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The OP is absolutely, 100% to blame for their shitty actions also. Is it wrong to believe that everyone has a responsibility to act right..? I guess I just had higher expectations/ standards for people.

And guess what- it's OK to hate.. and can actually be an empowering thing. There's no rulebook that says you HAVE to forgive anyone or anything. Here's what I want to know: WHY are women so underhanded, insidious and evil..?? (not including women with a moral code who respect other peoples' relas.)

And WHY is there a 'Guy Code'-where they cover each other and protect each other's shitty behavior.. but there doesn't seem to be any 'Girl Code'..?? When I was young and innocent I used to assume everyone was like me and women just had the decency to look out for each other and do the right thing. NOW I see, I couldn't possibly be more wrong.....

I thing I do wonder about often though is when people say the AP seduced our WS.

If that's true then a lot of our WS's sure get seduced pretty damn easily. I'm just saying.

My FWH said that as well. All of his AP's came on to him, and pursued him!!! Hard!!! Except he flirted with them incessantly and made it very known that he was OPEN to more and then they pursued him. He flirted because they gave him the ego stroke. Then when they pursued him, he got even more of an ego stroke. And thus the dance began.

And WHY is there a 'Guy Code'-where they cover each other and protect each other's shitty behavior

careful, you can't generalise like that. Any friend of mine who confides in me that he is betraying his wife will be given 24 hours to come clean. They could shove their "guy code"

I wish I could be the bigger person here and not let OW affect me. Granted, almost all of the responsibility falls on my WH for the initial affair. But as far as the broken NC, the texts, the calls, the Facebook, and the being a shitty human being in general falls squarely on both of their shoulders. He for reinviting this psycho into my life and her for now knowingly pursuing a married man. They should both be shamed and dishonored. Whores, the both of them. And in the worst, narcissistic way possible. My life has been taken away by these two academy award winners and now it is in a shambles, and I hold them both responsible.

But that is my choice for my situation. I really think that how much blame you dole out on the AP greatly depends on what kind of person you are and how you process trauma. I don't fault others for grieving differently. In the end, you have to make the best out of an untenable situation the best you know how.

Just my shillings worth.

I have often wondered how much of the "but they pursued him relentlessly!" stories are true. Sounds like a great way to shift blame or minimize.

My XWW is the one who cheated on me. Couldn't say I liked the other guys, or that I wouldn't want harm to come to them, but mostly I don't care about them. Even after the first affair when I forgave her.

[This message edited by wonderpets at 7:28 PM, May 19th (Sunday)]

I hate her.

I wish a house, piano or anvil would fall on her. I've wished her dead numerous times.

She a piece of trash for pursuing a MM. She knew he was married, knew he had kids and didn't care. 2 weeks in and I ceased to exist. She was grooming herself to move into being stepmom to my kids.

WH is a poor excuse for a human being as well, he knew she was married, he knew she had kids, he didn't give a shit about any of us. We were collateral damage.

I blame both of them, selfish, self centered assholes.

The "guy code"? There is one for girls too.

If I ever went the RA route, I have a couple of gf's who told me they would cover for me if I needed it.

Yes, they are still my friends.

I don't plan on a RA, I'm not that broken.

I have often wondered how much of the "but they pursued him relentlessly!" stories are true. Sounds like a great way to shift blame or minimize.

How is it blameshifting or minimizing if we believe this happened, but also believe our FWS is fully responsible for his/her part in it? I'm not blameshifting or minimizing anything but I still think it is very likely the A never would have happened if not for the persistent actions of the whore.

Also, after the A was over, I got to hear how she operates. She left several voice mails for my H, begging, blubbering, bawling how she missed him, just wanted to hear his voice...and the last one, she blubbered how she needed to see him, and luuuuuuuuuvvved him so much.

(This was all after an NC letter was sent).

My H never heard those messages because she left them on an abandoned secret tracfone which he had given to me. This was good evidence he was NOT in contact with her; otherwise she would have known not to call THAT phone.

But the bottom line is while I forgave my H for what happened, he knows that if he were ever to fall for any such crap again, no matter how hard anybody pursued or manipulated, I would divorce him faster than he ever thought possible.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:24 PM, May 19th (Sunday)]

I think there is a misconception that to feel something requires action of some sort. I hate the OM and always will but at the same time do not feel he is worth the legal consequences of visiting any kind of pain on him, so I don't bother putting any energy into that.

It also seems that equal responsibility is assumed to merit equal attention - I have read posts where people have asked if you were going to hit the OM, would you hit your wife as well - and IMO it's not so simple as that. We don't take the OP with us to counseling for the same reason we don't consider bringing violence to our spouses - the OP aren't people we want/ed in our lives, while our spouses are/were. It is okay to have a bias like that, I think. There are a lot of other reasons that surround this, but in the end it's because of familiarity with one and lack of familiarity with another. There's a reason that infidelity with a family member or long term friend has its own ICR thread, and it's because you can't always just write off the OP as a faceless non-entity with a magical penis or vagina.

I think it's just fine to continue hating the OP simply because I have a lot of work to put into building a relationship with my wife, and that's hard enough even with all the history we have, all the love I have for her and all the hard work she's doing to make us work. There's none of that between me and the OM, which means the best he gets is me not driving several hundred miles to lose my shit on him. They were both equally responsible, my wife said her vows to me but she's also my wife. So the same thing that makes it very complicated with us is lacking between me and the OM, making it very simple - no reason not to hate him.

As for a guy code, unless it's up-up, down-down, left-right, left-right, B-A-start or jacking open the console for Medieval 2 so I can pimp out agents with crazy traits and other shit for video games, I don't do cheat codes. I won't stay friends with anybody who does.

My H was 100% responsible for what he did. The OW was 100% responsible for what she did.

In our case she brought it, loaded it, handed it to him and while her filthy hands where still on it, he pulled the trigger. They are both guilty for the damage and injury.

Yes, I hate her guts. I have no reason to change that or reconcile her actions. In order to reconcile with my H, I have to find a way to not hate him and move forward past the scars.

Yeah I hate and blame MOW too. She was employed by my WH so had seen me and the kids on many occasions. I was always pleasant and nice to her. Would always greet her with a hug.

I'm not even sure if hate can even describe how I feel towards her.

She's everywhere. Just opened my laptop to upload some photos and her face pops up in iPhoto of videos we made. Triggers never end because she's in all my important memories.

I think, too, that I see my wife everyday, and she apologizes frequently, so that plays a role, in my mind. In my case, OM was a close friend and has never once apologized or anything. After DDAY, he texted my wife to say that *I* shouldn't do anything crazy, revenge-wise. Not me, but my wife. I will never not hate him, but if he ever sincerely apologized for his actions, I think a lot of the white hot rage would dissipate.

We don't take the OP with us to counseling...

I have sometimes wondered what that would be like, in theory only of course. I don't even think a MC would do it, but I've wondered what the conversation would be like, as a purely imaginary thought exercise.

Thanks everyone for your input. I haven't had a post like that get so much response.

I will keep you posted if I ever stop hating the OW. I know that I will always put 50% of the blame on her.

Takes two to tango

FACEPUNCHED: I could never have a session with her. I would scratch her eyes out.

I don't wish the OW dead or hurt. Just really humiliated and her reputation destroyed.

There are two things that can stop affairs from happening.

The first is the WS choosing to be faithful.

The second is for OP to say no.

If the WS has nobody to have an affair with, there is no affair. Well, unless WS lies and says they are single.

Blaming the AP for the affair is completely legit.

That being said, letting that hate control your life is not. Don't let the AP win.

Oh, one more thing.

For people who believe that the AP owed them nothing:

If some random person came up to you with a crowbar and asked you to hit their spouse over the head with it for no reason, would you do it?

Just because someone's spouse gives you permission To be a shitty human being doesn't mean that you get to be one. People owe each other basic kindness and respect.

I hate the OW because they get to walk off afterwards without dealing with any consequences or pain.

My wife's AP came into my life and tried destroying it. He hurt my wife in a very terrible way. For that, I'll probably hold him in contempt for the rest of my life.

He was a manipulative predator who seemingly enjoyed fucking around with a mentally unstable and at the time vulnerable woman. Seriously, he's a piece of work and quite disgusting as a human being. I still struggle to understand the way that man treated and spoke to my wife. Thankfully the kind folks here on SI helped me a bit with that months ago, yet it still gets to me.

I try to be indifferent to him, and it's where I one day wish to be but I'd love if he was dead. It would be one thing if he was some guy who "loved" my wife, or even just wanted a piece of fucked up ass, but this guy was actively encouraging my wife to destroy her life and seemingly even pushed her toward suicide. He KNEW how fucked in the head she was at the time and had no problem taken advantage of that. He used her, and seemingly bragged about it to her. He knew how to fuck with her head, and did.

I can't even say I hate him, just want him dead. It's utter and complete contempt for who he is.

I get the "focus on your spouse, they made vows, they betrayed you" and I agree. I hold my wife entirely responsible for all of this when it comes to me. But he had his part, his half. And for that I'm wholly capable of blaming him and having whatever emotional reaction I choose to have regarding him.

If someone broke into my home and stole my things I'd be mighty pissed at them too. Even if my wife opened the door and said "have at it." If someone decided it would be a good day to run me over while I was walking I'd be pissed all the same. It goes for anything. It's considered decency and doing the right thing. I don't get why some people advocate "forget the AP, stop blaming them, etc." when this shit is more damaging to your life than almost anything. People would not react that way if the AP did any number of other things, so why that reaction to something as egregious an affair I don't know.

Yes, our spouses did it, but well, it takes two. And the other half is just as responsible as the half I'm married to.

[This message edited by VD2012 at 12:52 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

I must add that a lot of APs are still in contact after D-Day. Doesn't mean they were doing a good job while A was secret, but, continuing an A even after BS is shattered is deliberate cruelty causing emotional breakdown.

OM knew I had come to know and had warned him with dire consequences through exW (don't know if she relayed the message to him) Yet he took it as a challenge to meet her talk over the phone etc. I know ExW also played a part in continuing the A but, OM should have atleast backed off citing physical harm from me.

What puzzles me is while talking to OBS about his immature behavior I got to know that OBS was never allowed to talk to a male colleague at home. It made him angry and would throw a tantrum in a fit of rage.

My point is he exactly understood what it does to a man if his wife just talks to a male colleague, but, he did not understand what it does to another man when OM has an A with another man's wife.

There is more, when I read the reply to the legal notices I sent to exW, OBS quickly pointed out that some of the words and sentences are signature OMs language.

He used the same 'Law of the land' and 'amicably settle' words he used with OBS.

OM met ExW before sitting for negotiations of finances to give her strength (from a mole in her office) He traveled to the office he was thrown off just to meet ExW.

On the day of D, OM was still texting her on her 'other' phone. Maybe it was his way to get to me.

I wonder if he will realize that his actions cost him a breakup of a family.

He will keep Ex as a mistress and use her as booty call. I thought exW was smarter than this. Well you can have him miss, you totally deserve him.

I outed the A to OM's family. Got the cops to his place of work. Humiliated him at the police station. Got an NC written in the police station. His father pleaded not to harm him physically. His brother was not talking to him. I threatened to rough him up at his residence (he got a friend to sleep at his place for 2 weeks). I exposed the A to his boss. He got kicked out of the project to another office location. His HR and top bosses in that account came to know about the A. Did everything I could, but, still seems less.

I'm having a rough day.

I can hate the AP even though my WH is completely responsible for his decision to cheat. Since Dday my WH has been completely transparent, changed his addictive behaviors, and is actively participating in the M. His behavior demonstrates his commitment to me and the new M.

The AP read his (stupid) dating site post that he was interested in investments and immediately pounced. The AP asked for advice for her infant son's college fund. Within hours the AP invited my WH to her father's house and opened the front door in her bathrobe. She made herself available instantly and followed up with phone calls and "dates". The AP knew he was married. She didn't even know his name. She saw dollar signs. The AP is still out there trolling. Her behavior hasn't changed an iota.

I don't hate my H, but if I see any behavior from my WH that duplicates the dysfunctional crap he demonstrated for years before and during the A, I'm out of here.

If it were murder instead of cheating the AP would be convicted right along with the WS.