SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

all I can think of again and again as I read this thread...."the lady is pregnant, wtf do you want from her".

So sad. CN you've been told again and again that you are full of "poor me". You thought that telling her about the affair would make things better.....NO, it gets worse before it gets better. I'm surprised that you're surprised that this did not happen.

Apologize again and again to her. And if she doesn't respond to your apology the way you expect her to, don't get all pissy.

But most of all, recognize that there is a beautiful baby growing inside of her, and that baby needs calm. Mom seems to be trying to provide that (though I don't know how she isn't smacking you for your attitude). The kindest thing you could do for your wife is to understand that you messed up, big time, and you have to be committed for the long haul...and to do that you have to do whatever it takes.

Stop your pity party.

Somebody here suggested that you get your wife onto this site for help. and that would be a wonderful idea. But, then she might read your posts, esp. the one about not having your OW anymore, and that might bring out anger she probably doesn't even know she has.

You have a lot of work to do. Are you even willing to do it, without complaint?

I get the feeling that you don't want help understanding her. You want someone to tell you what to do and have everything wrapped up in a nice, neat package. First this will happen, then you do this...then this will happen, then you do that. And do you see what the problem is there? It's all for you...all for your comfort, all for your pain, all for healing how YOU want to heal. She is the victim. She is the betrayed. She is the one who has the answers. And she has every right to be so traumatized right now to not know how to give them...especially if you just want them to make you comfortable.

CN~ YOU need to be the one to fix this.

YOU need to be the one to offer her help.

YOU need to be the one to initiate everything.

YOU need to be PATIENT!

YOU need to be supportive & understanding.

However, if you have no remorse for what you have done, then you will not be able to do this! Remorse is not to be confused with regret. They are different.

It seems to me you aren't really remorseful.

I know I suggested this before and if you haven't done so, please read "THINGS EVERY WS NEEDS TO KNOW". It is in the WS forum. I tried to find what page it was on, but, didn't have enough time. You may have to go back quite a few pages to find it.

It is really helpful not only for you but, for your BW. She should really read it too.

I printed it out for my WS and so glad I did, as was he.

I think that post should be in The Healing Library. I can't believe it hasn't made it in there.

Maybe, one day, someone on SI could put it in there.

Even though you were the one that caused this devastating mess, I'm sure you don't know how to "fix" it.

Educate yourself CN!! READ READ READ!! Don't expect your BW to do this for you.

[This message edited by carey at 4:16 PM, November 30th (Friday)]

"Things Every Wayward Spouse Needs to Know" is on page 1 of the wayward forum it was bumped recently.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

read this one too, The Life Boat:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=354101

[This message edited by Unagie at 4:16 PM, November 30th (Friday)]

Oh for fucks sake.

You told your wife because you wanted her to fight for you. The triangle is validating and feeds you.

That's why you've been researching the BW's here.

I trust their knowledge. I have a different take on your wife and posted that to you from the beginning. You didn't understand it.

Everyone is telling you to man up and make the choice to commit. I don't think you have that choice anymore.

I think you misread your wife badly mistaking her insecurity in the marriage for this drive to hold on to you. I see it as fighting herself against what she's afraid she married. Once you confirmed no more fight. Just done, but not in a place to be.

I don't think the anger is coming. I think it's come and gone long ago. I know it did for me. Not to say that my ex couldn't have change that with hard work but detached is mild for what I felt.

I'm really not sure why you're here. You don't show any desire to work on yourself. Just seem to be studying the BS's here for what you want to see from yours.

Think that's rather scary, to say the least. I think your wife is very smart to detach and take care of herself and her baby. You aren't someone she can trust to do that at all.

Cheater Noah I am afraid UncertainOne is bang on:

You told your wife because you wanted her to fight for you. The triangle is validating and feeds you.

That is all i see in your recent posts - Your affair I believe is classc attention seeking, to the point that when that wasn't getting enough attention you disclosed to get validation through your wifes pain.

Here is some reading on triangles:

http://peterfox.com.au/family_triangles.htm

Your wife is showing great self preservation and courage to not buy into your power and control dynamic.

Are you strong enough to get well? Are you strong enough to look this in the face and understand what you have committed on your wife, your child, yourself and your marriage? And choose to be well?

MegM

she won't look at me, won't talk to me, and acts like I don't exist.

She hasn't spoken to me at all in 5 days.

I am curious about what this looks like. You come home from work, put your things down, say "hello" to her, and then what? She turns around and walks away? Are you sitting down for meals with her and the kids? If not, why? Will she answer a question if presented to her? Such as, "Is the chicken too hot?" Simple yes or no statements? Does she retreat to another room when you walk in the door?

You say she is giving you nothing. Just trying to figure out what your definition of nothing is. If she is engaging in yes or no questions then she is giving you something. If you honestly don't know if she will engage in these questions then that is an entirely different thing all together.

She may be silent, but I guarantee she is watching, paying close attention to what it is you are doing, or not doing for that matter. Since she has been giving you the silent treatment what have you been doing? Have you been sitting out in the open writing a timeline, journaling to figure out your whys, making heartfelt attempts to talk with her, apologizing even when her back is turned to you, finding an IC, maybe writing letters to her that she can read while you are at work? She doesn't need to say anything for you to communicate with her. Just sitting next to her while reading "Not Just Friends" or taking over with dinner and helping with the kids says a lot about where you are and what you want.

Sitting back, waiting for her to give you a sign that she is ready to R will get you nowhere fast. Right now you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. What's the worse that can happen? You throw yourself into healing yourself and do all you can to save your M. She could reject you. She has every right to. But if you are doing the work on yourself in the meantime, I promise you that you will be fine either way.

I understand being afraid to be alone. I consider myself fortunate that I am not alone. I am one of the lucky ones. But I worked really hard too. If my BH were to come to me tomorrow and tell me that he just can't do this anymore, I know I would be OK. I would be heartbroken, but I know I would be able to come out of it all just fine. If you do the work you can be OK too. Do the work and be a better husband, father, man.

The only part that should be about you are the parts that help shape you into a healthier person.

BW and I sent our kids to stay with the grandparents again and once we dropped them off it was a complete shift. That person that didn't care, didn't react, didn't have emotion was gone. She started in on me in the car and it wasn't quite anger but it was more of just her being stunned at me. She asked me why again and we talked about things a little more on the way home and I let her say what she wanted to say. She opened up to me a lot and told me how she never ever wanted this to happen and how hurt she was that I would do this to her. That she felt betrayed and broken and that seeing me made her feel awful. BW wasn't saying anything because she didn't want to create a scene in front of our kids and because she wasn't ready yet. So it was wrong of me to be impatient with her.

My wife has always been really emotional and jealous so how she was reacting completely threw me off. I think it was shock like a lot of you said. She is hurt by what I did and it is a big, big deal to her.

I asked her point blank today if she wanted to reconcile or not. I told her I do understand what i did was incredibly wrong and if she wanted I would understand her wanting me gone. But we had to decide something because this not talking to each other was killing me. She told me she knew it would be hard but she wanted to stay together!!!! Once she said that I told her I wanted to start making stronger steps and sending out an official NC letter and give her a timeline and everything else.

So about an hour ago we sent out a new no contact message that was stronger than before. BW, helped me write out the letter and we sent it to the number I've been talking to OW on.

OW,

Our affair was a mistake and never should have happened. It was cruel and hurtful to my wife and children. I regret every second of our affair. I am committed to doing whatever it takes to fix my marriage and be the man my wife and children deserve. Move on with your life and leave me alone. Do not ever contact me again.

I also offered BW a timeline but she doesn't want to read it right now. She says she does want to know though and has questions. Just not right now.

I'm not insensitive to the pain BW is going through and that I caused. I'm just a person who struggles when I'm feeling distant and alone. Its what caused the affair in large part. I want us to become closer and I did tell BW that today. She promised she would do more and talk to me again and I am going to work on fixing myself and work on why I risked everything and why I feel the way I do about the affair.

Anyways today was a very good day for us and just what we needed. BW opened up to me some and I think we started to take some positive steps for us.

To respond to the many, many comments.

I would imagine the pregnancy might make her react differently than some. If know if I had found out when I was pregnant, I likely would have tried very hard to put it out of my mind just to protect the pregnancy.

I think she may have just gone very deeply into self-preservation mode and ignoring you may be part of her way of protecting herself and your baby-to-be.

Carrying a child is a very bonding experience for most women and their partners. I'm guessing it has not been for the two of you. You likely have been distant during her pregnancy and now she likely feels that she doesnt' know who you are at all.

Please be gentle with her. She needs you to start giving, which you cannot have been doing while "in love" with another woman. Try to start now. Good luck.

This pregnancy hasn't brought us closer and we have been distant. Before the affair even.

She said this too. She just doesn't want to think about it. That she is still struggling to accept I could have done this too her. And that she can't take the stress right now.

I asked her to tell me things she wanted from me and she gave me a small list and I am going to do those things for her. I want to take some pressure off her and let her be. I've been checked out for too long.

Seriously?? That doesn't 'sound' selfish - It IS selfish.

Not sharing the site that helped you when you needed it, is incredibly selfish.

CheaterNoah, wake up. If you truly want to save your M then give her access to get support from others. You scheduled MC, but you need to do more. Telling her about SI as well as purchasing books for you both to read will prove to her that you really, really want your M back.

She needs the support. At least tell her about SI and let HER make the decision if she wants to seek support here.

I've read hundreds of post over the past weeks on SI. I know I have a ways to go as a WH and I think I know what people would tell her. Not good things. So can you understand my hesitation?

MC is a go and I've been printing off articles and I've ordered a couple books online and am waiting for them to arrive.

What I get out of your posts is that you preceived your BW wasn't giving you all the adoration you thought you deserved. IMHO, I think that you had the A as a way to punish your BW and to shake her up so that she would fall at your feet and beg you to love her again. That she would shower you with attention and whorship you. When that didn't happen, it threw you in a tailspin and now you are wondering what went wrong? Why isn't she screaming, crying, depressed, peppering you with a million questions, and clinging to your legs begging you not to leave her? Why would she CN? She is the victim in all of this, not you.

God, that was brutal to read. There was a lot of hard truth in your post and I wanted to let you know I did read it. Her response stunned me. That isn't my wife. My wife is a woman who has CRIED because another woman (Emma actually) texted me. She isn't this silent or brooding or unemotional. I thought she would react in that way because that is how she has in the past to things like this. But I should feel for her more and I will try to.

He is like you. Never really committed...too much hard work to look at yourself and SEE what you have done.

It's been 2 years now. His fog lifted. My WS now tells me he regrets every single thing he did. He didn't SEE me...he built in his head who I was, so he could happily continue his affair. He doesn't get to see his kids but a few days a month now. Everyone in my family hates him. He lost most of his friends Everyone at work gossips about him. He has to split holidays, he misses all the school functions, his kids see him as some fun plaything. He is a stranger in his kids lives. He lives on 25% of what he used to pay wise...the rest goes to me and the children. He sees me for who I am now. A person that was willing to take the most devastating news, and still TRY to make it work. He knows that I will never, never, never try again with him. He destroyed any tiny piece of love I had left.

Thank you for posting your story. I sincerely mean that too. My wife is willing to make it work and I am going to make the most of the situation. I am going to be more grateful for her.

You feel you need this to continue the M, due to the fact that you need to feel wanted and desired.

So, I hear what you are saying in your last post, I really do. And what you have said in your other posts. And you have been asked the question as to whether or not you can do this, and you have answered honestly, you don't know. I think you have been honest about that, because you look at yourself and you do see someone who has a desperate need to have someone validating him all the time. Your wife is not doing that, and has not done that for some time.

Thank you for understanding. I never expected my BW to do everything for me. I just wanted and probably needed some sign she cares. Its probably something that I should work on but I need and I thrive on having positive attention. Sometimes that is good and sometimes that is bad like with this whole affair. I cared more about OW's positive words and attention than her itself. And I have been really, really honest about where I am and what I am thinking. Maybe I should be filtering more. I don't know. Its just so hard to be alone in your marriage. My wife was rejecting affection before the affair too.

But we are doing better today. I'm going to try to focus on the positives. My BW let me kiss her before she went to bed which meant so much to me and I am going to remember that. She wants to reconcile and she said that to me. Another good sign. I know her emotions are going to be all over hte place and I am going to work on being more patient.

I'm sorry for the self-pity I was showing in the earlier posts. It was wrong. And I'm sorry for not responding and updating sooner.

Thanks,

Noah

A question. If your wife withdraws again down the road, because she's feeling overwhelmed or doesn't want to upset the kids etc., will you have the same reaction you had this time? Where you begin to question your commitment to your M and where you begin to idealize the OW?

I posted this on someone else's thread the other day: you can't expect another person to complete you. You have to know that if you're in a situation on your own, you will act the right way and make the right choices, because you're a strong enough person to do so. How are you going to get to that point? What do YOU need to work on? Not your wife, YOU Noah.

How are you going to be a safe person - for your wife, for your unborn child, for your kids, and for yourself?

A question. If your wife withdraws again down the road, because she's feeling overwhelmed or doesn't want to upset the kids etc., will you have the same reaction you had this time? Where you begin to question your commitment to your M and where you begin to idealize the OW?

I posted this on someone else's thread the other day: you can't expect another person to complete you. You have to know that if you're in a situation on your own, you will act the right way and make the right choices, because you're a strong enough person to do so. How are you going to get to that point? What do YOU need to work on? Not your wife, YOU Noah.

How are you going to be a safe person - for your wife, for your unborn child, for your kids, and for yourself?

I think our goal should be to make sure we don't let our marriage get to that place again. I'm going to work on keeping our relationship involved. But if she was to disappear on me for months on end would I question my committment to her.... I don't know. I wouldn't cheat again. I think if I get to that place I would tell her and we should try to fix it. I can't help how I *feel*. All I can do is control my actions.

That is a fair point about depending on another person. When me and BW were at our best we were so close together. I thought she was part of me and I part of her and that was maybe not the healthiest thing. I depended on BW for everything and shared everything with her. We were that mushy couple and thing with that is its not really sustainable when life gets stressful. When that closeness left I was kind of lost and I looked for it elsewhere. And with OW I found someone who wanted that and was willing to give me that attention and affection. I don't really know how I can change that. I am working on not becoming close with other women and building better boundaries.

I think the questions you are asking are really, really hard to answer. How do I become a *safer* person? I'm not going to cheat or lie or disappear for hours on end. And my attention will be on them alone. Also I really resent the implication I'm not safe for my children. I am a good dad and I love my kids and I would never, ever hurt them.

Also I really resent the implication I'm not safe for my children. I am a good dad and I love my kids and I would never, ever hurt them.

t/j

My mother cheated on my stepmother, and my stepmother left. I found out years later she had cheated on my father with one of his best friends. She destroyed my family and my sense of stability TWICE with her selfishness.

I know she loved me and she cared... but she didn't keep me safe emotionally with her decision to step outside her/our relationships/family. It felt like she cheated on me too.

End t/j

I think you have a lot more work to do, and you know that too. This is the beginning. Don't be discouraged. Face it head on. Struggle with it. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it if you stick with it all the way through.

But if she was to disappear on me for months on end

Why would you wait months on end before you say something? For that matter - your reaction to her was over the last two weeks since D-Day, not months on end (you wrote that on D-Day you saw her fall apart and sit on the floor crying for two hours, correct?). In what ways were you reaching out over the last two weeks? What conversations were you having with her? Again, why would you wait months on end? Wouldn't you try to be open and communicate every single day? It helps if you're the one who initiates right now, especially because she's still reeling. How will you keep initiating, starting right now? The kids won't be at the grandparents' forever, so how will you stay connected even when they are around? And not limited to MC sessions. She'll need support and healing every single day. How will you stay connected, initiate the connection to her everyday?

Now is a time to make newer, healthier habits. Lots to think about.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:12 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]

I'll concede that point about safety and kids. Its what I like about posting here, everyone has so many different perspectives. I guess I was hurting them indirectly with the cheating and that was wrong. Sometimes I think I don't really want to think that. I want to tell myself I'm keeping them safe but I risked their happiness for basically my own happiness. And that is really fucked up of me to do. Like my wife said, how could I?

And to think I came so close to reaching out to OW again. Its pathetic really. How fucking screwed up is that?

I'm glad we sent out the NC letter together and that I know my BW *wants* us to work out. That is all I needed. A sign that we might make it. Now, I am going to put everything I can into us.

About your questions. I don't know yet how I am going to keep us connected. I've been trying to talk to her through the day but she hasn't been open to it. She says she will try more so I can hope there. I think I want what I had with OW with BW (which sounds wrong to say). I would call OW on my way to work, after work, when I was bored and just talk and listen to her. And I didn't even like her or care really about what she was saying. I just wanted someone to be close too. I want that with my BW but I don't have a clue how we get to that point again. Where she is excited to see me or hear me and me her. I am going to try to talk to my wife more honestly and when I have an issue to be honest and direct.

All I see is lather, rinse, repeat.

I see nothing that is sustainable for your wife. I see nothing that won't build resentment towards you.

You want your wife to be your mistress, the same mistress that you say you dont even like as a person, its just nice having a personal ego kibble vending machine handy for those midday hunger pangs.

CN, I have two books that i think you could benefit from greatly. I believe you should really read Not Just Friends, for your issues on boundaries, both inside your marriage and with people outside your marriage. 5 Love Languages, to better understand how to show your BS that you truly care for her. How to help your spouse heal from your affair, the title really tells you why.My BS and I have had some success with the marriage sherpa system, but i think it may be a hit or miss thing.Later, you should also read passionate marriage by Dr. David Schnarch, which should help with your issues involving your need for such closeness that without it you go into a tailspin. All of these are just suggestions, but most of that list has been strongly recommended to you, and just about every other wayward that has posted with the question of "what do i do now? How can we ever recover from this?" Good luck CN. we all have need of strength. And show your BS this site, she has a much need of it a you do. I am thankful my BS had it, and shared it with me. It's also a good way to show her you are trying.

CN

I would call OW on my way to work, after work, when I was bored and just talk and listen to her. And I didn't even like her or care really about what she was saying. I just wanted someone to be close too. I want that with my BW but I don't have a clue how we get to that point again.

My FWH had a PA with OW1 for several months in 1994. I didn't find out about this until 2010. She divorced her BH and tried to get FWH to leave me for her. He refused. She moved away and remarried a couple of years later. She returned to our town I think in about 1998 (she had no ties here) and then began a EA that lasted until dday. She and FWH would phone each other and talk for hours each week. FWH befriended her husband. It still puzzles me why her husband never wondered about me. I had never heard of these people!!!

During their phone calls they would call each other pet names. She would console and advise him about his other OWs. He would talk to her about her husband. They shared how miserable they were in their marriages. They spent lots of time telling each other how wonderful the other was. It was a real admiration partnership. Meanwhile I was at home, oblivious to his double life, dealing with a moody and distant husband, 2 kids, bills I couldn't pay (and he never seemed interested in) and working my arse off in a full time job. Her BH was also working hard to build a life for them. FWH could talk to me lots, and I listened, about himself. When I had something to say he was too busy to be interested. We grew apart. But I NEVER envisioned him cheating. I thought we were just "comfortable". He lied to me often about little things. I knew he was lying but never for a moment thought there was a big lie out there. I knew our M was far from ideal but I kept trying.

BTW: FWH and his lifelong "best friend" have had no contact since dday. He went into a panic, she dragged her BH off on a trip around the country, terrified that I would tell him the sordid truth. She also lost her job. I outed her at her workplace about a year after dday and her boss laughed and said she had recently quit and how pleased all the staff were that she had gone - this wonderful woman who after dday my FWH described as his "best friend" her boss described as an arrogant self-centred bitch who thought only of herself.. FWH also has had no contact with OW2 (8 years PA) and OW3 (1 year PA). These women all told him they were the love of his life. Begged him to leave me for them. (I now know that oW3 had another boyfriend on the side at the same time). He told them he loved them but had to stay with me "for the family". Well I told our children before I confronted him and he still dropped all of them like hot potatoes. Yep. They loved each other

CN love is not all lollipops and rainbows. Life can be tough at times. The real world is about supporting each other as best you can. NOt running away looking for a "rush" and some ego=stroking. Yes after many years of M you lose that first flash of "true love" (which by the way is just raging hormones). In the real world mature people accept their partners warts and all, try to support them as best they can and deal with issues as they arise as best they can.

If you want lollipops and rainbows for the rest of your days, M is not for you. You will need a succession of women. I am sure they will all tell you how truly wonderful you are, be so excited to see you and beg you to stay "just a little longer". They will hang on your every word. Make you feel like a god. Sadly, the hormones will wear off after a year or so. They will begin to bore you and you them, so then you will need to find someone else. Good luck with that!

Marriage is for mature people who understand what real love is. Real love is a betrayed wife who will give her wayward husband a chance to show he's worth bothering with.

I can now look back on 30 years of M and know my FWH began his cheating career about 26 years ago. He has left me totally devastated. My life is destroyed but I am clinging to hope that one day we may actually R. However, back in 1988 when I caught him with his first OW if I had known then what I know now I would have kicked him out and never looked back.

I have read and reread all your posts. If you were mine .... you'd be gone.

Laura

I avoided reading this thread for a while because so often I see this kind of title, and my thoughts are "can't help you, everyone is different, her reactions may seem alien to me but make perfect sense to her". I finally opened it, and this section hit me, so I read more.

I've been reading almost every single post in the Just Found Out forum from BW's. No one reacted how she is reacting. How do you not care? How can someone not have anger at all. Does that mean she was that checked out from our marriage? She isn't giving me anything at all. No don't talk to OW. No, anger or hatred. Its just nothing.

Her reaction is pretty much the same as my reaction the last time. I went through all the usual stuff back when I joined in 2007. I actually got over it all more or less, except the odd thing she would say where I would shake my head at her cluelessness, I got over it much better than she did. Then I went through an uneasy phase where things were just weird and I could not figure out if it was more shit starting, leftover shit she was dealing with, or just some annoying attitudes that she needed to work on.

Then one day, doesn't matter how, I got confirmation, and the whole emotional confrontation lasted a maximum of 3 minutes, and I moved on to the logistical issues. In some part of my mind I was already doing the math on division of assets. We commenced the in house separation thing that day, with the sole caveat that while we were both living there, the home was a neutral zone, no bringing dates over for either of us, and try to be discrete rather than in "in yer face" about anything else going on. I didn't even bother with a "She Did It Again" posting here on SI. The only people I told here were 3 replies to PM's directly asking me, all based on the same observation of my postings best described by ladyv as being "more sardonic than usual", a subtle thing to notice since nobody even blinked when I posted later that we were divorcing due to "poor communication, I said this guy was a douche so she decided to shove him up her... nvm."

Does what I am describing seem familiar to you?

Does it seem hopeless? Well, it wasn't completely hopeless, I had reached the point where I was done fighting for the marriage, because I had already exhausted myself, decided to drop my burden, and didn't care if she had bothered to pick it up. She still could have made a difference had she then decided to fight for the marriage (I am actually pretty good at forgiving), but she was off in her obsessed little world. It doesn't really matter who fights for the marriage, but somebody has to. If your wife is unwilling or unable to do so, then perhaps it is time for you to do the fighting, now that you are done running away to the AP.

My wife is a woman who has CRIED because another woman (Emma actually) texted me. She isn't this silent or brooding or unemotional. I thought she would react in that way because that is how she has in the past to things like this.

Yep, I think she did a whole lot of the feeling insecure and uncertain, and fighting for the marriage when she knew something was wrong but didn't know what. While you were in your A, and before that while you were exhibiting A like behavior before you crossed the line, once she found out, it all made sense to her and she instinctively knew that she could not fix it so why bother. I totally get that idea. You have posted a few details today that make me think it is not quite as bad as what uncertainone predicted, but your BW is probably very close to that point. It may actually be the pregnancy and logistical questions that prompt her to be receptive. I suggest you take this opportunity to do everything you can, before she can figure out the details of an alternate plan.

So, you got her response, but I'll GUARANTEE rage will follow up if she hasn't lost her fight as UO posted.

I feel so much blame in your post. My wh did/does that too. She wasn't showering you with affection, attention. She was withholding, she wasn't talking, she was jealous and accused you of cheating, etc.....I haven't heard about you. CN, what were you doing to her? You are exactly like my WH. See, my WH seemedseemed to think he was Gods gift to earth, an amazing husband and dad, a superb supporter, etc. the truth? He was a shitty, miserable man to be around for YEARS before he cheated. Did I throw constant positivity his way? Fuck no! He screamed at everyone all day, he was rude and in later years embarrassing. Did I have sex with him lots? Hell to the fuck no. Why would I want to have sex with a man that wanted us to watch 2 porns before sex everytime, screamed at me/us all time, never spoke to me, was nicer to strangers than us, was never home, and groped me like an object? I wouldn't! I was never paid attention to. I took care of the kids and house ALONE. When he was home, he completely ignored me or got pissed if I had the audacity to ask for help. He wanted attention? How about giving me some too. He oozed inappropriateness with women all the time and because he was always so damn needy, I knew that wasn't ok and voiced it often. I knew he could never be alone, and I used to tell him that of I died he'd have a new girl by the end of the week! How do you think that made me feel?! I could go on for DAYS, but the point is, my husband justified his As the exact same way you are and told himself he was awesome amd being so great he DESERVED everything you listed. Guess what? I did too. He so desperately wanted all sorts of stuff from me, but he never gave. He did for years get all of that to to the best of my ability (which was never enough for hos empty soul), till my love bank was sucked dry and I was too broken down to try. He was just a selfish ass. I was never a real person, i was just feed.

So, do you give what you so desperately seek CN? I'm gonna venture a big fat NO. You've been having an A, so I'll guarantee a no for thd entire A span and the months leading up. She's seen signs in the past of WW thoughts, so I'll gamble with a NO for a long while, if ever.

[This message edited by mangledmom at 8:32 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]

ungracie...

BS's are not to knock any WS around in this forum, please post within the forum description.

To everyone else...

Cheater may be triggering some of you, we ask that you step back before projecting your own situation on to him.

Thank you.

I'm with the others here, CN. You are pinning so much of this recovery on your BS. This isn't going to be easy at all. She is like an iceberg right now, only the tip of the pain is showing. More is coming, especially if she is pregnant.

I don't think you can handle what is coming.

Yep, I think she did a whole lot of the feeling insecure and uncertain, and fighting for the marriage when she knew something was wrong but didn't know what. While you were in your A, and before that while you were exhibiting A like behavior before you crossed the line, once she found out, it all made sense to her and she instinctively knew that she could not fix it so why bother. I totally get that idea. You have posted a few details today that make me think it is not quite as bad as what uncertainone predicted, but your BW is probably very close to that point. It may actually be the pregnancy and logistical questions that prompt her to be receptive. I suggest you take this opportunity to do everything you can, before she can figure out the details of an alternate plan.

I'm with aesir. Spot on. I knew something was "up" with WS, and I was asking "who was on the phone" and "why was he gone" and "why didn't you call me back"...I was looking for the problem. The affairs. I didn't know that was what was going on, but I suspected.

She may look "all in" to you right now, but trust me, she is making plans in her head to leave you. It is scary for her to think about, working, juggling kids alone, being a single Mom, money, moving, houses, schools, <<<<those fears probably kept me in my marriage too long. WS didn't know it, but I was making my plans even while in R. I visited lawyers, researched my rights, started imagining what it was going to be like to be single, etc.

Do you know why? Because I could tell he was weak. I could tell he wouldn't do the really hard work to fix himself. She is watching you, and I'm guessing she is seeing what we are all seeing. Someone with their head in their ass. We can all see it plain as day, she can too.

Don't kid yourself for a minute that you didn't put your own selfish needs above everyone else's....including all of your children. What do you think your chances of your marriage surviving this are? It is low...really, really, really low. You put your happiness over everyone else's, including your children...and now your wife knows. She knows her happiness and safety isn't important to you. She knows the ultimate happiness of your children aren't important to you. After all, you risked everything, EVERYTHING, for a person you admitted you didn't even like very much. Now your wife knows.

We are trying to help you. It is like the "BS Whisperer". We are telling you what she is probably thinking and feeling. I'm sure it is scary for you. Try to really listen, we are offering you help that would take a long time in therapy to figure out.

[This message edited by cmego at 8:39 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]

I know I have a ways to go as a WH and I think I know what people would tell her. Not good things. So can you understand my hesitation?

Noah, that is all about control. You want to control the situation, the outcome and essentially control your wife. Explore why you have such a need for control and how long that's been with you. Often the spouse who accuses the other spouse of being controlling is actually the one who is controlling and they may do it in more subtle ways. They project their own behavior onto their spouse.

Yes, I can understand your fear -- you screwed up horribly and you will continue to screw up until you start to look at yourself and your own problems. You are going to have to learn to let go of some of that control or it will keep coming back to bite you.

Someone mentioned above about infatuation or limerance vs mature love and they are correct. Read about the differences and see how unrealistic what you are looking for is long-term.

Yep, I think she did a whole lot of the feeling insecure and uncertain, and fighting for the marriage when she knew something was wrong but didn't know what. While you were in your A, and before that while you were exhibiting A like behavior before you crossed the line, once she found out, it all made sense to her and she instinctively knew that she could not fix it so why bother.

That's how it was with me too. I was already very detached. Plus you made her doubt her instincts and now she realizes they were right. She may be assessing if you are worth the risk or the bother.

After dday, I was in shock because I thought my H was a better man than what (I purposely will not write who) he had become. I was hurt and terribly disappointed in him.

Like you Noah, he confessed but he didn't know what to do to fix anything. He figured if we went to MC because he blamed the marriage for his affair (so he wouldn't have to accept what he had done), that everything would be sunshine and lollipops. He wanted it all to blow over quickly and he just wanted a reset and get his old life back, because unlike you Noah, he realized he'd hit rock-bottom, his future was bleak and he didn't miss his AP or his affair.

He tried, he actually did. He wanted to go and do a bunch of fun things and recapture those good feelings without putting much effort into the hard stuff. That was just too hard and he expected me to shoulder a lot of this burden and put in a lot of effort too. Well, that just made me mad. Once the initial shock wore off the anger stage hit quickly. I made it clear he could leave. I was done. I was tired and I'd carried the weight for too long even though there was no AP on the scene, he just simply was not worth the bother.

He is the one who begged and pleaded, not me. When I got angry and I stopped holding his hand and made it clear he had to find his own strength from within, somehow he managed to find it and work on himself. It was long overdue. That is why we are doing well in R. And that is without going to MC because I stopped going. He needed to work on himself first and I needed to work on myself too, the marriage was not the problem.

Noah, your wife will reach her limit. Maybe sooner, maybe later but it will come.