SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MC went as expected...WW insists that there has been ZERO physical attraction since the beginning of the relationship, that that's why she was justified (strong words, not hers exactly) in having the affair, and that if we stay married, it'd be close to celibate.

What does she want? She wants us to stay together as best friends and raise the kids, because she was so badly hurt when her father left when she was 7. If this sounds like a different name for "Open", you'd be wrong, becasue I think in "Open", I'd at least be having sex with her too!

Don't worry, I'm not agreeing to this...

Moving forward....

1) Lawyer next Wednesday. If I post on here a little les, it's becasue I'm using computer time to document timelines, etc.

2) Related to #1..go through my old threads and print out the great advice I know is in there about this. Follow it.

3) Focus on kids. Make them feel loved and special because their world is about to get rocked.

4) No drama until March 26. That's the day she leaves for North Carolina cycling training with three other guys from the "group". Of course, previously, I never liked the idea of this trip, but NOW I am all for it! It'll give me time and space, and I will document that miss "maternal instinct" is leaving for 7 days whle I stay home work and look after the children.

4b) Considerable drama soon after March 26, when I "out" the affair while she's 1500km away, first to OBS (who's BIL - married to her sister - is on the trip - sorry Tom, you're a great guy, but you're about to be caught in the crossfire), then to OM#1 and his BS. Although I tried to contact OBS the other day, I have now decided to wait. There are no chances for contact coming up, and if I do it before her NC trip, it'd likely curtail her involvement (can you see Tom's wife, sister of BS, being okay with him going on a 7 day trip with the OW from her sister's marriage? Neither can I.)

5) Have a drafted separation agreement and/or divorce filing waiting for her on her return.

This list is subject to change over the next few days, especially as the good advive pours in. Of course, I'm not expecting it right away, as I may be the only one up at this hour.

It sounds as if you are not letting yourself be hurt by the re-writing of history as regards the zero physical attraction statement and I hope very much this is the case. It may even be that her motives for marrying were being led by her feelings as a seven-year-old, and whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for those feelings, marrying for an absent father figure and lost family years are misrepresentation at best, and I am very sorry she has short-changed you and continues to expect that status quo of security and public status. Whilst her concerns for the children may well be genuine, her lack of concern for you does belie that.

Btw. Going away for seven days does not indicate a lack of maternal instinct per se, IMO. I feel it is very healthy for an individual to realise aspects of themselves that are not tied to a role or a task such as motherhood.

Edie, I am deeply hurt by what she has said, particularly becasue she says it so forcefully in an effort to prove her point, to justify her actions. She has yet to apologize for the affair either.

I know that she loves me deeply and wants me around, but you're right, there is very little respect, despite her protestations.

I'm sure you are also right about some of her motives for marrying me. It is hard to reconcile the feeling of being used for a decade with the pride and love I have for the three children who were the result.

What I resent:

She told both MC and me that she would be willing to(no WANTS to) stay with me and raise the kids as best friends. This puts the ball back in my court..if I'm not okay with this, then I become the one who chose Divorce and broke up the family. What a load of crap!

I'm very close to being ready to move on..and I still welcome that 5% chance that filing for D, or presenting her with a separation plan, may bring her back to reality.

Feb,

That she cannot (will not) see the devastatingly hurtful effect of her remarks is why I was hoping you were able to separate from them.

But maybe you are not allowing her to see the extent of your hurt?

For me, the 180 is being very clear about a strength to survive and move forward, but does not preclude also being as clear about the extending the pain. In fact, it's clearer as it shows a resilience to grow despite such pain.

Again, simply IMO.

Oh no Edie, I let her see the extent of the pain...to me that is not breaking the 180 at all.

She is a very selfish person right now, 2 days into her 40s.

btw. just to be clear, I was not positing reasons why she married you - was just wondering, given her statements, what reasons she would give.

She does sound incredibly 'entitled'. All about rights and no responsibility.

4) No drama until March 26. That's the day she leaves for North Carolina cycling training with three other guys from the "group".

She was talking this morning about not wanting to go on this trip anymore. She said she would be jealous of me bonding with the kids...

I told her that I was planning to be jealous of her riding in the Blue Ridge mountains...

She is running scared now....

If I didn't have to work, I'd offer to take her spot on the trip. I'd suffer like hell trying to ride in those mountains, given the lack of training motivation I've had recently (for some reason)...but maybe it would get me back into cycling.

Oh well, not going to happen..but maybe I will start riding again, and just tell WW that I'm taking a few days for myself at the beginning of the summer to go to Vermont and ride the six gap challenge, Mount Ascutney and some others that I had researched FOR US.

I like your plan, Feb. You sound very composed, although I'm sure it feels anything but.

Do make a Plan B just in case she doesn't go on that trip. You know, as the marines say -- Adapt and Overcome.

She's never been sexually attracted to you? And you have three kids? Really?

WS make shit up. ANY shit up to justify their affairs and blameshift it all on the people they betrayed. That whole soliloquy was Poor Her. Her dad left. She lives in a sexless marriage. But! She will soldier forth! and make the sacrifice to Be Your Friend and raise the kids!

See how nice that sounds to her? With her in the starring role as a Good Person? I want to eat cake and fuck around while my husband raises the kids just doesn't sound as nice.

You have to realize that the great big indicator of her Not Getting It is making you the bad guy in all this. SHE CHEATED ON YOU -- you are NOT the bad guy for divorcing her. SHE broke up the family NOT you. Volley that shit right back in her court. Every. TIME.

I know that she loves me deeply and wants me around

I know you're hurting but please internalize that anyone who would behave this way does not love you deeply. Want you around? Yes. She's narcissistic. (Read up on NPDs in I Can Relate or google... maybe she's as far gone as a personality disorder, maybe not. But cheating is based in entitlement and selfishness.) Narcissistic people want supply. You're of USE to her. That's not the same thing as love.

FWIW, it took me over a year of false R to learn that painful lesson of what "love" looks like to these people. I finally got to WTF if he ever loved me, his "love" isn't good for me.

It's going to be a hard wait to March 26. Distract yourself madly. And stay strong! ((((Big hugs)))))

Thanks squiffle...

Obviously I'm only presenting my side of the story here, so she comes off looking really bad. When we do have positive interaction, I don't typically add a post or start a thread.

She does love me, but as you said, it doesn't matter that much, does it? Not sure she's quite NPD, but the tummy tuck is bugging the hell out of me (although to be fair, she's talked about it for years...never called a mole removal until now though)

6) Get off my ass and start riding my bike again. For years, she's been one of the fastest female riders in town, but always a little slower than me. She's found a way to be faster, but it ain't fair. I may not race this year, but I want to again be a super strong MTBer, cyclist. It's part of who I am.

7) (done at 4am today).."Borrow" her bank card and get an account statement from an ATM. I found out that she spent $500 on her birthday (I'm guessing tummy tuck deposit) and that she has several thousand more dollars than she told me.

Feb;

As long as they are in the Fog - don't pay any attention to what they say - Don't let it get you down.

Sure she says she has never been happy, never attracted to you, whatever....

If she said you had Purple Hair - would that make it true?

No!

Fog-speak is nothing but delirious babble. Means nothing - they don't mean 1/2 of what they say - and probably won't even remember they said it six months from now.

You are right in protecting yourself - exposing the A - and lining up your Ducks.

Sure she wants to be Best Friends... What better way to do whatever the hell she wants while having financial support from you and a built-in baby sitter. I would like to win the lottery and have my FWW agree to allowing me to have a Harem of beautiful sexy women surrounding me 24/7. But it ain't gonna happen!!!

Suggesting that she wants these things is NOT throwing the 'Ball' back in your court. Simply because what she suggests is not agreeable to you and certainly not the norm for our culture or society. It's fog-speak.

She's just throwing you a suggestion that might keep you frozen in your tracks to allow her more time to do what she wants before you finally get fed up with it.

My FWW wanted a 90-day separation. WTF? 90-days to do what? Right! See OM - Enjoy life - Fuck his brains out a few times - While I sit on the back burner waiting to see if I am WORTHY! Bullshit! Not happening.

FWW said she was not attracted to me! HA!!!

But she told her niece 2 years before the A that I was HOT and great in the bedroom department...

So which was it? Was I deplorable or attractive? obviously depends on the 'Fog Advisory'...

Why are you waiting for her to leave town to blow this thing up?

She needs a hard dose of reality - the sooner the better.

Keep in mind that 'attraction' probably has a lot to do with how she is 'treated' and less about the physical. She's got much more of her psychological buttons tied up with her father than she is aware.. at least in terms of her re-creation or need thereof... for the re-creation.

You are have the opposite effect on her than her father. It often comes down to finding her 'father' and fixing it, living it, finding a solution where she's loved by 'him'... even if 'him' is some guy.

She isn't making choices, she's being led by a 'pull'. Sad, really, because she probably isn't truly aware of it... or how to understand it, anyway.

Regarding your MIL: Remember blood runs thick.

We have seen case after case here on SI where a WS parents/family are horrified by the affair but will eventually stick with the WS. I doubt your MIL will ever condone or support the affair and she will be totally devastated that her daughter does this. She will mourn the marriage just like you two do.

BUT… when push comes to shove her one third possession of the house might play heavily in who retains it in case of divorce and how it’s handled.

This is something you should definitely mention to the lawyer as well as think how you can defuse this threat.

Regarding your WW finances and her spending a large amount on herself right now.

From your posts it sounds as if you two have more or less been living relatively separated lives for quite some time. It sounds as if you have separate social schedules (despite having a similar or common interest in biking), separate finances and separate group of friends. [NO! It does not in any way “explain” or justify her infidelity but it does indicate you two have drifted apart…]

I mention this because if it’s true then I fear your wife is free to use her money in any way she sees fit AS LONG as she pays whatever costs and invoices she has been handling.

What you need to keep in mind is that this can both be to your advantage and disadvantage. If I’m correct that things are so separate then she can’t demand joint funds pay for HER attorney. So she will have a flat tummy but a cheap attorney.

I STRONGLY suggest you send her an e-mail (so it’s documented) on the lines I suggested regarding expenses.

squiffle pretty much covered it, and Bigger much covered the MIL angle. Blood really is thicker than water.

A complete re-write of the marital history and no remorse whatsoever. Then there's the blameshifting where it doesn't matter what she does, but if you divorce her, YOU are at fault for breaking the family?

Such entitlement. Selfishness does not begin to cover it. It looks like that she's using the children as leverage to keep you in the marriage. She's banking on your strong love for your kids will allow her to be able to have her cake and eat it too. What kind of a mother is that?

She basically wants the two of you to be roommates, living in the same house, raising the kids, but leading separate sexual lives? All the while different men come and go and get to enjoy your wife's vagina and not have any responsibility?

Talk about ZERO respect for her husband. I'm quite sure you do not want to settle for being a roommate. That's not what marriage is about.

Feb

I told you way back that your WW would make concessions. She would try to negotiate a solution.

So she has told you that she’s willing to remain married IF you accept she isn’t sexually attracted to you. That’s just her first negotiating step to her solution. Once you accept that she’s hoping you accept that since she isn’t attracted you will lessen demands (and eventually relinquish them). Once you accept that she’s going to negotiate that what you don’t know won’t hurt you. Then she will go do OM.

Regarding OM. So he has dumped her… Surprise surprise! This is EXACTLY why we preach exposure. Once the heat is on OM will in 9 out of 10 cases head for the hills. You still have to expose – your wife will negotiate a new relationship with OM and he too is trying his best to make concessions to his marriage.

Feb – try to put this in a negotiation environment you can relate to. Say you are being offered an overpriced house. OK – you agree to sit down at the table and listen to the offer (MC session). The seller might make a case and SOME of the things might actually make sense. But if the seller keeps demanding a price that is a) way too high compared to market (open marriage is NOT the norm) and b) way over what you can pay (the emotional toll of sharing your wife).

At what point would you stand up from the table?

Where would you be willing to make concessions and at what point can a deal be made?

I would think the concession you would (and should) be willing to make are a) you will work at forgiving the affair, b) you will work your butt of improving the marriage. For now her concessions should be a) no more infidelities and b) she works her butt of improving the marriage.

Right now what she is offering is the equivalent of new shades and garden furniture IF you buy the house you don’t want and can’t afford.

If you stood up from such negotiations then why would you go back to the table? If the seller asked you back to haggle over the points you already refused then would you go back? Why? Why expect a different result? Personally I would refuse UNLESS I was made a better offer.

Until she reaches your price-range there is no profit or goal whatsoever in opening up negotiations.

So I suggest you cancel any further MC. Tell your wife that there really isn’t any need for MC while she isn’t committed to improving the marriage. The deal she offered is unacceptable and if that’s her TRUE perception of her reality then the marriage IS over. Repeat to her that losing her is not the way you hoped things ended but it beats sharing her. Offer her a way back but remind her that the further you get along out of infidelity the bigger the gap between you. Then START all the actions that take place in divorce – INCLUDING letting people know.

So I suggest you cancel any further MC. Tell your wife that there really isn’t any need for MC while she isn’t committed to improving the marriage. The deal she offered is unacceptable and if that’s her TRUE perception of her reality then the marriage IS over. Repeat to her that losing her is not the way you hoped things ended but it beats sharing her. Offer her a way back but remind her that the further you get along out of infidelity the bigger the gap between you. Then START all the actions that take place in divorce – INCLUDING letting people know.

Yes, absolutely.

So let's examine the state of things. She now admits to 2 As. She has zero attaction for you. She wants you to live like a monk and tend the kids while she goes out and fucks other men. (And your MC said...?)You are just getting by financially, but she has secreted $5K for cosmetic elective surgery. She is in continued contact with both OM. She wants to continue like this indefinitely, and physically restrains you when she thinks you are leaving. She has not even apologized for what she has done. BUT she loves you.

Look, no woman who is not delusional would expect any self respecting man to accept this state of affairs. For her to do this and expect you to be her best friend is utterly ridiculous. You would have a better friend in Fidel Castro.

You obviously are on the right track here. However, really, why wait until some special moment to spring it all on her. What if she doesn't go on her trip? What then? Will you live like this until you crack or she goes on another trip?

Do the following:

Take the $5K and pay down bills, or give half to her and half to your lawyer. No judge in the world will fault you for that.

Another option on the money. Use the $5K to move out and find an apartment. It is your money as well as hers.

The minute you file, the court will issue a restraining order that will prevent her from spending money on cosmtgic surgery and week long trips, so the sooner you file the better. So file ASAP. Let her know you know about the $.

If you stay, and if her highly used ass is back in your BR, move it back to the couch.

Call both BWs.

Tell the people in your group that you cannot continue with them given that your wife is sleeping with 2 of the guys. They can either form a new group with you, or stay with her, but not both.

If you do move out (and I think you should), go dark on her. Email only re the kids.

Do not offer to support her in any way, shape or form.

No more MC under these conditions. There is no M to C at this point. However, IC for you is critical.

Go back and find the collective works of bigger, wifehad5 and catwoman. Absorb what they say.

Most important, know this: there are hundreds of single, age appropriate women in your area that go to bed every night praying to meet a guy of 45 without an ounce of fat with a good job, that is stable grounded and loves his kids, who love him back. And who lets the MIL live with them. Do not let you WW's insanity (and it is that) lead you to beleive that you are less of a man, or deserved this, or other wise other than normal.

You are hoping for a miracle that will make her see the light. That miracle is her seeing your resolve and strength. Nothing else will work here.

Feb

You know, we all care about you here. So please don't take this as abuse - BUT GROW A PAIR!

Why wait until the 26th? She is just going to figure out what you are doing, act sweet and push your buttons so you do not contact the other betrayed spouses or file for D.

Now, if you need time to document timelines, confessions, gather her emails, DETAIL ALL THE FINANCES *including her secret accounts* and get that information to your lawyer, that is one thing. (Knowledge is power and given that she is going to try to hurt you as badly as possible in any D action, preparation is your friend. However...)

But we all know you do not want to reveal your wife's A's. We get that it is a source of extreme unease for you. But you are ONLY HURTING YOU AND YOUR KIDS BY NOT EXPOSING.

You need to give your MIL the facts. You need to contact the other BWs. You need to lower the boom on your WW, because she knows she has you by the scrotum and is very happy in her present situation. She will keep hurting you to her benefit and you keep letting her.

PLEASE. No man ever saved his life by being nice to the person stabbing him in the heart. You can't change her with kindness. She just spits on that. YOU HAVE TO HELP YOURSELF.

PLEASE. PLEASE. The only way you are going to find peace is to take control.

The more you wait, the harder it is going to get. What happens when she stays on the 26th instead of going to North Carolina?? It is not going to get easier...

I will keep sending strength to do what you KNOW you have to.

To add on to what reallyscrewedup7 said, this woman uses sex to manipulate you. She has already done so, remember you saying she decided to have sex with the most unattractive man in Canada (you). She knows you have been without out, while at the same time she gets to take her pleasure from OM.

Don't let her seduce you again because she's using sex to manipulate you. She uses "make up sex" to throw you off track.

[This message edited by lordmayhem at 9:27 AM, March 17th (Thursday)]