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Still having a hard time with calling the OP BS because I feel like all it will do it cause problems. I know the true timeline and I know the most significant details.

Hey Shockedman, I know that you are shocked and numb. Boy do I know what that is like!!

But I would like to gently ask you to reconsider outing the betrayal of your WW and POSAP to his BS.

You said that you had enough info. But having two sets of eyes on them will put a chill on the addicting fantasy of their nasty trysts. This will help you.

And wouldn't you have liked to have known what was going on in you own life?

Don't worry about starting trouble ...those two already did that in spades!

Keep ot simple, offer any evidence that you may have. And please don't tell your WW what your going to do. She is alien pod person right now...she will warn her POSAP and they will make you out to be a psycho madman.

Letting the BS know is the decent and right thing to do. Please consider it.

Stay strong my friend.

Shocked,

In your first post you talk about upcoming MC appointments.

What’s your goal with those appointments? Are you and your wife going there with the same intention?

It’s extremely common behavior in many confrontational situations to do something that forces the other party to make and take the “difficult” decisions. Your wife has for some period of time been talking about how she finds you lacking and not meeting her needs.

It’s a basic assumption here on SI that a WS decision to have an affair is ALWAYS based on something being lacking in the WS – NOT the BS. You could be the worst husband imaginable but that would never justify your WW decision to have an affair. Your wife could demand change, more attention, divorce or even an open marriage. You could respond to those demands and she then respond to your response… In a marriage people always end up having to discuss how they want things and what compromises they can and cannot accept. If your wife brought relevant issues to the table she could accept your reactions, demand change or divorce. Her decision to have her needs met by another man is about as logical as murdering someone because he has bad breath.

IF your wife is honest in her beliefs. IF it’s true that she and OM had a “special” connection. IF it’s true that OM really intended on leaving his wife (if I had a dime every time I heard that one…) then your WW is using MC as a tool to get out of the marriage.

Only since she wasn’t honest enough to tell you she wanted a divorce before she had the affair then chances are she won’t tell you she wants out if the MC doesn’t force the issue.

So… I encourage you to re-read my first post. Force the issue NOW. Remove each and every excuse your wife might make to remain in the marriage UNTILL she only has the key one left: She’s in the marriage because she WANTS to.

Worst case: You get the news sooner that this is an exit affair and she really wants out.

Best case: She comes to MC with true intent on fixing things.

Thanks guys. Trying my best. My PCP gave me some ambien, so at least I finally had a decent night sleep last night. But as I sit here typing, my whole body is tense. I think it is time for a run.

Found out some more news that helps us confirm some thoughts. Found out that the OP is a n ex-drug addict. He is now clean (from what we know). My W comes from a family of alcohol and drug abuse. In some ways I wonder if they are both so mentally F'ed up that that is a big part of their bond? Maybe they are looking to fix each other? Either way it is ridiculous and unacceptable.

I sent an email last night telling W that I except the fact that she is in love with another man (real or perceived) and not me, so it doesn't make sense for us to own assets and run a business together. I said,

"You were not holding onto our life, nor should you if you don’t feel like it. It has changed forever. You were making plans for your future, so now I am setting up a plan for my future. Its delusional to think we can own this house and business together in the future after what has happened in our relationship. This does not mean we have no hope for a future, but our future does not include our current home or business. That is the past. We all need to realize that the future is going to be a lot different no matter what the outcome. To prepare myself for the future I put together a plan of action:

1. I am meeting with an attorney next week to discuss our options in regards to our assets and to understand my rights and options.

2. I will be setting up an appointment next week to have our business valued. This will give us a clear picture of what our options are moving forward. I believe our options are the following:

- We can sell the business, it we can find an interested party.

- One partner could buy the other one out.

- We could dissolve it.

3. I will have a real estate agent give us an idea of our homes worth and market potential. I do not want to stay in this house. You also have the option to stay and buy me out."

This is also another statement I added, but now wonder if I should have left it so open ended.

"I still plan to continue on with marriage counseling if you want to and when you want to. I won’t press you on this, but my future is in my hands. When I pressed you for some reassurance, you couldn't give me any. Fair enough. But my life is too valuable to just leave in limbo until you decide to make a decision. I am making my own and that is why I put this plan together to make sure I am prepared."

Thoughts? Maybe I should at least set a date in my mind? 1 month from now and she would have had at least 5 IC sessions. I think that sounds like enough. At lest for me, but she is F'ed. But how long do I wait to start MC? I don't want to drag this out longer than needed. I fear that I will finally have my life going in the right direction and be content in my plan and MAYBE she will snap out of her delusion and recognize her reality and want to try with me. Then I will be very conflicted. At this point, I have to say, she is kind of making it easy for me. When your wife tells you she is in love with another man and not you, it makes decisions easier to make.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 6:25 AM, May 31st (Friday)]

While there is some emotional baggage in your email, on the whole, it is an excellent business negotiation communication. Good job in starting the job of getting on with your life. The business plan you have outlined in the email will enable you to move on and heal.

As BS's we are of course upset in situations where the AP's BS is still in the dark. I think some posters didn't realize that in Shockedman's case, the OM's BW discovered the affair and outed it. So, she knows.

Shocked,

In my case, OW and WH appeared to have a parallel FOOs. They are both adult children of alcoholics whose siblings struggle with drug abuse and mental illness.

OW told WH that I could never understand him like she did because I came from a loving, functional FOO. She claimed that she could take much better care of him than I could and that they had this "unbelievable connection" and other ridiculous crap.

But, she proceed to be totally selfish in the A. Now, WH remembers how she demanded attention and sex even when he had serious deadlines at work,, did not understand or care that he gets cluster headaches, and gave him guilt trips from the start. All her long emails were about her and her needs, her problems, her feelings. She didn't give a shit about WH's FOO or career or friends or children.

All the parallel FOO's mean is that these two are broken in similar ways, and good at deluding themselves together. WH is beyond grateful now that he married an emotionally healthy person, and that I was strong enough to stay. He feels like the A showed him how miserable and meaningless his life would have been if he had married someone like OW. His A was long, though, and OW showed her true colors early on. WH was suicidal by the end.

You're very smart to call in the experts: law, business, real estate. Be prepared in case your W's fog persists, her IC is an enabler, OM is good at hiding his lack of character, and/or W is too proud to admit that her fantasy is a facade.

Glad you are sleeping!

Sailorgirl. I am really happy you are here. Your insight has been great. Having someone that shares the same story has helped a lot. My wife, of course, freaked out about the letter. Although their was some emotional baggage involved (of course Im hurting), I think it makes complete sense and is logical and rational.

Of course W is thinking I am being vindictive and setting up a divorce plan. But as I expressed, I am not going to be delusional and pretend that our life will ever be the same. IF there is any chance for us to heal and move on together, it won't be in our current home and our current business. Running a business with someone is very difficult as it is and to have that added pressure makes no sense. She claims that "Many exes do it. They run businesses together" Of course I laughed at that. Maybe spouses that split amicably and it was both of their decisions. Not exes who suffered through betrayal and an affair. She is now in panic mode. Saying that I have no right to take way her home and her business and that obviously all I care about is money. So in denial. If I cared so much about money, then why I am willing to give up all my possessions and business? Because I want to? Of course not. She already gave up on it. But reality is, life has forever changed and I won't look back (accept in IC and MC). If we have any hope for a future, it will be in different places with different jobs. I am OK with that. It was hard to come to terms with that. She hasn't yet. She still wants to have her cake and eat it to. The bottom line is that it is my home and my business too. If I don't want to own these possessions with you, I have that choice. You can't make some do that. She is still trying hard to feel like she is in control of this situation and trying to manipulate me. She has gotten really good at it. I won't let her and it is driving her nuts. I told her on that last phone call that I do not want to speak to her again on the phone. Since I walked out on d-day we have not seen each other. I said we will only communicate via email for work related issues. I said that we both should continue IC and when the time is right, we talk in MC.

Just as I was about to submit, i got this email from W:

"In regard to your divorce plan, I don't agree with this and thought that we might move through this in a less typical way. But you are choosing typical. Go forward with your plan. Just know that I take this absolutely as you already made your decision. As requested, I will not contact you any longer through telephone. I will only e-mail. As for today, I now have to take your plan and figure out what I'm going to do with said plan."

Funny, right. I explicitly said I hadn't made a decision regarding our relationship. I did make decisions regarding our future and put a plan together. I didn't say I am filing for divorce. I didn't say I am selling our business tomorrow. I didn't say I am putting our house up for sale next week. I said I am making a plan. She is starting to realize that I am moving on with my life and can't handle it.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 10:15 AM, May 31st (Friday)]

Hey Shockedman, you last post is very positive and powerful. Good for you.

I guess I missed the first part of your posts regarding outing the AP to the BS.

Thanks for the info Sailorgirl!

She is now in panic mode. Saying that I have no right to take way her home and her business and that obviously all I care about is money.

Consequences Baby!

Stay strong and please protect your heart.

She is starting to realize that I am moving on with my life and can't handle it.

Take a step back for a moment. I don't necessarily think that is what is happening here. What is happening is more manipulation.

"In regard to your divorce plan, I don't agree with this and thought that we might move through this in a less typical way. But you are choosing typical. Go forward with your plan. Just know that I take this absolutely as you already made your decision. As requested, I will not contact you any longer through telephone. I will only e-mail. As for today, I now have to take your plan and figure out what I'm going to do with said plan."

Now she wants you to tell her "No, no, no! I don't really want a divorce!"

Its all a part of having to be in control. She wants to put you in a position where you are coming to her and asking her to return. She wants the entire thing rugswept so she can go on as usual.

If that doesn't work, she'll say, "But it was YOU who wanted the divorce. I wanted to work on our marriage."

I understand everyone is giving you a ton of advice here, but we've seen this all a thousand times. Sadly, it rarely changes.

Figure out what your personal must haves are in this relationship, then go from there.

Thanks everyone. Staying Strong. my response email:

You are entitled to feel that way. I explicitly said I hadn't made a decision regarding our relationship. You are focusing on everything but that. Our relationship and marriage is only one piece to the puzzle. I did make decisions regarding our current life and assets and put a plan together.

Shocked - I am really impressed with your ability to see through the emotions of the matter, and find the strength to put yourself first.

She is starting to feel the control slipping from her hands, and will most likely respond in very ugly ways.

You obviously are a very smart guy, and probably finding some sense of relief without having to deal with her crappy attitude toward you every moment of every day.

Many foggy WS's tend to stay in the fog, and take the A underground when found out. Based on her reactions I would bet my lunch that they have, and for that reason I would contact the AP's wife, as you two can help each other to keep the two of them away from one another.

If you are unsure if you want to R or D that is OK, and perfectly normal. keep up the great work.

Stay Strong!

Shockedman;

My biggest advice-

Don't focus on keeping your WS or winning them. Focus on the M when you start to ask yourself if you want this WS in your life. When you realize you deserve better. Focus on yourself and finding yourself until then.

I would look at the texts if she is willing to give up the password. Only if you think you may regret not looking at them someday. Once they are gone they are gone. And only if your wife wants R. I wish I had requested more.

Read "Not Just Friends" gives great insight on wives in the A. Usually, from what I recall they are well on their way of checking out of a M when they get to the A option for them. (This sounds like your wife)

She didn't have issues with you. They were issues with herself. She focused on everyone else around her in order to not face her own shortcomings. It is sick how she projected her own issues onto you during the A. She needs serious therapy.

I will give her this...she probably had problems with your lack of emotional involvement in many areas. It is not fair to hold you to her own emotional standards. She knew what you were like when she married you. But, she can't justify an A for that.

It may take up to a month or two for her to get out of the fog. If she is in a fog, and not already checked out.

Contact OM's W. You may not need details, but you will need her help to keep the A from going underground. Remember, all the nasty things that you think about the OM, the BW is thinking about your wife. She is selfish, broken, and a whole hell of a lot more. Especially if they have children. Then your W is a home wrecker to her, so be prepared for her to have some choice words to call your W.

Thank you all again for everything your saying. I have found so much strength through many of your words and advice. My wife is in some serious trouble and I do feel for her. To be fair she generally didn't act shitty to me during the A, but she did just threw me enough bones to keep me off her trail. One of the hardest things is realizing how much she manipulated me. Part of the reason I had issues questioning her about her suspicious activities is because I couldn't. She has a fear of being alone. She has a fear of driving alone to far places. She used this against me, by saying that she trying to "Reconnect with herself" and do things alone. So when she would say I am going out by myself to night to shop or go fishing or to go on a long distance shopping trip or whatever, I had no choice but to be supportive because it was under the illusion that she was working on herself.

Crazy this roller coaster of emotions. Yesterday I was sure I just wanted it to be over, divorce her and get on with my life. But today I have been incessantly reading Not Just Friends and it is really good. I think I realize now that I have to deal with this pain and anguish one way or another or it may damage or haunt me later in a new relationship or with W, if we choose to R. Making Rash decisions now could be a big mistake. I'm just going to keep reading for a bit. Anyone else care to comment that may have read this book. I have seen it recommended a lot.

Crazy this roller coaster of emotions. Yesterday I was sure I just wanted it to be over, divorce her and get on with my life. But today I have been incessantly reading Not Just Friends and it is really good. I think I realize now that I have to deal with this pain and anguish one way or another or it may damage or haunt me later in a new relationship or with W, if we choose to R. Making Rash decisions now could be a big mistake. I'm just going to keep reading for a bit. Anyone else care to comment that may have read this book. I have seen it recommended a lot.

Still concerned about the NC. WW "seems" to be coming out of the fog, but that is still not something she wants to do yet. Obviously if we have any shot at R, this has to happen first. Starting to think her words are meaningless, until her actions match. As someone else pointed out her tune is only changing because I told her I were seeing a lawyer. I am afraid the for still persists. She is still just trying to manipulate me.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 4:00 PM, June 2nd (Sunday)]

Shockedman,

What reason does WW give for refusing to send an NC letter?

Ask her to read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. It is short and readable.

If she won't do either of these things, she is not R material yet, or possibly at all.

Please don't make any major decision right now. I would stop telling her what you are doing. It just seems to be fueling a back & forth email game. She is not reading what you are truly saying just what she needs to justify her stance.

She changed her password on her cellphone account and I asked her about it. She said "I do still have the right to know my own passwords and have privacy" She also said "You really don't want to see the call or email logs. It will just hurt you" I already checked them and her cellphone carrier doesn't provide. I don't want to know all their intimate details anyway.

Pardon me but WTF!!!! No she gave up her right to privacy when she opened up your marriage to a 3rd party. I would & did put this as a dealbreaker. Give it up or give me up - on that point you should not negotiate.

It has to be just like with a toddler, set the punishment - say it - mean it - do it!!

I am so sorry you are here. Your story is just devastating to read. Many hugs to you and keep reading throughout the entire site.

My WH did the same thing when he first started seeing OW and they were mostly just flirtatious friends at that point. Eventually he would talk to me, and tell me basically I needed to "step it up" too, and I was neglecting him and then we would act all in love for a few days and he would then pull away again himself.

It was a trick to starting setting me up so he could justify that something was amiss in the marriage. (when it really wasn't) The proof to me, was when things would magically fall apart after a few days after a big "talk" and it wasn't me that would lose momentum...he would. Every single time. He would cleverly turn it around on me though. He would say things like "I sense both of us are having trouble getting along" when that wasn't true. It was all coming from him.

Spelljean: Yes, my WW wouldn't even really act lovey. Only once in a while. Just enough to keep me off her trail. She become impatient, angry, bitter. It was all an attempt to alienate me and demonize me so she could justify her A in her mind. Classic shit. The harder I tried to make things "Better" between us the more she pulled away. She was already gone at that point....