SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ok, here goes..... (deep breath!)

My story. My wife and I are both in our early to mid 30's and have been together for 4 years, married for two. We have a 3 year old son, and a 6 yr old daughter who I consider as my own even though I am not biological dad.

I have always had difficulty understanding my wife. She is very complex and has told me repeatedly that I can and will 'never understand her'. This will become more relevant later on. Anyway, I have never loved anyone as much as I do her, perhaps never will. We first started encountering problems early in our relationship after I lied to her about certain aspects of my past. I am no saint, and through shame lied about some things that she took very hard. This "tainted" her view of me going forward into our marriage. I also have found it very difficult to deal with her disagreeing with me, and have been argumentative and dismissive of her feelings on too many occasions. I've accepted full responsibility for this in this past few weeks, as I;m sure many will relate to I've taken a LONG hard look at myself, who I was, and who I want to be.

In a nutshell, my wife has been having an affair (emotional & physical) for about a year, with a man in his mid 40's who I have known well all the time we have been together, and who I considered my friend. We all share the same hobby, and have seen each other two/three times a week for the past 4 years. I knew she loved this man before we got together, but he never reciprocated her feelings. This man, our friend, was married with a step daughter (we went to their wedding) until his wife died unexpectedly around 2 years ago. I shared his grief and loss as his friend.

This time last year, she began going out socially at weekends and nights with him and others in our hobby group. As far as I knew that was as far as things went, until just before Christmas 2011 I read her phone. I am not proud of this, but cannot change it now. There were texts between them that I considered inappropriate. When challenged on them, my wife dismissed them as nothing to worry about.

This pattern of socialising continued after the new year, including on her birthday, although it changed from with friends to just her and him. Every sunday without fail she would leave me to look after our children to go and see this man, stating that she 'needed her life' which I understood (at the time).

My suspicions really increased when it became harder for me to attend the hobby we all twice a week in the evenings. When I couldn't go, she ALWAYS left an hour early to go round to his house 'for a brew'. When I could go, she didn't. This change in behaviour made me very concerned, and I asked her several times if she was having an affair. She said no every time. Our relationship during this time actually improved, our sex life got better, and especially after her sunday afternoon socialising sessions with her 'friend'. We even had a lovely week on holiday where we made love more regularly and passionately than we had in years. It made me question my doubts about her relationship with him.

However, things deteriorated again. She had told me many times I should leave as there was 'nothing left for us' due to my apparent behaviour and how I treated her, but things always seemed to settle. She spent more time with him, to the point where I confronted her again 3 weeks ago. Again she denied it. I had had enough, and so went and knocked on his door.

I came straight out with it and told him I knew about the affair, and wanted to know exactly how long (a year as I suspected), how regularly (as often as possible every week as I suspected), and how he had been able to look me in the eye two or three times a week for a year knowing what he was doing not only with my wife but to ME, a supposed friend. He couldn't answer that question. I stayed calm (despite what I wanted to do) and talked to him. He told me that it 'just happened' as she started going out with him more, paying him more attention and he felt flattered. He said he had been lonely and 'living in hell' since his wife died and he'd lost his job. Ironically this is EXACTLY what I warned my wife about how he would feel a few months prior to me finding out. She dismissed it even though she was already carrying on the affair.....

I arranged for our children to be elsewhere, then when my wife got home we talked about it. She admitted it, finally. Even though I thought I knew, I had no idea how hard it would hit me when it was confirmed...

She said she had rationalised it by compartmentalising it into 'real life' (home & kids) and 'not real life'. She said that she hadn't told me when I directly asked her if she was having an affair because that part of her was nothing to do with me. I truly believe this is what she thinks, even if I can't understand it or agree with it at all.

I've spent the past 3 weeks reading so much on this site, and it has proved massively helpful as I have not been able to talk to anyone else- all our friends are shared with him and I don't want people knowing if we've a chance of reconciliation. I was hopeful that the affair would stop once she knew I knew, but on at least 2 occasions she has slept with him again, and on one of those times stayed the night when our kids were at grand parents. I had no idea she was doing this until she went, and this devastated me. I told her it felt exactly the same as before, the only difference being this time I knew what was going on for sure. She said she had to make her mind up which one of us she wanted, and wanted to experience what it was like to wake up with him. She said it was very nice, which is unsurprising as she wasn't woken by kids demanding breakfast of her, so it's still not like real life is it?

She has not seen him apart from when I've been there for a week now, although I know they are still talking to each other by text and Facebook. A few days ago she suggested Marriage Counselling which I agreed to, we go later this week. I've told her I still love her and want this to work, she told me that she feels like she can never trust me again, but is going into it with an 'open mind'.

I'm so confused, and am sleeping very poorly. I keep dreaming about them together, which is worse when I wake up and see her lying next to me. Even though we share the bed we are not having sex, she says that is 'not appropriate' as we don't know where we're going yet. This morning she gave me a passionate kiss just before she left for work, which felt electric, but has confused me further due to the lack of overall intimacy and closeness she has initiated.

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but feel so much better having got it out of my system for the time being. I have no idea how to act, what to do, what to say, and welcome any advice you can give me. Thank you for taking the time to read my story so far.

First, I'm sorry you have to be here. Check out the Healing Library if you haven't done so already.

Next...this is waaaaay out of line.

she told me that she feels like she can never trust me again

Pardon me but WTF??? She can't trust you? That is the height of wayward thinking. You suspected something because there was something. She lied to you repeatedly. She is pissed because she got caught. Period. Do not ever let her get away with that again. Do not let that one stand and never apologize for catching her again.

She said she had to make her mind up which one of us she wanted, and wanted to experience what it was like to wake up with him.

You need to shut this down.She basically reported to you the "progress" of her A. It is cruel and insensitive to treat you this way. You don't deserve it.

You need to 180 her now and start consulting with lawyers. She's very deep in the fog and totally unremorseful.

I'm sorry but her actions show you how little regard she has for the M at this point. You said it yourself...she didn't have to deal with real life. Well maybe she needs to get a little taste of it.

I have to warn about one thing...she may choose the OM. The 180 is about focusing on you and your healing and not being dependent upon her for that. It is not about influencing her decision. She has to come out of the fog on her own. I know...I've been there.

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 9:48 AM, October 10th (Wednesday)]

Thanks Brandon808.

Is hard to know what to think tbh. Her lack of trust for me is unrelated to the affair and more to do with how she feels about the lies I told early on in our relationship. I'm well aware she may choose the OM. She told me she was choosing him a week or so in when I was pushing her for a decision, and said i'd given her 'no choice'.

It is so difficult because I love her so much even after all this. I firmly believe I can put this behind me and concentrate on our future, but I feel i need to see more from her. She has said she realises now how much this has hurt me and apologised for it, but has not yet shown any remorse.

After 3 weeks I realise this is only the beginning of a very long and difficult road....

Hi and welcome SideshowBob. Sorry for the reason you're here, but glad you found us

There's a lot to say, but for now, I'll only focus on one thing:

all our friends are shared with him and I don't want people knowing if we've a chance of reconciliation.

I'd say the chances are pretty strong that they already know. From my experience, people trying to hide relationships aren't as sneaky as they think they are.

Wifehad5,

You are spot on. Thinking about it as I've done this past 3 weeks, people mentioned changes in her & his behaviour, and I brushed them off. The other night I met OM's brother for a pint (we're decent friends) as my wife had told me that OM told her his brother knew, but MADE HER KEEP IT A SECRET from me. We talked and he didn't condone what his brother has done and said he had no idea. I've since found out that he DID know, and so a lot of what he told me was lies to reassure me he wasn't a bastard like his brother.

I've also been told that FRIENDS of OM's brother had talked to a seperate friend of WW & mine about her having an affair but they didn't know who with! I have yet to talk to our other friend, and don't know how I'm going to raise it with him.

Seems like I was the last to know in all this. Do I have 'FOOL' tattooed on my forehead that everyone can see but me?

Her lack of trust for me is unrelated to the affair and more to do with how she feels about the lies I told early on in our relationship.

Then she should have insisted on IC/MC or asked for a divorce. Responding to past lies with more lies and betrayal was never an answer that would heal or repair the M...and she knows that. She is using it as an excuse.

You need to handle this based on her actions now, not what you hope you will see happen.

Wifehad5 is right, your friends almost certainly know.

Were there pre-A issues in the M? There almost always are. Should they be worked on and improved (assuming R is possible)? Yes, absolutely. However, the damage from the A must be worked on first. This is where the remorse is absolutely necessary.

Why is it that WS.s always have to deflect blame and make up excuses about A. My WW is an expert at deflection and can almost make me feel guilty. Do they actually believe the bullshit that comes out of their own mouths????

I am very sorry you are experiencing this trauma.

Sadly, you cannot “nice” someone back into their marriage when they are addicted to the affair.

I know you still love her, and those feelings are heightened by her abandonment. However, there are three possibilities here: 1) she will leave you and you will have to detach and stop loving her, 2) she will continue her affair and cruel behavior until you can take no more and stop loving her, 3) you can give her a harsh reality check. She may then choose option one, or she may wake up and realize her fantasy has consequences. Option three looks scariest, but it actually has the best chance of stopping the A and if it doesn’t work, at least you have regained some self-respect.

I would first get whatever support you need for your physical and mental health (anti-depressants if warranted, a therapist to talk things through), and then ASAP see a lawyer and find out how to protect yourself and what you can do within the law. That might include cutting off her funds, packing all her belongings in trash bags and leaving them in OM’s driveway, filing for divorce. Knowledge is power. You may also want to out the affair to her family, if you think that might give her a wake-up call, but don’t expect much support from them for yourself.

I firmly believe I can put this behind me and concentrate on our future, but I feel i need to see more from her.

Your wife is still actively in an affair. You cannot reconcile while she is carrying on with another man. She needs to go No Contact.

I'm sorry SSB, I know at this stage you just need comfort, but continue reading here (see also the Healing Library to the left) and you will start to see patterns to the cheating. Giving a cheater permission to continue their affair never works. She needs a wake-up call, and you will have to find the strength to give it to her, or this nightmare will never end.

No matter what happens, you will survive this.

[This message edited by Lyonesse at 11:05 AM, October 10th (Wednesday)]

Your story is so sad to read, not because your wife cheated but the way you allowed her to disrespect you, your marriage made me sad.

She is sleeping with OM under your nose and you still want her make me very sad. What happened to your self respect, dignity, self worth and pride. Why cant you see the friends laughing at your back? For them you are a cuckold, for your wife you are a doormat and cuckold. She is keeping you as her plan B and her meal ticket. She is keeping you as her babysitter, so that she can bang OM and wake up besides him to know how it feel.

If it was me she might have got the D papers by now. She is humiliating you, Dont allow her to humiliate disrespect you like a cuckold or doormat.

There are plenty of other girls who are looking for a guy like you.

Open your eyes and see what kind of Shitload you are living at present.

Consult a lawyer to day and show her the doors.

This is very sad and I am mad on your behalf. You need to re-read the 180 info.

If sex if off the table between the two of you, because you all aren't sure where you are headed, then it sure as hell shouldn't be going on between the two of them!

And the friends likely know, so blowing that cover won't be affecting any ability to R. That inability comes from your WW and her continued flaunting her adultery in front of you. Disgusting behavior. Not even regret on her part yet- or reality.

She's got a long road back to reality. You are too new to this to even decide if R is a possibility in the future. You are still in disbelief and her behavior is very blatantly disrespectful.

As I said, I'm angry on your behalf.

((((HUGS))))

ETA: NC is an absolute must.

[This message edited by SoVerySadNow at 1:22 PM, October 10th (Wednesday)]

Throw her out. Reality check.

Follow the 180 its for your health ,not to win her back.

Go see a lawyer .... prepare for divorce even if you have not decided what to do.

Have a var always with you and recorded her you may needed.

Move fast and when you are ready file for divorce and then tell her that you want divorce nothing more ... only the shock of a divorce can bring her out of the fog ...if she is in a fog

He said he had been lonely and 'living in hell' since his wife died and he'd lost his job.

Your wife is the great princess, assuaging all of his grief and making herself feel so much better about herself because of her issues that she has hidden in her past.

She is very complex and has told me repeatedly that I can and will 'never understand her'.

Which means, "I will never tell you all about myself, I'm not telling anyone that stuff."

she feels like she can never trust me again

Blameshifting onto the BS.

She definitely needs IC herself, in order to be an honest participant in MC. Just survive for now, the fallout from this is severe.

She needs to sever all contact with the OM immediately. She is self validating with him, and it is destructive to her children's lives as well as her marriage. He is not the problem, she is, he is not important in this, he needs to go immediately.

He is just collateral damage in life.

We had a really good night tonight. Enjoyed her company immensely and felt relaxed. I asked why she was holding me, she said it made her "feel good". When I asked if that was just with me she blamed me for bringing it all up again and throwing it in her face. I just wanted to know. I either said the wrong thing or she simply didn't want to think about it.

Asked her straight if she'd broken it off with OM, she blamed me for not giving her the time and space to go and see him to do it. Silly me for not realising it had to be done face to face....what a load of shit. She's utterly blinkered.

Asked her straight if she'd broken it off with OM, she blamed me for not giving her the time and space to go and see him to do it. Silly me for not realising it had to be done face to face....what a load of shit. She's utterly blinkered.

It's crazy making isn't it? She's blaming you, her husband, for not allowing her to break it off with her boyfriend. In what universe does that make sense?

It's time for you to focus on you. Have you read the 180? If not, you can find it in the Healing Library. Read it and follow it.

See an attorney and find out what to expect if it does come to divorce. Being prepared can save you a huge amount of trouble latter on.

One more or less inevitable consequence no matter how this ends is a major change in your circle of friends and/or hobby.

Look – basically there are two realistic ways this situation can end. Either you end up divorcing your wife or she ends the affair. [Neither of these options are “bad” per se. The “bad” option is the third one: The one where you and your wife find some way to remain “married” while she carries on with her affair.]

So let’s say you get divorced. Think you will be hanging around with your bowling club (or whatever the hobby is) when your then ex-wife and her new husband pop in? Or if you reconcile – think playing bridge with the OM as your partner sounds good? Think either situation will help you recover? Nah – cold hard fact: EITHER option will lead to a situation where you need to remove OM from your life. Completely. Chances are too that if you are socially active then there will be major changes in your social circle. It’s inevitable.

Seriously consider exposing. Look at your friends and think “is there any way I can ask them to positively impact my wife” and then don’t hesitate to ask for help.

And your wife… she’s not complex. She’s simply mixed up. Don’t put an exotic twist on it. It’s like when people having affairs call it a “tryst” or “an adventure” when in fact it’s simply cheating.

How does it feel sharing your WW with the OM? Sucks, but what really sucks is it seems your done little to end this.

Your WW will continue to disrespect you and your family as long as you allow it. She's cakeating and you are the enabler.

As been said before, you cannot "nice" or "love" back into your M. She needs to see an feel the consequences of her actions.

Right now she needs a smack of reality to shake her out of this fog. This includes exposing her A and a number of "requests".

1. NC with the OM

2. IC and MC

3. 100% commitment to you and your M

These are not demands, but minimun requirements for you to even consider staying M'd to her. You to be firm and let her know she either does these or you will D her.

Until you stand up for you and your family, you will continue to get leftovers from your WW, while the OM enjoys the main course.

Mad yet, you should be.

If she leaves again to meet the OM, she should return home to find her sh#t packed, sitting in the driveway.

Laid it out this morning to her. If we are to move forward especially with MC tomorrow, she has to break it off with him today and I need to see evidence of it.

Either that or tomorrow we go to MC to arrange separating on as good terms as possible for the kids.

Line drawn, her move.

Sideshow,

Beforehand I’m going to apologise if this post meanders along. I want to cover a lot of ground and there isn’t really any one ideal chronology or order to put this text. Bear with me…

I am very goal oriented. I believe that when fighting a war it’s sometimes better to lose an occasional battle or to give ground on occasional cases IF it increases your chances of winning the war. So I think you really have to be very careful and strategic right now. I think you might be headed towards a last-stand situation: very heroic and brave but not likely to win you this war.

First of all: I think the biggest cause of stress and fear is the unknown. So really sit down and contemplate what you are dealing with. Ask yourself this very basic question: What is the worst possible outcome from this situation?

I think most of us BS fear losing our spouses. We fear losing our relationship and our families. Well – if that’s your worst fear. If you think your spouse defines family. If you think what you are living in now is a sustainable “relationship”…. Then the solution is simple: Accept the fact your wife has a lover.

A sound drastic but fact is a surprisingly high number of people live this way. Even here on SI you have people whose spouse is in an active ongoing long-term affair and although the BS bitches and complains here about it… nothing changes. A more than reasonable time of limbo has been spent with an unhappy BS and a content WS.

There are people that successfully live open marriages – but keep in mind this is best done if the agreement is in place BEFORE either spouse finds a paramour. In those cases it’s not even infidelity: the ground rules are in place before the act.

If this sounds like an acceptable solution for you then you really don’t need to read much further…

[Personally I can’t even start contemplating having an open marriage – but that’s just me. For some it works, for others it doesn’t.]

If discussing time-sharing, personal hygiene and safe-sex with your wife isn’t your cup of tea then your worst fear isn’t losing your wife.

So what could be the worst possible outcome from this situation?

I think the worst possible outcome for most of us would really be to REMAIN in infidelity.

That 30 days from now you are dealing with exactly the same situation as you are dealing with today.

That 3 months from now you are still dealing with the same situation.

That next year you are still dealing with your wife and her lover.

If this is truly your worst fear then look at the realistic possible outcomes and the realistic possible consequences. To me it’s “simple”. There are two possible outcomes; divorce or reconciliation.

Let’s get divorce on and off the table. Divorce is a mathematical enigma. Somehow having half of your present value is always a lot less than being worth half of your present value. Financially divorce never has “winners” but there can be emotional winners. Wipe away any preconception you have about divorce and how it screws men over (because women can argue the opposite just as convincingly), how you need to leave your wife the house or how you will kick her out (because neither needs to or will happen). Keep in mind that when and if you enter a court you and your wife stand equally 50/50 in front of the judge and the law. If that changes it will only be because of your decisions and/or reactions to her demands.

If you take nothing else out of this post then this is the best advice you will ever get on SI: On divorce don’t take our word – consult with a good, recommended divorce attorney. Know your rights. Know what you can do to enhance your situation IF this leads to divorce. Know what to expect, how to improve your situation, what you can safely say, do and offer. For example: Could infidelity affect your divorce?

But… keep in mind that statistically infidelity very seldom leads to divorce. If I remember correctly only about 1 in 10 marriages affected by infidelity end in divorce. So I would definitely look into your rights and options. I would definitely have divorce as a realistic possible outcome. But I wouldn’t put it as the goal.

There is a mantra we use a lot here on SI: Pray for sun – prepare for rain.

OK – from your posts it’s clear you want reconciliation. You want that a lot. But hopefully the thought of sharing your wife is worse than the thought of losing her. Hopefully you are grasping that the concept “wife” includes certain values such as fidelity, values that she isn’t meeting at the moment. So I challenge you to look at your wife as two separate entities right now.

See your wife (W). This is the woman you met, dated, fell for and married. This is the woman you want.

See your Wayward Wife (WW). This is the woman that is holding back. Has an affair. Causes pain. This is the wife that is self-destructive because she can’t be a “wife” with these goals. This is the woman you want out.

Your actions now should be aimed at reaching the W and exorcising the WW. Unfortunately your W switches between the two and she is only reachable with sense and logic when addressing W. For example: telling W that the affair needs to end makes sense to her. Tell WW the same and she won’t listen. In fact – ANY discussion with the WW is useless as far as constructive reconciliation is concerned. ANY DISCUSSION.

OK – So far we have (hopefully) attained three things:

Think strategically.

What’s the worst possible outcome?

How to view with your wife.

Now – you gave your W an ultimatum. Unfortunately your WW will not end the affair.

OK – there is the very remote chance W will end it and W will prevail. But that’s MAYBE a 1 in 20 (at best) chance. At best W will end the affair and be really really honest. But maybe WW will have a last fling with OM. Maybe WW will tell OM over pillow-talk that they can still meet for “coffee”. Maybe WW will text him about how he’s doing after 6 days. Maybe WW will end up in his bed again within two weeks…

So are you willing to follow the ultimatum to the end?

If you find a text to him after 4 days will you separate?

If she can’t tell you where she was for two hours two weeks from now…?

Cold fact is very few of us BS can do it… Very few BS can set an ultimatum and follow it through… And very few WS can end an affair and right off from the first not reestablish contact.

[Side note: Your WW has an emotional attachment to this man. She might break it off with him with true intentions of not contacting him in an inappropriate way again. But she might text him 2 weeks from now just to ask how he’s coping. She won’t have any intention of anything “inappropriate”; she won’t be thinking of him as a lover or have any intent of having sex with him. But it IS maintaining infidelity. Compare it to an alcoholic that decides to limit himself to beer rather than vodka – the alcohol is still hitting those spots…]

So IMHO ultimatums can become battles that can kill us before we can win the war.

I challenge you to consider using words to this effect:

“Honey – I would move heaven and earth to save our marriage. I think we CAN recover from the affair if we both want to. I realize I have to change many things to become the ideal husband but nothing I did or didn’t do explains or justifies your decision to have an affair. However I have had an epiphany:

Losing you as my wife is not the worst outcome of this situation. SHARING YOU is immensely worse.

I also realized I can’t make you end the affair. So you are free to see OM as much as you want. Move in with him if that’s what you want. I can’t force you to remain in this marriage. So you are totally free to see OM or any other man for that matter. But NOT AS MY WIFE.

In fact – the moment you decided to initiate the affair I lost you as a wife. Discovering the affair simply notified me you had tendered your resignation.

This can only end in one of two ways: We both commit to the marriage or we start the process of formally ending our marriage. I can’t make you end the affair. I can’t make you commit to the marriage. What I can tell you is I truly think we can reconcile and I am willing to do the work. However – that’s completely useless unless and/or until YOU commit to the same.

Until and unless you commit to the marriage in a clear, vocal and unequivocal way where you accept:

a) Ending the affair.

b) Total and accountable NC with OM.

c) Commitment to the work required with MC.

Then all I can do is assume the affair is ongoing and base my actions on that.

Keep in mind that this is how I feel now. Each and every time I even THINK you are with OM a part of me dies. With that dies a part of me that still believes this marriage can be saved or is even worth saving. So you have a window of time NOW to commit to the marriage but I can’t tell you when that window closes. It might be an hour from now – it might be tomorrow or it might be in a week. It might be the next time I hear you have been with OM.” [This is what I call an open ultimatum – It makes it clear to your WW that each time she sees OM she is risking the marriage, but saves you the weakness of having to say “OK – Next time you see OM I will file – and NOW I really mean it!”]

And basically leave it at that. See how she reacts. If she commits… well great. But be prepared for the more or less inevitable set-backs. As long as at the end of every day you can look back and see some progress then it’s OK that this journey sets off slowly.

Until she commits then progress with the prepare for rain philosophy: Talk to an attorney, become financially aware, google your rights and the divorce laws, do the 180 and disengage.

If you have kept up so far then thanks. Hope this helped. There are certain strategies that can be applied that could enhance your chances of saving your marriage. Strangely (and fortunately) these strategies also coincide with being independent and detaching.

[This message edited by Bigger at 1:59 PM, October 11th (Thursday)]

She needs time and space to end it with OM.......REALLY? In which world she is living? This alone shows how much respect she had for you. If she wanted this marriage she may have been on her knees begging for your forgiveness.She is not on her knees asking for her forgiveness, she is not remorseful not even regretful, she is not transparent, she is not ready to end it with OM, she is not eady to discuss about her A then WHY you wanted to R with her?

but even after your D day she is banging OM only thing changed is that before D day you only had the doubt but now she is banging him under your nose and you are enabling her by your passiveness.

Time to lawyer up and show her that your balls are not in her purse and you can very well live a better life without her.

R or D its your choice but take your own time to analyze what you wanted in your life and marriage. But should be done on your terms not on her.

You need IC and STD checkup.