybe I am finally starting to see the reality and not like what I see. But it makes me feel constantly queasy and unstable like another terrible thing is going to happen any moment. I see others smile and go about their lives. People holding hands. I see a lot of rings on fingers. To others I must seem normal enough but I feel like I am going to crack with the gentlest breeze.

You are very correct. I was very invested in this marriage It was the bedrock of my life. All of the work I have been doing for the past year has been to ultimately have more time and money for my family. There was going to be a big payoff with our new business. All of the hardship was temporary and I had mapped it out (literally) on a marker board with milestones and goals that I shared with my wife. She was fully on board. She knew this was all a temporary hardship and then we would have a lot more time to devote to our marriage and each other when these goals were achieved in the next few months. There was no ambiguity here. It was spelled out clearly. Spoken about in detail.

Thats what makes the fact that she was cheating PRECISELY when I was working so hard to make things better for us so much more hurtful. And moreover when I was running from job to job to job etc… she never offered to pick up any of the slack. On my interview for my 5th job she never said, “Let me find work. You shouldn’t have to do that.” Instead, it was “Good luck!” And secretly she went to a concert with her boyfriend when I was out of town at the interview. Pathologic and cruel.

Im sure none of the you go girls know these details. Or maybe they do. Who the fuck knows. You are right about one thing. She has told this to the particularly dysfunctional of her friends. The ones with stable, normal, marriages, she has kept in the dark. Probably exactly for the reasons you suggest.

For my part, I think I did follow the NMMNG dynamic. I thought my needs should be obvious, ie. “Get off your ass and do something for this family.” I would hint it. I would suggest it. Gently encourage it for months and months. And then get mad and yell it. Then suddenly I was being an ogre and abusive. I think that is the dynamic that we have followed. That book has been full of insights for me.

I wonder if she loves me at all. Probably a stupid sounding question to many reading this. Does she just love the safety and security that I provide? If the other guy wanted to leave his wife and be with her, would she have run off with him? Does she want to stay with me because he dumped her and she has no other man (for the time being) to take care of her?

I am so angry.

She texted me asking if we “could talk”. I have been avoiding her all day.

I wonder what new set of horrors this talk will bring.

It is almost Halloween after all.

I wonder if she loves me at all. Probably a stupid sounding question to many reading this. Does she just love the safety and security that I provide? If the other guy wanted to leave his wife and be with her, would she have run off with him? Does she want to stay with me because he dumped her and she has no other man (for the time being) to take care of her?

Not a stupid question. It is THE question that people like you and I ponder. Is she here for me, or the lifestyle?

One point I think I need to make (or confirm since you already made this point). You said that her parents and family and friends support her and have not really reached out to you. What does that tell you? I think in your previous post, you understand the simple truth of all of this.

I am 5 years out and am still married to my wife. Only a few of her toxic friends knew and her family never found out. Her parents and family are stupid to the whole deal. But for me, if I knew her parents knew about it and did not reach out to me, I would have exited stage left pronto.

This is simply unacceptable that these people would not want to help you. UNACCEPTABLE!!!

Griz, I guess what I am saying to you is this. Part of the deal with marriage is trust. You married into a family with your best intentions thinking that all involved would be your friend. You supported her and are giving your all. If this is the case, you need to stand up and claim it. Make sure that the bystanders and supporters of her behavior be branded as betrayers, including her family and friends. Without this, there is nothing in what we can refer to a marriage. It means nothing. The marriage never meant anything, other than an excuse to have a party.

[This message edited by TheDarkestTime at 4:39 PM, October 29th (Saturday)]

And when its lost it is probably lost forever. I don’t know. I don’t want to believe that. I want to believe that it can be repaired.

It can but only with a WS who can do the work to fundamentally change the M and their role in it. The real question is can or will your WW do that. Unfortunately, I don't think she can. She sounds incredibly entitled and immature and you're right, she's already putting off doing some of the very basic things you have asked for in favor of herself again. She's waiting until you let it go and everything goes back to normal which is the real killer to a M after infidelity.

This is something that I absolutely dread. Shared custody. My poor boy bouncing from house to house. Parent to parent. Step parent to step parent. Oh for fucks sake I can’t imagine anything worse. I can’t believe people do this all the time. That this is normal for families and children. I NEVER imagined this as a possibility for my life or my boy. But it is.

Kids are far more resilient than we give them credit for and you're lucky that he's still young. You're looking at this situation through the eyes of an adult. Your son can't possibly see it this way. In his eyes, he gets two houses, two bedrooms, and more (hopefully) loving, involved parents in his life. Maybe more kids to play with if there are blended families involved. Sure, those issues can bring more difficulties too but a 4-year-old doesn't see it that way right off the bat like an adult does. It can easily become his new normal and if you are a happier, stabler parent with more time to give him now that you're not working 4-5 jobs, isn't that a big win for him?

I also have to ask - have you ever thought about the health repercussions to working as much as you do? Have you thought about how it could easily lead you to an early grave? Getting your work/life balance in check should be a top priority here whether or not you stay with your WW. It's going to be far more damaging to your DS if you keel over from a stress-induced heart attack at an early age from overworking than having to switch to a public school will be.

How did the talk go, grizzly?

More to say later.

But I just found out she would masturbate thinking about him in the shower 2-3x a week right before coming to bed.

Boom!

Griz, I would have expected that. That is par for the course. In the affair, she was focused sexually on him.

You have plenty of issues with your wife, but her doing that in the shower I think is just part and parcel of what an affair is, practically any affair.

Like wk stated---it is part and parcel for the affair. Try not to obsess on it. You are going to discover more and more specifics that you most certainly will not like.

You stated this earlier:

Then I think about that book NMMNG and realize that I have a LOT of baggage that I need to deal with. I am a Nice Guy par excellence. I am a damaged person who found another damaged person - with the resultant dysfunctional marriage and recent disaster.

Often times it takes a life-shattering moment like the discovery of infidelity to see what their marriage not only is, but has been since its inception. I am not saying that the cheating has always been there, but as for the entitlement, the selection of friends who feed off of each others dysfunction(birds of a feather), the lack of real effort to be an equal partner in the relationship---those have always been there. And whatever shortcoming that you brought into the relationship where there also. This is what your dynamic was built on.

And for many, this type of marriage may work well for them. It may have continued to work for the two of you. But along the way, the entitlement manifested even further. You were downplayed, resented, and eventually villianized. And now that all(or almost all) has been brought to light, you are left trying to sort through the rubble.

The trouble with reconciliation is currently twofold. The first REAL issue is whether both of you are truly committed to trying to reconcile. It may take some time until both of you have your answer to that. The other issue is the entire rewiring that the two of you will need to attempt a new marriage. If nothing else, you KNOW that you won't go back to the status quo. I would assume that even if you had some sort of 'guarantee' that she would never cheat again, you would not accept many of her previous shortcomings as you move forward. That means that she has to give up her entire network of enabling friends, she would have to set her family straight on the real grizzly that was NOT an abuser in the marriage, and she would have to put in not only her fair share, but MORE than her fair share into this new marriage.

She will basically have to become a different person.

The problem is that, except for the cheating, you accepted and married this woman for who she was. Right or wrong, this is who she was. And now she has to change her core behaviors. Is she capable? Does she even want to change these character flaws/traits?

And you are going to change also. You are no longer going to play the passive role. You are going to change some of your nice guy 'flaws' just out of mere self-preservation. Your entire marriage is going to be different. Is this what you want? These are the questions that the two of you will need to sort out.

The past day or so has been rough for me.

I don’t know what to do with all the photographs.

We have thousands of photos from our walks and trips and hikes. I was completely present in those moments. I was grateful to not be working and to be outside. I especially liked to walk a little behind my wife, son, and dog and photograph them walking ahead of me. Or video them just walking. The sight of those three tiny figures that mean so much to me choked me up. It never got old.

I would think that in that frame was the most important group of people in my life. My entire universe in a frame. The backgrounds varied. Mountains, beach, forrest. But it was always my wife, my son, and our dog.

And then there are the happy pictures of us. Awkward blurry selfies. Formal pictures. Group pictures. So many of them. Smiles. Kisses. Hugs. Goofy faces.

It all seems so fake.

When we were walking together, we would pass the location where they would make out and fuck and she would think of him while I thought of her and my boy and how beautiful the place was and how great it was to be outside with he people I loved the most.

What do I do with the photographs? What do I do with these memories? What do I do with these places? These are the most beautiful places where we live. Stunning scenery. Peaceful. Quiet. Ripe for self-reflection and contemplation. And also for adultery apparently.

I can not go there anymore. But they went everywhere. Every place seems tainted and dirty. Even the mundane places. Parking lots and grocery stores where they used to meet seem like they are shaming and mocking me.

Thank God I am moving. But these places are so beautiful I would have come here time and again for the rest of my life. I like seeing how they change with the seasons - like the shadows on a sand dune as the sun moves across the sky. These places are so beautiful all year. I don’t see the beauty anymore. I just see betrayal and lies.

TheDarkestTime.- You are very correct in your view. Do you think I should have my wife explain in detail to her friends and family what she did? And what I was doing while she was having her affair? I am certainly not going to put the responsibility of my decisions on you, but I’d love to hear your opinion. I will discuss with my therapist before I do anything. But I have been tempted to ask her come clean not just to me but to her friends and family. I know she has lied prodigiously to them as well. Apparently she was talking to one of her friends the other day. She gave her friend some more details and her friend said to her “You lie by omission.” Obvious to me. This is something I have told her before. But coming from her friend, it seemed to have had more of an impact.

Nekonimida - I have serious doubts about whether she can do the work it will take to fix things. She is lazy and immature. She runs from her problems and expects others to fix them for her. I think she has been doing that her how life. But she is saying that she wants to do what it takes. She actually put together a timeline last night. I thought it would take about 10 minutes. It took over an hour and a half and 3 full legal pad pages. It was hard for her. But she did do that. We went over it in detail. More stuff came out. Explicit stuff. Romantic stuff. It was really painful. I was angry. I cried. She cried more. I didn't think I could experience this much pain for so long. But from what I understand this is just the beginning. Thank god we forget pain. Just thinking about it makes the tears start up again. That has become a familiar feeling. The welling of tears in the lower lids. The clasping of my chest. The tickle as they roll down my cheeks. Miserable.

Going off on tangents.

She was very apologetic. I think she is starting to understand the extent of what she has done.

As for my boy. You may be right Nekonamida. But that is not the life I imagine or hope for him. My childhood was unstable and chaotic and the one thing I wanted was to give my boy a happy loving, stable childhood. It’s too late for me. But I have to give him that. Otherwise my life has no meaning. That is my sole purpose. To make sure he is ok. I have to protect him. And love him. And make sure he is happy to the best of my ability. I feel like I failed him already. I spent too much time working and not enough on my marriage. I think my intentions were good, but the outcome has been a disaster. I was hoping that once our business was up and running and he was a bit older he could work in the business with me and that would make up for some of the time that I was away.

I know kids are resilient and many blended households work beautifully. But I can’t give up on my dream for my boy just yet. I have to try. I hope that is not selfish.

As for the health repercussions. Yes. I think about them all the time. All of this work is literally killing me. I don’t sleep enough. I eat like shit. I don’t exercise. I am constantly stressed. But the whole idea was to take on all this extra work for a finite period of time. Just a few more months until our business was up and running. Then one job. Being my own boss. More income. More free time. More flexibility. Working and spending more time with my spouse. The trade off was supposed to be worth it. It is something that I have been working on for sometime. And the fruit of my labors will be harvested soon. And then this.

CuckNO - the talk was really hard. I can stay calm and receptive for so long. Then my emotions get a hold of me. I get angry. I lash out. Nothing I say or hear is satisfying. Even when I tell her how much she hurt me and why she hurt me. Even when she responds with tears or remorse or regret. There is no satisfaction. There is no satisfaction in being right.

I have to be conscious of not taking on the victim mentality. It is easy and tempting.

wk - thank you. you responded and told me exactly what I needed to hear when I needed to hear it. You are very correct and stated it nicely. “She was focused sexually on him.” I’m not sure why should wouldn’t have masturbated to him. It was just a painful detail to hear. She showers before bed and then kisses me goodnight. For her to do that before coming to bed to me just was another arrow in my heart.

jb3199 - there is nothing like a dose of truth and reality. Your comments have it in abundance. I think you have very accurately described my current situation and what needs to be done if there is going to be any reconciliation.

This is an odd notion. But I do think of this forum as a safe space (even though its the internet). I am trying to be brutally honest about things here. Do you guys think its a good idea to share some of the advice on here with my wife or even share this thread? Probably a dumb idea.

She doesn’t know I’m on here (Yes, I’m being secretive about it. Sue me.)

What about NMMNG. Should I share that book with her? To understand me better? Probably another dumb idea.

I think you guys can see what kind of a person I am. I have a hard time keeping important things from my wife. That is what my idea of what a marriage is supposed to be.

These circumstances are very different though. That’s why I’m asking.

TheDarkestTime.- You are very correct in your view. Do you think I should have my wife explain in detail to her friends and family what she did? And what I was doing while she was having her affair? I am certainly not going to put the responsibility of my decisions on you, but I’d love to hear your opinion. I will discuss with my therapist before I do anything. But I have been tempted to ask her come clean not just to me but to her friends and family. I know she has lied prodigiously to them as well. Apparently she was talking to one of her friends the other day. She gave her friend some more details and her friend said to her “You lie by omission.” Obvious to me. This is something I have told her before. But coming from her friend, it seemed to have had more of an impact.

You cannot make your wife do anything as far as setting the record straight. IMO, she either feels remorse or does not. She should not worry about herself, she should put YOU first. YOU are the one that is lying in the ditch after being hit by a truck. She either calls for help, or justs sits on her hands as you struggle. And that means that she should fall on grenades for you to protect you from further harm.

I did not ask my wife to come clean or shame her because I didnt feel I needed to. The family did not know and she was ashamed of what she did.

But if my family and friends knew, I would have fully expected her to protect me and not be selfish to protect her own self image. Its hard to know what my wife would have done, but I have to believe (in order to even try to reconcile) she would have propped me up rather than tear me down.

Of the two toxic friends that knew of the affair, she disposed of them after she came to.

So my reaction to the situation was not to make any demands, that she prove to me that I was important enough to protect and cherish. So I guess my opinion is no, I would not "tell her" to come clean and prove it that way. Maybe just let her judge by herself what is right and wrong, let her make decisions. This will allow her to show you. That doesnt meen you cant give her guidance and what she needs to do with these other relationships. If she asks or as the situations come up, let her know why someone is not very healthy as a freind or foe of the marriage.

In time, if your wife loves you, she will grow to hate the enablers and cheerleaders of the affair.

I think this is one of the things you should be looking for when asking the question "does she love me or the lifestyle".

[This message edited by TheDarkestTime at 4:49 PM, October 30th (Sunday)]

I think some exposure will certainly help.

it will set the record straight , gains you some support and can even help keep the affair from starting back up later on.

I forget did you tell OM's wife?

[This message edited by convert at 11:10 PM, October 30th (Sunday)]

I think you shouldn't share this place, shouldn't even tell her you are searching advice on the internet. My opinion she will disparage any advice given here as internet yahoos who can't know about her and your situation.

She will think her and the you go girls know best.

Best to share some books suggested here. Books will have more authority to her.

Please do NOT share this safe space with her. I can almost guarantee she will not react well.

I also don't think having her read the book will do anything positive.

And she probably won't willingly tell her friends the real nasty truth about her infidelity.

And I'm sorry about all of that.

I would advise that you share this site with your WW if you wish to do so....BUT ONLY AFTER YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE A REMORSEFUL SPOUSE THAT IS WORKING TO RECONCILE.

I personally showed my WW this site right after my initial D-day. I did this because I was always an open book, and wanted no 'secrets' kept from her....especially being that I wanted total honesty from her. But the truth is that she wasn't ready for it, and it was of no help. Over time, my WW has learned that it is my safe space, and doesn't dissuade me from being here.

Not that it matters---She is not going to tell me where I will and won't go for support.

If your WW was 'all in' on the reconciliation, but lost as in how to do so, then it is your call whether to show her this site....or not. Personally, the former waywards are awesome at seeing right through someone's bullshit---and holding their feet to the fire. Just as we know what to look for, and what advice to offer you, it is the same over in the Wayward Forum.

If you haven't read over there, I would advise you to do so. Fantastic advice there for confused waywards who are trying to piece their life back together....in a healthy way.

You need to be loved and respected. Among the ways you can use it, one is for it to act as your yardstick by which to gauge your wife's actions. So far you have...

1. Unwilling to get a job while you work 4 of them.

2. Doesn't care if you are a private person and blabs to everyone.

3. Uses the term "isolated" to try to manipulate you

4. Has thrown around "emotional abuse" to describe you to other people

5. Refuses to disengage from people who aren't friends of you or your marriage.

6. She is attempting to rugsweep everything instead of helping you to heal

It isn't a good start as her focus is on herself, how she looks and on avoiding any pain/consequences.

Do you guys think its a good idea to share some of the advice on here with my wife or even share this thread?

Right now you have a wife who is excellent at playing the victim role and is great at manipulating others to get what she wants. The last thing you need is to give her insight into where you are at, some of the steps you are considering and what advice you are receiving because that would equip her to know exactly how to manipulate you.

The only time it would seem to make sense to share it would be if, through consistent and extended actions, you see that your wife is remorseful and is in the process of doing the work to change herself. Even then, this is your safe place and once you reveal it, that is gone, so you really want to be certain where you stand before making that move.

Yes, you guys really are giving good advice yet again. TheDarkestTime, what you say rings true. If she loves me and wants to make things right she will put me first. I am just afraid she will go through the motions. Right now I don’t know if she just doesn't know what to do or is just hoping everything will blow over. But other than a few gestures (I can see her phone, timeline), tears, and empty promises, I don’t see a hell of a lot. I did see that she ordered some books about saving your marriages after infidelity. And we are all going to therapy individually and as a couple (all of which she set up). So actually maybe I am not giving her enough credit. Maybe she is trying and I am too mad to really notice or care. Time will tell. I don’t think she is going to give up the you go girls. She will change her story and say how they were telling her the “right” thing to do all along.

Today I went back to work as usual. She dropped off our kid at school. And I am left wondering where the fuck she really is. I don’t think she would be stupid enough to meet with him again so soon. But there is no way to know for sure.

She said she would text me and let me know where she is. That she would look for a job. etc…

She was texting me where she was when she was fucking her boyfriend. How the hell am I supposed to believe anything she says? Supposedly she sent me a link to her phone to track that (I didn’t ask for it and it didn’t work). Even if it did, that would only tell me where her phone was. Not who she is with or what she is doing. And there is no way I want to spend the rest of my life wondering all this shit. I have too much other stuff to do that to track her every movement.

I am becoming an expert of infidelity. I don’t want to be. I have ordered a few books myself. Jeff Bezos must know our marriage has gone to hell.

Convert - yes OM wife knows. She is the one who was telling me all of the stuff my wife had done. Her husband came clean to her after lying initially. When he spilled the beans and details, she would tell me and I would confront my wife who would deny or downplay things. But she couldn't challenge the details that I had.

Wk - I have decided to keep this to myself (as much as you can on here). I will not share with her that I having been getting advice online. Let her wonder. And nutmegkittiy - you are probably correct about the books not helping her. But it shows effort. Lets she if she actually reads them. I am very skeptical.

Halloween is one of my favorite holidays of the year and Fall my favorite season.

My heart just isn't into either right now.