SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I can (and have, and will continue to) come up with many reasons for the affair---not excuses, but true reasons. Despite this, the overriding reason must be because I wanted to do it, right? I mean, it doesn't really come down to anything else---somehow, some way, a part of me wanted an EMR with another person; I did it despite knowing the pain and destruction it would cause my BS, our families & friends, and myself. That being the case, doesn't that make me simply a "bad" person?

It wasn't an "accident," like getting drunk and having a ONS. It wasn't an affair borne out of the pain and anger of a bad marriage (it was actually a very good marriage, and I was happy). It was pure selfishness and entitlement at the expense of others. Does this not fit the definition of evil? Deliberately doing something one knows to be wrong, over and over again, with very little regard to right & wrong (i.e. I did of course know it was wrong, "but did it anyway").

NO

I could wake up one day and do incredibly evil things too, but I am not an evil person.

Some people are evil though because they continue to do bad things to other people without remorse (or caring).

My gold-digger ex is a prime example of an evil manipulative person.

Why don't you ask a different question on the same topic:

Do I want to be / act evil from here on out?

People can change.

Hopefully you BH can see that too someday.

But you need to be seen to be doing the hard work at finding out WHY you did those things and fixing yourself. But you need to do that without any guarantees from our BH, he needs you to be seen to do that for yourself!

If you are wanting guarantees when fixing yourself then it could possibly be seen as a manipulation by you to get what you want again (not losing BH).

Good luck,

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 6:28 PM, March 18th (Thursday)]

Here's what I think is the perfect definition of evil:

Doing something wrong (mean, nasty, selfish) just because you can

Yes, what we WS did was mean, nasty, selfish, wrong. But I don't think we did it just because we could. We did it because we felt entitled, had low self-esteem, because of our FOO issues, because we wanted the ego stroke or a combination of all of the above, but not, I think, just because we could. We were broken. An evil person isn't broken, I don't think. They do what they do because they can.

heartbroken -

Consider this...

My Mantra

I made a terrible decision which caused more pain than I can possibly imagine and has no possible justification.

I am accepting responsibility for the A and everything it has done. But I am also forgiving myself, knowing each day I give pure and total love to my family will be my sign that I am defined as a man of integrity and honor.

We all choose who we are each day. It's not just about who you have been, but who you will commit to be going forward.

And I'm turning this one over to my 7yo son. (AKA... outta the mouths of babes... not discussing your post with him)

HIS definition of evil:

"Evil people LOVE hurting others, it makes them happy the way that birthdays and snowboarding and christmas makes me happy. You can't make them see what they did was wrong, because it wasn't wrong for them, and they don't care if it's wrong for anyone else, they're the only ones who matter to them."

I have never found a better definition.

In psychology speak his definition of evil would be a person who is both a sadist and a psychopath (true sadist, like torturers, not like bdsm).

Doing something you know to be wrong would disqualify from his definition of evil, as would any feeling of remorse or any attempt to change a pattern of thought or behavior. Adding all three of them together would seem to point rather strongly in the opposite direction from "evil".

But then again, you know you best. Under his definition; Do you qualify?

CC

>^..^<

CC, Your son is a genius.

I keep going round in circles on this too. The definitions of cruel and evil are different, but the two things often appear together.

My BH thinks I was evil, and he has not seen enough proof, despite my efforts and declarations, that I am no longer so.

We are stagnant and are essentially separated. Because of work it has not been completely obvious, but I think people are beginning to suspect.

Some people can not overcome infidelity. I wish we had made a decision earlier and we would have wasted less years. Perhaps we could have both started new lives instead of living in this coffin.

I see that like me, you do love your BH. Sometimes it is not enough.

The only thing we can do is correct ourselves, without giving up, and hope that we can work things out. We are 3.5 years out.

Clarrissa could have written my post. There is this sense of entitlement that because something bad happened to us (mine was FOO to the nth degree) we have carte blanche to "make it right".

Whatever your reasons or justifications for doing it, would you do it again? Would you give yourself that same permission? I don't think evil learns, it just learns to be evil in new ways.

Yes.Get over yourself.

Meadhbh, despite the fact that you obviously think this is an attention-seeking post in an attempt at reassurance, it's actually a real question based on the self-examination and insight I'm trying to gain in order to change my life. But thank you for the honest first part of your answer!

Meadhbh...

The forum description is really clear, please post within the guidelines.

Other then like Mother Theresa....I dont think that there is a single person on this earth NOT capable of making a bad decision.

I dont think your evil for your bad decision because you are trying to right your wrong and become a better person for it.

If you were on this site and saying things like 'I enjoyed causing my BS pain' then i think it would be a different story.

I do believe evil can be used to describe a WS who trickle truthed their BS, broke NC and/or continued their affair(s). Their continued disregard for their BS's feelings and the continued pain inflicted would definitely be considered evil in my book. Now, does this mean they are evil all the time? Of course not. However, they've clearly shown the depth of how evil they can be and for the most selfish of reasons.

Evil is the word my H used at our second dday. He said I have been evil, you might as well get rid of me" He had done some really evil things, but i dont consider him evil. Evil would have been to do it to intentionally ruin me, unfortunately "I" wasnt even no where in the thought process.

[This message edited by srb1608 at 9:31 AM, March 19th (Friday)]

Ahh. Good that you are trying to figure this out, but it is more 'temptation' than evil.

I think it was St Augustine that pondered the draw to evil after analyzing his behavior. He talked about an experience where he and his buddies as teens, went to a neighbors orchard and has one hell of a time destroying it. Why? What purpose did it serve? How could it have seemed like fun and was in fact fun?

The draw to temptation is within us all.

We are not evil. But evil does exist. Sometimes it doesn't take away our blessings, but it might as well since it keeps us from enjoying them and being grateful to them.

Most men usually don't analyze or dwell on the possible consequences according to psychology. When the guilty conscience starts to nag, it is easier to push it away and focus on the 'fun' the temptation is providing.

Good for you for working on yourself like this.

hb0903,

We see ourselves as we want to see us: in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is: Evil, Conniving, Selfish, Thoughless, Egotistical, Cold-Hearted, Calculating, A Liar, Deceiving, Proud, Entitled, Cruel, Heartless, and Cowardly.

This IS..."The Wayward Club"

But can we say, by virtue of us being here, working on it, that we are Good, Thoughtful, Reflective, Remorseful, Regretful, Honest, Humble, Helpful, Selfless, Healing, Growing, Learning, and becoming better people and better spouses.

Wayward yes, but more hopeful. Let's hope.