SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am very photogenic aren't I!

I'd comment on this but we are both married and that might be crossing some boundary

Probably for the best Tred, at least in this forum. We can talk about my good looks in the Betrayed Men thread.

It's all fair game in the Menz Thread.

hey WB,

I have to forgive you every day.

at 4+ years out...this part stuck out to me. This is one of those things that seems to go unspoken.

I really don't think anyone outside of our situations could understand this aspect of the process.

It will get easier, though. And then the struggle will become more about yourself and less about your marriage.

But hey, "they" say engines run better under a little stress right?

Tred glad you sent it. They need to know how we are feeling. Did you guys set guidelines or rules post DDay about trips out of town? If not maybe this would be a good idea. Personally I would want a no alcohol or limit of 1-2 drinks while away.

While my H does not go away for work he does work 3rds and I feel for you. I have a hard time sleeping without him here. We have been separated since dday because of my work through our church. We always set up times we will talk and such.

Wow you brought tears to my eyes reading your letter.

That's one reason I could never do this to someone I love because to hear the extreme pain in your loved ones words would be too much for me to handle. To know now the pain I myself barely survived from and to be able

to hurt someone so much and sometimes I just don't think they get it.

It reminded me once of when my WS was away on business and he made his ritual "call in" to his wife to tell me he was safe, ok, missed me and loved me then he said Oh gotta go they are waiting for me to eat dinner bye love you and before I could even get 2 words out of my mouth he was gone. At that moment I just shrugged it off and said oh well no big deal and now I look back and say Wow you felt that obligated to have to call me and tell me you loved me and missed me which now I know was all bullshit just part of the play, the act, the lies.

Some things I will never be able to forget or get over and we are 3 years out. Sometimes I pray that we could reconcile but then when I read these posts I know it would be killing me everyday to trust and just to survive all the triggers.

Tough

Good Luck at least you have a chance. Try to make the most of it I hope she gets it!

Stillloving.

Yup, for me forgiveness is a constant process. It would be nice if it wasn't, but I am just not there yet.

And then the struggle will become more about yourself and less about your marriage

Can you expand on this more for me?

Heartache:

We have a lot of boundaries, but the drinking had not really been discussed. It was more of a check in..don't stay out late...don't go out to after event parties. To be fair to her...she actually thought she was doing great. miscommunication on my/our part.

Hail:

I don't know if the pain wouldn't still be there if we didn't reconcile. I mean the damage is already done, and she still would have been a part of my life due to the three young kids.

For me, the process is still worth it...But I do have a remorseful spouse, and we are committed together, so yes...pain still..but less than it used to be, and now lots of joy is starting to come back too.

But yes..knowing the pain that this crap causes, I could never do that to anyone..much less myself..because I also see the damage that it did to my wife.

Thanks for sharing WonderBoy. I recognized a lot of those feelings in there.

I'm thankful my WW's affair wasn't of that romantic nature. Her AP really didn't invest in her at all. But I never got to see the emails or texts they exchanged because she deleted them immediately to cover her tracks. Somedays I wish I did, because like you say, I wasn't there. Even though almost all her "events" occurred in her car in a parkade and were short in duration...I find myself still wondering what that looked like. She's been forthcoming with details, and still I wonder.

Painful stuff. Glad to hear she's trying. Maybe she'll be respectful of your triggers and try to change the way she conducts herself to grant you some relief.

WB,

I haven't forgotten this, I just haven't had time to write a well thought out response.

I will get back to you tonight.

hopefully today is easier on you.

Well, she didn't drink at all last night. At least that's what she told me when she called to say goodnight. (but I believe her..I can tell when she has had a couple of drinks). So that's a good thing.

I will feel much better when she gets home tonight. I hate these trips.

that's an improvement I suppose.

What i mean by "the struggle becomes less about your marriage and more about you"...

For the first 18 months or so(longer if the WW isnt fully cooperative, for me it was at about 3 years due to other distractions from self) its all about trauma recovery, getting your feet back under you, punishment, building self esteem, working out what you have left together and what you can build on...etc...all relatively obvious issues and processes. And also largely done either as a couple or at least with the other spouse in mind.

Once you decide to R and get through all or most of the above steps, thats when things begin to normalize. And normal is where shit gets weird! Once things settle, your mind actually has the time and focus to form self centered thoughts, or at least thats when mine started.

You see, initially, for me, it was all about...

Can i forgive her?

Can i live with what she did?

Can i love her?

What is she thinking about?

What is she doing?

Can we ever be as good as i thought we were?

Can i be what she needs/wants?

Then normalcy crept in, and in with it came a shift of thought.

I began to think of myself, of MY wants, MY dreams, MY needs.

I began thinking of whats lost, that can never be ruturned. The ideals that were so important to me. Beleive it or not, being able to tell my grandchildren when im an old ass fart, that grams n gramps have been married forever and have always been faithful to each other was a serious goal of mine, a dream. A dream that i now am forced to drop. Well, a dream thats a decade in the making doesnt just evaporate, it hangs around, it pops into your head just as a reminder.

A dream like that carries a bat, and smacks your current reality right in the nuts, just to test its durability.

All the existential crap creeps in. All the self doubting questions about "shifting morals" and "if she ever cheats again...! ...wait, well shit, if her cheating AGAIN is a dealbreaker, why the fuck isnt this one!?!? Why wasnt this the last straw FOR ME!?" Are boundaries retroactive?

Now, im not saying that these types of thoughts arent present in the early days, they are. But later on, when my brain stopped swirling and became less and less we/her focussed, these thoughts really took center stage.

Hope that made some sense and wasnt too much of a downer.

That was very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to express that to me.

It certainly gives me something to think about. I have been so focused on saving me and us, I never thought about what would happen when we got out of triage. Damnit. I was expecting unicorns and rainbows.

Damnit. I was expecting unicorns and rainbows.

At least you are photogenic, that's nothing to sneeze about.

you're welcome. Im not all doom n gloom these days though.

I have to admit, I never thought that we would be all unicorns and rains rainbows. I'd seen in the past what affairs do to families. So going into R I just kinda figured what we ended up with would be "tolerable" . But we've managed much much better than that.

But every once in awhile one of those normal days gets to me and turns some gears in my head. Those are the days when I remind myself that forgiveness is ACTIVE choice that, for the time being, requires a little maintenance.

Wonderboy, I understand what you are saying. My thoughts for you. If she didn't have an outside job, wouldn't you wonder what she did during the day while you were at work? Wonder what she is doing while you are out of town overnight with your job? So really, the issue is more just finally having confidence that it won't happen again. Her being on a trip is a trigger because of the past and I get that. But if she is going to cheat again, it can happen anytime and anywhere. So, again, it comes down to regaining trust and comfort with her. Once you are fully there, her trips will bother you no more than when you hit the road for work and she is at home. You 2 have been doing great and you are going to get there. Just more time!!

You say you wonder if she really gets the extent of the damage done. Truthfully, I don't think anyone can understand the full extent, and the fact that it is to some extent forever, if they haven't suffered a betrayal themself. But I suspect that your W understands much more than what you think. But it is extremely painful to her. Think about how painful it would be to you if you had to accept that you had imposed such pain on her. And I bet she struggles with facing that everyday. And has to try to get past it to keep functioning. She can't wallow in it and berate herself every day. She can't punish herself constantly. If she did, she couldn't do her part of rebuilding your lives and M. She has to heal and get this behind her. Not forget the lessons learned; but get past self loathing and move on to starting life anew. So maybe what you see as not being aware of damage done is really more her trying to move on and rebuild.

Your recent posts tell me she is working hard at rebuilding and making you feel loved. That's a real positive. Hang in there.

Tred: That is true. I should never ignore my handsomeness.

I feel the same way about when my husband is supposed to go out of town. The OW left the place where she worked, and my husband still does business with that 'store' so I feel a little better that they would not run into each other.

My anxiety comes from the fact that I feel like he has a whole other life that I know nothing about. And he told me a couple of guys knew about his affair and I was pissed off that no one had my back...but why would they tell me? I've never even met them. They don't know that I am a good person and that I love my husband and my children.

I would love to go on these business trips to learn more about what he does and the people he works with. The corporate world seems to be a breeding ground for affairs.

When my father worked for IBM I remember them having dinners with co workers, sometimes the spouses were invited on trips, there were family events for all of the employees, etc. Your coworkers were aware of your family.

I just found out about his A on 4/14/13 so he has not been on a business trip yet. There is one scheduled in June and it is for 5 days and I am panicking every time I think about it.

I hope you did share this with your wife. My goal is to step out of my comfort zone and be totally honest about what I am feeling about everything...no matter how trivial it may seem. There are not a lot of trivial aspects of this event and I have to keep telling myself this. I need to do this to relieve my pain and if he loves me he will help me through it. So far he has been very good with it. I see his remorse when he sees the pain he has caused me. I know we have a long road ahead of us.

1985:

That's powerful and insightful stuff. I do feel a lot of the trust coming back. I don't feel the need to check her emails or phone anymore. I don't even check her phone gps when she is on trips. So the trust is coming back. She actually travels a lot, the single overnight trips I am o.k. with...it's the conferences that are just a huge trigger for me. Not as much as they used to be, but it really brings the memories crashing back.

I get what you are saying about the self-punishment. And I have been trying to empathize with what she must be going through. But there are times that it is difficult to break out of the BS mindset. Especially when she's at a conference.

So maybe what you see as not being aware of damage done is really more her trying to move on and rebuild.

I think this is probably right on. Thanks.