SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello Everyone,

I posted here recently and got some good responses. Figured id give it another try with what im going through currently and try to get some insights.

For those that may have not read my last post, To sum it up, my wife had a 2 year affair with a guy she fell in love with, a one night stand, lots of trickle truth and a long term innappropriate relationship with her ex husband. On top of that lots of verbal betrayals to APs, friends, ex husband, etc. Its alot.

I found out a year and 3 months ago. She hid all this from me for years. It all ended about 4 years ago, I found out almost 3 years later. Only when I uncovered the evidence and put it in her face did the truth start coming out, but it took many conversations, having to see all the messages, pictures and videos myself as she wouldn't be honest and lots of trickle truth and a polygraph.

Fast forward to today. My WW is remorseful, honest, transparent and putting in the work to better our Marriage and ourselves individually. It took alot of work to get there, but she's been on the right track for about a year.

However, about once every month ill get triggered so hard that we will have a large verbal argument. Which typically includes me rehashing what she did, how much it hurts me every day and how conflicted I am about our relationship. The triggers can vary, sometimes its awful images flashing in my head, resentment surfacing, something she says that reminds me unintentionally or an array of things.

My mind is very conflicted all the time, my logical mind and my heart are always fighting.

My logical mind says (Run for the hills, if she did that repeatedly she could do it again.) Even though she's showing every effort now, if it happened before the cycle could repeat.

My heart says (You love her more than anyone in this world and you do not want to live without her. Keep trying, keep pushing through. Shes putting in the work.)

These arguments typically last hours, are emotionally draining for both of us and typically ends with us both crying. Her out of the extreme shame and me due to the hurt I feel for what she did to me. We will talk for hours before that typically, she is open and honest, but it doesnt seem to really help me or her in the long run. But im having trouble getting these to stop. I can hold the flood waters back for a while, but after a few weeks it knocks me over and we end up having another argument.

I previously got advice and was suggested a few different IC treatments I should try in my last post to help with severe betrayal trauma. Very helpful and I plan to look further into those.

However, beyond that do any of you have experience with these type of arguments? Although I feel hurt, disgust and sadness every day due to this, im able to keep it relatively together most days, but roughly every month this happens at least once.

The reason im asking, is I feel this is definitely working against our reconciliation. We will do well for weeks, then get set back by one of these arguments. It takes a toll on her and me.

Any of you have any tips on how to avoid these if you've dealt with them previously?

I also question whether I will ever get to a point where I will be able to let some of this go. Im constantly questioning if I should leave and get a D, or stay and continue trying. Again, its not about her current effort, its about whether I can continue to be with someone who could do all of that to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

[This message edited by TheBetrayedHusband at 5:34 PM, Monday, January 5th]

First, I'm sorry for your pain and I can certainly relate to the frequent trigger/emotional discussion cycle. The good news is it sounds like she's continuing to own the mistake. I've seen many posts on here where the WS has begun to respond with "When are you going to stop acting this way?". In my experience you still have a lot of grieving to deal with and IC can help quite a bit. One of the more useful tools I learned from IC, which sounds counter-intuitive, is to not always engage with your WW but to explain to her that when a trigger comes, you may from time to time just ask for some alone time to process it. Hopefully she knows most of the major triggers by now and is learning to respect them. Examples: TV shows ("are you OK with this show", should be a response you're getting in those situations). You don't HAVE to engage with her on every single trigger. It's important to communicate but it's also OK to process them alone if that works as well. I've used this technique periodically. If I feel it coming on or even my wife senses it and inquires, I just say "I'm good, I just need some time" and leave it at that. Go for a walk, go workout, go for a drive, listen to music, etc. My IC also has said to simply "acknowledge" the trigger but also (if accurate) acknowledge, in your head, that you ARE reconciling, you WANT to reconcile and these triggers are your brain still being in fight or flight mode. It's a natural response to trauma that you have to reshape your thinking to help alleviate this type thinkin. Basically you need to re-train it: "Brain, thanks for the warning but I'm getting better, we're working through this" and then pack the thought away. It sounds like a lot of IC foo-foo stuff but it has helped me.

I have these regular arguments with my OH, except ours are a few times a week. It can be something as small as hearing her name on tv, him speaking to me in an offish tone where I'd respond "you wouldn't speak to her like that". It always turns into a late night argument with us both crying.

Will be lurking on this thread. They are so draining but I guess all apart of us healing - in some weird way.

I have a feeling a lot of folks will be relating to this thread...

This is all pretty normal. Triggers are going to happen for a long time. 15 months out is still relatively early.

The next time you have a powerful trigger, write about here before getting into a fight with your wife. I found that very helpful. It allowed me to process whatever was triggering me and put it into perspective. Journalling also works.

For most betrayed spouses, year two is often worse than year one. That first year is more often about recovering from the shock and getting to the truth. Year two is about healing and deciding upon a course of action.

I always advise betrayed spouses in their second year to carefully consider both reconciliation and divorce. Climb up on that proverbial fence and get nicely comfortable. When you know which side of the fence has the greener pastures you'll be able to make the best decision.

Consult a lawyer and educate yourself on your rights. Examine your financial situation and make plans, and then backup plans.

Step-back and detach from your WW. Watch and observe what she does. Forget about your marriage and reconciliation for a while. Focus on you and your healing. Focus on finding your own happiness and peace of mind, body and spirit.

Try not to hold back the flood waters. Feel the feels, let them was over you. When sorrow hits, cry until the tears run dry. When the rage hits, go on a seven state killing spree, invade a foreign country, or, better still, burn off that anger at the gym or a long bike ride.

The point is to process all of those emotions out of our body.

Every situation is unique.

The people involved are unique; what was done and not done, unique; the relationship before and after, unique; what’s been said and not said, unique; etc.

Maybe reconciliation is not in the cards for you. That’s ok. Don’t try and fit a square peg into a round hole.

Best wishes.

TheBetrayedHusband:

Suggest you make a list of all the things which are topics of your arguments.

Also - when emotions get heated, it is a good thing to have agreed that some kind of safe-word or statement can put the session on pause so you both can "cage your gyros."

Then - fall back to one of men's strengths - suffer in silence. I don't mean to suffer without her knowing all about your feelings/thoughts. I mean for you to think about what will be beneficial in further discussion when "losing it."

She will likely ask some questions over and over and over. Answer them with truth and as gently as your vocabulary can provide.

I hope you have already provided her with an all-the-details timeline. Perhaps two - one with every possible detail you can remember. Another with all the facts possible without the intimate details. Let her decide how and what and when to read.

I found that when I had an urge to bring up what my wife did - again; I instead went to work on something if nothing else than manually log splitting. City guys - go to the gym and do squats with 200 lbs of added weight. (or whatever you can manage)

Keep at it till you sweat and begin to tire. You will find your emotions will have magically quieted themself.

Try and learn when she is thinking in resentment and how best to deal with and, if you can, move her thinking away from the feeling. That's a hard one.

If you really do love her, (not being sarcastic but "challenging") SHOW her in her LOVE LANGUAGE and learn to deal with rejection when so doing. If you two are going the way that works for you, progress will be painfully slow but you will see progress.

Another poster has an ongoing thread and their relationship is going on 15 years after D-day. Suggest you read

"May a warm wind fill your sails and a following sea help you on your way"

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 7:13 PM, Monday, January 5th]

TBH, when you trigger, where does your mind go? What is the flow of that triggering process? And by that I really mean what happens from whatever initiates it to your kind of steady state post trigger thinking? How many seconds does it take to get there? What intermediate stages are there in those short seconds?

When you do trigger, your mind is probably diving right into the rumination. Next time it happens pivot and put your awareness on what you actually feel in your body. What is that feeling? Where does it sit and how does it evolve over those initial seconds of the trigger? See if you can’t watch it evolve and try to describe it.

Thanks for the responses so far. I appreciate all of your input.

Just to clarify, We dont fight after every trigger. I have them regularly, but most of the time I can work through them.

I employ methods such as distraction. Ill play guitar or work on something to keep my mind busy. Sometimes ill journal how I feel. Sometimes I lay in silence and try to process the feelings, take a shower, anything to try to stop ruminating.

I also learned recently doing research about calling it out for what it is. If I have a thought saying something like this is trauma, I am safe, I dont need to process this right now.

Although these tactics are helpful, I can't seem to stop the arguments once a month. Any other suggestions on how you handle this?

Also, im alot less productive than I ever was. Ive always been a confident over achiever type, that would put alot of effort into my work and go above and beyond.

Nowadays, im the opposite, I do the bare minimum, I dont have the drive or confidence I used to at all. This whole situation has really wrecked havoc on my life and has changed fundamentally who I am and how I act.

When you trigger, where does your mind go? What is the flow of that triggering process? And by that I really mean what happens from whatever initiates it to your kind of steady state post trigger thinking? How many seconds does it take to get there? What intermediate stages are there in those short seconds?

HOP, thanks for the response and suggestion. To answer your question the best i can.

When i trigger, my mind typically first goes to an image or video that ive seen of her doing things for the AP partner. I have so many in my mind having to uncover all this myself. Its truly a double edged sword. Or it can be thoughts of the ex husband, the one night stand or the verbal betrayals.

That image then sparks anger, resentment, how could she do this to me type of mentality and alot of disgust.

It takes no time at all for me. I have images and thoughts that are trying to invade my brain throughout the day every day. Im constantly battling against it, its exhausting.

Regularly I try to stop it from turning into full blown rumination. I will say aloud, this is trauma talking, I dont need to process this right now, im safe, she's not that person anymore. Or try to do something to keep my mind busy.

The problem is these thoughts come out of no where. I dont actually need a trigger at all, one sec im doing ok and then bam, nasty image in your mind. Also, it happens so much that sometimes I don't even realize im ruminating until im actually in full blown rumination mode. Ill be doing something, trying to pay attention to that and then, wait a second, ive been ruminating for 2 minutes and try to pull myself out of it.

The other issue I have is there were soooo many awful things that happened, that my mind will jump from one to another. Ill be ruminating about the affair, then ill address that thought, then a thought about the ex husband will hit, ill address that thought then the one night stand will show up or verbal betrayals. Its almost like playing whack a mole. Every time you hit one, another pops up

Yeah, BTDT for all of us.

The fascinating thing is there is a gap between the image in your mind and the emotion hitting. Now that you’re looking for it, you can see it right?

Triggers are weird because we say we don’t want them, but particularly in your case they are rising without even any external stimulus. You are creating your own triggers. Something inside of you really wants them.

When the next one hits, hopefully not for a little while, try to put your mind eye on what you’re feeling inside your body. Feel your heart rate go up, maybe an adrenaline response, something weird in the stomach or whatever. Really staring into it And see what it’s doing inside of you. That feeling is the pure, raw emotion.

When we say feel the feels, at its most basic it is feeling what’s just going on in your body. Everything else is mind stuff.

So…what do you feel when a trigger hits?

I’m sorry you are struggling. Hoping I can help.

First year of reconciliation I’d have a meltdown or go down the trial attorney path as I called it and ask questions. Often the same questions.

By year 2 I realized I had to stop. I could not continue to ask these questions over and over. But it was my brain’s way of processing the trauma.

Third year of R I realized I had to heal myself. So I did. By the beginning of year 3 I wasn’t asking questions but I’d have 3-5 rage episodes a year. I would just let him have it — unleashed pent up anger. By end of year 5 that stopped too.

Here are my tips. First I decided that I had to let go of the past. No matter what came up, I could not allow myself to act on it every time. I can tell you every song on the radio from the time of his affair as an example. Now I hear those songs and it’s a fleeting moment - but I don’t allow myself to linger in the feeling for more than a few seconds.

Just recently I posted about meeting a colleague of my H’s for dinner and as soon as I walked into the restaurant I was struck by how much this woman looked like the OW. I shook it off and had a very pleasant evening. She was so fun. But really could have been the OW’s sister.

I made a conscious effort every day in NOT allowing the affair to control or be my focus each day. Every second I think of the affair I lose the time that I could have been happy focused on something unpleasant.

We are nearing 13 years from his affair and yes, I think of it. But I don’t let it consume me or ruin my day. I know that is what the OW is hoping for but it no longer seems important enough to dwell on.

Could my H cheat again? Yes he could. Would I be hurt? Yes. But not devastated. And that’s the difference. I would know what to expect and would deal with it accordingly.

You have a choice. You can let this control your life every OR you can shut down the negative thoughts and stop looking in the rear view mirror. When you can shake it off and re-direct your thoughts, you will know you are on the right healing path.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:24 PM, Monday, January 5th]

TheBetrayedHusband

However, about once every month ill get triggered so hard that we will have a large verbal argument. Which typically includes me rehashing what she did, how much it hurts me every day and how conflicted I am about our relationship. The triggers can vary, sometimes its awful images flashing in my head, resentment surfacing, something she says that reminds me unintentionally or an array of things.

My mind is very conflicted all the time, my logical mind and my heart are always fighting.

My logical mind says (Run for the hills, if she did that repeatedly she could do it again.) Even though she's showing every effort now, if it happened before the cycle could repeat.

My heart says (You love her more than anyone in this world and you do not want to live without her. Keep trying, keep pushing through. Shes putting in the work.)

These arguments typically last hours, are emotionally draining for both of us and typically ends with us both crying. Her out of the extreme shame and me due to the hurt I feel for what she did to me. We will talk for hours before that typically, she is open and honest, but it doesnt seem to really help me or her in the long run. But im having trouble getting these to stop. I can hold the flood waters back for a while, but after a few weeks it knocks me over and we end up having another argument.

I think we are stuck in a similar cycle. Mine isn't quite once a month. Probably more like every 6-8 weeks. But when we do fight it is intense and lasts for hours. It's extremely draining for both of us. It often ends with her shame spiraling, and me trying to comfort her. It usually takes 3 or more days to recover from.

I am also a shell of my former self - at least I feel like that most days. I would not say I was a confident over achiever, but I am a lot less productive, less motivated, and have a hard time doing hobbies I used to find rewarding. I too feel like I am a very different person than pre D-day. I don't know if thats a good thing or not.

My wife has also been doing many things right in the last year. She is making progress and getting better all the time. Very slowly, but still upward progress.

====================

A couple of things I've noticed in our case that might be true for you.

1. It takes two people to argue. In my case, my wife often refuses to take full responsibility for her affair, and blames me or other things. Her continuing to shift the conversation to the things she blames her affair on, or the ways we "had a bad marriage", is a huge part of the reasons we fight. Yes I get triggered, and my triggers do cause fights sometimes. But the vast majority of it is caused by her warped affair thinking IMHO.

What is your wife doing when you fight? My wife is extremely defensive to anything that sounds at all like criticism. She goes right into blame deflectors up captain! And if our fight lasts long enough for her shields to drop, then it's right into the shame spiral nebula.

Something could be happening there to feed this cycle in your case as well.

2. I've noticed that my wife and I don't communicate about the affair very often. She is often too busy, sick, or emotionally fragile, and so I go into protect her mode, and into prevent fight mode (protect me mode), and I stop communicating. This is a bad habit I'm trying to break. However the effects are that the emotions build up in each of us until something causes us to fight (about something relatively small usually), and that is the proverbial crack in the dam that unleashes the torrent of emotions that has been building up since the last fight.

Maybe in your case something similar is going on where things are being left un-said, which is causing pressure to build. Maybe it's not the triggers themselves, but what they are unleashing that is the problem.

Are there things going unsaid like in my case?

My mind is very conflicted all the time, my logical mind and my heart are always fighting.

I understand this part especially well. I imagine every BS goes through this.

Beth Fischer says that when the person you never thought would betray you does, they become a danger. Usually not a physical danger, but the part of the brain that protects you from physical danger doesn't know the difference. Danger is danger. So your brain remains in fight or flight mode whenever the old danger presents itself. Which for people trying to reconcile is all the time since the danger is the person they are trying to reconcile with.

She says that the mind will not be able to calm down until the danger is past. If reconciliation is the goal, then the wayward spouse needs to change into someone your brain no longer identifies as dangerous. It is your responsibility to work through triggers and "mind movies", but it is hers to do this kind of changing.

I think she is spot on here. We are in pain because the parts of our brain designed to protect us from harm are working properly.

I watched a podcast on YouTube from two formerly wayward men. It was called "Ask the Unfaithful". They had a bunch of episodes, but I watched the one on communication styles. They described my style to a T when I was triggered. And they described my WH’s style as well when I use that style.

Four styles - aggressive, passive-submissive, passive-aggressive, and manipulative.

None of these styles helped us move forward. Instead, our discussions went in circles, covering the same ground over and over. Why? Because I would go at him, he would retreat, and nothing was ever achieved.

Once I realized what this cycle was, we both talked about this when nobody was upset or angry. Just a normal conversation about our cycle, our styles, and guess what happened!

We made progress.

He now comes and talks to me about what he is reading or watching on infidelity, what he learned, offers more into the conversation. And I am able to be calmer in response BECAUSE I have learned what this looks like from his side, why he reacted the way he did, and have made a very conscious choice on how to say what I need to say.

I ask one question as a topic if I am triggered. One. This limits us to much shorter conversations on the affair, reduces his stress, and now he knows we will not be doing a "blame and shame marathon" - because I made this simple change.

One question only. It also helps me to focus on what the thing is that actually triggered me, or what my "greatest concern in the world" is at the moment I begging spiraling down.

Hello TheEvent,

Thanks to you and all the others that have posted their stories and information. I truly feel for you in your situation. I know exactly what this is like and I dont wish it on my worst enemy. Here are some answers to your questions TheEvent.

What is your wife doing when you fight?

She first tries to be comforting, she tries to do the right things. She acts remorseful and in my case she owns the behavior. We try to talk, ill ask questions on why and how could this happen or a detail that nags at me that i need clarification on. Then ill end up getting a small piece of information that sends me over the edge. I know and have seen so much about this that I shouldn't want more information. But inevitability a small detail will come out and then I get even more upset.

Ultimately when I get to this point, i wanna argue with her. Its sad, I know. I know it doesnt do any good, my logical mind says, dont bother, it will only make things worse. But I have this major buildup of disgust, sadness, anger, betrayal. It has no where to go. So it unleashes on her. Keep in mind, these are only verbal arguments. Just clarifying so no one gets the wrong idea here.

She has previously tried pulling the "We were having a rough patch in our marriage" with me as well as far as a reason it happened.

I was quick to correct that however, making sure she understood it all came down to her not keeping solid and healthy boundaries. We could of had the worst marriage known to man (which we didnt) and it still doesnt justify what she did nor did it cause it. Did it put her in a more susceptible state, sure. But so was I, i was in the exact same position she was. I had multiple opportunities during that timeframe where I could have cheated easily, but I chose our marriage instead, even though we had issues. My marriage was always more important to me. Still is.

The emotions build up in each of us until something causes us to fight (about something relatively small usually), and that is the proverbial crack in the dam that unleashes the torrent of emotions that has been building up since the last fight.

Maybe in your case something similar is going on where things are being left un-said, which is causing pressure to build. Maybe it's not the triggers themselves, but what they are unleashing that is the problem.

Are there things going unsaid like in my case?

This sounds all too familiar. However, For me, its not about things being left unsaid persay. We have had sooo many conversations over the last year and a few months about this. Ive left no stone unturned and have asked every question ive wanted answers to.

But I have a very overactive mind. It will latch on to something she has said in previous conversations that leads me to believe there is more to the story of whatever detail it is. (Im usually right, but thats beside the point)

At this point little details shouldnt matter. I know the full scope of what happened, I know the people involved, ive seen more messages, images, videos than most people ever get the opportunity when uncovering something like this. There's been a polygraph. The problem is I know, have read and have seen way too much. I didnt have an option, initially she wasnt honest at all. So if I wanted the truth I had to find it myself.

But during this process, I didnt think about protecting myself. How much damage seeing all of that could do to me. I was so focused on getting the full truth, that my own well being went to the wayside.

If I could do it over again or make suggestions to others in this situation. I would recommend not looking at everything. Just what was needed to confirm timelines, people and the extent of it. Then stop. It will harm you more than it will help you.

Others that dont have this level of information may think its a major advantage or I wish I had all of that in my situation so I could verify every detail. Trust me when I say, Id rather not have all of this in my brain. For your healing process its a major hindrance.

Instead of just imagining things that were said and done. You have memories of HD video, images, messages, all which were actually sent. Not a recreation in your mind that could be dismissed as such. It is a double edged sword and makes healing soooo much harder.

[This message edited by TheBetrayedHusband at 5:44 PM, Tuesday, January 6th]

I was unfortunate enough to find out because all of my husband’s messages and emails began syncing to my iPad after an update. Never happened before on any update so something weird happened.

I read all of the stuff.

It was like some bizarre need I had. I wanted to know everything.

But at the same time, my WH was not giving me the truth, he was lying, obfuscating, gaslighting, and stonewalling for a year. This lasted until I finally decided to walk out, at which point he confessed to much more than I even knew before.

So that began another year of "some" truth, extremely reluctant on his part.

So at the end of year two, I actually left for 3 weeks, told him he had to get himself lined out or there would be an end to us. He tried some new tactics, but in the end he realized that if he was to fix this, he had to stop being a damn coward.

We had many conversations but then he stopped again. And that made me begin to do what you’re doing - wave upon wave of spiraling back down.

Awhile ago, I knew this had to stop.

I had to stop yelling and freaking out. He had to stop avoiding.

So I just decided to sit down with him and talk about these issues - just our communication styles. And I forced myself to be calm.

Then I tried another topic, one that was a bit easier in the grand scheme of things. And forced myself to stay calm. No yelling. Over time, this has built some trust in me from his side, that he won’t be attacked whenever we talk.

And the cracks in his avoidance wall began to show. He would mention things, and in return I would HOLD ON and not come right back. I held those questions for next time. And this really helped me.

He then started being more willing to initiate conversations, tell me what he is reading or learning, and we talk about those things instead of the nitty details I seemed to have previously focused on.

Spirals now feel more controllable because the communication between us does not devolve into me yelling and him feeling horrible. Instead, once we were able to MUTUALLY change our approaches, things started moving in the right direction.

And strangely enough, the ruminations are reducing dramatically. I think by having completely calm and open discussions about whatever question or concern has arisen, the result is that the focus has been on facts, ideas for improvement, and for the first time, hope for recovery and a different relationship going forward.

The emotions build up in each of us until something causes us to fight (about something relatively small usually), and that is the proverbial crack in the dam that unleashes the torrent of emotions that has been building up since the last fight.

Looks like you're playing NIGYSOB (searchable).

As 5decades says, bring up an issue before it festers is the solution.