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With all do respect, I completely disagree with the idea that you have to hate your WS if you have the AP.

There is only one AP that I can seriously say I HATE. By hate, I mean I hope nothing but the most awful of things for her. That being said, I don't see her, think about her, talk to her, talk about her, etc... She is not part of my life anymore. She is the woman who my daughter's dad (one of the women) that he slept with. The reasons I hate her and not the others I can go into on a later date, but suffice to say that I have absolutely zero empathy for this individual. I don't even consider her a human being as a matter of fact.

Why am I allowed to feel this way about her, while I have forgiven my daughter's dad and actually have a fairly pleasant relationship with him? Well it's simple:

1) he was sorry. He showed remorse for his actions and apologized to me. She did no such thing.

2) I know him as a person without the cheating element. I had a relationship with him before he cheated. I have a relationship (not together, but a co-parenting relationship) with him well after the cheating. To me, he is more than just a cheater, because I have seen him in other contexts. I have never had an experience with this woman in a different context. I'm sure that to other people, she is a daughter, a sister, a friend, whatever. But to me, she is ONLY a cheater. She is ONLY a woman who participated in the destruction of my family and then went a step further and harassed me and threatened to kill me and my child to the point where I had to get a restraining order. She could be a nun now, I don't care. That is the ONLY context and light I will ever see her in.

3) I am allowed to hate her. I am certainly allowed to hate my ex as well, for doing the same thing, but that is more difficult. I HAVE to have a relationship with him to raise our daughter. I HAVE to see him every other weekend. When my daughter graduates high school? He will be there. When she is getting married? He will be there. When my first grandchild is born? He will be sitting with me in the waiting room. I can hate him, but then I have to forever have this horrible person who I hate in my life. Or I can choose to move on, and not hate him.

Her? I can hate her all I want. We don't live in the same town and I have a restraining order. She literally cannot come within 500 feet of me or my child ever. Can I hate her? Sure. I can do whatever the heck I want, and it fine as long as that hate doesn't consume me. And it doesn't. For the most part, it sits in the background and doesn't cross my mind.

4) this is a further based on reason number three- it is easier to hate her and blame her than to blame him. And I say this- feel, do, think, and say WHATEVER YOU NEED TO TO DO in order to make your healing process and your life easier for you. For me, blaming her for more, even though logically that is unreasonable is easier. And you know what? That is okay.

Who in the world cares about the double standard? I certainly don't. If you want to hate your WS more, fine. If you want to be hypocritical at the expense of the trashy whore (what is the male equivalent to this?) OP, go for it.

Hate, and anger, are both normal emotions. The only thing you "shouldn't" do is stuff them. Hate on the OP all day long, I will help, if it helps you feel better.

I hate the "mow" otherwise known as "married other whore". I also am angry at my husband but I do think its easier to accept trying to save your marriage if you are more angry at the op than your spouse.

I think these people are also known as "homewreckers".

No, this is wrong - I am married

No, this is wrong - you are married

It is that simple.

Anything else is self indulgent crap.

I really still disagree with these concepts.

The OM and my wife are both equally responsible - but I'm not taking his ass to MC any more than I'm going to bust my wife's jaw because I'm angry at her. Yes, I acknowledge the double standard of men/women there and I don't hit women unless we're on the mat with the timer going, but even setting that aside - they're both equally responsible for their choices and violations of my person. I want to R with my wife, why on earth should I invest any kind of energy to *not hate* the OM?

After dday we are angry at the people who hurt us. It takes time and energy to exchange those emotions and that mistrust for positive and constructive forces in a relationship. I have not nor will I ever waste an ounce of my time or energy on giving a shit about the OM.

Punishments for a WS are not black and white. Justice is just another word for revenge and some people *do* want revenge on their WS as much as the OP. The struggle with R is to not go there - otherwise you can treat your spouse the same as the OP, by shutting them out and moving on with your life.

Hating and blaming the OP does not have to be an all or nothing event. It doesn't require elaborate vengeance schemes and a heavy handed distribution of karmic remonstrations. It can just be left at the default while you pay attention to more important things.

I didn't say a word about revenge.

I said, and I will add a bit here, if you are full of hate and vindictiveness to an AP, what would be a FITTING response to the person that directly betrayed you?

I said hate and blame away, the OW/OM certainly deserves it.

But I see so many people saying they want to destroy the OM/OW professionally, and don't get me wrong, I salivate over that idea, or beat the ever lovin' dogs*** out of them, and the WS gets.........counseling.

Not saying one should beat the crap out of their spouse. Violence is NEVER appropriate unless in self defense.

Anger and hatred are completely appropriate towards an OW/OM, unless you aren't going to hold your spouse to the same standards.

So again, nothing to do with "revenge" or saying you should dole out to the WS what you want to dole out to the OM/OW.

Just want to know, if you want to beat the s**t out of the OW/OM, or completely destroy their lives, then what does your spouse get?

After dday, I hated both my spouse and the OM. Years later, I don't forgive either of them. I just don't waste my time worrying about them. They are simply insignificant to me. But it made no sense to me to want to destroy the OM and treat my x-wife with kid gloves, although divorce was her fitting consequence.

So again, just so its clear, I fully support putting their portion of blame on the OM/OW and hating them. They deserve it. Just as long as you aren't treating cheating spouse, who thought nothing of us to cheat, with kid gloves, or slobbering all over them.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 9:13 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)]

Just want to know, if you want to beat the s**t out of the OW/OM, or completely destroy their lives, then what does your spouse get?

If the BH of FWH's MOW hates my FWH, wanted to beat the shit out of my FWH and destroy his career that is exactly what my FWH deserved from the BETRAYED HUSBAND. Not from me. Not if I want to reconcile.

Ok

Of course, for those of us in R, we care for our WS. We have a history with them. We are trying hard to regain the closeness that we previously had. This is why we often do and are willing to forgive our spouses and not the AP. This is what I am trying to do right now. I couldn't care less about the OW. Some terrible things have happened to her since the A. I am not happy about them, but I don't feel bad for her. She's taken up with yet another taken man. She's a whore. I don't care. She will get hers.

But, I still hold my husband more responsible for hurting me then her. He chose to cheat. I have told him that as much as I hate her, he is the one I blame. It's just that the hatred I have for him doing this and our history together averages out to more effort on my part for him.

I still don't know if my effort for him is even worth it. Time will tell.

I hate and blame both XH and OW equally. She was my friend, played with my kids, visited my home, and knew he was married. She's not off the hook.

Josephine, That makes complete sense. I'm not saying anyone should hate their WS or be perpetually angry at them if they are in recovery mode or recovered.

And if in this mode, its perfectly understandable to still hate or be angry at the OW/OM. I would be.

But if I were to be recovering with a wife/partner, I wouldn't waste any time trying to get the OM fired, or beat the crap out of him. He holds his part of responsibility in what he and my x-wife did to me, but no more than x-wife herself. If I were to have moved on with her, then I simply would pay the OM no mind.

I hope things are working out for you and H

RockyMtn: Believe me, I am not deflecting the blame onto her in order to show my fWH in good light. I blame them 50/50. I am merely stating who started it. She did. I know for fact-have seen the beginning through texts on phone bill (with the aide of her current boss-who also went after my fWH). I don't take any less blame off of my fWH because she started it. I just believe he would not of had an A without her throwing herself at him. (Also verified via her on phone)

Some people may blame them more and believe them to be "evil" if there is proof that the AP is a repeat offender and your WS is a one time offender. (in my case-the AP is a repeat EA offender with other men)But I don't blame her more.

She is very sorry. But, I still hate her. I agree with Stillgoing. It takes effort to not hate someone who has hurt you so much. She is not worth my effort at this time. I don't owe it to her to forgive her. I would rather spend energy on my H and M. I don't hate her to the point that it consumes my life.

I don't seek out revenge for her. I just wish her to outed to everyone around her. I already did that to my H. Several weeks after D-day, I burst that secret bubble and exposed the dirty laundry.

Everything I have said about her, I have said about my H to his face. He, himself has said and admitted the same thing. I owe it to R to hate my H less and with his help rebuild the M and love.

I owe nothing to a needy repeat EA home-wrecker.

Beyondbreaking: Good points, thank-you.

I really do think that hating something/someone- expends less energy than trying to see them as a decent human being. (As long as it does not consume you for revenge)

For me-wanting her to get KARMA is not the same as devoting all my time to seeking for revenge.

Again-as I said, there are times I pity her for having to destroy herself and others lives (including her boyfriend) just to get attention and validation all the time.

I do not hate her anymore. But I really cannot stand her or all that she stands for.

I do blame her....it took less than a month and she was sending pics and videos of her masturbating. What kinda of a woman does that?

She also told her husband that day sex was for hookers and affairs. How messed up do you have to be to think like that?

I didn't say a word about revenge.

No, I did. I don't need to revisit that.

I said, and I will add a bit here, if you are full of hate and vindictiveness to an AP, what would be a FITTING response to the person that directly betrayed you?

I said hate and blame away, the OW/OM certainly deserves it.

Yet you continue to push the idea that we should treat our spouses with the same attitude as the OP, like:

But I see so many people saying they want to destroy the OM/OW professionally, and don't get me wrong, I salivate over that idea, or beat the ever lovin' dogs*** out of them, and the WS gets.........counseling.

Not saying one should beat the crap out of their spouse. Violence is NEVER appropriate unless in self defense.

Anger and hatred are completely appropriate towards an OW/OM, unless you aren't going to hold your spouse to the same standards.

It's already been explained several times that standards are not always the same and why. It gets to be offensive on a certain level when this kind of thing is repeated because it is judgmental without giving any consideration to the other opinions and perspectives involved. "Just sayin" is never an abrogation of negativity in these statements.

So again, nothing to do with "revenge" or saying you should dole out to the WS what you want to dole out to the OM/OW.

Just want to know, if you want to beat the s**t out of the OW/OM, or completely destroy their lives, then what does your spouse get?

In R, we have transparency. No contact. We've done MC, she's seen a doctor, and a number of other healthy and appropriate relationship boundary-building exercises. If we were getting a D, then I would go NC with her and move on.

I am not trying to R with the OP so once again: I feel no compulsion whatsoever to try and repair anything there. I don't see the point in maintaining some kind of equal standard there. If someone else has an issue with my wifes behavior in years past then that's their axe to grind and will bump up against my life to deal with if ever it does. I'm not going to tell anyone to stop hating on my wife because she's my wife. It's not even my damn business what goes on in someone else's head in that respect.

After dday, I hated both my spouse and the OM. Years later, I don't forgive either of them. I just don't waste my time worrying about them. They are simply insignificant to me. But it made no sense to me to want to destroy the OM and treat my x-wife with kid gloves, although divorce was her fitting consequence.

So again, just so its clear, I fully support putting their portion of blame on the OM/OW and hating them. They deserve it. Just as long as you aren't treating cheating spouse, who thought nothing of us to cheat, with kid gloves, or slobbering all over them.

You know, that's fine. It makes no sense for you and I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. But stop telling me I'm wrong, because then I *will* get into why I'm right and I don't want to be more of an asshole about it than I already am. I have not treated her with kid gloves, have not slobbered over anything, and the false dichotomy there needs to be put to rest already.

I have no hate for either AP. I know it wasn't about them...they were just willing and convenient.

Of course,my WH cheated on me with 2 OM. Had they been OW,then yes,I admit I would feel differently. Why? Not sure. And Im not going to figure it out either,lol. I have enough o deal with without adding "what if" bullshit on top of it.

No...I have no hatred...but neither are my favorite people. I have no idea who the first AP was..I have a first name and a vague description of where he lives. but the 2nd AP...I know his name(he gave it to me in an email...dumbass). I check his facebook on occasion...he has been single for the last 3 years. Im waiting until he is "in a relationship." Im waiting until it looks like it might be a serious relationship. And then Im going to send his girlfriend a copy of all the emails he sent my WH..and a copy of all the pics he sent...and a copy of the emails exchanged between he and I...where he talks about the BJ in graphic detail..and gives his full name. The email address he used with my WH is the same one he has on his facebook. Why? Well,I think any woman who gets involved with him has a right to know he is bisexual...but pretending to be straight(I know this because of the emails). Nobody warned me..but I will warn her. Revenge? Maybe. They do say it's a dish best served cold.

I didn't read the thread, so I'm sure I'm about to repeat others. Gonna do it anyway, though!

I no longer have any horse in the relationship race, so my liking/hating XWH and the COW is not so I can re-attach or whatever. I feel contempt for both of them, which of course breeds dislike. ("Hate" is too strong a word, though it would have been accurate three years ago.) I similarly dislike others who are actively in affairs or who destroyed marriages to pick off one of its partners. They are actively and selfishly hurting others, and I don't find that particularly likable.

As for blame, I blame XWH and the COW equally. They were both willing to f^ck each other regardless of XWH's commitment to me and his 2- and 5-year-old children. The COW gets to carry the blame for her actions, just as XWH gets to carry the blame for his. That's just the way it works here in my head.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 11:28 AM, May 22nd (Wednesday)]

t/j confused615 ~ I have wondered how I would feel if my FWH cheated with an OM. I am not saying it would be easier, because I feel it must be a real mindfuck for you and anyone dealing with that. However, I feel I would be able to realize that it truly wasn't about me, because I just didn't have the right equipment at all.

I don't think 'hate' is a strong enough word. I hate erratic driver. I hate it when the people at the drive thru screw up your order. I hate getting up early. What I feel towards this other person is well beyond 'hate'.

Yet you continue to push the idea that we should treat our spouses with the same attitude as the OP

No, thats not what I'm saying. You aren't understanding.

I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to want to destroy someone who wasn't directly responsible to you, but responsible to be decent to you nonetheless, and treat the person who DIRECTLY screwed you over with kid gloves.

Again, its understandable that you would hate the OP. I don't see why you gloss over that.

But stop telling me I'm wrong

I didn't

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:43 PM, May 23rd (Thursday)]

I hated & blamed OW way more than XH for far too long. As I pulled my head out of my ass, I realized more and more A is XH's fault.

XH manipulated me for years and I was clueless. OW is dumb as a sack of rocks (also confirmed by those who know her).

XH was (still is) a big baby who is incapable of validating himself. That's what OW (and the OW she doesn't know about), drugs, booze, etc are for.

OW knowingly set out to destroy my M, take my H for her own, and assume my life. Now she has it, but it's way worse than when I had it.

XH cheats on her, looks 10 years older, is at least $35K in debt, has lost most of his friends, and went from being known as a good guy to ... what he really is.

I really truly feel like her getting him is the best revenge. I hope they get married, and she shits out his mongoloid brats.

I can't hate either one of them. They are both pathetic, and deserve no better than what they currently have. I pity them both, especially XH, b/c I remember a really righteous dude.

After reading all the posts here it boils down to 2 general types.

1) ws who were pursued relentlessly and caved in later, what the hell, I'll never get caught with flawless planning.

2) WS who chose to fall for the A due to easy pickings, external validation, instant appreciation, broken self, loose boundaries.

Correct me if I am wrong.