SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Jaco!

You have done very well. I was furious that my FWH was angry with me during his first affair. It seems I had interfered with the two star crossed lovers and all of that.

If you have read After the Affair, then you will also know this is very routine. Do not relax yet and YES!!! The therapy is a good idea. You are now on the R roller coaster and it can be a rocky ride too.

Stay stable. Stay calm. You don't have your real wife back just yet...Now that her lover has his betrayed wife's eyes on him, he should settle down like a good boy for a while.

However, if you can't get NC then all bets are off. She must be willing to stop all forms of communication and give you passwords, etc.

Stay the course and good job.

Did you exposed her A?

At first the OP spouse was understanding, and then attacked me for contacting him. Guess I was in the 1% of ones who dont want to know. Very strange- I thought as a husband with two small kids you would want to know that your wife was sleeping with my husband.

Yes, the A is exposed - sorts the point of this whole thread. :-)

I personally can't imagine NOT wanting to know. Perhaps he has something on the side too, and does not want that messed with?

I've started IC, had the first session which was mostly just an overview of everything - but its really left me drained. I thought it would be a relief but more i think its just a reminder of how f'd the situation is.

I've not approached the WS yet on the official NC, or the request for MC - this weekend is the time for that. Though she did sign a release allowing my IC to talk with her IC, and our previous MC. A baby step, again.

Ok, here's where it gets wierd - she wanted to have sex.( Yes, with me). Yes, i did. Though truly a tough decision, i thought better to act as normal as possible until a real decision is made. Its all part of healing, or was i a fool?

I played them for my WS. The next 24 hours were extremely tough. Her fantasy had been blown away. He did not leave his wife, run to my wife’s side. He stayed with his family, at least for now. 1 week later, my wife is still home. We are working on things. We are talking, figuring out the next steps. OM is not in the picture, he’s “tied up” for now, trying to work his own problems. And despite all the threats, all the supposed “consequences”, NONE of it came true. It was all just arguments to try and maintain their fantasy.

Ah, yes, the "you're not as important as you thought you were" part of the fantasy being ripped away is pretty tough. I know, in my situation, LTA OW was pretty darn convinced I would file and she would "get" WH. She had even gone all "single white female" she'd painted and decorated her house to match mine, got a ticked dog with the same markings as mine (where the HELL did she find THAT?!) the same kind of pet lizard, colored her hair the same color, started dressing like me... you get the (creepy) picture.

Of course she was going to get him! I'd already divorced one man, she had him first, their love was REAL, blah, blah, blah...

and, of course, since she was my "friend" I gave WH a run-down of all the other guys she was cheating on her BH with...

Hang in there, you're doing everything right.

She's your wife. My general rule is this: you can have sex with your spouse as long as (1) it does not send a mixed message and (2) you do not feel bad about yourself afterwards.

I think you're fine. She's saying she's NC and that you two will try to R. As long as you don't feel like a fool for doing it, go ahead. Although, I would suggest STD testing for both of you and using protection until that is done. People on SI have caught all sorts of things from their WS's, up to and including HIV.

Argh. It just doesn't get any easier.

Summary of where things are:

* WS father passed away two weeks ago. We were there for it.

* Last week was very promising - lots of good discussions, going on walks, affection (hugs, kisses, "i love you"s), reconnecting.

* I've started on antidepressants - a good thing

* IC for me going well - some really good insights in only a couple of meetings

* She's scheduled (finally) her IC - starts tomorrow.

Today, she and her siblings met with estate attorney - she found out "all the money goes to mom" (who is in a Alzheimer's care facility). Nothing for her, until mom's gone - no time soon, years at least.

She completely lost it. Think she was thinking the money would pay for her to finally be "free". I got a call at 5:30 on the way home from work - "I took 3 benadryl, and am on my 4th beer - all I want to do is go to sleep."

I rush home - she's a mess - and it all comes out. "every part of my life is bad - father died, marriage bad, job at risk,..."

Then the kicker - "(OM) really loved me and made me feel special. I can't help missing him."

Oh, this is the guy that went back to his wife, abandoning you. That guy. The guy that cheated on his wife of 30 years, and his 3 kids. That guy. He's the one you're missing. The one that threatened me, threatened your family. That guy. Really.

Not me, who still makes you coffee every morning and brings it to you in bed. Me, who drove 300 miles with you, sat by your father's bed as he passed. Me, the father of your children, built a house for you, commutes 100 miles each day to work. Not Me, the guy that still stands by you despite the A.

She calmed down - talked for a couple hours. "You don't love me, you just love the concept of me" huh? "You want me to be someone different than I am." (no, I just don't want you sleeping with other men)

I asked her - do you just want me to call it off, so you don't have to? "That's a good question" (she wouldn't answer more than that)

I repeat. Argh. Not sure if I'm venting, or looking for advice. Waiting for the antidepressant to kick in.

Jaco

Just going to get to the point...

Tell her everything you just said and then tell her to gtfo. I can't list the ways she treats you poorly. The ways she treats properly would be a shorter list except that its non-existent.

At a minimum you need to 180 her because she is mentally still involved with OM and in the fog. Everything she said to you would be a total dealbreaker for me. Whether it is for you is something you have to decide but you need to insist she fix her issues because you do not deserve, nor should you endure, that kind of treatment.

Not me, who still makes you coffee every morning and brings it to you in bed. Me, who drove 300 miles with you, sat by your father's bed as he passed. Me, the father of your children, built a house for you, commutes 100 miles each day to work. Not Me, the guy that still stands by you despite the A.

I'm glad you see this- you need some (righteous) anger

Brandon'r right- you don't deserve crumbs

Oh, Jaco, that is really so cruel. You don't deserve this treatment.

Brandon has a thread in General called "I didn't want D...." , I believe it is spot on, and that it applies to you, too.

I have chosen to R, but I had a FWH that wanted to R and was instantly remorseful and willing to do whatever it took. If we still didn't have a young teen at home, I don't know if I would have even given him the chance.

More times than not, what I have seen here at SI is if the WS isn't instantly remorseful on d-day than chances are slim that the couple will wind up reconciling. I am not talking about Wayward thinking here, I am talking remorse. My FWH still didn't "get it" but was willing to look at himself and work on "getting it".

It really breaks my heart that the BH's here at SI are such good men and many of them have unremorseful WW's and the BH's just keep on hanging in there. Hoping, I would imagine, for the women they fell in love with to come back.

To them I want to say, there are so many good women out in the world waiting for a good man. A women who will respect you and treat you as you deserve and who really know what love means.

(((Jaco)))

Jaco, I am so sorry. It sounds like your WW was using you as Plan B while she waited for her father to die so she could get "her" money from his estate. That attitude of entitlement really pisses me off. I work for an estate planning attorney so I see this a lot.

I asked her - do you just want me to call it off, so you don't have to? "That's a good question" (she wouldn't answer more than that)

I repeat. Argh. Not sure if I'm venting, or looking for advice. Waiting for the antidepressant to kick in.

I think she is waiting for you to be the one to act first. Then she will tell everyone how you kicked her out right after her dad died. How could you do that to her when she was in mourning?!? Can anyone doubt that you are a horrible H and you don't deserve her?

I became outraged for you when I read your last post. So here is my advice which you can freely ignore if you would like: Tell her you have decided and she has to leave. Then do a hard 180. No more long talks trying to figure things out. No rushing to her side when she calls to tell you that she is mixing pills with alcohol. (You can call 911 for her if that happens again and let the men in white coats take her away.) Tell her if she wants to R then you will present her with your conditions that she will need to meet before you consider R, your conditions once R starts and how you will measure her progress. But until then, she needs to leave since she is obviously ambivalent about your M.

My FWH didn't come out of the fog right away. In fact it took him YEARS to come out. We will never know if that process would have been faster if I did the 180 sooner, but he didn't start to come out until he came face to face with the fact that I was ready to leave him. I had a bag packed and in my car. Until the fog was gone, nothing I said was going to have any impact on him. It was my actions that started the change in our M.

I am happy to say that we are solidly in R and I think we are doing really well. I would consider us to be R'd but we will always need to be aware of the state of our M. That work will never end and it shouldn't. So R can happen with a FWH that isn't immediately remorseful after Dday. But first you need to take care of yourself. Nothing can happen if that piece isn't in place.

((Jaco))

Thanks for being so candid. I think its sinking in, but I've got to sleep on it a few nights, consider it with my IC.

She finally saw her IC, and apparently got a bit of a dressing down. WS was supposedly told that its highly likely she would cheat again, its her passive/aggressive response instead of dealing with issues directly. Sounds like she got the "you made your bed, now you sleep in it" message.

When she woke this morning, she was pissed off - started telling me I was "controlling", "acting like her father", simply because I asked her to come to this site, and read "after the affair" after she was having a couple of melting-down events.

I think I'm seeing the difference between regret / remorse - she is clearly in the former.

The true 180 starts today. Question for everyone - she has lost her father, her lover, and the 180 will be the start of losing me. It is quite likely she will have a huge meltdown. Do I just let that happen? (better question: how do I manage the emotional tug that I will get, when she hits rock-bottom?)

Thanks to, and bless everyone, here.

Jaco

Do I just let that happen?

You don't have any control over it.

(better question: how do I manage the emotional tug that I will get, when she hits rock-bottom?)

Co-dependency alert! I recognize it because I had my own just a few months ago (which feels like ancient history now). The answer is detachment. As soon as you feel that tug you need to recognize it for what it is and do anything to distract yourself from reacting. Post here, call friends, see a movie, go for a drive, bake a cake, anything.

started telling me I was "controlling", "acting like her father"

I think that making the WS fully realize (and later acknowledge) that the affair is totally 100% their choice and that remaining in the marriage (or leaving it for that matter) is also totally 100% their choice is one of the most important factors in recovery.

I therefore recommend you make it perfectly clear to your wife that if she wants to she can carry on with her affair. You can’t do a single thing to prevent her from doing so. But… and this is the BIG BUT… not as your wife.

Same about the marriage. If you are a controlling SOB and she doesn’t think that will change then she is perfectly capable of filing. Doesn’t need your permission.

Same about divorce. If she’s unhappy and feels she’s forced to remain in the marriage she is perfectly free to file. Yes – there will be financial changes and yes - the family will need to adjust. But people divorce all the time. They manage. They survive and eventually they tend to become happy again.

But once those statements of truth have been presented you ALSO remind her that by taking none of the above actions SHE is deciding on her OWN free will to remain faithful and married. So you are not controlling her. She is deciding to remain.

Jaco:

I am so sorry she is acting this way. I agree with my fellow posters, use the 180 to protect yourself. I know how hard it is to make sense of all that she has said and done and then for her to continue to be angry with you while pining for the OM is just too much. Hey, I am way over three years out and I still do not "get it". You cannot make sense of something senseless.

I also got to the point where I told WH that he was free to be with OW, free to hang out at the bars with trash, free to be "happy", but he could not do these things and still be married to me. Just tell her this in whatever way you feel comfortable; you are not controlling her.

At this point, your wife could go either way. It appears the OM has thrown her under the bus and she is highly pissed that she is not getting her way and to her, it appears staying in the marriage is settling. You deserve way better than this. You are no ones back up plan.

I am hoping she realizes her error before you disengage entirely.

Take care..

The other spouse needs to know, regardless. The FOM did the same to me about how "devastated his marriage and family would be". That is not your problem. You need to do what is right- tell the other spouse the truth.

Stupid question of the day - do you stop wearing your wedding ring during the 180?

Oh, and I'm not a controlling SOB.

WS is now acting like everything's fine. I'm guessing my IC will recommend taking it easy, let the process work its way out. Both our ICs and MC have signed agreements to let them discuss our situation from both of us. However, we are not yet seeing the MC since the A was outed.

She has shown a few, small signs of remorse - apologizing for hurting me, but its nowhere near 100%. I'd say more like 10%.

thanks for the hugs. "Back at yah"

The never-ending story continues.

WS still in contact with OM - so I've been letting OBS know as I find out.

I did, yesterday, give WS my "deal breakers" list, that included NC, getting rid of all "mementos", on-going MC, and all-access to communications. She proceeded to (supposedly) send OM a message that stated she wished NC - to which he replied he'd check with his IC to see if that was OK. (huh?) Yes, WS told me this freely.

(yes, I know the NC email was out-of-line, because I never saw it, never knew it was going out, etc. Will be working on this in counseling for sure)

I let the OBS about that via email last night, and this morning received an email from HIM saying stop contacting his wife. "I'm impeding our healing process."

I know, at that point I should have NOT engaged, but had to. I replied, "you set the game rules when you threatened my family in the beginning (‘I'll make sure your family doesn't survive’)", and its very simple - if he stops communicating with my wife, I'll stop communicating with his.

His response, "jaco, your lack of insight is incredible". Really. My final response to him - "I think my insight is perfectly clear - you are an narcissistic asshole who hates not having it your way. I'll keep it simple - If you talk to WS, I reach out to whom ever I wish. This puts you in complete control. Don't talk to WS, I don't engage. Not with you, not with family, work, neighbors, friends, nobody."

No response from him on that one.

Through this, WS stated she was going to move out next weekend (she doesn’t know about the OM communications yet) – “because I’m causing you too much pain”. This was after I lost it a bit that she was communicating with him at all. I responded, if that happens, I file for D. I’m not sure if that was the right response or not, but it seemed to reset her for a moment.

Still unsure where this leads, but it is amazing how f’d this has gotten.

Good Jesus, this is just unreal. I have no idea how you have not beaten the dog shit out of this man, I mean really?? YOU are the problem?? Stop contacting HIS wife?? Are you f-ing kidding me?? Okay, brutality over....the reason (I believe) she is NOT moving forward is because he is telling her to hold on, he is not sure how his marriage is gonna play out, so he has her in limbo and she has you in limbo. The only way (I believe) you will make her understand/snap her out of it/clear some of the fog/ whatever is to go "Shock and Awe' on her. Do as one of the other posters has said and tell her to GTFO of your life. Stop waiting on whether or not OM marriage is gonna survive it. He is waiting on his wife's decision, your wife is waiting on his decision and you are waiting on hers. Take ALL of that anger and frustration and basically "Nut-Up" on her!! I would NOT put up with this bullshit of waiting and seeing what OM take on everything is!!! You need to take control of this situation, take it OUT of his/her hands and MOVE on!! I wish you strength....but I won't wish you patience...You've given her enough of that already.