SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here's a little different take too on staying with a spouse following an A.

In some weird sort of way, I feel like I have less chance of experiencing infidelity again because we have been through this....we both KNOW what the long-term affects of this are.

I cannot say that is the case prior to d-day as I was considering an affair, he was having one.

When I entered into this marriage, I thought I knew how he felt about the commitment. Hell. I thought * knew how *I* felt about commitment - yet I still found I was reconsidering it even though I was not actually persuing an A.

So how do you really know what anyone will do if they have not yet done it? (I know this is a different kind of argument but stay with me.) Is that not kinda like saying, I don't eat asparagus - yet also never having tried it? Does that not leave you to wonder if that person really feels that way? (I know...I know - hang in here.) When we enter into a relationship, we are putting faith and trust in the character and morals that a person professes to have - but are those not both falliable (due to human nature) and changeable (due to experience - of lack thereforth of)? Aren't we as BSs now experiencing that???

Back to the asparagus -

On a simple level, which would have more merit to you:

a) Someone who doesn't eat asparagus but has never tried it?

b) Someone who doesn't eat asparagus - though they have tried it in several different dishes?

The aparagus analogy will immediately be shot down because it seems much too simple. Somehow we feel much more comfortable looking at past behavior as predictor of future behavior - but that discounts a very important aspect of human nature: the ability to make a willful decision to change based on our experiences. Not evolve (with happens naturally) - but change.

Do our experiences not shape us??? Do they not alter our perceptions? And perhaps even give us a more solid basis for our character?

In my mind, choosing infidelity a second time is much different than choosing it a first time.

Until/unless that happens, I actually feel like I now have a safeguard in place by my H. having had the experience itself.

Not a traditional viewpoint, I know.

But evolution and the ability to change and adapt is an unsubstitutable requirement for marriage. Without that, a marriage will eventually fail anyway...even without infidelity as a part of it.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 10:41 AM, August 8th (Friday)]

My marriage was a good marriage.....I thought. I knew my WH had painful issues from his childhood, but I never pushed him to talk about them much. I just knew in my heart that he loved me, and even though he had been inconsiderate and selfish many times, I just accepted ALL OF HIM with love. I knew that of all things that can go wrong in a marriage, I was certain he would never cheat.

I feel I have helped him through many of his problems, and now here I am. I am the same....smart, hard working, caring, considerate, etc. Is he different????? YES, but now I feel stuck, lost, and the feelings of growing old together do not mean anything like I used to think they did.

I do not like my life now. I don't hate it because that would force me to face "what is wrong with you". I try to take care of me more, but I feel like I have and am still "raising" my husband as if he were my child.

The exposure of his 8 month affair murdered my soul and if I could have been stronger, I would have never let him come back at that time.

I know I am just rambling on, but I am in absolute awe with a "peaceful mind" regarding all of the statements made on this thread. I love all of you for telling your truths, because it makes me understand that I am not fighting whatever my feelings are by myself, because all of the rest of you have had your souls stomped on and murdered also.

Thank you everyone for being so honest regarding this issue.

TSMF - I understand your analogy and I think it works to the point that a WS "gets it".

I don't think my WS really thinks he did anything wrong and doesn't get the damage he has done to our relationship (my fault for not pointing this out to him).

I envy those of you who have been able to share this thread with your WS.

I am so surprised at how many of you feel the same way I do (sad as it is though). I am so far out that it has been driving me crazy that I can't just move on from this (of course WH hasn't been the most helpful and OW still is a coworker - doesn't exactly help the "moving on"). Group effort for us to deal with this nasty situation!

The topic is so much needed at this time. I too am at the 4 year mark and wonder if I should be moving on.

I feel like the original wound has healed, but the major scars remain on my soul.

I don't know if I will ever trust or love someone with such niave abandon again.

This thread has made me so sad to know that its the beginning of the end. There is no future with him, no growing old, no rocking chairs on the front porch to share just one big empty black hole of unfullfilled wishes of true love and committment.

I have been soul searching for the last few weeks and this thread could not have been more timely to help me see that I need to get out and not compromise my real self in order to stay with him.

I the the Serenity Prayer says it all as someone else mentioned here.

There has got to be a better life out there and I'm placing my bets on this old horse to find it!

(((((sharim)))))

You make an excellent point...and I'm so sorry this is your experience with your husband.

My point is based on the idea that this has been a learning experience...and that WS is committed to the relationship and making efforts to demonstrate that to the BS. I realize it may take time for a WS to work through the internal brokeness that led them to make such a choice but the remorse and desire to repair the marriage should be readily and consistently present - even if they don't quite "get it" yet.

Without that, there is no "life support system" to substain the marriage for it to go through a healing...and whether it ends immediately or dies a long, slow death, it will not survive.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 11:06 AM, August 8th (Friday)]

Yeah - I often wonder if there isn't something wrong with ME: because I fell in love, it was genuine, I put everything into it, I trusted, I overlooked her flaws and faults; I saw that she wouldn't forget about my mistakes - even when they were honest mistakes (absent-mindedness, unbalanced commitments - nobody's perfect . . .) -

Is this wrong? Did I make a mistake by committing myself so fully to a relationship? Was I wrong to trust? Is this some kind of maladjustment? A product of poor upbringing?

I think this discussion has gone in ways I never could have imagined. Thank you everyone for your input. I'm very glad that what seemed to most predominant in my mind the last few months has managed to be something that seemed so necessary to others.

Like I said before I've had the chance to reconcile and been denied the chance to reconcile. In the first situation we were young. I did not have the strength to do the 180 and kick her out. I wish I had maybe/just maybe she would have grown. But I cannot and should not bear the burden of that responsibility. Our relationship was new but I was a very good partner and friend to her. Even though we did reconcile for two years the guilt finally killed it for her and she left me. I live with that still.

That relationship felt fated to me in a way no other one has. I don't like the word *soulmate* (we all know what that is code for...) but in a way I felt that my life took a turn that left me free/deprived of my own destiny. I have never been able to explain this sufficiently to anyone. People have always said if it was meant to be it would have been. But really how they know? We do have free choice after all.

That being said I'm not sure all marriages are *meant* to survive infidelity even if they *can*. This is a very personal matter for each BS in their marriage.

Despite the culture wars that are being waged at the moment as a gay person I have a very deep abiding respect for marriage. I think it is a foundational institution that is not merely about procreation and a list of federal/state rights. It is by its nature a human growing machine that promotes something essential in us. Nothing really prepares you for marriage but marriage. & Without going into any political or religious debate, which is not allowed and is unnecessary, I say this so that you understand my position in commenting on marriage while not being allowed to have one myself because I feel some responsibility in helping to create this discussion. (But yes I am for marriage equality.)

And with that being my position I feel that marriage isn't to be trifled with or broken easily by those who enter.

For those of you who haven't left your marriages but wonder how it is with someone else I can say this. yes you carry the wounds with you to someone who wasn't necessarily there and doesn't know your suffering as intimately. The grass isn't immensely greener but it sure smells better. However the stink kinda follows you like that poop you got on your shoe last summer.

I'm still skiddish & triggery in ways I really wasn't before. I have to talk to my gf about things I really don't want to talk about. I feel vulnerable and weak and high strung. It feels unattractive. I do not feel nearly as worthy of being loved and question all the time deep in my heart if I really am loved truly. I have a hard time feeling it.

But it has only been two years for me and I'm still healing. I just know that I would rather do my healing with my gf now than with the one who had the affair. I may no longer have the innocence I could have had if I had remained unbetrayed but for now my relationship actually does.

My point is based on the idea that this has been a learning experience...and that WS is committed to the relationship and making efforts to demonstrate that to the BS. I realize it may take time for a WS to work through the internal brokeness that led them to make such a choice but the remorse and desire to repair the marriage should be readily and consistently present - even if they don't quite "get it" yet.

I hope this is right because it's where I'm taking my chances this time. I'm willing to risk it, because even though the process seems slow (by my timetable) I think she's "getting it" and I heal just a little bit every time I see her "get" something/anything.

I've had a really good couple of days. Yesterday was one of those times where I believe a corner was turned.

It opened the door to bring up this concept:

Maybe the answer (or the avoidance of the problem) is in the continuing to talk about it. Maybe infidelity is something that you never "get over" but instead something that you agree to now face together - for the rest of your life.

We had a short but quality discussion on her (FWWs') insecurities in the R.

The biggie, it didn't ruin the evening.

[This message edited by plesk3yl at 1:30 PM, August 8th (Friday)]

Somehow we feel much more comfortable looking at past behavior as predictor of future behavior - but that discounts a very important aspect of human nature: the ability to make a willful decision to change based on our experiences

Funny, I didn't do that before I married him. He was a commitment-phobe. We dated for 5 1/2 years before we got engaged. He saw other women when I had already committed to him... I knew that sometimes, and probably didn't know about a whole lot of others.

But when he promised everything he did to me on our wedding day, I put past behavior behind me, taking faith in the fact that he HAD changed, by simple virtue of making the conscious decision to change and commit and marry. 15 years later, he made another change to go back to his old ways. Now he's back to 100% committed.

How can anyone NOT think, "ok how long is this 'change' going to last?"

So apparently my H ate the asparagus, liked it, but didn't tell anyone, even made a point to tell me that he DIDN'T like it. Then went ahead and ate it behind my back, whenever I wouldn't know and making a huge show of how much he hated it if I cooked it for myself. The one day he admits to me that he actually liked asparagus all those years, but because it gave him a tummy ache after eating so much of it, he decided he doesn't like it any more....

again, back to the "how long before he thinks... well, I USED to like it...."

He has told me he doesn't want another any more. But he hasn't told me that he can't or it will kill him. It needs to be like being allergic to penicillin, one dose and you're dead kind of situation.

For instance, I'm now allergice to shellfish. Used to love it. Now I won't even go to seafood restaurants or sit next to someone eating shrimp or lobster. I don't even eat regular fish unless it's tuna in a can.

Now in this analogy, the shellfish can't sweet talk me into eating it. If it could get up off the plate and wave itself under my nose, all the while whispering sweetly in my ear "remember how good it was, how much you liked it, the rush of it as the lobster and butter melted in your mouth..." I might have a tougher time.

My first post after lurking for 3 years! This site saved my sanity, my health and maybe my marriage. I finally took a deep breath and decided to register, because this topic has spoken to me in ways that I didn't think anyone else could ever understand. Even chose my user name based on this thread and how it is making me realize the depth of the frustration. Many of you I feel like I know because I have lurked for so long and found similarity in your situations compared to mine. Thank you all for your words here and elsewhere. I hope to contribute some here and there as I can.

Your analogy brings up additional considerations, weepy....consequences - and we can see how importantly consequences play into our lure back into a certain behavior.

But also don't let the point be missed.

It's really not about whether your H. "likes asparagus" or not. What it is about is that if he chooses to eat asparagus again - the same as if you chose to eat shellfish again - you know he is doing it from a position of knowledge based on experience. He is, at that point, showing you his real feelings regarding asparagus.

It's not that the asparagus is the affair itself...it represents the fallout to the marriage and the BS. If a WS can experience that (and it is IMO part of our responsibility as BS to show that) and choose to still eat it again...that changes the perspective. I have a completely different problem on my hand than just infidelity, kwim?

The biggie, it didn't ruin the evening.

plesk3yl ~

I think those times were some of the most healing moments for both of us.

((((pentup)))) - welcome! I'm glad you decided to post.

welcome, pentup

ho lee crap pentup... welcome to posting...

i can't begin to imagine being quiet for that long... which i'm sure comes as nosurprise from me if you've lurked that long

My XH cheated on me for the first (?) time after 16 years of marriage. The A lasted about a year. I waited patiently but with a lot of pain the A to end. I never thought I would have such pain again, we reconcile and had another 14 years of a very good marriage. I had forgiven and forgotten. The second time was very similar, a typical mid life crisis, I thought we would save our marriage until one day rage took over me and I kicked him out telling him all hurtful nasty things you can imagine. It has been three years since we divorced and the second time has been sooo much more difficult.

I often think it would have been better to divorce the first time, I was still young. But I don´t regret the good 16 years after his A. Right now I know there is no possibility for reconciliation, we have hurt each other too much. But I will always miss the dream of both of us together in our old age. It is terribly sad and also very difficult to accept the end of my life dream.

It is terribly sad and also very difficult to accept the end of my life dream

yes it is and I still suffer with it as well even though I only had 3 years with my ex. I has been very painful to get past.. in fact I really haven't totally although I've long ago accepted it.

Please no more asparagus and shellfish analogies.

I'm a guy and it's confusing.

Hell I'm a lesbian and it's confusing..

what *exactly* are we talking about????

I am still hurt by my ex gf from 20 years ago cheating on me.

I was a crappy bf, (I was determined to finish school, and not let the relationship or her pregnancy derail that - and so I couldn't really meet her expectations) - but that wasn't an excuse for her to cheat.

She should have been honest enough to dump me and then move on.

And that still hurts. And it has stained every relationship I've had since then.

I was driving home to day and something came on the radio that was a big trigger and i started to spiral. I'm of the opinion that my ws needs to know when this happens, preferably while it is happening. He gets on the phone and talks with me, hears what I have to say, and comes back with a "we can work this through, we can find a plan and put it into action. You are not alone." This actually has an impact on me because it is one more way I know he takes ownership for his behavior.

I was talking to him the other day and said "what worries me is how long you lied and lived a double life. Your brain has been conditioned to accept this kind of behavior - it's like muscle memory - you'll cheat again." He said "there is another kind of muscle memory. The one that keeps you from repeatedly putting your hand on a hot stove."

On dday, my marriage was dead - gone forever. I was also forever changed. So, now what? Today I am choosing to stay because I believe he won't do this again any more than he will place his hand on a hot burner. My challenge is the one I have struggled with all my life - forgiving those who have harmed me. In a weird, cosmic, spiritual kind of way, forgiving my ws seems like the next step in my own growth and evolution.

I don't know if I'll be with him 1 or 2 or 3 years from now. But I do know I won't carry bitterness or anger. As I said, I have been forever changed - a broken piece is deep inside. Despite this, it is still my life to live and to make of it what I will. For myself, this will require me to forgive (not necessarily forget) and I am learning how. It's about time for me to do this. I cannot keep walking away from people who cause harm and pretending that "out of sight, out of mind". In the case of infidelity, the damage is so massive, that I am determined to leave no stone unturned in my own healing.

This is rambling, but these are emerging thoughts....

I get the asparagus/shellfish analogy (it's not all that confusing). He's tried it and he knows he doesn't want to eat it again (because it caused severe unpleasantness for him--kind of like cabbage ). Rather than he thinks he doesn't like asparagus/shellfish (but doesn't actually know because he hasn't ever tried it) but secretly wonders about it--wonders if it's good. And faced with asparagus/shellfish that was all dressed up nice and pretty, hiding the yuckiness...he could manage to take a small bite--just to see if he really doesn't like it (because he never really knew from experience). And before he knows it, he's saying, "I DO like asparagus/shellfish! I LIKE how I feel when I eat asparagus/shellfish. I'm going to eat asparugus/shellfish again today."

Until he gets caught and goes through the unpleasantness and actually becomes someone who KNOWS he won't be eating that because he KNOWS what happens when he does--and it's just not worth it...it's not THAT good.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 9:51 PM, August 9th (Saturday)]