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Wow...I am shaking my head at the insanity I am reading. I apologize if I come across too strong and I do not mean to offend you but I am so angry for you. No way should you stay with your wife while she is actively in an A with your fake friend. You are sharing your wife with a creep. How is that healthy for you knowing that you are settling for his seconds? I think that if you kick her out, he will dump her. He doesn't want a long term relationship with her or else he would have had her leave you already.

She is hoping he will commit to her but he hasn't so she is stringing you along as her back up plan. Sounds like she has always wanted him and after his wife died she saw her chance and went after him. I think he is just using her and the sooner she realizes it the better. Either you accept that your wife has a lover and learn to live with it or get your dignity back and kick her to the curb. I strongly believe that once she is free the OM will run for the hills. He doesn't really want her, he just wants the attention and free sex. They are both selfish, inconsiderate, amoral assholes.

Give her all the time and space. 180+file for D.

All,

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply, it means a great deal to me, even if I don't agree with it all!!

I will NEVER accept the fact my wife has a lover, and could certainly never live with the knowledge that she is with someone else as well as me going forward. I come from a very simple background- you commit to one person and stay committed. If you break that then it is up to you to fix it before dealing with anything else that may be wrong.

There is no way I can sit down in MC tomorrow with her knowing that she has not finished her affair. I know some may not agree, but that's just how I feel. I see it as an impossibility for her to express any regret or remorse about something that is still ongoing.

In the past 3 weeks I have reconciled myself to what could happen in the future, and I'd say it's 50-50 at best as to what she will decide, but that's ok. It's her choice. It was her choice to begin the affair. It was her choice to continue it for so long. It was her choice to willingly lie to me so many times. It was her choice to lose time with our children so regularly to carry this on. It is now her choice whether to continue with the affair or commit to our marriage.

She knows what I think. Now it's up to her. Either way I will not have my future dictated to me. I have given her my conditions for us to move forward. If she chooses not to accept them so be it. In that instance I won't really have lost anything, will I?

There is nothing especially low down or disgusting in your situation. There is nothing unique to your WW behavior that makes your case especially obnoxious or bad. OK – It’s all relative but your WW actions are relatively “normal” in the wide scope of infidelity we have seen here on SI.

So are your reactions to date. All things considered you are more or less at the point most BS are after d-day. Your reactions to-date are the same reactions I venture 90% of all BS show. So don’t feel bad or as if you haven’t done right so far.

But this is where you can change things…

The “all or nothing” ultimatum is the expected, usual response. It can only end in one of two ways:

You stand by your ultimatum and initiate divorce in the next 2-3 weeks (because the odds are so extremely stacked that she will break NC).

You don’t stand by your ultimatum and your position gets weaker.

I strongly encourage you to read my post again and consider using the MC session as the place where you make your stance clear: Commit to the marriage but until and/unless you do so then our marriage is emotionally over and basically only the technical aspect of divorce left.

Thanks Bigger for that clarification. It certainly is a path I will follow tomorrow. D doesn't scare me as such, I can't accept feeling as I do any more without SOMETHING changing, it's more the impact on our children that is the worrying part for me if it does come to D.

Its good to see that you took a stand, stick to that and never back off.

Never allow her to dictate what you should do or not.

If or D it should be on your terms and conditions.

SideshowBob, sorry you are here but hopefully you've found this helpful so far. I wish that I would have found the group earlier in my process for the ongoing support that you are going to need the next several months.

Bigger has made excellent points and I want to warn you that it is easier to take an initial stance now then to stick to it for several months. So hang tough with your decision as the emotions will mess with your head, especially when kids are involved and the fact that you are open to R which is very admirable.

I think MC is the perfect place to lay it out there; mine was a discussion on our past "problems" but never got to the point of "end the affair or we're done". I went back to IC with the same counselor and she could tell my X was disengaged and not ready to end the A. My X later told me that she went for me (so I could get help) but not for our M. My point is try to keep it on task and about the A, versus blameshifting that is likely to occur, which in their mind is the reason to justify what they did and potentially continue.

You also have to make sure she goes completely NC with OM and offers transparency if she is willing to R. I had a false R which was as painful if not worse then D-Day. I let my guard down and had to start it all over again.

Good luck and hang in there; the peaks and valley's suck, so keep posting and reading.

Ok, so I buckled. We went to MC today, and she hadn't broken off the affair. Told the MC that she had been 'distancing' herself from him and only texting him about mundane stuff. I had to very quickly reassess what I wanted from the session. Until I hear otherwise I am going to use it as a tool to deal with MY shit rather than OURS, with a view to making me stronger for what's to come.

As foolish as I feel about not sticking to what I said (sadly proving those of you right who said ultimatums are difficult things to see through) I feel confident that I can get what I need out of the MC sessions. The next one is just me on my own, so I intend to say exactly what I need to and take in any recommendations I'm given.

What a long and incredibly winding road this is.....

Sideshow.

Once again – read my long post on page 1. So far it’s the best strategy for you that I have seen on your thread (Not that I’m beating my drum. It’s not based on anything I “discovered” but rather the wisdom of numerous veteran posters here on SI that I have accumulated and articulated).

Ever heard of a guy called George Washington? He lost more battles than he won. Yet he won the war. He was a mediocre general but a fantastic tactician. And that’s how you can survive this situation: by focusing on tactics and less on individual battles. Win the war – the heck with battles!

Ultimatums... So you tried the “Keep on with the affair and I will divorce you” ultimatum and it didn’t work… Well… don’t feel bad. You are not the first to fail with those and it seldom works to use firm, stiff ultimatums with no leeway.

The below “ultimatum” offers you a lot more leeway and therefore greatly empowers you. It allows YOU to decide your reactions to her ongoing affair.

“Keep in mind that this is how I feel now. Each and every time I even THINK you are with OM a part of me dies. With that dies a part of me that still believes this marriage can be saved or is even worth saving. So you have a window of time NOW to commit to the marriage but I can’t tell you when that window closes. It might be an hour from now – it might be tomorrow or it might be in a week. It might be the next time I hear you have been with OM.”

Distancing and mundane stuff…. Sideshow – do you know anyone dealing with a drinking problem? Have a friend that’s an alcoholic and has tried to stop? Have you noticed that guy who usually drinks himself into a stupor, makes a fool of himself, pukes on the boss or hits on all the ladies with the vomit on his shirt and his zipper undone? Notice that every now and then (especially after a particularly embarrassing night) he will start off only ordering sodas or beers and try to stay off the hard liquor? Notice how that usually lasts only for a couple of hours. Then all of a sudden he’s back at being the jackass? Well – that’s your wife. ANY contact – even mundane texts – is the infidelity beer. It’s just a question of when she will resume doing the OM.

Sideshow: Right now the BIGGEST danger to your marriage (apart from the affair) is you not taking action. Right now your wife remains with you for a reason. After all – OM is a widower, has a house and she could move in there tomorrow IF he was open for it and IF your wife was open for it. So what’s that reason? I venture it’s the W (remember: W and WW separate people?). The W still wants the marriage. Now – the WW and the W argue: WW says you are lacking, weak, unreliable. W says you aren’t. Not taking action… well to me that would make W doubt you care… After all she’s thinking that if the shoe was on the other foot she would be kicking you out. So I can’t strongly enough encourage you to read the last part of my post to you on page 1 and to (in your own words) make it very very clear to W that you won’t share her and that while the affair is ongoing the marriage is dead.

I will NEVER accept the fact my wife has a lover, and could certainly never live with the knowledge that she is with someone else as well as me going forward

I have to point out to you, Sideshow, that is EXACTLY what you ARE doing. You ARE accepting the fact that your wife has a lover and that she is with someone else as well as you. I'm not pointing it out as a way to humiliate you or denigrate you in any way....I point it out because it is the *true reality* of your situation as it stands right now. And based on how the events have unfolded so far....it is going to continue to be your true reality.

The strategy that Bigger laid out for you on page 1 is one of the most EXCELLENT plans that I have seen. It seems perfectly suited for your situation. Even the way he described your W as 2 separate people was spot-on.

What his strategy does is force your WW to make her own choice and be a grown-up and Bigger gave you the exact words to use so that you do not come across as your WW's father who is *laying down the law*, thereby putting you into the enemy camp and facing a *power* struggle....nor does it force you into giving ultimatums that you cannot follow through on.

Print that post and read it over and over until your eyes fall out.

And btw...no one else mentioned this but I noticed something that is just flat-out wrong. YOU went to OM, who was YOUR *supposed* friend, and *had a man-to-man talk* with him....and he has continued his A with your WW. That makes him pondscum.

Best of luck to you SideShow. I'm sorry that you have to deal with all of this crap.

Side show you are right you need to see a councillor for yourself. You take the time to deal with your feelings and to get strong to face what ever your future is. No matter what happens just remember put one foot in front of the other and head for the sun. Believe in yourself as you are the only person that can give yourself a happy life.

I just found out 3 weeks ago too... and I'm glad to have found this site. He had an affair on me after 10 years and he wants to work it out and try to fix things. One of the things I told him before anything, was if he really wanted to fix things and he really did love me, he'd go no contact- period. He deleted her from his phone, facebook, twitter... everything. I really feel that in order to fix things no contact is the only way.

Thanks for all the replies. Bigger- I'm going to try your suggestion, it makes sense. Will let you know how I get on. A thousand thank you's....

Well, Bigger! I had the chat you and others have recommended. Laid out my position as clearly as possible. For me, it made total sense. I felt better for saying it, which was nice. Her reaction? Goodbye then. Apparently it's not for me to give her ultimatums in any form, and I can't expect her to commit 100% to our marriage, as she only believes that I'LL change "about 10%."

She then burst into tears, accusing me of having a go at her and telling her what to think. She told me to pack my stuff and go, to which unsurprisingly I said I had no intention of doing, I want to commit to saving our marriage not ending it, and she could no more tell me to leave than I could tell her to how to think or what decisions to make (following on from the "I can't tell you to end the affair, but can tell you how I feel when it is still on going" line).

I may be wrong, but this says to me that she is not ready to even begin to accept what she has done, take ownership of it and start to right the wrongs. I've been up front and said what I need to do to improve myself, she has been negative and said what I can't make her do or say.

Where we go from here I have no idea. I'll let the dust settle and then see where the land lies. What made me even calmer than normal to her response is when she said she'd not heard from him today, when I know that is not true as her pattern of only being on the phone when I'm out of the room and then shutting it off very quickly when I return has been done several times today. Has she forgotten that I know the signs by now?

Sigh..........

I am so sorry for you. I wish lots of strength for you now and in the months ahead.

You saw the signs of this coming several months ago. Then you confirmed that it did happen. Then you learned it was still happening. Then you suffered the pain of her not having any remorse. None. I know how much that hurts. I know how impossible that makes it to seriously consider R.

So, now you have heard even more. She said, I guess it's over. Have you spoken with an attorney yet? At this point, it sounds like she wants out, doesn't it? I mean, I'm sorry, but really...I'm not trying to be cute here...but she's not going to send you a certified letter.

Can you see it? You told her how much you were hurting and pleaded that she would need to stop, or you would have no choice but to leave. She then tells you, Well, goodbye then. What do you think that means?

You need to talk to an attorney, not so much for yourself, but for the sake of the children. Someone needs to be thinking about their best interests right now.

FYI, my situation wasn't too much different than yours. My wife continued her affair after I discovered that it was going on. I asked her to move out and I looked after the children. We went from there.

Good luck to you my friend.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 4:06 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]

Bob,

Until she 100% commits to EVERYTHING you've requested, then it's time change your focus. It's now about your kids and your healing.

Detact,physically and emotionally for her. All conversations should consist of

logistics involving kids and finances. Nothimg else.. She's basically now on her own. If you haven't read up on the180 do so.

Contact an A and begin D proceedings.

Remember, you get to decide whether the M survives. You now hold all thr cards.

[This message edited by jimbo25319 at 10:51 PM, October 14th (Sunday)]

I strongly suspect she had an Exit Affair. Whatever the deceptions were early in your marriage that she discovered later apparently were deal-breakers for her, but she had two kids and didn't want to take the leap without having a soft landing by finding a potential new spouse. Wrong to do it, but married people do this all too often.

But maybe the next time you are in counseling, start from there. If the deceptions were blown up in her head bigger than they were, talking about them might give her more clarity about the marriage. Maybe when you didn't like her disagreeing she saw it as bullying and you just saw yourself as being the devil's advocate in arguments over housework to politics? There are some regional cultures where arguing and debating is considered intellectually stimulating, and some where it's considered offensive. Two different thoughts on this can lead to misunderstandings and trouble.

It might be these deceptions were small things, to you, and are mainly excuses since you said she was interested in the OM in the beginning.

Or it might be understandable if the deceptions were marital deal-breakers for her if these deceptions were huge things she was unprepared to handle. Here's a list of biggie deceptions: addictions, the spouse is bisexual, the spouse is in the Mafia :D or hs 10 children from five previous marriage, that spouse has to cook for every weekend and she's paying for their support because you're not in the CIA after all, but unemployed.

OK .. I exaggerate.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 11:22 PM, October 14th (Sunday)]

Bob

Here is how you can end your wife's affair.

You pack up a bag for her and your kids.

Drop them off at the OM's house.

Send an email to your WW, the OM and both of your families.

The email should say this:

" dear wife,

I no longer choose to live with your infidelity. I have dropped off your clothes and the kids clothes at his home. You and the children are his responsibility now.

I wish you the best in your life and that you find happiness. I will have the divorce papers sent to your new home."

Exposé the Affair. Show her real consequences.

And now she will not have to lie.

See how long her affair lasts now......

HM64

She was disrespecting you for long and giving you sloppy seconds. You found her banging OM, still she continued it. Why should she stop having her fun and excitement when there is no consequences for banging OM? Why should she stop when you are only begging her to stop her A? Its like asking a Alcoholic to stop drinking.

I think you are too passive about dealing with the A.

Why cant you throw her stuff at OMs house?

[This message edited by kannan at 8:48 AM, October 15th (Monday)]

Do what is best for you in your situation, take the advice you want from here and leave the rest. It sucks and is hard to hear as I know you want her back and want to try and "fix her", but you can't.

Her head is so far up her ass that logical conversation is not going to have an effect. You have to start looking out for yourself and your kids and start self-protecting. For me it was complete NC with her unless it was kids & money. Anything else just brought new pain and I'd get sucked back in to trying to fix her. It is a shitty cycle so find what is best for you to heal and start to pick up the pieces.

Keep reading and re-reading these posts; I had to hear it 10 times since I thought my situation was different. I realized the advice I was given was accurate as they all act selfish and similar.