SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Number 1....stop comparing. Stop comparing her daughter to your kids and other kids. Number 2...you are the adult. I say number 1 because I have 3 children. My oldest has thrown maybe 5 tantrums in her life. She is so intelligent we knew at a year old she was going to gifted. When she was little and a whiney tone would enter her voice, all I had to do was say, "eh," and she would correct herself. The middle one is totallllllllyyyyyyy different. She would throw tantrums to the point that WH thought she was autistic. It's just her personality. She is tough. She is stubborn. But as the adult I can't throw a tantrum with her. I have to be the level headed one and see her through these episodes and teach her the proper way to respond. Nothing I did with her was different than I did with the oldest. I taught middle school...I know that if I let a kid get away with something, they will learn to do it again and again. Just different kids. I don't see why you can't help with teaching (not disciplining her). Like if she gets to the point of hyper ventilating, teaching her how to breath and count to 10. Show her you can be a safe place. Not so that she will get her way, but that you can help her calm down. My middle has gotten so worked up that when I'm trying to get her to calm down she will scream and cry that she wants to...she wants to stop crying. She needed to be shown how.

Also regarding the change. Looking into IC for the daughter might be a good idea. My mother watched my oldest daughter from birth to a year old. After that they were closer than her and I were, probably might ever be. When my mom moved to California when she was almost 4, you would think a kid that age can adjust. She really has never been the same. She never turned "bratty" but she was and still is very emotionally fragile. My daughter who even at 3 was a take charge kind of kid retreated. Something to think about.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 1:03 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

I disagree with IC for the child *for now.* I believe the situation should be approached by the two of you going to counseling and learning more effective ways of dealing with conflict and differing opinions. I would find someone who could incorporate the child into family counseling when the time was appropriate.

Bulldozer, meeting and marrying within 6 months is quite hurried, and I believe the child may be acting out due to the change. Additionally, since you wed in relative haste, you likely did not take the time to really think about what it truly means to blend families and how difficult the role of step-parent truly is.

Shoot, married within 6 months would be hard for an adult to adjust, let alone a 4-year-old.

This child is obviously crying out for consistency, structure and predictability. You and your wife need to find a way to make that happen and to learn to parent more effectively. I would suggest MC yesterday.

Cat

P.S. I raised two extremely well-behaved children whose manners were a joy most of the time. I did this with predictability, structure and clearly communicating expectations vs. waiting to react to poor behavior.

I agree with Cat regarding IC for the kid. What??? She's four years old, and acting like it. Maybe not like EVERY four year old, but certainly consistent with her age and having a new stepparent.

The dynamic has already started down the wrong path. You pitting yourself against the child (behavior), and mom stuck in the middle. You will lose EVERY TIME... as a mom a guarantee this... especially if she is a good, loving mother.

I agree with everyone that said that you - as the adult having the problem, need to look for ways to be comfortable, and to positively interract with this child.

I am not sure exactly what the answer is, but I think your actions so far have been childish, and not productive at all. (walking home, secretly scheduling being away from the house)

There is a ton of great words / advice.

I have 3 kiddos. The first one trail blazed a path wide and far. :) She is beyond intelligent & is bi-polar (diagnosed / medicated starting at age 14). I know what it is like to have difficulty in behaviors / moods / choices in a child.

What I learned was keep it simple. It has made my life more peaceful and keeps everyone on the same page.

I have 3 things that are important. The rest can be negotiated.

1) I love kiddo more than the world. Bunches and Oodles. To the moon and back. This will never change.

2) I hate whining. (Yes, I truly can tune it out and I will blankly stare at the child. All I have to do is say "I hate whining" and it makes the kiddo whining, take a breath and speak normally or go away.)

3) I have final word on Health, Safety, Education. No if's, and's or but's. Again, I have mastered the "I am the adult" and I walk away.

For behaviors that are "unacceptable" I ask myself this:

1) does it affect me or kiddo in a negative manner?

2) Is it hurting others?

If I answer yes, I fall back on asking kiddo this --

"Do you think that (this) is the right (correct) choice?"

While you may receive snotty answers, I just keep asking that same question over and over. It makes the child think. It makes the child be accountable that I didn't force them to say, bully another child.

Four year olds are masters in manipulation.

Bottom line:

KISS with what rules are important.

Be consistent with those rules between you and your wife.

You are the adult. You rule.

Wish you the best

I think the suggestion of IC is not being mentioned because the kid has some deep psychological issue that needs intensive medical help. And it's not a way to sweep away the "bratty" issue. Obviously it would be over reaction to put a kid in IC just because they are being a kid. But with the change of new man, moving, and whatever issues there are with bio dad, if any, it's not far fetched that some of these reactions are due to not being able to verbalize and express her feelings. You don't want that sitting in her little heart and head. She might get over it...she might get worse (assuming those things are causing her to act out). Just an idea for the future that play therapy might help.

Bulldozer - I dont mean to chime in here with more 2x4's but....there are alot more issues then a normal 4 year old girls behavior.

1. TCD said stop comparing - and she is right. This little girl is her own unique person and you need to realize that your tools that you had for your kids, are not going to fit this little girl.

2. You need to sit down with your wife, and have a SERIOUS parenting conversation. And honestly, parenting classes, read some books, but dont blame the little girl - i get she is smart, but she is only 4 and only 'knows' so much.

3. The little girl's whole world just got changed. Some adults couldnt handle what just happened to her, please dont expect that she, at her young age, can grasp what exactly just happened to her world. When my parents got divorced, i was in play therapy for a while and it helped alot.

4. Compassion - learn it, live it. You can be caring, loving, doting, and nice - without spoiling her. She only has so many words to express her feelings, so sometimes all she can do is scream and shout and throw herself on the floor.

Its frustrating because you think she should be acting one way, and she won't. You are the adult, the only one that is actually capable of handling this situation maturely. Step up and start thinking like an adult rather then fighting with a kid.

Dozer,

I haven't step parented so take this from whence it comes a mom to 4 kids in 4 years.

When I was pregnant with my first kids (twins) a book on twins suggested that the parents have a discussion on discipline. We were to draw up guidelines for behavior that we considered unacceptable. In those guidelines we were to also put the consequences. It was suggested that we choose (then before the babies were born) what is a spankable offense. Because we may be prone to spanking if we were brought up in a household that spanked. (I was, XH not) These guidelines were to be printed and posted on the fridge. I did it with an idea of 'yea right' not expecting it to make a bit of difference in our parenting. XH and I had very different philosophies on everything... we did this with the idea maybe one thing would could agree on would be disciplining our kids.

It worked better than I could have expected.. we were great parents together. Those guidelines really helped us to open the door to more parenting discussions as our babies grew and we added to your family.

I would suggest you and your wife do the same thing...

And if you want to reward good behavior - that's fine. but rewarding the absence of offensive behavior is not a good idea. They can choose several offensive behaviors to win rewards from.

Good luck

Hugs,

K

The problem is not the child, it is the mother.

But my wife tries to reason with her.

Right there, you should not try to reason with a child because they are not mature enough to understand logic and negotiations. In your example at the restaurant, there should not have been any negotiation and certainly no bribing. It should have been "Please stop swinging your legs because it shakes the table." Followed by "If you do not stop then we will leave." Firm but calm, with an explanation of why the behavior must stop followed by a clear consequence if the behavior does not stop.

she defends her daughter and says "She's just being a four-year-old."

Your wife is absolutely right here. She is only 4 and she is behaving like a 4 yr old that has not been given clear boundaries. She is not even push boundaries because there are few if any (IMO). As a 4 yr old, she wants what she wants and she wants it now and she has learned that to get what she wants she needs to howl. She is a "brat" because she has been taught to be a brat. That is NOT her fault!

Unfortunately, as a step parent, there is not much you can do. My only suggestion is MC for you and your wife to discuss a better way to parent this child and to learn how to set firm but reasonable boundaries.

Best of luck

Well, if one takes discipline to mean to teach and guide there may be room for a step-parent to be involved, albeit in a different way.

I have a bright, difficult preschooler - - at 3.5 my H and I were both at near breakdown dealing with him. We went to a pediatric behaviorist who was extremely helpful (and she did say 3.5-4 was the worst acc to their call log for intakes)! Some ideas most of which are not traditionally punitive:

1. Is she highly motivated by watching a cartoon? Or something else? This is the key to the morning or evening routine. My son must get dressed, eat, brush teeth, etc and only then does he get his 20 minute cartoon. We are very low-key, don't make it a punishment or a reward - - it is just you must do these X things before your cartoon.

2. For a while we used large visual timers and gave a standardized 5 and 2 minute warning before transitions. My son had a lot of difficulty with transitions.

3. Spending 1:1 special time each day with the child -- 15 minutes, child chooses what to do, no interruptions, calls etc allowed. I would think this would include you and be beneficial to your r'ship with her.

4. There is a book called Playful Parenting that is helpful for defusing situations and power struggles. It involves a lot of silliness on the parents' part and can feel awkward and not "tough" enough but it does work for many kids.

5. We do the 1, 2, 3 and then at 3 the child loses a privilege or has a time-out (we usually reserve time-out for hitting only). 1, 2, 3 said calmly and gently is not harsh discipline IMO. The trick is to figure out her "currency" -- what does it bother her for you/your wife to take away.

Anyway, I know you need to negotiate what you versus your wife will do but perhaps some of these suggestions will not seem unduly "punitive" to her. I think you need to discuss what methods she will employ, what methods you can employ, which you will both use. Personally, I don't see it as viable to live in a house where you have zero disciplinary authority -- that it like being a preschool hostage.

Hey BD - saw your post.

Here is the problem:

The biggest problem is that my wife's parents were very strict and she doesn't want to repeat that pattern.

I'm with Cat and SSM on IC - I'm a firm believer that it doesn't take a village psychotherapist to raise a child, it takes informed, mature capable parents.

So reality is that for a key period of two years (ages 2-4) your step-daughter has had less discipline than desirable or little discipline at all. Not good, but also not irreparable. Allow her to get to ten or eleven this way and you'll have a teen disaster.

Your 'stretch': you have to understand and respect your wife's views about not wanting to be too strict while convincing her that avoiding discipline is a recipe for disaster. The other part of your 'stretch' is that while you want to avoid the child's behavior (understandably) you actually need to spend MORE time with her and particularly one-on-one.

Your wife's 'stretch': Your wife needs to discover somehow that she is complicit in the creation of a monster. She has to be the key person, with your help, to turn this around now.

What TChinaDoll said is true here too - you can't be involved in just discipline, you have to take over as father.

By the way, a great rule of parenting (or criticism in general) is for every critical comment or behavior correction you should try to provide FIVE positive comments. Given the behavior described this means you're going to be very busy!

Good luck! TR

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 4:23 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

As a fellow stepfather I want you to know that you've been heard. Step parenting is tough. It takes time to build a relationship with a stepchild, sometimes years depending on the situation. I can understand your frustration. Being in the step role can feel like you are expected to be involved and not involved at the same time. It really wears on you. There are so many factors here that its hard to really say what will and won't work for you. Each child is different. Each marriage is different. Influences from extended family are all different. Then throwing in the step parent role adds a uncertainty multiplier of 10.

I would suggest you take a step back if possible. Be there for your wife but let your wife handle the discipline exclusively if possible. You may not agree with her approach but it is her daughter. I had to learn that too. Distance yourself from the negative aspects of interacting with your SD and be a positive role model for her at times when she's receptive. At those times when you've reached your boiling point I think its totally appropriate to tell your wife that you need to remove yourself from the situation to calm down, or get a break, whatever.

There are no easy answers for this kind of thing but I can tell you that initially my stepson and I did not get along (he was 6 at the time). He wasn't being disciplined like I thought and he seemed spoiled and catered to. It bugged the ever living hell out of me. I tried to step in and be his "new dad". It caused a lot of issues in our marriage. Over time I realized I had to let go of some of the control I felt I needed to have and just let our relationship develop over time. Now 11 years later I can say my stepson and I are closer than he is with his own mother. Granted you are dealing with a 4 yr old girl, but I'd imagine the same can happen for you.

I know this is hard. I won't question your decision to marry when you did like others have. You are where you are and it's good you are reaching out for some insight instead of just throwing in the towel, even though you may feel like it sometimes. Keep searching, read books, get MC, ask others in similar situations, find a step parent support group even. Whatever you need to do to find some level of sanity at this point in time. Stay strong.

Your 'stretch': you have to understand and respect your wife's views about not wanting to be too strict while convincing her that avoiding discipline is a recipe for disaster. The other part of your 'stretch' is that while you want to avoid the child's behavior (understandably) you actually need to spend MORE time with her and particularly one-on-one.

Your wife's 'stretch': Your wife needs to discover somehow that she is complicit in the creation of a monster. She has to be the key person, with your help, to turn this around now.

^^^ Excellent

I agree with Dreamboat. No matter what is going on in her life, or maybe because she has stuff going in her life, this little one needs firm consistent boundaries. Those can only be provided by her Mother.

In a perfect world, all this would have been thoroughly discussed prior to marriage. However, that ship has sailed. You and wife need to get together on this parenting thing, or you might have to throw in the towel.

Avoiding this is not going to work for long. It will build resentment on everyone's part.

Sending strength and peace.

NL

Those can only be provided by her Mother.

*Disagree strongly* for several reasons:

(1) the Mother isn't going to do it without help, support and convincing that it's the right thing to do

(2) Fathers play a KEY role in the development of daughters and their self-image. Please trust me on this!

It may be 'contrarian theory' but I reiterate here that BD should spend MORE time with her, rather than less, MODELING good parenting while his wife makes a needed adjustment to parenting reality.

Step parenting, schmep parenting. Step up to the plate and take over as PARENT(S). The alternative, which is a disaster, is that the KID takes over.

[This message edited by TrulyReconciled at 4:31 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

Step parenting, schemp parenting. Step up to the plate and take over as PARENT(S).

Ummm...ouch? As a step parent who was a parent, it didn't happen without the full cooperation of my XH AND his XW. Key info is missing here, mainly the role that this child's father is playing followed by the mother's history as to number of SO's, etc. that have already been in the child's life since she and her father split.

The alternative, which is a disaster, is that the KID takes over.

In this case, IMO, the kid already has taken over and it looks from the peripheral that no one is willing to do what is needed to change things, even generationally. Everyone is in agreement about her being a brat, but no one is stepping to the plate to mitigate her behavior. My suggestion of IC (and I could have been clearer when making it) is sometimes behaviors in children mask the real problem and folks that have studied the four year old brain just might provide a clue or two as to what is really going on. Let's do the math here - the child was approximately 2.5 when they met. Within the next year or less, she had another man brought into her life (again, comment made without knowing the role of her birth father) and was moved away from her world as she knew it. That would make any kid, regardless of age, a little crazed.

I know this is a stretch, but it almost sounds as if the mother has relinquished discipline to make up for all the disruption that has happened in such a very short time. Guilt perhaps?

Step parenting, schemp parenting. Step up to the plate and take over as PARENT(S).

Ummm...ouch? As a step parent who was a parent, it didn't happen without the full cooperation of my XH AND his XW.

Agree with ajsmom completely. I don't believe step parents should unilaterally discipline. And I'm speaking as someone who was (verbally) given full parenting rights and responsibilities by XSO, up to and including spanking (which I never, ever did... the thought of putting my hands on someone's kid like that horrified me). He said treat them as your own... I was not okay with that, ever. Because they WEREN'T my own. I could not treat them as such. I was not their parent and heaven knows I would resent the fuck out of anyone treating the bunch that way.

[This message edited by wildbananas at 5:15 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

A kid craves routine. In a matter of 4 short years, this little girl lived through her parents separation, your quick courtship, mariage and move. So she lost the family as she knew it and her home. That's a lot to absorb. Gosh, I would be acting up too.

I don't believe that routine is the answer at this point. She needs routine and boundaries. And patience from you.

She didn't choose the life she is living right now and is probably acting out to be heard.

Here is the thing: You are beginning to hate this child. Her mother loves her without reserve. A mother who loves her child (as she should) will instinctively hate anyone who is critical of her child.

So, you are put in the position of your wife throwing up a wall whenever you try to discuss this behavior problem. She will see every word as you wanting to punish her daughter. She will not be open to your help or suggestions. A recipe for disaster.

The best thing, IMO, is to work on finding a way to like then love this child. By doing so you will reassure her mom that you don't have bad intentions for the child. Your wife needs to see you as part of the team parenting her child.

One thing I always thought to myself during discipline was that I didn't want to raise a child that other people didn't want to be around. I've seen it happen. The child grows up and wonders why nobody likes her. My mother did this with my sister and it caused my sis serious problems with friends and with her self-esteem.

sometimes behaviors in children mask the real problem and folks that have studied the four year old brain just might provide a clue or two as to what is really going on.

First, rule out this. If there is something going on other than poor parenting, bad boundaries and a whole heaping lot of change all at once, you need to attend to that.

Secondly, get into counseling. You two. As a couple. As the ADULTS in the relationship. You need to have better tools in your toolbox to deal with parenting in a blended family environment. Bring in the girl's father if you can. ALL of you need to be on the SAME PAGE and providing the same sorts of consistent, loving environments and the same consistent behavioral standards.

Already resentment is poisoning your marriage so much that you cannot express appreciation to your wife of less than a year. Doesn't that just scream at you that you need to do something? And doesn't that scream at you that YOU are also part of the problem? You already dislike this child. Don't think she doesn't pick up on it. She does. If you would like to avoid a teenhood of angst and tension, address it now.

If you would like to avoid a trip to divorce court in a year, address it now.

Bulldozer, you have a track record of being very impetuous and then not understanding why everything isn't fairy farts and skittle shits. You need to understand and embrace that you and your wife came into all of this in a mad rush and have created a situation that will take time to unravel and set straight. You have a child with a limited understanding of some enormous changes that were imposed upon her. She may have other issues. Check that out, as AJsMom has advised.

But above all, you and your wife need to obtain the tools to learn how to provide a loving atmosphere with boundaries and predictability.

I, too, was raised with a very strict set of parents. I am ever grateful for that. Sometimes they went too far. But I grew up with a sense of knowing the rules and being able to live with them. I also grew up with a great sense of fiscal responsibility. Had I not had this, I would be out on the street in a cardboard box by now.

Kids need rules and boundaries and predictability. Otherwise, they will run amok until they figure out where that boundary is. Guess what happens when they cannot find a boundary? Yep--they keep pushing until they find it. How far are you two willing to let this go?

Find a good family counselor that can help you get the right tools in your toolbox. Rule out any physical or psychological issues with the daughter (my bet is that all the change coupled with no boundaries has created your situation, but I could be wrong).

Otherwise, we may be seeing you again in D&S. I don't think you want that, and we don't either.

Cat

But with the change of new man, moving, and whatever issues there are with bio dad, if any, it's not far fetched that some of these reactions are due to not being able to verbalize and express her feelings. You don't want that sitting in her little heart and head. She might get over it...she might get worse (assuming those things are causing her to act out).

^^^^This. Family counseling would be the best place to start, IMO. It will help give you and your wife the tools to work together on this, and it will help your SD deal with whatever is going on with her. This is fixable but it takes time, patience and consistency. It will be worth it - trust me. I raised two stepchildren that had some pretty serious emotional issues thanks to their birth mother. We sought out counseling many times over the years for each of them and for us. BTW, they were 3 and 6 when I came into the picture, and they were a mess.

[This message edited by kernel at 7:19 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]