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I asked her point blank today if she wanted to reconcile or not. I told her I do understand what i did was incredibly wrong and if she wanted I would understand her wanting me gone. But we had to decide something because this not talking to each other was killing me. She told me she knew it would be hard but she wanted to stay together!!!!

CN, I read your post and I am going to be point blank with you. You are exactly where my WW was 1.5 years ago. You are still going about this from the perspective of what you need. You basically forced your wife into making a decision she may or may not have been ready to make. So let me tell you from experience what you are going to do to your wife if you don't change. It may be 2 months from now or 2 years. You wife gave you the validation and answer you wanted to hear when she said she wanted to stay. However the problem is you got the high you were looking for and you have energy now. What happens when 2 months or 2 years down the road you have not done the work and the black hole inside you is still there. Yoru wife will here the issues you complain about in the M prior to the A and try to change herself to help YOU. She doesn't have SI to point her in the right direction. You see the changes she makes for YOU but you still arent' happy and can't figure out why. You likely won't even realize why you aren't happy and want to give up. Best case scenario for her you give up on the marriage again but instead of cheating you just tell your wife you want to leave or divorce because you aren't happy. This will destroy her all over again. Worst case scenario you will cheat again destroying her again as well. Either way she will resent you more because she put in effort to stay when she could have walked away and saved those months and years of pain of false R and began healing herself. And when she reaches that point it will be too late for you to get your act together. The crazy part is you may even be 100% in at trying to R but it will not work for you and the old feelings of contempt, discontent, and unhappiness will creep back in because you won't have fixed the problem in you.

She will never be able to fix you or help you fix yourself. Do not settle for a return to the status quo in your household. It will not work. you have to form a new M since you killed the old M. The way you make sure you have the best chance of the R and the new M sticking is to fix yourself now on your own. If you don't fix yourself now you will devastate your family again and this will be 1000 times worse because she chose to stay and work and it failed again. She will think the time she spent trying to put your M back together was a huge waste and she could have been that much further down the road to her own healing. At that point you will be dead to her.

As a BS I have said my peace and I wish you the best. I leave you in the capable hands of the WS's around here. Keep posting and listen to them.

Noah, you remind me of a little boy I knew whose mother had life-threatening situation that required surgery, and while she was still weak and recovering at home, he kept throwing a tantrum, screaming that she wasn't playing with him enough and that he wanted to go live with the preschool teacher instead because she told him he was the best at coloring than anyone else in the class.

Except he was 3 and had an excuse of being 3.

Even if you divorce and go to the OW, you won't be escaping back to your single years of being hot guy getting hot sex and no responsibility and never having to do anything you don't "feel" like doing or having any "spark" to do it. I don't feel like cleaning the toilet, but I'm going to do it today anyhow. It's a grown-up, mature thing.

Even if you leave, you will have three children to raise, to pay child-support for, possibly alimony for a time depending on circumstances, and the wife to deal with the rest of your life even if she's your ex, since she's their mother and will be there even when the kids have their own kids.

And your OW might want a kid, might nag at you for forgetting to stop by the grocery store, get ticked off at having your three kids underfoot every other weekend, having to go to your kids' ballgames, school plays etc . - and you'll have that mortgage or rent to pay with utilities, groceries etc. on top of child support, and the sex will be married sex again at some point if you go to her, because that's just life.

When you go to the counselor, you need to ask about how to work on empathy.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 12:45 PM, December 1st (Saturday)]

I don't know yet how I am going to keep us connected. I've been trying to talk to her through the day but she hasn't been open to it.

You must earn back trust, if you can, through dedication, hard work, and consistent and utterly complete selfless action. It’s all on you. Forcing her to do anything could be counterproductive. She doesn’t trust you at-all right now. Se doesn’t even trust herself. Her safest and easiest option right now is to simply stay emotionally detached from you to prevent you from hurting her more. And remember, your words are meaningless. You used up your blind-trust free card with her. You earn her trust through actions, through time.

Even if recovery does not work out for you, the things you will learn about yourself and others is still worth learning. Drugs, alcohol, abuse, and FOO issues, if they have existed in your life, are likely the reason why you are acting the way you are. You need to work these issues for yourself. You need to understand that your program is wrong.

CN, my BBF went out tonight and it hits me so hard lately this feeling of lonliness and panic when he is not with me. He tells me I have to start to engage and enjoy non BBF related things and I told him I do but the going out in the evening to hang out thing I will only do with friends that we can both trust and of those I have 2. One is married and has her own life to deal with though she has been amazing. The other is single and enjoys clubbing and bar hopping. She and I used to go out a lot pre-A and before D-Day. We've gone out for dinner once since D-Day and though we talk a lot we have not seen each other because she likes to party and I feel it best I stay away from all that. Also pre-A I didn't go out that often, once a month or so with the firend I mentioned but mostly stayed home. I told BBF that and he said yes and you see how well that worked, I told him its when I started going out a lot that stuff began to happen and he said yea because you went form never doing it to doing it all the time and you lost control. You need to find things in yourself and control in yourself to enjoy life without me at times. I'm always going to come back home but I want to believe you had fun that night too. I nodded and he left.

There is a reason for all this explanation. Yes I have his support and love NOW but he still needs me to work on finding me, and I can't rely on his strength to do that. I truly thought I didn't have it in me when this all began and sometimes I still feel like falling to my knees and despairing, if you read my posts you'll understand this. Throughout all this I have also had to come to terms with the fact that we may now never marry after 10 years because he feels marriage is a facade. The other thing I still have to deal with..his indifference to what I did. He yelled at me one day that if I went out and had sex with another guy as long as I told him I was going to do it he didn't give a shit. I told him that I would never do it again and he told me whether you will or won't I don't care, I don't give a shit. I don't know why your situation brought this memory back to me.

CN I shared all this with you because I know you're going through a rough time and I just wanted to share that no matter whether she supports you or not, you still have to put in the work. The moments of silence will haunt you, as will the things said in anger. All of it must be taken and dealt with while still working on you. I hope your BW and baby are doing well and I hope you are taking time to understand you and heal.

I am ashamed that I am a WS. I absolutely destroyed my best friend, confidant, lover, and spouse. That we have reconciled is a testament to her strength despite my many weaknesses.

I've read your posts, and while I see the words, I don't see you walking the talk. It looks to me like lip service. You've read the posts, and responded based on what you think you SHOULD say. I don't see any blood in your commitment.

Maybe I'm way off base, but it's been 8 years since Rstarted and my BW will NEVER be the woman she was before I betrayed her. Our relationship will never be what it was, and perhaps that's okay, but because we worked together we've built a stronger more committed relationship.

If you want to have a hope of reconciliation YOU have to be committed - regardless of how she feels. This is not tit-for-tat quid pro quo deal.

You broke it - you have to fix it. Everything else is just bullshit. Stop waiting for to change her response to your A, and start manning up that you need to take responsibility and the lead to R.

You sound like you want a guarantee from your wife that all will be forgiven before you will put in effort to "try" to R. What's up with that? All about you.

[This message edited by Mikki3 at 8:34 PM, December 1st (Saturday)]

CN, I think it's wonderful that you have a chance to reconcile. You have confessed, you wrote a real NC, you have started thinking about what you can do to change.

I do want to tell you that if your need for validation drove you to an affair, it's not just something about you, it's something you need to work on. Again, lots of people have these needs, and you CAN and MUST learn to feel happier and more secure with yourself. This would be a classic issue to work on in IC.

You've acknowledged that you've lost the "mushiness" with your wife because the rest of your lives happened. With another child, you will be more busy, not less. I don't think it's terrible that you want someone to talk to. Let me ask a silly question: how about making some MALE friends?

As a married man, it's generally not healthy for you to have close relationships with other women, so it's good that you are going to work on your boundaries there.

I think people are responding to the fact that you seem kinda high off the reaction you have from your wife, and that you are counting on her working on meeting your needs. Keep an eye on reality: next week, she may tell you to shove your emotional needs. She's still going to be hurt, angry, resentful, distant, etc, etc, etc. So it's not just about the two of you returning to your blissful past. Please recognize that you DO need a lot of individual work, or you WILL end up in the same place.

There's something called the "hot/cold empathy gap." Now that your wife has given you something to hold onto, you can't wait to start fixing everything. As you said, you're shocked at yourself that you almost reached out to OW. Well, guess what? You will feel lonely and unloved again, and all the reasons you had an affair will come rushing back. You need to be ready to address these feelings yourself, not count on your wife to validate you.

Also, not to completely abuse you, but you did hurt your children -- you modeled affair behavior for them, and if you aren't able to change this, they will learn that this is what real love is. They will be much more likely to love cheaters, or become cheaters themselves.

Again, I am really happy you've begun your journey, and I wish you and your family the best.

I hurt so badly for your wife. She is pregnant and alone and you think it is all about you. I don't think I have ever looked at a marriage other than my own and say they should not be together.

I think it's normal or at least expected that a WS think about reaching out or making contact somehow...

My WH struggled with that even though he never told me, I found out much later. It was the 2nd time he broke nc. The third was the final chance he was ever getting from me and he knew it 1000%. He was so used to MOW agreeing with him on everything. Even when he was having a nervous breakdown and needed to take anti depressants . She would tell him he was perfect and didn't need any pills. I was the bad guy in her eyes and she convinced him. He felt alone because I wasn't giving him all the attention. He felt the Withdrawls and nearly made contact but instead sucked it up and got depressed for a few months and got through it.

There is no easy solution.

My H started making comments that I could trust him but knew I didn't and this bothered him for months. I knew he was doing all the right things. But I didn't get a pat on the back, a trophy or bonus for being faithful??? So he doesn't deserve praise for doing what everyone should do.

I questioned some things I found on his phone not related to any woman but still I let him know that I am not hiding if I happen to check his phone or email etc... He was not defensive at all and answered my questions, without any of the tell tale signs of lying that he used to have. Scratching his ear, looking to the side or down, playing with his wedding ring.

He told me " I know you don't trust me even though I've been totally transparent for a while and I'm committed 100%. But I destroyed the trust" I was honest with him and said even though I knew that he's been working so hard and now it's just natural it's not a sacrifice! I let him know that the trauma he caused was so deep that my brain will always keep my guard up to some degree. I was open and expressed that after 2 false R, so many lies, defending her, feeling bad for her and her family instead of ours, me catching the, together, pictures , videos....

He apologized again lastnight.

He says this has left a permanent stain on him and our marriage.

He used to act just like you are now, he was upset because I wasn't praising him, being super affectionate like MOW used to. He was totally in the fog then. He expected R to be much easier while in the fog. Once he saw things clearly he was just thankful for the chance he has.

The fact that your wife is pregnant is another reason for her actions also.

It's difficult enough to deal with insecurity, hormones and discomfort while pregnant. She may not be showing you how she really feels but TRUST ME, sheis feeling every single thing and analyzing and trying to truly accept this happened.

It takes a long time to get through this, so work on yourself while you help her heal. A nice little gesture goes along way. She may not react outwardly how you would want but believe me she is acknowledging any effort you put.

If you don't fix yourself now you will devastate your family again and this will be 1000 times worse because she chose to stay and work and it failed again. She will think the time she spent trying to put your M back together was a huge waste and she could have been that much further down the road to her own healing. At that point you will be dead to her.

7yrsflushed said it all. My BS could have written this.

Read this over and over again. This is what will happen if you don't fix what is broken inside of you. Time to do the work in now.

Good luck CN.

I told her I do understand what i did was incredibly wrong and if she wanted I would understand her wanting me gone. But we had to decide something because this not talking to each other was killing me.

BS here.

It's usually recommended that the BS not make a decision for six months to a year on whether to R. You insisted she decide immediately. You made it about you rather than about her. What would you have done if she said she'd let you know in 6-12 months? Could you take it?

When you start to think about what you need, stop and instead think about what SHE needs. Make this your new way of life for the next 2-5 years (although I think we should all do this all of the time, baby steps!). None of this will happen overnight and you forced a decision on her that shouldn't have been forced. But it's done. So now, focus on giving her what she needs ahead of worrying about what you need.

I'm glad you told her. I'm glad she wants to try. Don't let her (and yourself) down now. Help her heal.

You've gotten a lot of 2 x 4s and yet you keep posting. That says a lot. Good luck.

BS here.

On the plus side, as everyone is telling you, you really don't need to worry about who to put first any more. It's very easy and simple- it's not you. Seriously, once you do the reading here and in the healing library, get to IC and MC, it should be what you realize and want to do if you want to be with your wife forever. When she's stronger and in a better place with the gut wrenching, unbelievable pain she's in, she will be able to raise her head up and see you again. She will start to heal herself as long as you support that. If you want a life together, make it happen.

I know it feels like you're getting hammered on but people post because they truly care about you, your BW, and what happens to your marriage. People really are rooting for you and your family to have a healthy outcome.

You're not hopeless or helpless at all Noah. I see moments of great clarity in your posts. Even though I'm a BS, I totally understand that it can be easier to go with your emotions of the moment rather than think past them to the longer term outcome. Long term, time, just feels like such a dirty phrase sometimes.

It's hard. Emotions are not right or wrong, they just are, but they are temporary and unreliable when it comes to making decisions. It's when you push pass those emotions to make the better decision, even when it's not what your feeling at the moment, that you will start to heal.

At the moment, your immediate concern, is to focus on taking care of your children and your unborn child. Make the right choice for them today, breathe, and then make the right choice for them tomorrow.

Baby steps. We want to help you.

....

Edited.

[This message edited by metamorphisis at 8:20 PM, December 14th (Friday)]

^^^^^^^^

Huh? Really?

I'm with Sister...there's something odd about this.

Popcorn saga indeed. Wow.

Am i the only person who doesn't know what this is? I am confused.

CheaterNoah,

In a previous thread, you mentioned being frustrated that your BW seemingly wasn't showing emotions. It sounds like she is showing emotions now - anger, disgust, many others - and it sounds now like you're saying she's not trying.

(1) Please acknowledge her feelings. What is she feeling right now, CheaterNoah? Within the anger and disgust, is there pain? Do you feel compassion for her pain? What do you imagine her journey as a BS must be like? Saying she's not trying is not only invalidating her pain, it is compounding it.

(2) Focus on your actions for a moment. It sounds like you're experiencing denial. You're not wanting to feel how hurtful your affair was to your wife and children. As much as you might want an easy solution, it doesn't work that way. If you truly wish to change, you have to feel it. Don't push away the guilt. Accept it. It's going to feel really shitty for a long time, but use those feelings to motivate yourself to change.

My wife is a woman who has CRIED because another woman (Emma actually) texted me.

Is Emma the OW? If so, that's not something to make light of. In fact, really think about that - your wife was crying because this girl (who she didn't realize you were sleeping with) was texting you. And you let her keep crying and went back to "Emma" and slept with her again. How does that make you feel to acknowledge that?

It's possible to change, but it has to come from your own willingness to change. Blaming your wife and criticizing her reactions, is willfulness - pushing away the truth. It will get exhausting to run from yourself and the truth after a while. Surrender.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:27 PM, December 14th (Friday)]

Umm wow

ProbableIceCream.. Do NOT bring drama from another board over here. If you have a concern about another member bring it to a moderator.