SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, bottom line is we had not filed for D at the time. We were in R, actively working on our marriage, and he cheated in a ONS. An RA is an affair. Not sure why you feel the need to justify his actions unless you are a) him or b) feel the need to have an RA.

No, I don't have to answer your questions. I am not your wife. I know what happened and you weren't there. Him calling me a bar whore is his issue --Not mine. I have been to a bar one time in over a year. It's rude and abusive and I don't have to take it. Not from him or from you who is obviously stalking my posts...

Not sure what state you live in but it's not legal in the state of Texas....

Not sure what state you live in but it's not legal in the state of Texas....

It's fine in my state, especially when you'v been separated for nearly two years. My attorney told me to date when I'm ready to date. (I'm not ready so it's a non-issue to me.)

But more than that, I find it offensive that you compare marital infidelity to dating when you're separated or divorced. There are dozens of women and men here whose cheating spouses have held up their divorces for years. Do you really expect people to put their lives on hold until their spouses finally agree to a divorce? After everything their spouses have done to them?

That's morally reprehensible.

In my state it is also not ok and would negate an adultery grounds charge.

We were working on our marriage. That is straying. It is an affair.

Until that divorce decree is finalized an affair is an affair.

It is absolutely not unless you are in R.

Legally/technically, in some states it is classed as infidelity but then we'd have to say actual RAs whilst in R are not cheating where the parties are not married.

No-one can cheat when there is no R. monster is in a relationship with OWUmpteen but I do not consider it him cheating on me because there is no R.

I have zero issue with people making a choice for themselves to not have sex with anyone until their divorce comes through. It is not a choice I am making nor one I would I ever make. I reject the notion that any sex I have until formal D is an affair. I find it quite ridiculous really.

If you were in R then you're absolutely right. It is a betrayal.

I think the bottom line here is that you are truly hurting. For that I'm sorry.

Now, get to IC and keep going, for you.

I'm also sorry that many of us have made you feel uncomfortable. We do feel your pain. One of the things I LOVE about SI is that the truth always abounds. Whether we like it or not, we are going to get the truth.

Be well lady and take care of you. For you.

I'm sorry you're in pain. Sometimes, infidelity is a deal-breaker. No matter which side of the aisle anyone's on, we ALL know that infidelity is potentially a deal-breaker.

You may have counted on your husband not finding out, or on him being willing to work to save your marriage. But on some level, you accepted the risk that it might be a deal-breaker.

I hope you move forward constructively and build a happy life---one in which you are able to heal from past injuries so that you no longer inflict new hurts onto yourself. You deserve better than what you have given yourself.

Many of us here, including me, wish we had heard this from our cheating spouses. I would of given a lot of things to get her to even try but alas she had no interest in trying. Maybe she didn't love me anymore, maybe she truly believes the OM is her true love, her soul mate. I don't know. I also don't know had we tried to work it out if I could of gotten to a point of forgiveness or if trust could of been rebuilt. But like my pal Sean, we wished we would of heard the remorse and the want to repair. I'm sorry for you that you can't rebuild. You sound sincere and remorseful. But I understand his pain and his wanting to move on. Like others said, get yourself the help you need and fix yourself.

lady p,

I don't post on here much anymore but just wanted to say that I was touched by your post, and could feel your pain.

I totally get where you are, and what you meant by defining your childhood sexual abuse in the here and now.

I did want to say that sometimes on here you have to be careful how you word things because sometimes they are taken out of context and comments of support can make one feel belittled.

I did the revenge affair on my now ex and while I know that it was wrong to do what he was doing, I was so angry and numb that I didn't care how badly I hurt him. That was wrong to think just as making the decision to cheat was.

You made a mistake (as a matter of fact the very same mistake your husband made) and thought that perhaps he would understand and forgive you just as you did him. He did not and now you are hurting terribly. Double standard I say.

I don't think you are broken but should try to take this time to seek out some inner peace and work on some of your personal issues. You were abused; and that is not your fault. Knowing how it can screw things up for you as an adult is being responsible and owning up to the impact it's had on you and the choices you made.

Maybe with enough time apart you can talk to your husband and explain some things to him when he's ready to listen.

I think we all loved too hard and got screwed by it. I certainly did!!!

Take care of yourself and know that some of us did hear what you were saying, and made no judgements on you.

I don't care what anyone else thinks of me you shouldn't either.

LadyP...

There are 2x4's...then there are 2x4's with nails in them....it appears you got a few if each.

I have been reading alot here...and previously under another name...Im glad a mod stepped in...

I clearly read in your first post that you hold yourself responsible...

There is a difference between a "why" and an "excuse"...

My dog ate my homework... is an excuse...

I dont have my homework because I didnt do it...is a why.

And In MY opinion...if I have sexual or emotional relations with someone while IM STILL MARRIED...its CHEATING.

Separated is not equal to Divorced....

With all due respect, I think your logic it very black and white and your either/or logic is quite obtuse. I didn't say that I couldn't help myself... I said I understand WHY I did it from my broken down self. I am admitting to my fuck up and that my moral fabric was a mess because of the CSA. I am in IC for finding myself, my voice and I have taken full responsibility for what I did. I live with it clearly everyday. Your statement about sleeping around (which I don't-- it happened once) is abusive and I do not accept it.

I appreciate the value of what you all are saying. I am as honest as I can be and in the process of digging deep to heal. I hear the dealbreaker statement. I hate it. He cheated on me and I forgave him. I guess our forgiveness is different.

Lady,

Try to see if it makes more sense this way. I know this is a tough one but bear with me. K?

Whenever, I (as in ME!...just Me...Reeling) see someone blame childhoood sexual abuse as a reason for cheating, my hairs stand right up. Because, you see, I was that little girl. My entire childhood was destroyed right about halfway after kindergarten started and never stopped until my parents moved to another town when I was in middle school.

I didn't cheat on my husband.

Now, here is my reason for posting on your thread. Imagine you are the BS. Simply that, nothing else. Just a BS. You begin to grasp at straws to decide if you should fight for the marriage or divorce. It's a constant battle that lasts for months and the answer flip/flops almost every other minute. It's awful.

NOW: Imagine your WS comes to you and tells you that he is so sorry, wants you back, will do anything....and it was because he is a child of sexual abuse!!! HOLY SHIT! ARE YOU FRICKIN' KIDDING ME?!?

You see, here's what they hear:

I had an affair.

It's not your fault.

It's not my fault either.

I can't help myself, I was raped as a child.

BS is shitting a GIGANTIC BRICK NOW thinking, okay, so what's the point? If it's not the WS fault because they will ALWAYS be a child a sexual abuse, then this makes them ALWAYS vulnerable.

You have just set yourself up to never be trustworthy.

Your husband wants to feel safe with you. You took that when you chose to blame it on abuse instead of stupidity.

Just own it!

Or don't, but I can predict your future if you choose that path.

realin'...why are you overlooking this part?

" Yes, I was the one who got myself into a very bad situation. I am the one who didn't have the strength to say no, embody it, and protect my marriage."

And dont we ENCOURAGE WS's to find out their "whys"...

NOWHERE in any of ladyp's posts did I see her BLAME her A on CSA.

I think what you are doing is a bit of transferance here...IE: just because you are a CSA survivor and didnt end up cheating as a symtom of internal brokeness...she therefor shouldnt have either....

Well duh!!!!

No one should cheat...but again...I dont her as placing blame on CSA...she is sharing that CSA is part of her WHY...as in why she was broken and why she had poor boundries and why she made a horrible CHOICE.

But I see her owning the choice.

Lady P

I'm sorry you and your spouse are in pain.

That timeline is yours to deal with, as is you own healing.

And healing is why we're all here.

No matter where we are in our journey, no matter how long ago any of it was, or what it was.

We have to own our healing. Our first and primary relationship is with ourself.

For me all that counseling and therapy, the homework, the self discovery, the sifting through every moment, looking for the cause led back to me.

I saw me - where I was, who I was - and an honest examination of me. As I was raised, that was a Good Examination of Conscience.

My Marriage ended in a total shitstorm of Police, prosecutors, FBI, lights sirens - at least a 9 ring circus.

It ain't been easy. Life dealt me a rotten hand.

I could have folded - I was ready to a few times.

My point? Find the thing in you that gives you the most pain, and get thee to someone to help.

Doctor? Therapist? Clergy? Support Group? I dunno. I tried some of 'em all.

I have a team in my recovery - my therapist, a case manager, my youngest's Therapist, her Case manager, the guidance staff at her school, friends, all of SI, and some wonderful professionals who send me to the person they believe in.

Reach out - Life gives us doors. Knock on each one. The answer is behind one of them

my XH wrote practically the same words here, minus the CSA part. he got the same advice you're getting...sorry dude, it's clearly a dealbreaker for her.

when i filed final D papers, after all the drama and the reality of OC, after all the TT, he blamed me for "not trying to R" and save the family, because he really wanted to try. but even without the TT, i kind of new within a day of Dday that the deal was off for me.

in the end i made him understand this way:

"i could wake up today and try to R with you as easily as i could wake up and try to be gay. i could try to fake it, but there is no way i could ever be myself. it's just not real, and it's soul-crushing. the idea of trying to R feels like dying."

i knew that i would treat him badly, myself badly and that my tiny dd would watch it all...for years. and my XH didn't really get his shit together until after D. he's doing better now...but i was right...my M was never going to work for me again. i saved us both a lot more pain.

i'm sorry for your pain, LP. i don't know that you are taking full accountability with your BS or how honest you are being with anyone...but i do understand how those childhood issues sneak up and bite you...only to be figured out later.

when i was young and i cheated, i figured out "why" i cheated on a bf. it was FOO all the way...a subconscious way of protecting myself from vulnerability in relationships where i wasn't emotionally safe. that meant that cheating was an expression of my weakness, my childish lack of good coping skills, because of how i grew up...and i knew that my weakness was one of the reasons i picked that very controlling relationship that i cheated my way out of. it's very hard to word any of that without sounding like i'm blaming my xBBF for my cheating because he was kind of abusive and made me feel emotionally unsafe, because i didn't stand up for myself...blah, blah, blah... but i'm not blaming him. i can't. that doesn't help me...nor does it relieve guilt for the genuine hurt i put on him. it still boiled down to my weaknesses, my choices, my sins. he knows that...we made our peace years later.

"why's" are not "excuses," i agree. and while not every severely physically and/or sexually abused child becomes a criminal, an abuser, a murderer, etc...the experience of disturbing, violent and/or abusive childhoods is a risk factor for violent or destructive grown-up behavior. that's just a fact. our brains work differently, they break differently, they recover differently. when they break as children, they can be resilient or shrink or atrophy or twist around into something ugly. it usually takes a huge wakeup call to show us which behaviors are based on our past, not on who "we are and always will be." i think LP has her wake up call.

unfortunately girl...i think that means waking up alone for a while. but it's gonna be ok, you'll become better and better company for yourself...and soon you might enjoy it as you discover stronger parts of you.

(((LP)))

(((everyone)))

[This message edited by stretch13 at 1:20 PM, March 14th (Thursday)]

Reelinbuthealin,

LadyP has stated she is not blaming the SA, but digging deep to try to figure it all out. Not everybody handles traumatic experiences in the same manner. Please post for support, or if you feel like the topic is too sensitive for you to post supportively, please step away from the thread.

Thank you.

Stretch honey ^^ THAT was very beautifully articulated.

Reelinbuthealin,

LadyP has stated she is not blaming the SA, but digging deep to try to figure it all out. Not everybody handles traumatic experiences in the same manner. Please post for support, or if you feel like the topic is too sensitive for you to post supportively, please step away from the thread.

Thank you.

Yes, I see exactly what you saying. Sorry if I didn't articulate my last post to make it understandable. I was thinking about her thread during the day and was just wondering IF perhaps she had told HIM exactly what she wrote here if he might see her heart instead of the words she spoke.

Have you, Lady? Because I see someone who is sorry and willing to do the heavy lifting but unless he knows that you are owning this and trying to fix things, he may have his ears closed. THAT is what I failed miserably at attempting to say.

And then, of course, she still is dealing with the fact that he is cheating on her too now.

Lady, is it possible for you to get him to sit down with you alone. Maybe even show him some of things you've written here. Let him see where your heart is?

I find that when I have to speak, I usually mess all the words up and they never come out exactly how I wish they would. (apparently my writing skills aren't too good either...if you read my last post ) But if I can put my thoughts into words, it more accurately shows what I want to say. I have always written my story out for a new therapist, so that no misinformation exists beforehand. It works for me.

You've made it clear here how you feel about him, about your marriage and how you wish you could change the things that have happened, for us on SI. Perhaps if he could see this, let it soak into his brain and marinate for a little while, he could understand the pain you are in and work on saving his marriage.

I'm sorry for the early (1st) 2x4, that one came hard. The 2nd post was actually trying to say what I'm trying to say again. Maybe he just saw that CS abuse as an excuse and ran with it. If he sees that you aren't using it as an excuse, maybe he can clean up his act and get back to acting like the husband he should be again.

Again, I'm very sorry that I hurt you. You have been through tough times, you can do this.

[This message edited by reelingbuthealin at 11:56 AM, March 14th (Thursday)]

I am kind of amazed at how much controversy this post stirred up. It is one of my first posts and I see how this SI thing works and just how many people are operating from a place of deep hurt. I do not blame anyone for that-- in fact I can completely understand pain and have tremendous compassion for what we all are going through. I can read some of the attacks here and see that so much of the anger has so little to do with me and so much to do with what each of us are experiencing, personally. I would challenge many of us, even when we think we are "right," to look deeper into why it is so important for us to be "right" even if it means hurting others. I am certainly learning that.

I appreciate the support from both those who have understood and the misunderstood what I have posted. I am in a lot of pain so it is nice to hear from people who reassure me that I am genuinely remorseful. I wish I was the WW of those who wish they could hear the remorse. It's also very helpful to read that although I might do everything right, this is just a deal breaker for some. Had the shoe been on the other foot, it may have been for me (?).

Meanwhile, I even gain wisdom from the attacks. Although some of you may want to work on your approach and assumptions, I have gained insight from your perspectives. I see now just how my husband may have heard my words. His reactions were so similar to several of you that it makes sense to me why now. I had no idea how he just couldn't hear me and that he thought I was non-remorseful at times. I just couldn't understand it before. Now, after reading so many of your posts, I see why.

I am in IC. Working my ass off. CSA is a bitch and those of you who understand FOO, you really might consider just how damaging CSA can be. I have my "wake up call". I thought I was an aware person before, but I wasn't. Now, I am learning to love myself-- because I didn't. I am taking care of my daughter and trying to be a better mother and friend. You need a key, password, and membership to break my boundaries now!!

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback.

It is hard enough for WS to come into this board when they are truly looking for help, understandably, most of us here did not want to be here and did not want the divorce. But I know for myself I would have loved if even for a little my ex at least attempted to examine the destruction he caused. And I have heard "I'm sorry's" over and over. But nothing in his actions have indicated that he is sorry for anything but getting caught. He lives in a fantasy that "everything worked out as it should be" because I assume to face reality is too much for him to handle. That being said, you cannot make him decide to stay married. But you can work on yourself. My greatest moment of clarity was when I realized that the man I loved and thought I was going to spend my life with would not lift one finger to help me when I needed it most. That I had to do it myself. And right now that is who you need to focus on. You cannot unring a bell but you can make damn sure you don't ring it again with anyone else. and one way to start is to let go. Let go of what you want him to do, of what your expectations of your marriage are, of what you can do to save it. The only thing you can do is work on yourself. And even if you were not a WS that would be my advice. Sometimes mistakes cannot be undone or fixed or even forgiven. But if you learn and grow then if nothing else, that is worthwhile.

ladyp

i can see now that i was wrong. when i first read your post I thought that you were playing the victim. that you genuinely thought that you had no part to play in this. i could have given you, "gosh i'm sorry hugs to you."

but i don't think that kind of thing helps much. why come to a site where no one knows you just for sympathy? i felt the only way i could help was to provide you what I was seeing, so that maybe you could see it yourself. All we can do really, is help ourselves.

i had misunderstood your timeline which is why i said what i did with regard to the RA. other's have adequately expressed what i was talking about.

i feel bad for your pain. i sometimes think a WS has greater pain upon recognition of their actions, because it is tainted with guilt.

but i can see I misread your first post and initial responses. i'm sorry if i added to your pain. not my intention. there is enough pain to go around without me piling on. I'm sorry.

i hope the best for you and your family.