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My fear is...if I call her out again...and throw out the D...and I'm wrong [most of you think I am spot on]...well...that is very scary for me.

Whether this has gone physical or not, you would not be wrong. At the very least she is having an EA. That's easy enough to figure out with the volume/frequency of the texts and the texts that you did read.

If you can't get proof of a PA, drop it for now and call her out on the EA. She either becomes completely transparent with her phone and stops all outside contact or that's it.

If she does agree, at some point you'll have an opportunity to install spyware on her cell and can confirm the no contact. If she doesn't it's a moot point anyway.

We have a 6 year old too. His father passed before he was borne. So, I'm dad. Honestly, I feel like just surrogate dad these days.

Actually if you have not legally adopted, she has a 6 year old that you are helping to raise, and you have no legal rights.

Look, if you don't have full and complete transparency with each other (other than here at SI) then you don't have much of a marriage.

If she is hiding her phone, doesn't share passwords, etc...you're just a paycheck.

When you confront, if she refuses to hand over her phone, unlocked, then just end it then...no need to continue the conversation at that point as your M is basically dead because of her actions.

Think about this, if she is not willing to be transparent, why would you want to be with her anymore at all?

After you confront, most of us here would bet that she'll call him from the car. You'll learn a lot

This 10,000 times.

I contronted. I had a VAR in his car. I actually taped it to the underside of the child's booster seat. He never found it.

First thing on his drive to work Monday morning. He had an 1 and a half long conversation with her concerning how scared I was to lose him. Let's take our conversations to twitter messages.

My only mistake was not finding SI sooner. I would have saved myself weeks of bull crap.

Instinctively I knew he would contact her. I knew I wanted to hear that conversation. I remembered using VAR from college classes.

I taped it in the car when he was in the shower Monday morning.

She will contact him. NEVER NEVER Reveal the VAR.

Agree with everyone else, this runs deep. But just a simple thought. When the sh*t hit the fan, she wanted a hug from the OM. That right there tells you, you're not #1.

She'll gaslit you like no other. My exw said, "I know it looks like a lot of text messages but we're different. It's mostly work related."

Bull crap.

My fear is...if I call her out again...and throw out the D...and I'm wrong [most of you think I am spot on]...well...that is very scary for me. I need to be honest with all of you.

I get this. It's one think to feel in your gut she is cheating it's another thing to divorce someone with a small son over that gut feeling.

Have you tried running a text retrieval program on her phone? I think the proof you need are in those messages. Those messages will tell you if it's poor boundaries or full out sexual affair. You can find out more about what program to run in the Investigative forum on this site.

As far as getting her phone?!? The fact that she keep it plastered to her is a HUGE RED FLAG. The no sex for 1.5 months is a HUGE RED FLAG...You've been married one year. The fact that she works with him and still had 700 texts to him...300 to you HUGE RED FLAG.

You should be able to say "listen, those 700 text to your coworker have really knocked me for a loop. We have only been married for a year and you've admitted that some of the messages were inappropriate. I'd like to see your phone so I can start building back some sort of trust. When she give you her phone you can give her yours. Then you can leave the room and run a program on it.

Yes, get a VAR...or three.

My husband's affair was with a coworker too. And at first I only found some mild (yet not appropriate) text messages. I was told they were just flirting..etc. Then found out the worst of the worst.

IMO the reason why they don't talk on the phone much is because they don't need to. They get to see each other at work and talk face to face. And texting is easier when she is at home. However, everyone is right. If and when you truly confront her, she will most likely call him.

The most important thing to remember is that you shouldn't feel bad or scared to demand openness, especially after what you've already found. If you straight up ask her to show you her phone on command and she doesn't, you know your answer. No one ever withholds information that can prove their innocence. This about it. Say someone you loved was hurt and thought you were messing around when you weren't. And they asked to see your phone immediately. If you were innocent, would you not just say "ok fine, here you go"? No matter how frustrated and angry you might be at the accusations, you would do whatever you could to show that you are innocent and that the accusations are absurd. You would not get mad, yell, hide your phone, and be mean. Those are tactics reserved for full blown cheaters, I promise.

I'm sorry

I read your story One, and I can tell you, this is EXACTLY how the beginning of me finding everything out about my wife's affair started.

Hundreds of texts to her COW - check.

Guards her phone like it's her life - check.

Withdraws intimacy to be faithful to her other guy - check.

Goes out with COW (and other COWs allegedly) after work - but not staying out too late as to be suspicious - check.

Tells me I'm nuts - check.

I would just say this as someone with experience with exactly what you're dealing with, if you just approach her with the number of texts to this guy, she'll just deny it and they'll immediately find another app to communicate with that you can't track. In fact, my wife took care to keep the extreme stuff off regular texting and was already using another app for the sexting.

But I made a mistake and just confronted my wife with just the # of texts. All she did was deny and take the thing further underground. And I wasted more months of my life.

The way I found out for sure - like everyone's said - get a VAR and put it in her car. You'll find out things from her talking to him on the phone, talking to her friends on the phone, them riding around together, etc.

I found out more than I ever needed to know in less than a week with the VAR. And my wife just rode to work and back in her car - but that's when I learned the most. And think about it, that's the place that she believes she has full privacy, so that's where the talking will take place. I'm telling you - it's the best and quickest way to find out the truth - without her being able to explain it away.

Get the VAR first - before you confront. Don't bother to confront her about the texts, it'll be a total waste of time. Once you get the truth off the VAR, then you can figure out what you want to do. And as others have said, DO NOT reveal that you used the VAR, no matter how much you want to throw it in her face. Again, I know the feeling. Otherwise you'll just cut off a valuable resource in getting the truth.

Good luck!

This is pretty much exactly what I went through a couple of years ago, with the exception of you seeing clear evidence that the conversation was inappropriate.

I never got that much. All the texts I saw, even the deleted ones I was able to recover were innocuous. Had I found what you did, who knows how I would have reacted. Probably would have done something pretty stupid, considering the things I almost did without that.

The only advice I can give is to be prepared to never find out for sure. I did computer and phone recovery, var, and a polygraph, and I’m still just as much in the dark as I was then.

My wife to this day claims none of it was sexual or romantic. You already know that yours did at least something more than just friendly conversation. Whether she got physical with him or not, you know she betrayed you, know she lied to you, know that she “went there” to at least some degree.

I will say that my wife immediately gave me full access to all of her devices, laptop, passwords, any time I want to this day. She never hesitated on that. I even have the password to her work email, and she gives me the new one anytime it changes.

She leaves find my friends on for me to see where she is, and explicitly stated she doesn’t want me to share my location with her. She wants me to know that I can show up anywhere she is without her knowing I’m near.

Does that mean she doesn’t have another method? No. But I would not for a second have tolerated her withholding any of these from me. Whether or not you want to save your marriage is a personal choice, that only you can make. Neither I, nor most people on here would judge you on that.

You have to demand absolute transparency and accountability from her. That’s not up for debate in my opinion.

Solo, whether or not she was complete open about what happened you can’t know, but your wife is a good example of what a WW will do to ensure her BH feels safe and to work hard toward R.

Hi, again, I will reiterate what I suggested and what others have suggested.

IMO you need to gather more evidence. If you confront her, I can almost guarantee that she will continue to deny, and the affair will go underground further than it already is.... burner phones, new emails, apps on her phone.

Get the VAR or two. You need solid proof. Unless, of course, you are able to acquire her text messages as another poster suggested and gave you information on how to do that.

The only way out of infidelity is to get out of infidelity. Right now you are smack in the middle of it. Gather evidence, then confront. She will not be able to deny, blameshift, manipulate, or blameshift when the evidence is staring her in the face.

Oneroad,

I'm a little late to the party, but the one thing that stood out to me is this: you ask if you need more proof and what do you do if she refused to give you the phones? First, there is software out there to recover deleted texts. Second, my conversation with her would last about 30 seconds. It would go a little something like this:

"Wife, I feel that you are engaged in at minimum, inappropriate contact with another man, and at worst, an affair. I know you have been contacting this man via text, and I have seen some of your communication. Let me see your phones, unlocked right now. If you refuse, then I will take this as an admission of an affair, and I will proceed from there". That's it. Stop talking. Don't let her change the conversation, don't let her turn it around on things you've done. She can scream and "flip out" and cuss and do whatever she wants. Do not engage, do not react. You've got to put your big boy pants on here a little bit.

Once she realizes she doesn't control the situation, you will get what you're looking for one way or the other. If it goes bad, and she refuses, be prepared to listen to the other members and start the 180 and file for divorce. You don't need any more PROOF unless you live in a state where infidelity benefits you in a divorce. The only proof you need is what you have and how she reacts.

Cheaters lie. She will lie about it even if you find proof. She will do this because you're messing up her good time. Affairs thrive in darkness. Once it's pulled into the light, it's not the same. Don't accept anything other than what you want and be prepared to walk if you don't get it. You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.

Are you ok with being lied to? I'll be one here to say there's a good chance it hasn't gone physical... yet. Still, does that matter to you? You know she lied and it's obvious the OM is more of a priority to her than you are.

These days, people in my life get to tell me one lie. One. So they'd better make it a doozy. After that, I'm out. They'll be no second lies told to me after I'm aware of the first one.

I'm also not going to say "pretty please, don't mess around with that OM! Can't you see I'm better in X number of ways?!"

I'm not going to beat my chest like a caveman and threaten a WW or OM.

I'm certainly not going to try and turn into some sort of half-assed gumshoe detective.

(I once did all 3 of these things by the way, to no avail. She kept playing around with other men behind my back)

The minute someone lies to me and/or proves to me I'm absolutely not their priority, they're gonna see tail-lights. It's not kind or altruistic but I wanted to show you a method in which you get yourself out of infidelity with your self-respect and sanity intact. Good luck to you.

[This message edited by Wisedup at 3:00 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

Don't even play this game in trying to "confirm". Just reading what you originally posted, she's cheating. Wtf does "keep it professional now" mean, or "need a hug from my favorite guy".

Do what coach1984 said. If she wasn't cheating, she wouldn't be defensive or hide her phone from you. Suddenly she's on a soapbox about privacy? No.

You already have enough information.

I do like Coach1984's approach, you do know something is going on, and refusal to turnover her cell phone and allow you to recover texts and pics would be like refusing a field breathalyzer from the State Highway Patrol. Refusal is an admission of guilt. Your drivers license is automatically suspended. Done.

The question is, if she refuses, will you file for divorce on that basis and what you know right now? If that alone is not enough to file, ( and frankly, it's hard to argue that it isn't, she just won't allow you to see the evidence) then you have made another dilemma. Would you stay not knowing the truth? Knowing that you have been and are being deceived?

What if there is nothing on it, and nothing can be recovered. Did she delete everything, and/ or the recovery program didn't work, or was is there at all? ( Well, you know something was there).

I just hate to ask questions that I don't already know the answers to most of them. You are not the first to make this call, it happens everyday here. It's a lot like playing poker. You can bluff, but it never hurts to have a good hand.

An idea: Get the damn VAR today and put it in her car. Call her soon after she leaves from work and tell her you want to have a talk about her attitude about your marriage, or something to that effect. I'm guessing as soon as you hang up, she'll be calling OM on her way home to ask his opinion. Just trying to create situations that will allow you to get more info.

Trying to give you all options here.

My wayward wife was texting her male “friend” and talking on the phone with him more than she was talking to me. When I asked if he had a girlfriend, when I was still in denial, she said yes. About a week later I found his Facebook page and it clearly said “single”.

Your wife is screwing this guy, don’t be like me and stay in denial. You don’t deserve this, and I know it’s devastating. You need to start taking care of yourself- eat and drink and get sleep. I lost over 30 pounds in 30 days because I was so depressed, it’s called the infidelity diet. Don’t be a fool, and don’t play the pick me game. If I had the knowledge that I have now, I would have kicked her ass out the first day. Things do get better once you dump her ass and start healing. Don’t waste your time.

Good luck my friend, and welcome to the club.

[This message edited by GoingCrazyNow at 4:09 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

OneRoad, the VAR in the car is not just to overhear their phone conversations. You're right, with technology nowadays, most cheaters use text, KIK, or various other easily hideable apps, rather than have phone conversations. However, there is a small chance that they might, especially if one or both of them have, or now get, burner phones (a secret phone you don't know about, usually a Pay-as-you-go type phone you can pick up at walmart or any store for cash).

But...the other really big reason to put a VAR in the car is because they may have conversations outside their car. (I caught my husband like this). Think, when they are saying goodbye to each other in the parking lot, etc. Or, because she may call a friend with a "oh shit, I'm busted" conversation and discuss the affair. Many cheaters have a confidante that knows about the affair, and, there's no red flags if she calls her best friend, right? Or, god forbid, they have sex in her car. These are the types of things you might hear, not just her phone conversations with OM.

That's why it's also good to put one in the car and also in the house.

ETA: I also caught my husband doing things like talking sexually about women with his friends, like women walking down the street for instance. I also caught him talking to random women at gas stations and such. It was really eye opening, and really disgusting, a side of him that I didn't even know.

[This message edited by OutoftheDeep at 4:12 PM, October 3rd (Tuesday)]

I didn't have time to read the rest.

Why not? Maybe they went out for ice cream and are super pals.

A bit odd you wouldn't want to read the entire message

My dear Survivors,

Some updates. I spoke with my counselor today and she thinks all of you are right. Told me to man the fuck up two weeks ago. No, I did not tell her about the site...just said that it was a helpful message board.

I'm sure she has deleted everything. But 700 texts in three months plus the ones I did see is enough. Something is rotten in Denmark and I can't continue to put myself through this.

Thus, I have written her a long letter. You can't argue with paper. Ultimatum. Give up the ghost or be served walking papers.

My suspicion is EA with a little PA but I won't know until and IF I know. Thank you all for your support. I wish I found you guys 3 months ago! I'll keep you posted. Should be quite a show later.

I'm sorry but if I was in your position and I read a text from my wife to another man that said, "I need a hug from my favorite guy", (emphases on favorite)I would already have my answer to this problem. If I wasn't my wife's favorite guy then I wouldn't be her guy at all. Don't play second to any other man in your marriage. You need to tell her this as you are packing your bags. That just might wake her up. If it doesn't then you don't need to be there anyway. I do wish you well.