SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Referring to Fallen's comment

We fought for it, cried for it and bled for it.

What does fighting for it look like?

Saying things like I dont want a D or I love u/care for you clearly dont work for CL. whatver changes I am making he says are not good enough. When I ask him he says he cant handhold me for life and I need to figure out on my own what I want.

How do I show I am fighting for him??

I know nice people on here has told me umpteenth times that I need to foucs on me and not on him. But i really do love and care for him. How do I show him that?

When I see the quoted statement I think of all the nights we were up talking and crying and digging deep. Going through all the very hard stuff, the details of my As, the thought processes leading up to it.

We sat in MC and cried and argued and talked and peeled away the layers of pain.

When I ask him he says he cant handhold me for life and I need to figure out on my own what I want.

Does this mean you are not sure if you want to R? (just trying to be clear, no judgment here)

Is your topic title related to fighting for your M? Are you clear on the fact that you want R or are your actions showing him differently (acting indifferently, nonchalant)?

Are you in IC? MC?

In order for R to work, both people have to be fully committed to it.

Are either of you?

Saying things like I dont want a D or I love u/care for you clearly dont work for CL. whatver changes I am making he says are not good enough. When I ask him he says he cant handhold me for life and I need to figure out on my own what I want.

You see it here all the time. This phrase:

Actions. Not words.

I am a believer that words DO matter. They have their place in R, of course! However, without action, verbal reassurances don't make much of a dent in a BS' pain.

What actions are you taking to "fight"?? Because when I see the line you quoted - I see action. Even if the action is quiet - like reflecting and then journaling and then sharing your journal with your BS or something like that. Still action. Not just pleadings, "I don't want to D!"

When my WS said that to me after D-Day 2, I was thinking, "Then you sure as hell better show me." And I agree with your BS - I don't want to have to tell him every step of the way what those actions are. Part of owning your shit is OWNING your shit - not letting your spouse co-own it by making suggestions on each step forward.

So what is my WS doing now (all of this is focusing on him, just as you should on you)?

--IC

--Got sober, goes to AA every week, has a sponsor, volunteers with his AA group

--Reads about sobriety and infidelity

--Cut off a friend that was toxic to him and our marriage

--Re-engaged with a hobby that he left by the wayside - a hobby that is a healthy emotional and physical outlet for him.

To me, those are all actions. His words and our talks supplement those actions.

Good luck.

Maybe consider that working on you will involve working with CL. You do need to focus on you, but your H needs to have some time focused on him too. Your healing can't happen in a vacuum, so you have to learn to juggle things, multi-task.

Fighting for it meant working to figure it out, working to change the ambivalence to intentional acts, getting past that fear of communicating something that I would have stuffed way down before the A. All of those things make a difference, and my BW sees it.

It took me a very long time to get there. Your join date it Nov '12. When I was where you are now, my BW discovered false-R. Reset the clock, and that was a couple years after limbo. I truly hope you and CL won't have to go through anything like what I did to my BW, but you do have to give it time and work on it consistently for those positive changes to become realized.

You keep doing it for a long time until he feels safe. He's afraid that once he feels safe and vulnerable you'll do it again - destroying his heart and making him look like a fool for trying.

Some BHs in this situation secretly wish the WW does something again so they can leave. After all, they "knew" it'd happen again.

It took a long time for me to get over this. I'm vulnerable again. I have no control on what she does but I know I won't feel like a fool. I'm giving my best, it'll be her loss. And I know I'll be fine by myself. I'm in this relationship because I want it and not because I need it.

In the end, it takes time while doing the right things.

How do I show I am fighting for him??

By doing this...

When I ask him he says he cant handhold me for life and I need to figure out on my own what I want.

You figure out on your own how to fix you.

That's not his job. How could you even expect that in the aftermath?

Fallen's comment was "we" describing how the two of them tackled building a new marriage. AN and her husband as well.

You two are fresh out of the gate and CL is still in shock. Maybe (very understandably) too soon in this to "fight" for anything more than his sanity at this point.

You need to fight for your growth and continue to reach out to him. If you want to build this with CL you can find this drive.

I've been on this site for 3 years. AN and Fallen were vets when I joined but I never saw them waver or pause in their committment to be safe, whole, healthy people and partners.

Can you find and sustain that committment?

I will try to explain my struggle/concern. Its difficult to put in words but I will try anyway.

I am/was unhealthily attached with CL. I had to make this work “at any cost”. I was clinging on him and telling him there is NO WAY I could let him go.

In one of my initial posts I had written

For the first time I don’t want him in my life bcz I need him but bcz he really wants to be with me.

FRM pointed out that CL always wanted to be with me. This stirred my world. I always looked at him like he was in my life bcz I was holding on him so tightly. If I let him go, he wont stay. (Well almost all other relationships I hold in my life are like this.)

I started looking at this as CL’s choice. And then I realized if I love him I would respect either of choices. But even thinking of him leaving used to put me in panic mode. So I started visiting D/S and taking mental notes what I don’t want to do if that really happens. I don’t want to hurt him any further and I started preparing for that.

I worked on listening to him and now it has reached to the point that at least till the moment he is talking I try really hard not to bring up my fears and really LISTEN to him. Sometimes I end up feeling like “u know what, I understand how difficult it is for you and all I want is that you should be fine .. even if that means we not being together.”

Don’t get me wrong.. I still screw up a lot and it still scares me to death but slowly I have started seeing these things. I don’t want to emotionally suck on his energy anymore.

But all this makes me feel like I am working in opposite direction. Kwim? I am not getting a sense of “fight” to make him stay. (the way I did before) I am just working towards respecting his choice and not hurt him any further. And still that makes me feel like I am not fighting for him. I am not sure I am able to explain properly. I end up feeling very insecure because my focus is not to make him stay “at any cost”.

That’s the reason I look for assurance from him that he knows that I DO care and love him. Kwim??

Apart from IC and reading books and NCs, I am trying to learn healthy behaviours .. but i am not sure if i am working in right direction and that scares me

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 7:51 AM, April 10th (Wednesday)]

u know what, I understand how difficult it is for you and all I want is that you should be fine .. even if that means we not being together

That's healthy. What you described before wasn't fighting for anything but needing him there for your needs and your panic.

Now, let me ask you something. What if CL came to you and said, "something miraculous happened and I'm fine. I am not angry and really just want to be with you". Would you still do your work? Would you still examine your processes? Would you still work at listening and being open and transparent with him or would you go "back" to how your were before?

Do you feel your progress has made that a far distant condition or do you feel those defaults are still right there ready to be toggled?

UO -

Would you still do your work?

Nope.I would be just really happy that he is staying. I will work on respecting him at the most.

Do you feel your progress has made that a far distant condition or do you feel those defaults are still right there ready to be toggled?

Nope. But thats what I cant figure out. How do I know if changes are permanent? How can make sure they are permanent?

Nope.I would be just really happy that he is staying. I will work on respecting him at the most

So you're saying that you wouldn't continue your work and work on respecting him? That's a contradictory statement.

Look, EF, you don't have to make any changes at all. This is up to you. I think, but could be wrong, that this is what CL was seeing too.

I see a different tone in your posts, and maybe that's my perception. CL is still there. Your d day is getting further in the past and you're acclimating to the new environment with CL now aware. You're settling down and kind of waiting and seeing with no immediate crises to trigger the panic of "oh my god I have to hang on to him".

What I don't see from you is the continual pain from your choices as they pertain to your destruction and loss of integrity. It's kind of an uncomfortable coasting of sorts until you get a little more confidence the status quo won't be shifting soon.

Big mistake. For you. For CL. For your future. When you get complacent you'll drop the stage props and be right back where you were, and maybe still are.

Who knows other than you, but you seem to miss very basic concepts others post about their journey and struggles. I know you're a smart girl so I am concluding, perhaps incorrectly, that you are either not to that level of self awareness yet or honestly lack the depth.

Either way, not sure what to say other than what I have. Hope you choose to continue your work.

I dont know.. I feel like I shouldnt be a better person.. not when I am using CL's devastation as a stepping stone.

I did try changing some things very consciously just for myself.. (like procrastination).. after few days those changes made me feel a bit better about myself .. I was so consumed with shame and guilt for feeling good.. I mean none those changes required such a huge turmoil... SO every little changes (done for myself .. ) drag me down to guilt and I give up..I come back to my usual self

Even a hint of smile when I really enjoy something pushes me to guilt and shame Its like I am terrified of being better or feeling good ..

Then I think if I am making changes for CL, I wont feel so guilty .. well I dont feel guilty but I end up annoying CL as he doesnt want me do changes for HIM

I think I dont deserve to be better as CL had to pay price for that .. Hence I keep focusing on him thinking let him recover a bit and then maybe I wont feel so guilty Its another form of self - punishment I guess..

[This message edited by EmotionalFool at 6:28 AM, April 11th (Thursday)]

EF: If I may...

Your husband can only recover if YOU are with him, in the marriage and fighting for a healthy relationship. For him to recover without you isn't really a recovery, it's an escape to a new, different life. So give him to opportunity to recover WITH you.

This means that constantly focusing on him and his recovery may be doing you a disservice. Many here will talk to you about healing yourself. And that is true. But it's important that you remember that you're also healing your relationship - and it is the relationship that also needs to be addressed.

This means making a conscious decision to be a better person for yourself AND for him. When you stop procrastinating (per your example) it's not just because it makes you a better person but because you do more around the house, have more time to spend with your husband, etc. The benefit of you improving yourself is a benefit for both of you.

I also wanted to address something that I've seen in your posts for a while. You guys are now six months our or so. There comes a time where the BS really needs to make a decision about whether they're in on the reconciliation or not. Clearly, the A was not a dealbreaker or he (or you) would have been out the door by now. However, not walking out the door is NOT the same as reconciling.

He needs to make a decision about what he wants. Not just that he's staying but is he open to the possibility of true reconciliation and an ability to look past the mess and see a brighter future. It doesn't mean that he has to forgive and forget tomorrow - but he has to see if there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

16 months out I still see obstacles in my path. There is a ton of hurt that never leaves me. But I have made a decision that I want my wife and that, despite the hurt, I will work through this. She now has the opportunity to make my choice and a good one - and, thankfully, she has.

Is your husband giving you this opportunity? Maybe he needs to tell you, flat out, that he's not divorcing you and that he can see a brighter day. Maybe he needs a good kick in the pants - just because he's a BS does not make him immune to being a fence-sitter.

Work on what you BOTH need and move the relationship forward. It's too easy to stagnate and life is just WAY too short.

One last thing that just crossed my mind...

I can recall many times where my WW, despite the nuttiness of dealing with kids, very busy work days and the ever-present housecleaning, would stop and pull me aside to say, "I can't believe what an asshole I was. I just want you to know how happy I am that we're here, together, and how much I appreciate THIS (pointing to our home, our girls, our life).

This showed me a lot about her. That she owned her shit. That she was truly, deep down sorry for what she had done and that she was reaching down deep to be a better person. She was working on HERSELF.

But, equally important, she understands that if she becomes a better person but I walk out the door - she has still lost. WE have lost. It showed me that she appreciates our marriage.

She is fighting for US!

There have been many times where I've been ready to walk away. But how can I walk away from a woman who I love and who, so clearly, is rebuilding herself AND 100% into our marriage? How can I NOT give THAT a chance?

For him to recover without you isn't really a recovery

Completely disagree with this. People can be, and are in fact, sold separately and do just fine. Being with someone dysfunctional or dependent on another is not recovery but pathological.

Your husband can only recover if YOU are with him, in the marriage and fighting for a healthy relationship. For him to recover without you isn't really a recovery

Wrong.

Actually he can only truly recover if he decides to take his healing into his own hands separate of her. What you are suggesting is co dependency at its finest.

EF,

You should want to be a better person because you look in the mirror and can't believe the person staring back at you would do the things she has. If you aren't at that stage, well then you haven't realized the enormity of your actions and nothing we say here will get you to that place.

Changing yourself is a gift to you and him if he decides to stay. And he can take as long as he needs to make that decision. Your job is fix you, somehow you don't seem to get that. Not sure why.

EF,

Have you read any books on co-dependency?

It sounds, to me at least, that you are so tied to how CL is doing and feeling, that you can't seem to feel for yourself, or realize that you have to do your work for yourself, not for anyone else. Does that make sense?

I think at 6 months out, I was still clinging onto the thought process that if I only did x,y, or z, my BS would feel so much better and things would be ok. I knew that was untrue, but the unhealthy part of my brain that thought I could control things was working overtime still.

Let go of the idea that anything you do can help CL feel better or recover. You can do things that make him feel safe with you, authentic communication, transparency, honesty...

There is a saying that you have to clean your side of the street, CL has to clean his side of the street. Each of you will have a different timeline for this, so being supportive and safe for him while he does it is all you can do, in my opinion.

[This message edited by badchoice at 10:50 AM, April 11th (Thursday)]

I dont know.. I feel like I shouldnt be a better person.. not when I am using CL's devastation as a stepping stone.

And this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You view self improvement as using another as a stepping stone. You view people as things that you use even when considering self help.

That thought process seems so entwined. CL is seperate from you in every way. He is his own individual entity. He's not dependent on you. He's not here on earth for you. He won't stop existing without you.

There is just you. Whether you work on yourself to become a better person or not will affect mainly you. Yes, we are a "village" but others can choose to walk away from the village "idiot" (not saying you are an idiot). He, on the other hand, cannot.

Do you like yourself? Do you feel ok with your choices and would you have been ok with those if the outcome had been different? If CL had never found out would life had progressed smoothly and without any reflection or guilt?

If so then not sure how anyone here can honestly help you. You would be a completely "situational" person. Your feeling good or bad would be solely linked to outcome and never processes. I can't think of a more dangerous person to be or to be with.

You should want to be a better person because you look in the mirror and can't believe the person staring back at you would do the things she has.

I do feel that way but then I fear no matter what I do I cant ever “Fix” the shit that has happened and there is no way on this fucking earth I will like this person ever again for what she did.

I guess I am abandoning myself again.

((EmotionalFool))

That I s what is holding you up...

You cannot fix anything. You have to give that up. What you did, what we all did, cannot be in-done.

Accepting that and forgiving is part of the process.

Also, you don't have to " like this person ever again for what she did"

You recognize all the unhealthy things that let you do what you did, and become a healthy version of yourself. Someone you can and will like and love. Someone you can be proud of.

Ask yourself;

who do I want to be? what do I want my life to look like, who am I deep inside?

I have followed your posts, you are right there at the edge, you have to trust yourself to take that next step.