SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You have to decide if you can live with the things that your BS is going to say and do through the long haul.

It's more than just a week. It‘s more than just 3 months. It‘s more than 1 year. It‘s more than 2 years. It's 2-5 years. It’s 2-5 years from the total complete truth. The clock doesn’t start with discovery. The clock doesn’t start when the Affair ended. The clock only starts when there is no more TT. The clock only starts when there are no more secrets. The clock starts over every time another lie is discovered.

(This may not apply to some BSes… )

Your BS is going to go round after round in a ring of pain. Their reaction to you is going to change like the weather in Indiana. (Wait 5 minutes and the weather will change.)

It's going to be

"I love you."

"I hate you."

“I don’t want to love you.”

“I hate that I love you.”

“I hate you.”

“I might love you.”

"I'm indifferent to you."

“I want to be indifferent to you.”

It's going to be:

"Tell me again."

"I can't believe anything you tell me."

"I don't want to hear a word you say."

"Tell me again."

It's going to be:

"I don't trust you."

"I don't want to trust you."

"I can't trust you."

"I might trust you."

"I don't trust you."

It's going to be:

"You are a cheater."

"You are @$%@$%."

"You *insert whatever*"

More often than not, whatever you say or do is going to taken wrong, disbelieved, or seen through a lens of betrayal.

It's pain and anger. It has to go somewhere and you have to be able to understand that you caused the pain and anger by your actions. You have to understand and accept that your BS is going to grieve. You have murdered your marriage. You have killed the person that your spouse thought you were.

Usually when a person goes through the cycle of grief, the person that they are grieving is dead... We (WSes) are not dead, we are ghosts that constantly haunt our BSes.

Grief includes so many emotions that roll through and around, repeating. The grieving person will go through the all of the emotions more than once as they work through their grief. The feelings of grief overlap each other in a confusing maelstrom that overwhelms everything…

All of the “Grief Work” takes time… How much time??? As long as it takes. There is no right or wrong amount of time. Each person goes through these feelings at their own pace, it can’t be rushed, there is no magic wand. All you can do is stand next to your BS and be there. Accept the natural process. Respect the natural reaction to your act of betrayal, destruction and murder. This isn’t something that you can fix for your BS. This isn’t something that you can control. All you can control is your reaction to their grief.

Don’t be defensive. Don’t argue that their feelings are “not right” or “not how they should feel”. There is no right or wrong way to grieve.

Google grief, how to support someone that is grieving.

Thank you wincings_sparkle. You touched on so many relevant things and incorporated them so well. This won't be so well written but I sincerely appreciate your post and laud your understanding. It helps my sanity and reality:)

Yes, this is so true . I am struggling with all the above but at least ww " gets it ". Thanks for a great post mate.

You have to decide if you can live with the things that your BS is going to say and do through the long haul.

I actually disagree with this. Reconciliation is a process and as true with every process is open to be evaluated and re-evaluated every step of the way by all participants.

If a WS's BS goes off the charts with rage and abuse drawing healthy boundaries is imperative.

Grieving is not something just a BS experiences. A WS lost themselves, what they valued, what their self worth was. All those things have to be grieved as well.

All the things you listed with the exception of the cheater part a WS may feel and experience. We're human too.

That doesn't let us off the hook in any way shape or form from accountability and responsibility...two things that most WS's that have been on this site know and demonstrate very well on a daily basis.

I know because I've learned from the best of them

[This message edited by uncertainone at 3:25 PM, September 6th (Monday)]

Criminy Uncertain I hate it when you make me be all explain-y.

Reconciliation is a process and as true with every process is open to be evaluated and re-evaluated every step of the way by all participants.

Right: You have to decide if you can live with...

If a WS's BS goes off the charts with rage and abuse drawing healthy boundaries is imperative.

Right: You have to decide if you can live with...

Grieving is not something just a BS experiences. A WS lost themselves, what they valued, what their self worth was. All those things have to be grieved as well.

Yes we (WSes) do have grief... The caveat is that a WS caused their own grief. They inflicted this pain on themselves. I inflicted my pain on myself. I slit my own wrists, I killed my marriage and I killed who I thought I was. That is something that I had to work out myself. I had to do it myself. How hateful would it have been of me to expect my BH to help me fix myself when he was doing everything he could to bind up his own wounds?

We're human too.

That doesn't let us off the hook in any way shape or form from accountability and responsibility...two things that most WS's that have been on this site know and demonstrate very well on a daily basis.

No, I wasn't letting anyone off the hook from accountability or responsibility. I wasn't saying "Take it when your BS wants to beat you with a baseball bat."

Look, if you understand Grief, the process of grief, what caused the grief and the symptoms of grief. You have a better idea of what is coming. You have a better idea of how to handle that internally (within yourself).

AND how not to be a

BS here..

your post is very true.

And believe me, the rollercoaster ride is pure misery.

Criminy Uncertain I hate it when you make me be all explain-y.

Really don't appreciate the tone and you don't have to explain.

I get it. I just don't agree with it.

You've posted in detail on your profile the stuggles and pitfalls you went through in your process of reconciliation. Going through something like that gives a depth and perspective others don't have.

Sharing how you overcame those pitfalls and offering support to the new WS's that come here in horror over their actions and reeling at the knowledge they could create the kind of hurt on someone they loved is such a gift.

This forum as so many posts about what your BS spouse is going through and how WS's need to react and support and help heal that when they're all bumped for newbies it just about kicks every thread to the next page.

I stand by my post. I don't often post to you as we are often on different pages and everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

Thank you once again wincings_sparkle. I fear I've gotten lost or gone mad sometimes explaining what I think is so very obvious.

uncertainone...i do not believe that wincings meant to offend you, i believe her words were said with a playful smile and not an attitude...the word criminy is a silly word, not a fighting word...

and yes she did have to explain, because that is what we do here, we explain our pov's, our different perceptions, it is how we learn and it is how we grow...and most importantly it is how we heal...

and we all, bs's and ws's alike need to heal...

her post is spot on....you decide if you can deal with it...and then DO IT....

no matter your pain as the ws, as the ws you caused it...you chose the behavior..

you the ws put the relationship in the ditch, it is up to you the ws to put it back on track for as long as it takes with whatever it takes...

you know what, i am wrong, she doesn't have to explain, but it is good that she did..

iwantamiracle...

Uncertainone is entitled to interpet Wincings words however she feels...they were pointed directly at Uncertainone.

Please let them work things out.

IWAM, I'm quite certain I didn't misread the tone. Not the first time it's been used.

I don't agree with the post and made my points.

You don't have to agree with my points. I have no problems with that.

you the ws put the relationship in the ditch, it is up to you the ws to put it back on track for as long as it takes with whatever it takes...

I don't agree with this. Every marriage is different and the path to the ditch is seldom solitary. I realize on this site that's the popular view and I respect that and rarely post disagreeing with that because of the emotions and pain the BS's feel, but this post was not in General.

This forum is the only forum on this site that WS's can come for help, support, to be honest with their feelings and their struggles whether their choice or path is to reconcile or not.

You can heal by using a different path. I feel accountability is crucial for all parties.

One thing that is never in doubt is there is no excuse or justification for an affair.

I fail to see any contradiction between WS and UO posts.

[This message edited by Lost68 at 6:52 PM, September 6th (Monday)]

Hi,

I'm a BS. I'm cautiously throwing my two cents in here because this

Every marriage is different and the path to the ditch is seldom solitary.

really struck a chord with me. I agree with this, and because every marriage is different, every affair is different, and the fallout is different. To me, this relates to an aphorism I see here a lot about each partner being 50% responsible for the problems in the marriage. It sets my teeth on edge every time I see that, because it's not realistic. Each person is responsible for his or her share of the problems, but that's seldom 50-50. It could be 60-40, 70-30, or 90-10. It varies from marriage to marriage. And I believe it must and does make an impact on how people are affected by an affair, and whether or not reconciliation is going to happen.

I'll try to explain what I mean with two examples I have personal knowledge about: Mine and my brother's.

In my situation, I was a very responsible and well-behaved SO. I did not spend money on foolish or selfish things, I maintained a house inside and out and did the majority of the housework due to her physical problems. I took her with my when I went out, and took her on dates regularly. Certainly I have my faults, and did and said things I shouldn't have, but all in all I was pretty much what she claimed she wanted in a man. Yet she was always bothered by or angry about something. If I addressed it, she simply became bothered by or angry about something else. I now know that I was dealing with a mentally ill person who cannot be happy. The same counselor who diagnosed her illness told me that the problems in our relationship were 20% me and 80% her. When she cheated, I was absolutely devastated, and ultimately decided that her infidelity on top of everything else was simply too much. I left.

My brother and his wife had very much a 50-50 marriage. They both say they contributed equally to the marriage, parenting, finances, and problems. They both cheated. They separated for a month, got back together and essentially decided that they were even, and they were going to put it behind them and move on. They did. They did some MC to learn how to address their problems better, but they both seem to have shrugged their mutual betrayals off and moved forward as a team.

This is another random thread I picked to read and thought halfway through "note to self: call lawyer first thing and tell BH I'm out."

Glad to see the tone change halfway through to feed my Hope Sliver.

The problem is that the initial pre-supposes stuff like‘s "it's more than 1 year. It‘s more than 2 years. It's 2-5 years" (in law, it's called assuming a fact not in evidence) and then "decide if you can live with it."

Well, that's easy. No.

All you can do is stand next to your BS and be there.

I don't agree with this AT ALL. I think there is a LOT of stuff the WS can do to help their BS through their pain. And I mean DO, as in take action, as in not stand there.

Seems to me that a BS can CHOOSE to focus on their grief and betrayal as an excuse for not looking at their part in driving the truck into the ditch and fixing that part.

And I have to think that if you are 2, 3, 4, 5 years out, that's a choice.

Seems to me a WS can CHOOSE to focus on their guilt and remorse as an excuse for not doing the work necessary to repair themselves because hey, they had an affair so they are irreparable.

OR, the couple can CHOOSE to devote their energy to fixing their respective parts in the marital disaster and create something better.

I'm not saying remorse and grief don't have their place. But let's don't get carried away in either direction -- taking them to the extreme on either side is simply self indulgent. We've all got lives to live. The point is to deal with the mess we've made, learn from it, and go live our lives as better, wiser, more conscious beings.

Sin is easy. Dwelling on sin is also easy. Redemption is hard. This forum is, to me, about the path to redemption.

Maybe my view here is colored by the fact that I am 50 and the idea of dealing with this for five years is a total non-starter plus with three teenagers I have an extremely low tolerance level for drama.

How hateful would it have been of me to expect my BH to help me fix myself when he was doing everything he could to bind up his own wounds?

It's interesting you say that. I'm struggling with the decision tree of whether to tell my H a few things about me. Actually, I'm at the point of thinking about introducing myself to him after being together for 35 years, "Hi, I'm hopefulwife. I think we met when I was fifteen in 1976 -- do you remember me?"

I'm developing sort of a bright line test for honesty. If a WS wants or needs their BS's help to fix themselves, I think they should tell them. Helping others is almost always healing, and that is as true for a BS as anyone. And who better to help?

I agree with uncertainone. BSes aren't the only ones who grieve after dday. Remorseful WSes do too. Your psyche doesn't care if you caused the pain or were the wronged person, because your psyche doesn't reason- it feels and reacts.

Merging the emotional side of grief with the intellectual recognition of our part in the pain is not an easy thing to do. It is something only the most determined WSes will put the effort into.

You can't compare pain. It all hurts and it all sucks, and when it's happening to you, it's the worst pain on the planet. Yes, I know I caused it, and that exacerbates it, but it doesn't invalidate how I feel. In order to heal their marriage, WSes must heal themselves, and part of that process is working through their own feelings of grief and loss.

My husband understood that how he responded to my efforts to do that had a huge impact on the success of our R. If he'd shown it me was hopeless and that he didn't care about the work I was doing, we wouldn't be together. I'd have been too afraid to keep trying.

This forum isn't about healing our BSes. It's here for us to heal ourselves.

Fallen - thank you so much for your post on this thread and thanks to wincings_sparkle for starting it.

We are 4 years out. Not divorced. Not separated. And definitely NOT reconciled. I don't know what we are but this thread has given me a lot of food for thought.

I claim small victories.

It's going to be

"You *insert whatever*"

Just a note to everyone going through efforts at reconciliation and healing as a WS: the above list is so true and please remember that through all of this you are worthy, you are strong, you are good.

As a BS with a remorseless now ex-WH, I have to say wincing nailed it.

IMO wincing is spot on. The rollercoaster of emotions is just that as she posted and it changes minute by minute. It's not all hopeless but not everything is rosy. And I find that as time goes by it gets less and less hopeless. It's not like the BS reaches the 5 year mark and that is when all of the pain and hurt suddenly disappear. I imagine it's a gradual process whereby at the end of x time the BS can say they've healed.

I also agree that the WS has to decide if they can take it, albeit multiple times throughout the journey. I told my WS I was going to dish it at times. If he didn't like it the door was always open for him to exit. I was not going to stuff the bad parts down just so that he doesn't runaway. It would have been detrimental to my healing. And yes, my focus was, is, and will be for some time on myself. I'm not that good of a multitasker that can work on all three things (healing the marriage, healing myself, and healing the WS).

That being said, I don't expect my WS to focus on me or the marriage but on himself. I understand there is a lot of pain on his end and it would be hypocritical of me to expect him to carry all the load when I'm not doing any of the heavy lifting. I guess my vision is to heal ourselves and then once healed, we can tackle the M together.

Idk, I guess I often agree on the wincing/WAL approach.

I don't see how one has to be wrong if the other is right. Both are right.

I think sparkle's post makes more sense when it is related to some recent posts from wincing.

And uncertainone one touches on some opinions that are true, if unpopular.

Grieving is not something just a BS experiences. A WS lost themselves, what they valued, what their self worth was. All those things have to be grieved as well.

That really hit me in the face. I'm not sure why that hasn't occurred to me before. After a killer is executed, hardly anyone attends the funeral or grieves. That's what I've done.

[This message edited by darkbeast at 7:08 AM, September 7th (Tuesday)]