SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't have much to add that others havent nailed down already. Except to reiterarte her priorities are not you, the kids and the M. She's saying what she feels she has to to continue this fantasy land cake eating life. She doesnt want to R because she's still trying to have both.

When she wants to be married, she will be there with actions, not e-mails. Theres really not much to translate here, either she is or is not committed to you. She lost her way, and you're hoping she'll find her way back so you leave the door open and who doesnt want that. But right now I don't SEE her finding her way back. I SEE her e-mailing. She's got to want to come back and fix this, not want to come back to offer up "what ifs" or "just friends".

Until you SEE her there doing what she needs to R, she's not really there. And frankly if she's not THERE trying to R, or at least working towards it, then she's not.

Unfortunately she is playing a game, it is your move. You have a choice, but first you need to know what youre playing for. Buff says it's time for checkmate...true, but is she playing for the same thing you are? Otherwise, it's all a form of mental masturbation. Until you're both fighting for the same thing, it;s not worth the engagement.

I'm pulling for you Feb.

help...please

Maybe just reply with "help ... please" - "why and what with?"

I haven't replied yet.

it makes sense , as some have said, not to engage her.

One other thing...it'd be tough, but not impossible to cut her trip short. I agree though, if she showed up at the door it would mean something.

it makes sense , as some have said, not to engage her.

I agree completely. I was just thinking that her reply would be interesting.

Personally, I found communicating in writing offered objectivity, detachment and thinking time for each of us.

I think either outcome is going to work for you, Feb. If she does cut her trip short in spite of the difficulty, then you have a meaningful gesture from WW. If not, you get several more days to get your ducks in a row and do the necessary planning for the future. I suggest you put every moment of those days to maximum use in protecting your interests and enjoying the time with your kids.

Again, I think you're doing great. Truly.

and feb - i wanted to say, that as a woman, that "blowing up her skirt" thing is true...we want to see a guy stand up for himself, be strong and say "f you" to being a doormat.

if she sees you doing that, for real, she may be "inspired." if you are doing it for real, you may stop giving a crap about her "inspirations" and decide you want something different.

180 means you can't lose - it will either shake her up and bring her back to R or it will give you the footing you need to build a happier life.

incidentally - i never got any real action or remorse from WH until i kicked him out, then again everytime i went NC, then again when i filed for D. it's too late for me and WH, but i think he's one of those "good guy" remorseful WH's now. do it before she can do more damage if you really want a shot at R.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 6:29 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

In defense of my friend, Feb....

He got beat up pretty hard yesterday. Let's remember that this is still his Wife we are talking about...right or wrong...it is still his wife and the mother of his kid. Can we please be a little respectful of that?

New day...fresh eyes!

http://www.yourtango.com/experts/lucia/12-reasons-women-can-t-stand-nice-guys

I read the above link posted by Palerider. IMO that article has very little truth to it.

I think a lot of women might go through a bad boy phase but that is all it is...a phase.

Feb, don't go all bad boy or alpha trying to get her to see you in a new light. This isn't about you, this is about her.

A strong, confident, respectful, trustworthy man is attractive. Those qualities do not usually go along with the Bad Boy. COCKY is a lot different than confident.

OK, so she is operating at a level that avoids responsibility for her actions, and permits her to flit around the edges of reality. It's a comfy place for her to be right now, but I can't imagine a more temporarily effective strategy. She is over due for the kind of crushing dose of real life consequence that blows her fantasy world apart.

Make it real to her.

Aim for somewhere between caveman and wuss

In defense of my friend, Feb....

He got beat up pretty hard yesterday. Let's remember that this is still his Wife we are talking about...right or wrong...it is still his wife and the mother of his kid. Can we please be a little respectful of that?

Thanks jilted,

I do come on here to vent, as we all do at times, and I am only telling my side of the story, so WW doesn't look too good. Probably not too different when I talk to friends and family IRL...it's not my job to tell her side of the story.

I don't really mind though that some here at SI are hard on her, because I am obviously way to willing too give her the benefit of the doubt, so it basically balances out and brings me back to reality. In fact, I think some are using hyperbolic exaggeration just to make a point that I may be missing. If I really thought some of the things that were said were true, I would have zero interest in R.

The thing is, I can't ignore those who trash my wife...they often follow it up with what I think is very good advice.

The nice thing is, if we do R, unlike my family and close friends, none of you will have to "make nice" with her later at social events.

New day...fresh eyes

With bags under them

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 7:02 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

That is exactly it Feb. Everyone here has your back. WE love ya and hate that you are finding yourself in this position.

You are one of the good guys. A loving husband, a wonderful father and a trusting man. I think it brings out the mama bear in some of us, and the big bro in others of us (LOL) and we just hate to see you get screwed over.

Most of us have been through it, and heard all of the advice from those experienced people here and didn't want to believe it. I, myself found this place after I did the begging and pleading (which time the A took place). WE just hate to see you make the same mistakes we made, or and I think even more, we know what works and what doesn't.

I think that is why everyone is cheering for you to tell the OWS. IT works. IT wrecks the fantasy world. It makes things reality.

I encourage you to re-read in the Healing Library about how the affair is like a drug or adiction. About the fog and how the reality of a person IN an affair is not reality. While I think you realize it and that is why you hope for R so badly, you know it is not her. The only way to get her out of this crazy world she is in, and to have a hope of ever getting her back to reality is to expose, not share and begin to make boundaries. It is hard as hell, but it is honestly the only hope you have to get her to come out of the peanut butter. (Fog is not thick enough for her LOL).

We love ya and hate to see you hurting. You are such a good guy. But honey, it is time to stand up for yourself. You deserve love, honesty and respect. Period. Those aren't things you work to get . Those are things that any human being deserves. Especially from his own wife. And hon, she just isn't. Any of it.

Hug your kids, get them off to school, and I really hope you have a good (as you can ) day at work. Think. Take some time to think. Decide what you deserve. Not b/c you are superman, but b/c you are a decent, loving man who deserves so much more. It is time to take an objective step out of yourself and look at the situation.

I personally don't think she is going to come home. She is in peanut butter world and doesn't even get it that she needs to. SO, the question is what are you going to do or change to get her out of PB world? You have about 7?? days left of her on this trip. That is alot of time to change things. Move MIL in the house and move WW to the apartment, seperate the accounts, etc... (if you can't just kick her out, which I still think would have more impact). I also think you should expose. If you expose the the OMS's and the group finds out, yes, it is miserable, but you make the fantasy miserable. Less Peanut Butter. You aren't going around bashing her and taking ads in the paper to announce it, you are telling the other person involved b/c they have a right to know. Whatever happens happens.

I hope you slept well last night. You have a lot to think about. I am really sorry.

Weather Forecast for Pickens, SC

Wednesday

66 degrees

100% P.O.P

Light Rain

15mm (over 1/2 inch)

Thursday

48 degrees

100% P.O.P.

Rain

15 mm

Not really the cycling weather they drove 16 hours for..

Everyone here has your back. WE love ya and hate that you are finding yourself in this position.

You are one of the good guys. A loving husband, a wonderful father and a trusting man. I think it brings out the mama bear in some of us, and the big bro in others of us (LOL) and we just hate to see you get screwed over.

Thanks for those kind words. I certanly do feel supported here. I'm glad that you joined the chorus too Gardenmom, you have taken a lot of time to provide me with great advice and real support...it is appreciated.

I think that is why everyone is cheering for you to tell the OWS. IT works. IT wrecks the fantasy world. It makes things reality.

I think Thursday is the day. My 7 year old (that is his 7th b-day) has a hockey game in their town (less than a km from their house). I think I will be able to leave my other two at my sisters. Thursday is the "group night" so OM should be out. I plan to try to get there early, get him dressed and then talk to a hockey parent and tell him that I need to go deliver something to a friend in town, give him my cell # and ask him to keep an eye on my son.

I just printed out the email I wrote her, and a couple of others for evidence (nothing too distressing, but quite clear) to take there.

The timing seems perfect. It is late enough in the trip that it won't be too cruel to TP1 (M to S of OBS) if his wife phones him upset (as opposed to doing it the first day of the trip).

I encourage you to re-read in the Healing Library about how the affair is like a drug or adiction. About the fog and how the reality of a person IN an affair is not reality. While I think you realize it and that is why you hope for R so badly, you know it is not her. The only way to get her out of this crazy world she is in, and to have a hope of ever getting her back to reality is to expose, not share and begin to make boundaries. It is hard as hell, but it is honestly the only hope you have to get her to come out of the peanut butter. (Fog is not thick enough for her LOL).

I do know this. But it never hurts to be reminded. Thank you.

Move MIL in the house and move WW to the apartment,

No way is that happening . My MIl loves her place, and though she loves her grandchildren, she is close enough to them already.

But the problem remains...It's all well and good to say "kick her out", but how? I have asked her to leave once and she didn't. Turning it around, if she told me to leave, what do you think I would say?

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 7:54 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

If she told you to leave, I would say no way in hell. I kept my marriage vows, I am the one raising our children while you continue on with your self absorbed carrying on (phrased it more politely just for you ).

I think I would then, again, state that the only way she is coming back into the house is if she agrees to NC. Use the kids. You will not allow her to act like that around the kids. She is there mother and needs to act like one.

I realize it sounds great. My FWH wanted to come home and new, from my voice, that I was at a breaking point. So he did as I asked. I was lucky.

If SHE refuses to leave, your only option is to in house as you put it for a while. But that doesn't have to be hunky dorey. You go hard ass for that part of it.

Not mean and bullying, but no bullshit: This means:

1. No shared bedroom. SHe gets the couch. Put her clothes in a box, put the box somewhere other than the bathroom. IF you have a Masterbath, she uses the spare. Take her stuff out of the bathroom, and put it in the spare. She gets the crappy towels. She does her own laundry, her own shopping, and you don't fix dinner for her. Just you and the kids. Purposely eat out, without her, if she is home wanting to eat with you.

If you have to do an inhouse sep. I would make it legal, so that you can eventually live seperately. It will suck, but you cna't live like that in front of the kids, without them being hurt. As much as you don't want to D or S, it may be necessary to sheild your children from the fighting, drama, and whatever.

I love your plan for Thursday. I kinda thought that once you were able to sit, read and try to relax a little, that maybe your resolve would come back. It is scary. I know that. I am giving you online hugs. and support. But I think, as do so many others here, that is your next best step to take. It will be hard. Be prepared for that, and be prepared to not answer her when she emails or texts or calls upset. Let her stew. Let her deal with the results of her actions.

Hang in there. It is a long road ahead, but you don't deserve this. I am glad you are deciding you don't deserve it and are going to do something to change it. whatever that may be.

HUGS !!

Good heavens. On top of everything else, she chose to leave knowing your 7 year old has a birthday coming up? Amazing.

You are such a nice guy. I can't imagine what your WWs "side" to the story is, unless you are prepared to accept that she has been faking it for the last 11 years b/c there was very little there. I think you are experienced enough to KNOW that isn't true. A guy can tell when a women doesn't have sexual interest. Has there been a life crisis of some sort lately? Death or serious illness in the family? Job issues? The reason I ask is that there is a known mental illness that can be triggered by a serious crisis in the family, where the caregiver is so stressed and depressed that they suddenly realize that everyone around them is evil and they have wasted their life. I know this because I have been there. You want to run away from everything and you can do self destructive things. PM me if you want more info on this.

I really don't think this M is fixable, but real mental health treatment may be the only way.

If she told you to leave, I would say no way in hell.

And I will. My point is neither of us can make the other leave.

Good heavens. On top of everything else, she chose to leave knowing your 7 year old has a birthday coming up? Amazing.

He's a little upset, but it means he gets his birthday at least twice. I am planning his party for April 8, and he will have fun at his hockey game onThursday and afterwards at his cousin's for cake (born 9 years earlier to the day). I am thinking of taking all three of them to the Blue Jays home opener on Friday (haven't been to a baseball game in years)

But to be fair, when the trip was planned, she had nothing to do with it. The dates were set before they asked her, and she didn't like the idea of missing the birthday either.

I missed my mom's 70th birthday because I went on a 10 day cycling trip (in France with WW). I gave her three of her grandkids for 10 days as a present...the dates for that trip were also set in stone...by OM1 incidentally, when he was just J***....and I'm a good son.

You are such a nice guy. I can't imagine what your WWs "side" to the story is, unless you are prepared to accept that she has been faking it for the last 11 years b/c there was very little there. I think you are experienced enough to KNOW that isn't true.

Yes, but what if she now believes it is true.? Same end result, isn't it?

I think that OJ now believes he didn't kill anybody.

I think Barry Bonds believes he didn't knowingly take steroids.

I think if you tell a lie often and forcefully enough, you will believe it yourself.

Feb

I am not going to say anything about your wife. Because the reality is THIS IS ABOUT YOU. You need to heal from this betrayal. You need to figure out going forward what you need to be happy.

If I could do one thing for you, I would help you see that your marriage (as you know it) is really over. Done. Finished. She doesn't want it. You sure don't want to be the cuckold doormat that she has told you that she wants. I know you love her still *oh man how I really understand that* but that is not helping you. IT IS HURTING YOU.

You are a strong man. It is clear that you are valuable to your kids! You need to find the inner strength to act like you matter. Put yourself first. And bury this notion you have that you can save your marriage that you still hold in your heart.

Maybe you will get a new and better marriage if she come out of the fog. That would be wonderful. But maybe not.

What is FOR CERTAIN is that you and your kids will suffer if you keep doing the things that you are doing that enable her to sit on the fence.

Sending you strength to do what you know you have to do.

[This message edited by reallyscrewedup7 at 9:33 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

Feb,

Having been exactly where you are with a WW in such a fog they clearly have their head firmly planted In their ass. I want to say first and foremost, I know how hard this hurts and how difficult it is to face the emotional rollercoaster of finding the world as you once knew it being done. One thing Bigger once told me that rattled around in my brainless head those days as I built the courage you appear to be building is that YOUR marriage is DEAD!, it’s a corpse. Time to burry that one. If she can build a new one with you on your terms fine, if not fine. But to still hold the hand of the corpse and try to drag it through life with you is dysfunctional at best. Believe me I recently dug my corpse up again and tried to drag it for a couple of days. That is why the strength of all here is in keeping clear the next steps for us as we battle with that pull of what we thought we had. Keep listening to the advice from the experienced people here we are helping you not make the same mistakes we made.

Can I focus you on one of your statements:

I think Thursday is the day. My 7 year old (that is his 7th b-day) has a hockey game in their town (less than a km from their house). I think I will be able to leave my other two at my sisters. Thursday is the "group night" so OM should be out. I plan to try to get there early, get him dressed and then talk to a hockey parent and tell him that I need to go deliver something to a friend in town, give him my cell # and ask him to keep an eye on my son.

Yes! Please focus on this plan, all energy on this step. Singular Focus, Just like climbing the alps. Turn that crank, climb this one mountain, one stage at a time. Don’t waste energy responding or thinking anymore about her emails and texts. Go completely silent and focus on this climb, expose the affair! We’re here to help.

All God’s Grace

LHAP

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 8:57 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]