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About 8 months ago I made a decision to attempt R. At first it seemed like the right idea. But after a few weeks, it just seemed like fWW thought it meant it was all buried, never to be spoke about again. She would get upset if I ever brought anything up. So, I thought that if I obliged, I was being a good husband. I'd go the extra mile for the marrige. I've done that for the entire marriage and right now it just seems like I am doing all the heavy lifting and she is just sitting on the chair I am trying to carry.

Even at 19 months, I still think about the A's for a significant part of every day. Thanks to 180 and SI, I believe that I have done well, all things considered. But, I don't ever talk about it. Even when I'd like to I feel guilty about bringing anything up. I started to become resentful and it felt like I was going backwards a little. So I started asking a few tough questions. Now, I started just saying what I am thinking when I am thinking it in a respectful, non-confrontational sort of nonchalant kind of way.

I am not trying to play games with her, I just feel like I have issues that are unresolved and I don't want to sweep it under the rug. I want to talk about it and figure out my place in life and in this M. I am trying to be a good husband, and I believe that she is being a better wife than she used to be. But, I am not so sure that sweeping it all under the rug and starting fresh is the right approach. It certainly doesn't feel right to me and I don't want to help sweep it under the rug.

I need a little feedback. Am I just being a whiny prick, or is it ok to throw out the rug even if it makes my fWW uncomfortable?

I did when we were trying to reconcile. I buried it and did not ask questions I really needed answered. I also helped rug sweep for his family and kept up the appearance of a happy marriage.

However, it meant we never really dealt with it. And it did not work for me personally ultimately. It came up in MC again and he still wanted to rug sweep.

Rug sweeping led us to separation. I realized I could not trust him ever again without full disclosure and being allowed to ask questions until I was satisfied. Because of the rug sweeping I could never heal and fully let it go. IMO it is no life for you to think about the affair every day at 19 months out. That is what rug sweeping did to me, I could never heal.

I wish you good luck and that you have the insight and strength to find the answer you need.

Are you guys in IC?

[This message edited by fraeuken at 10:21 PM, August 20th (Monday)]

Are you guys in IC?

No. I am doing ok personally for the moment. fWW said she wants to leave the past in the past. I have asked her to go back to MC and she said she would, but this is a busy time of year for me so it could be a couple of months before we could go.

I lost my health because I participated in the rugsweeping/denial and gaslighting. You may think that you're just allowing old wounds to heal, but truly there is a fatal infection breeding under the rug. One of these days you'll end up on the floor like me, praying to God that the ambulance guys show up in time to save your life.

The truth will set you free.

With Nature Girl. Ended up with depression and IBS because of rug sweeping. Also, the rug sweeping enabled him to go back to OW eventually.

I think I'm rugsweeping somewhat because I've accepted that I can't make him tell me anything, and he won't tell me unless he wants to. And he probably never will, in spite of my foolish vain hope that he will.

By living this way, by not fighting for the truth, by telling myself I'm not asking the questions in the right ways (every time I talk about anything remotely adult - us getting jobs, to who he's going to see today when he goes out, to let-alone details about his A's - he gets angry, sniperish, and cold to me. He shuts me down), by accepting this as my reality - I'm pretty sure I'm rugsweeping. And guess what? Because of the rugsweeping, H sometimes has an idea that I'm struggling with something, but he has no idea that I feel in hell most of the time, and that he is more capable than he realizes to help me change it. And that with every rejection from both our ends (I reject him by saying "it's nothing" and he rejects me when I say "it's something"), he's choosing not to help.

Hence why here on SI, we encourage everyone to own their own behaviors and choices, and try to take control of their own lives. I'm still learning. Still struggling. Tonight's one of the rough nights, I suppose.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:01 AM, August 21st (Tuesday)]

Joe, I've followed your story all along. You seem to be a very nice guy and a good husband. You are considerate of your ww and her feelings, even when you're uncomfortable and hurting, you step back from her because she 'acts upset'. So you are left to wonder and drive yourself up the wall while she sails along oblivious to you, your needs and your pain.

You seem to have obliged her all of your marriage, while she did exactly what she pleased with no concern whatsoever for you.

Pull the rug out from under her. You can't start fresh if there's a pile of shit hidden beneath the rug. The stench is still there and will just get worse.

((((Joeboo))))

I sort of rug swept after the first dday. This time I refused and he couldn't deal with it AT ALL. If I had rug sweptthis time and kept everything quiet and we just dealt with it with a few long talks we would probably not be getting a D, at least as far as he's concerned. But for me, this time I told people, I am extremely open about it, I refuse to let him minimize what happened and I am divorcing because he won't deal with it.

NO.

There was no way I was entering back into that M where there would always be the potential FWH would have another A.

We are 3+ years post D-day and I STILL ask questions.

If you rugsweep you are allowing your WS to remain with her version of thoughts of the A- however skewed they may be.

I asked a question recently about the likely percentage chance a WS would have another A? The answer- most likely where rugsweeping and 'pretending' and not facing the cold, ugly truth occurred.

Do yourself a favour and pull that rug.

Am I just being a whiny prick, or is it ok to throw out the rug even if it makes my fWW uncomfortable?

Pull every damn rug, blanket, and linen that can cover this crap up, and throw it in the trash.

Joe, I don't think that there is anything that your WW could tell you now that would surprise you. I don't think that you fear not being able to handle the truth---I believe that you fear that you will never know the entire truth.

So what should you do about it?

If it were me, I would pursue until I felt a certain level of comfort or confidence that my WS is FULLY COOPERATIVE. Literally, for a full year after D-day, I was afraid to ask the hard questions. I was afraid of the potential answer---whether it was what I expected or whether I thought it was a lie. I just didn't have enough backbone to follow through.

But once I passed those fears, there was no way that I was going to stop until I felt a certain amount of satisfaction that I was making the correct decision to stay in the marriage.

You have already been through the wringer---several times---and are still standing. Don't be afraid to pursue(or overpursue) what you are still searching for---to reach a point to where you can confidently say to yourself "I have all the information that I want/need. I believe my WW is no longer rugsweeping, and is wanting to put my needs first to find some closure. I believe that she FINALLY has my best interests in her heart."

If you can't get to there....or work towards this goal...then what are you still fighting for?

[This message edited by jb3199 at 4:48 AM, August 21st (Tuesday)]

joe,

Your WW (and possibly even you) are in denial about the FACT that her selfishly doing what feels good to HER and feels right to HER...is causing you more injury than the A itself.

Her lack of CARE for you and the M will likely lead to the demise of the M.

A tale of two cheaters:

Cheater number one. Cheats on her husband for months, carries on right under husbands nose. A is finally confirmed, husband proceeds to promptly nail the rug to the floor on top of the A and pretends it didn't happen. "We love each other now, that's all that matters" kinda stuff.

Fast forward just a few short years, wife has an A with someone else. A few short years after that, picks up a new A with the first OM and is actually flaunting it in H's face this time because he stuck around and didn't make things uncomfortable for her the first few times... why should this time be any different?

The other affair:

H cheats on wife for a few years, sneaking around and covering his tracks. W finds out on DDay and finds ALL of it out. Tosses H out right away but let's him come back right away provided that he works on the issues. The couple attends MC, IC, marriage retreats, reads book after book together, talks for hours upon hours weekly about all things A related. The H answers all the W's questions, no matter how uncomfortable or how shameful the answer is. H and W communicate better than they ever have, and learn a lot of great lessons in dealing with this infidelity.

Several years later, the couple is still together, no signs of trouble on the horizon. If an issue of any size pops up, they both promptly deal with it, and H reiterates how sorry he is for what he had done and that he is not the child he used to be. H does all he can to show W that he has changed and is different and deserves her love, trust, and respect. There is no recurrance of infidelity.

For the record, I've always been against rugsweeping ANY problem. It doesn't solve anything, just makes it fester and smell worse. There is no statute of limitations on when the rug can be pulled up and the issue can be cleaned up. I think it's good for the BS, but I also think it's good for the WS to actually deal with it. Otherwise, they stand a greater chance of ending up like affair 1 in my real life stories.

Thank you for all the replies.

Joe, I don't think that there is anything that your WW could tell you now that would surprise you.

I am afraid the mind movies have spoiled all the surprises with one exception: I would be very surprised by unsolicited truth of any kind, especially something that might make her look bad. I'd honestly say I have a better chance of winning the big lottery. Unfortunately that is not a joke.

You seem to have obliged her all of your marriage, while she did exactly what she pleased with no concern whatsoever for you.

Your WW (and possibly even you) are in denial about the FACT that her selfishly doing what feels good to HER and feels right to HER...is causing you more injury than the A itself.

Had to choke back a tear on those.

Its time. Joeboo is going rugless. I know I can't heal until this is solved and I have to keep reminding myself that it is ok to heal. Sometimes I get stuck thinking I am being a bad husband by pushing a little too much. Wish me luck, Mrs Joeboo isn't going to like this, at all.

Thanks to 180 and SI, I believe that I have done well,

A phrase I read early on in my time here on SI...."The person who wants to stay in the marriage the least, has all the power"

Your WW still dictates how you act, how much and when, what is too hard, what she will and will not do......and you go along with it regardless of what it does to you.

She would get upset if I ever brought anything up

she is just sitting on the chair I am trying to carry

if it makes my fWW uncomfortable

Who was the betrayed spouse again?

Joe, I think that's a good step. If, after all this, she won't open up, can you ever have the relationship you want?

T/J - I am forever stumped by the stupidity of WSes who TT or stonewall. How could they miss that the quickest way to stop talking about the A is to answer the questions honestly when they're asked? How have they been oblivious to this lesson?

God, Joe, Im in that same boat. Not quite as far out as you(almost) and I didnt stop asking for as long as you did, but, yeah.

Actually the asshole left me today because I wont "just get over it and stop bringing it up". And good fucking riddance.

Sissoon:

T/J - I am forever stumped by the stupidity of WSes who TT or stonewall. How could they miss that the quickest way to stop talking about the A is to answer the questions honestly when they're asked? How have they been oblivious to this lesson?

I cant understand that either. I just cant.

Its time. Joeboo is going rugless. I know I can't heal until this is solved and I have to keep reminding myself that it is ok to heal. Sometimes I get stuck thinking I am being a bad husband by pushing a little too much. Wish me luck, Mrs Joeboo isn't going to like this, at all.

GOOD LUCK JOEBOO!!! Yank that rug up. Rise up from the dungeon and shake off those shackles that have kept you pinned down for so long!

Assert yourself! Being assertive does NOT make you a 'bad' husband, in fact, it will make you a much stronger person!

Yes. Pretty much summed it up in what you posted Joe. He wanted to leave it in the past and guilted me every time I brought it up. I dropped the subject out loud but it has been in my thoughts every single day. Probably made it easier when he restarted A because I was told I didn't trust him whenever I asked questions. Beating a dead horse is what I was told.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 2:16 AM, August 22nd (Wednesday)]

Joeboo, good luck with the rug pulling up. We are all with you. Rugsweeping is what I am most worried about at this point- that if we don't heal and don't do the work individually, we won't really get through this. Sooner or later it will happen again or I will just leave. Post as you need to. Thinking of you.

NO.

There was no way I was entering back into that M where there would always be the potential FWH would have another A.

We are 3+ years post D-day and I STILL ask questions.

If you rugsweep you are allowing your WS to remain with her version of thoughts of the A- however skewed they may be.

Exactly, precisely, this.