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and then Saturday, Happy Family will move her to the apartment.

I've been following your story but not posted yet, mainly because my situation was different than yours...

I have to post now. Please do not make your children witness their mother move out. This seems so so so wrong. Have the talk and then get them away from her. Do something to take their minds off of the situation, and let her move out by herself. They do not need to see mom leave.

From what you have said the OM is not the issue and the affair is not the issue. This of course makes sense, what WW would sacrifice a loving family for an AP who is probably weary of all this drama anyway. Again from what you infer in your posts, she currently doesn't even see him very often, which doesn't support a strong emotional bond.

What are we left with: there is something about your attitude, behavior, POV, or personality that offends her to the point where she will not repair the marriage unless you modify your stance. You mention she is angry. Why don't you explain why she is hostile and cold?

Abbondad, if its not the affair, how about telling the involved members of SI what the hell it really is that is causing this crisis. I think you know because she has been repeatedly telling you, and I don't buy the mentally ill slant if she is holding down a high paying job with little trouble.

All these posts from concerned SI members maybe wasted words if you are not telling all of the story. There is some serious issue over which you will not compromise and neither will she, and it is not this seemingly meaningless affair. Why don't you enlighten us?

OK BIG 2X4 Heading your way AD.

I am actually horribly disappointed with you, and wishy washy nonesense. I knew there was NO WAY IN HE!! you were going to follow through on Mothers day. I am willing to be you spent the day kissing her A** to make her day special.

Here's the deal. You need to tell the kids what's up, not Friday, Not when she says it's ok, but NOW!!! This horrible cycle of behavior that you and her continue to engage is hurting your children way more than making a clean cut.

You need to make the appointment with the Mediator, and tell her when it is, and if she fails to show that you will proceed with a REAL D and have her served immediately. You have got to put on your Big Boy pants, and be the strong one here. You are just hurting yourself and your kids. She could care less, the reason she has trouble controlling them is because she doesn't want to parent. So oblige her. Go to your apartment, don't worry I have the kids covered. This will cause them less trauma in the long run.

She continues to show you who she is, why are you so unaccepting of it?

She quit IC, because she had a therapist that probably told her something she didn't want to hear.

She cancelled the mediation appt, without your consent.

She keeps telling you she isn't ready. BULLSHIT. Do NOT allow her to manipulate you and your kids one more minute.

Sending your strength, cause brother, you need to find some and do what is right.

OKnow,

First, it IS about the OM, despite what she says. She has been in a deep emotional affair with him for two years. Every time she has "ended it " with him she has nearly had a nervous breakdown. She has been able to split her needs between him and her family. This has worked out nicely for her--except when she tries to end it with him or now, when she sees I am ending it with her.

So there is the classic cake eating here.

But absolutely there is a more backstory. Not sure how long you have been following my threads. At at least at one point I offered in detail how all this began: to spice up our sex life, WE agreed that she could have a few anonymous erotic encounters. The rules were nobody she knew or would see again, lest an emotional bond forms. Well, she did fool around with someone she knew and the bond formed.

When I discovered this (a few months after), I told her to stop. Begged her. Told her it was hurting me and would hurt our family. She continued.

She is angry with me for "letting" her do this. We have been through this for hundreds of hours, together and in MC. She associates what happened with her incestuous child abuse and father-abandonment. She associates me now with the two men (father and grandfather) who "betrayed" her, one by abandoning her and the other by molesting her.

I have felt and expressed intense remorse for my,part in this for two years. I had no idea at the time that her FOO issues and trauma would awaken through this mutually agreed-upon action.

She now blames me for literally everything. I am every man who,has abandoned her or betrayed her. Yes, I have my issues, which I am determined to work through in therapy. They seem to involve my own abandonment issues, attachment disorder, addiction to rejection... Who knows what else. But again, there comes a point where all the psychological analysis must end and adult responsibility for one's actions must begin.

I have become a better person, a better father. Yes it took this to shock me into looking within and forging these deep changes. She herself has admitted she's stunned at my changes. But it's been two years. She has not changed and continues to do the one thing that she knows is destroying me.

I still cannot absolve her of responsibility in the pain she has,caused me and our children--even as she continues to absolve herself and always has.

Does this help clarify, OKnow? (Not being sarcastic; I honestly want to explain)

Why don't you explain why she is hostile and cold?

OKnow, she is not hostile and cold all the time. Just when she does not get her way--like now, when I am finally closing the bakery. Her other personality is extremely loving, all over me, telling me how much she loves me...and not to leave her...even as she is planning her next visit to Him.

As far as being mentally ill and holding down a high paying job, well, I don't know,what to say. Many troubled people are extremely successful and otherwise highly functional. Perhaps the phrase "mentally ill" is too loaded, sounding too ominous?

Again, I willingly share my responsibility in terms of,what,led to the affair. It is the regret of my life. But I have sobbed with remorse--while she remained aloof, walking past our children to go be with him.

Oh and BTW: even if we had not delved into the whole semi-open marriage thing, I wonder if it would not have happened at,some point regardless (her having an affair).

[This message edited by Abbondad at 8:59 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

Thank you Abbondad. You have made things much clearer.

You WW sounds like a selfish child woman who is intent on meeting her needs irrespective of the pain and suffering of her family.

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Otherwise I would talk to your wife and say go NC, it has to be over right now even as we speak, or depending on your decision we will irrevocably divorce. If she refuses to give up OM then the divorce will take place even if she changes her mind later; there is no going back from her decision. It is final

This approach moves things forward; the divorce will definitely take place if she continues the open marriage, and this wishy washy backtracking will end. Depending on what she said, the marriage will end as the words 'no to NC' come out of her mouth. Takes a lot of strength to see it through but it cuts out her trying to wheedle her way into your good graces and put off divorce over and over again.

Worth considering. You have to move forward with your life.

OK now, first you were blameshifting onto Abbondad and now you're giving terrible advice, both based on not bothering to read his story or the thread. He's already done all that.

Abbondad, I just want to wish you the very best this weekend. It does sound like you are determined to see this tough, but inevitable and right, decision through. My only thought is that involving the kids in the whole 'Mummy moving to the apartment' bit is unnecessary and probably too stressful. If I were you, I'd tell them what was going to happen and take them out somewhere for the day while she moves out. Then very soon after, she can have them over - hopefully when she's personalised the apartment with some of their stuff - or some new stuff. The way I handled this very tough situation was to absolutely bond rock-solid with my kids as a team of three... and that's how it's stayed. They have now got to the point where they're fine with their Dad (but not OW, who's absolutely persona non grata to them and WH respects that, he has no choice). But we've actually benefited from getting through that time. Yes, the kids suffered from the horror of their dad's actions, but they never, ever felt that they weren't part of a family. They just closed over the hole he left and closed ranks with me. The one thing you can't, probably, achieve when the leaving partner is being unfaithful, is to 'co-parent' and be a family all together at any point. Once she has gone for good and the D is on track, you'll be able to start really healing from all of this.

I have become a better person, a better father.

This is defined by actions, not words.

Right now YOU are allowing your children to live with a toxic woman. YOU are allowing your children to live in an environment where they are getting constantly changing and mixed signals. YOU are doing nothing whilst they are being traumatised by witnessing their family disintegrating. YOU are standing by whilst someone emotionally abuses your children. These are NOT the actions of a good father.

I suspect you CAN be a good father, because you talk with passion about your kids. But I don't believe you are acting like one at the moment.

Protect your children. Tell them the truth the moment she is out of the house for the weekend. When she comes back have her things packed and ready for her to walk in, pick them up with no discussions and leave. Get your children into a stable environment as quickly as possible where they are not exposed to toxic behaviour on her part and co-dependant inaction on your part. Those are the actions of a good father.

A poor father lies in inaction whilst his children are emotionally or physically harmed. A poor father is trapped by fear into inactivity. A good father says FUCK THIS and gets off his ass and sorts it out.

When your children look back at how you raised them, what type of father do you want them to remember. Which do you want to be?

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 10:23 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

AD...I agree with tushnurse and LonelyHusband at this point.

Your kids *still* don't know the truth. Your DS came to you and asked for the truth..and you lied to him.

YOU are betraying your kids,AD.

And you know exactly what betrayal does to a person.

Tell the kids. Today. Without her. You say you know she won't become hysterical or dramatic because she wants the best for the kids...that is such bullshit. Her concern has not,for one minute,been about her children.

TELL YOUR CHILDREN.

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Of course I have considered this, many times. And almost everyone on this site strongly advises against it.

It would be ineffective and could make things worse. She is probably protective of him and she would resent me more, making it difficult to coparent, thus hurting the children more.

It would boost his ego, as it would put me in a subservient position: "Oh please don't do this!"

It's quite clear that he is aware that he is destroying a family. This has been his intent from the beginning. He WANTS her to divorce me.

and then Saturday, Happy Family will move her to the apartment

This is complete mind-fuckery to those poor children.

I am really questioning your motives at this point. I think you are willing to sacrifice your children's emotional health in order to control your wife into doing what you think you want and need.

IMO your wife is a broken, broken woman-child. It would be so much healthier for her (and the family unit) to let her go. Let her find a path of healing.

Your request for her erotic encounters so you could hear the stories has ended so badly. You used your wife and asked her to be used for your gratification.

With her abusive background it was too much. She probably associates men abusing/using her as love.You claim you didn't know it would hurt her, but in hind-sight, it was a horrible choice with devastating consequences.

She needs help and I think you might be broken enough that you cannot help her.

Let her go, tell the children and continue with IC for you and the kids. They should not be carrying these wounds into adulthood because of two broken parents.

I continue to pray you all find healing here.

Oh god, "Happy Family" is helping her move?

What the hell are you thinking? Why on earth would you put your kds through that. Can you really not see how traumatizing that would be for the kids?

I feel like screaming at you not to do this! But you have consistently shown, by your actions as you've described, that protecting those kids is far, far down on your list of priorities.

I can't believe you think this is right, and would do this to them. If she needs help moving anything, she can hire some help. You shouldn't be involved AT ALL in her moving out....much less your poor kids.

And I fully expect that a week from today, not one thing will have changed...and that the kids will still be in misery.

YOU are betraying your kids,AD.

And you know exactly what betrayal does to a person.

Tell the kids. Today. Without her. You say you know she won't become hysterical or dramatic because she wants the best for the kids...that is such bullshit. Her concern has not,for one minute,been about her children.

TELL YOUR CHILDREN.

^^^This. One thousand times this.^^^

For God's sake man, please listen. This is your "golden opportunity".

Do the right thing for your kids.

[This message edited by ExposedNiblet at 10:43 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

Oh Hell. I misread the earlier post... I thought "Happy Family" was referring to her family..mom,brothers,etc. But..no. You are talking about you..the kids..and her. OMG! WTH would you do that to your kids??? That's awful,AD. Just awful.

Let's see. Tuesday. The kids are in school,right? Pack her fucking shit and take it to her apartment TODAY. Then sit the kids down TODAY and tell them the truth.

DO NOT put your kids through the emotional torture of having them help move Mommy to her new apartment.

I think you get it brother, but it scares the hell out of you. It's well past time for her to go. She needs to be done driving the crazy train. Your kids are going to need one hell of a stable environment and counseling for what they have already endured. Don't add to their issues by making them feel responsible for their mother moving out. Hell, they are already going to feel it was their actions that drove mom away. That is what every child feels in the case of a divorce. "If only I hadn't been naughty", If only I had listened better" are very common reactions. Please, PLEASE do not include them in this move.

Talk to them today, arrange a safe place for them to be when she arrives home. The two of you can move her if it comes to that.

I'm getting a weird feeling here brother. Where is your concern for the kids? I know it's normal to be all over the place, but overriding all should be the childrens best interest. Make that a priority now. You and she are adults, they are defenseless kids. Who's standing up for them?

Strength and prayers

Ive said it before, and 545 just said it again...getting a weird feeling about all this.

Your focus seems to be solely on your WW. Planning EVERYTHING around her. Trying to "play nice". I still believe this is all about you being addicted to this drama....addicted to the point that what is best for the kids ISNT EVEN ON YOUR RADAR.

Sorry to sound harsh. But we've ALL been there. And you ignore the advice you want about your WW. But please, for god's sake...stand up for those kids. Stop putting WW first, you second, and them dead last.

I think it's a great idea to get as much of her stuff packed while she's out of town (WITHOUT involving the kids!). And to tell the kids ON YOUR OWN while she's out of town. Because it's the right thing to do for your kids. Give them a few days to process it before Mommy comes home. And then, take them out for the day so she can move. And if SHE won't move....you do it.

[This message edited by SadMad2012 at 11:32 AM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

Probableicecream.

With any problem there are many options and quite a few potential solutions. Makes sense to explore every avenue of thought in an effort to help Abbondad.

One thing we are all in a agreement with is that Abbondad shouldn't backslide and move away from what looks like an unavoidable necessity - divorce.

If her emotional relationship with OM is so strong that she has a nervous breakdown if she tries to give him up, then she gone. Time to bury the marriage and move on.

Have you tried bullying the OM try to get HIM to end the affair and quit destroying your life. Maybe through his family, job or some other vulnerability he may have.

Of course I have considered this, many times. And almost everyone on this site strongly advises against it.

Abbondad, that is the basis of the first attack on the infidelity; inform the spouse, employer, and anyone else who can help pressure the OM to throw WW under the bus.

Almost everyone on SI strongly endorses this approach. If you can get the other guy to back off and leave your wife alone that can save a lot of grief.

Abbondad, your wife does not have a nervous breakdown - she has tantrums every time she doesnt get her way. Abusive people like her get very good at acting like they are losing it.

You are also facilitating and encouraging this behaviour and the two of you are teaching your children how to conduct themselves in a relationship. You might think both of you are somehow protecting the kids, but keep going on like this and your kids will have a lot of trouble with relationships in the future.

You have a lot of wise, experienced people here saying the same thing - the kids are hurting and you need to protect them.

For goodness sakes, please listen.